Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

Nqp15hhu

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I think an interesting question would be the roles reversed. Do English people feel like Ireland (as a whole) is a foreign country?

When the North erupted in 69/70 ministers & officials in the Wilson government admitted they had no clue about Ireland, Irish culture or Irish politics, and when the Heath government came to power in July 1970 it was very much the same attitude.

The biggest mistake the Wilson government made was sending troops to Ireland & leaving the Unionists in charge of them. And then when Labour came back to power in 74, during the UWC Strike he made the infamous "Spongers" speech, which to be fair he wasn't wrong, Unionists do sponge of the British state.

What an insufferably rude and insensitive post.

Nqp15hhu

theteal wrote: »

There's not a huge amount that I'd actually dislike, if I did I'd be gone tbh but since you asked.

In no particular order
- the vanity is a real thing. The effort that goes into hair, clothes, cars etc. is quite eye opening. This is moreso the males of the species too.
- politics. This place is such a Tory dead cert, I just cannot comprehend how. Not sure how the Eaton club represent the white van/blue collar average worker out here but I'm just a blow-in, what would I know?! I've been on the losing side of every vote since I've been here. the lack of PR doesn't sit right.

SW Essex is very picturesque with its rolling hills and estates, however, I have found the people there to be rather aloof.

Hamachi

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I could, at best, take or leave the Spanish. Found them rude by times.

I have got on much much more with the English like another poster has mentioned.

Don’t know about the Spanish being rude. You can’t generalize 47 million people.

I did find that post bizarre though. The Spanish must be one of the most dissimilar nationalities in Europe to the Irish; relatively little in common culturally.

As some said, the proof is in the pudding when traveling. Irish people almost by default gravitate towards the British and vice versa. After that, people tend to strike up friendships with Scandinavians and Dutch. The Spanish would be well down that list..

Nqp15hhu

Hamachi wrote: »

Don’t know about the Spanish being rude. You can’t generalize 47 million people.

I did find that post bizarre though. The Spanish must be one of the most dissimilar nationalities in Europe to the Irish; relatively little in common culturally.

As some said, the proof is in the pudding when traveling. Irish people almost by default gravitate towards the British and vice versa. After that, people tend to strike up friendships with Scandinavians and Dutch. The Spanish would be well down that list..

Hmmm, I don't know if I agree with that. It's more the Scots I gravitate to. As Graces7 went out of her way to do, most English I meet make a point of highlighting any differences and that we are not the same.

I think its more a case that the English have their own group.

Montage of Feck

About as foreign as another county.

Not only does England (and Wales and Scotland) feel like a foreign country (countries), even Northern Ireland does.

I find it strange to accidentally cross the border from Donegal into Fermanagh and meet Royal Mail vans on country roads, or drive a few minutes up the road from north Louth because someone has asked me to buy something in Sainsburys in Newry.

When the philosopher Wittgenstein lived in Dublin, he praised the cleverness of changing all the Irish signposts to being bilingual with Irish, because such seemingly small, nearly subconscious, mental inputs help to cast a new and separatist identity.

That's why in northern ireland, there's been more than the occasional outrage at local bilingual road signs. Those people know Wittgenstein was right.

4Ad

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Hmmm, I don't know if I agree with that. It's more the Scots I gravitate to. As Graces7 went out of her way to do, most English I meet make a point of highlighting any differences and that we are not the same.

I think its more a case that the English have their own group.

The English think they are superior and think they are better than everyone..not just the Irish !!
I was born there, but luckily only lived there for 8 years...
Lots of family still live there...

new92

Listening to Ralph Vaughan Williams and admiring the rolling hills in the Wiltshire-Somerset countryside. I realised how the country is free from the scourge of bungalow blight and other one off clutter.
It's like Ireland with planning discipline out there.

It feels foreign to me, yeah.

Nqp15hhu

4Ad wrote: »

The English think they are superior and think they are better than everyone..not just the Irish !!
I was born there, but luckily only lived there for 8 years...
Lots of family still live there...

Which is my point that I made earlier, that too much confidence can be a negative thing.

begbysback

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not only does England (and Wales and Scotland) feel like a foreign country (countries), even Northern Ireland does.

I find it strange to accidentally cross the border from Donegal into Fermanagh and meet Royal Mail vans on country roads, or drive a few minutes up the road from north Louth because someone has asked me to buy something in Sainsburys in Newry.

When the philosopher Wittgenstein lived in Dublin, he praised the cleverness of changing all the Irish signposts to being bilingual with Irish, because such seemingly small, nearly subconscious, mental inputs help to cast a new and separatist identity.

That's why in northern ireland, there's been more than the occasional outrage at local bilingual road signs. Those people know Wittgenstein was right.

Not sure about anyone else on here but I always read the English version of the signpost.

Nqp15hhu

Yes, I am not sure if its just Donegal or the whole south. There is certainly a lack of control in the planning department, they build houses all over:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.1913997,-6.9647588,3a,75y,344.53h,80.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb6eH2ox1QXtZXOk50Tl7dw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It reminds me of Caribbean islands or Portugal.

Not so much here:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.145491,-6.8082763,3a,75y,297.3h,83.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVT8ajcDgWAjzT-_xjz_vwg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Hamsterchops

Mollydog123 wrote: »

I walked a lot of the national trails in the North of the UK and found the people to be very friendly.

In which case you were probably in Scotland?

Nqp15hhu

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Hmmm, I don't know if I agree with that. It's more the Scots I gravitate to. As Graces7 went out of her way to do, most English I meet make a point of highlighting any differences and that we are not the same.

I think its more a case that the English have their own group.

So you being stuff up about NI and being a unionist when you meet people from GB?

Church on Tuesday

Hamachi wrote: »

Don’t know about the Spanish being rude. You can’t generalize 47 million people.

I did find that post bizarre though. The Spanish must be one of the most dissimilar nationalities in Europe to the Irish; relatively little in common culturally.

As some said, the proof is in the pudding when traveling. Irish people almost by default gravitate towards the British and vice versa. After that, people tend to strike up friendships with Scandinavians and Dutch. The Spanish would be well down that list..

True but I'm going from personal experience. Any amount of Irish will also have some negative experiences of English and vice versa.

Nqp15hhu

Deleted User wrote: »

So you being stuff up about NI and being a unionist when you meet people from GB?

What? I never talk about politics to English people or anyone in public actually. When I lived there I found few commented on my accent. So maybe they didn’t even notice.

But those who did made a point of separating themselves.

begbysback

begbysback wrote: »

Not sure about anyone else on here but I always read the English version of the signpost.

Oh yeah, so do I, but he meant that in this new republic with all of its British colonial symbols (architecture, monuments, bridges), the state was smart to change the road signs. They would have looked unusual and perhaps even a source of pride, to people who were used to the British-occupation signage. Our independence has now grown deeper roots but these symbols were important in the early decades.

Even if you take no heed of the Irish on the signs, you immediately notice the difference when you enter the north (even with their new bilingual signs). It isn't just the signage, but that's one of the factors that seem very innocuous on the surface, but can make another part of this tiny island feel strangely foreign.

dd973

Graces7 wrote: »

And as for Kerry! I heaved a great sigh of relief when I left....

Why was that? Genuinely curious.

siblers

Graces7 wrote: »

And as for Kerry! I heaved a great sigh of relief when I left....

You should have seen the celebrations we had when you finally left our beloved Kingdom

YFlyer

It is a foreign country. Chippy was right.

Junkyard Tom

Worzel Gummidge is to England as Father Ted is to Ireland.

The Golden Miller

Not really, but you'll always be reminded your Irish for the laugh or whatever other reason if your in England. Likewise an English person here. But in neither instance are you really perceived a foreign as say an Italian.

A better way of putting it is if your abroad in a quite Spanish or Italian town. You meet many people but when you run into the English couple they are "one of your own". You'll be there chatting with them all night. As with Welsh and Scottish. So not foreign in that sense.

So separate to my nationalist views on the north, I don't see the English, Welsh or Scottish as foreign in the way I would a Dutch person.

murpho999

Hamachi wrote: »

Don’t know about the Spanish being rude. You can’t generalize 47 million people.

I did find that post bizarre though. The Spanish must be one of the most dissimilar nationalities in Europe to the Irish; relatively little in common culturally.

As some said, the proof is in the pudding when traveling. Irish people almost by default gravitate towards the British and vice versa. After that, people tend to strike up friendships with Scandinavians and Dutch. The Spanish would be well down that list..

| wouldn't agree with this really. I don't think Irish people would gravitate towards them, it's just that the language easier and they'd probably meet whilst drinking.

Language is a major factor that inhibits behaviours and actions.

Whilst a lot of English are friendly, and often humorous I do find their outlook on the world (brexit being an example) to be infuriating and very different to Irish and then I'd find that Irish people are more like countries in Europe.

I definitely find England foreign when there and I don't agree with posters who say it's the same because of watching football or UK tv no more so that you become American if you watch American TV.

murpho999

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Not really, but you'll always be reminded your Irish for the laugh or whatever other reason if your in England. Likewise an English person here. But in neither instance are you really perceived a foreign as say an Italian.

A better way of putting it is if your abroad in a quite Spanish or Italian town. You meet many people but when you run into the English couple they are "one of your own". You'll be there chatting with them all night. As with Welsh and Scottish. So not foreign in that sense.

So separate to my nationalist views on the north, I don't see the English, Welsh or Scottish as foreign in the way I would a Dutch person.

Again I think this is down to language and culture as you can easily converse with a British person compared to a person who speaks English as a second language and assuming by "chatting all night" you're in a bar setting then that's a shared cultural habit that other countries wouldn't follow so most likely to happen with British people.
For me that would not make them "one of our own" and they would definitely be foreign to me. They just have completely different outlook on the world to Irish people in my opinion and different habits just as much as "foreign" Dutch person does.

The Golden Miller

murpho999 wrote: »

Again I think this is down to language and culture as you can easily converse with a British person compared to a person who speaks English as a second language and assuming by "chatting all night" you're in a bar setting then that's a shared cultural habit that other countries wouldn't follow so most likely to happen with British people.
For me that would not make them "one of our own" and they would definitely be foreign to me. They just have completely different outlook on the world to Irish people in my opinion and different habits just as much as "foreign" Dutch person does.

What do you mean "down to" culture and language. That's all there is that separates people outside ethnicity. If you know my posting history I'd be the first to argue the difference between the English and Irish, but in terms of being actually "foreign" to each other they simply aren't. Ffs, something like 60% of England, 90% of north England, come from some sort of Irish descent. How is that foreign?

Nqp15hhu

The Golden Miller wrote: »

What do you mean "down to" culture and language. That's all there is that separates people outside ethnicity. If you know my posting history I'd be the first to argue the difference between the English and Irish, but in terms of being actually "foreign" to each other they simply aren't. Ffs, something like 60% of England, 90% of north England, come from some sort of Irish descent. How is that foreign?

That’s grossly exaggerated. Most English do not have Irish ancestry. Where I lived an Irish person would be rare a hens teeth.

forgottenhills

Its easy to generalise and like many on here have said its important to differentiate between different regions in the UK, particularly the north/south divide. There are many things we share, but many differences such as funerals, washing the car every Sunday etc.

But here even within Ireland there are many cultural differences to observe, particularly if you look at the different behaviours in different settings, rural vs urban, tradesmen vs professionals etc.

One thing I always find quite amusing is how different communications are between professional people who often won't or can't speak their mind, and the much more direct communications that goes on in the construction or farming sector where people often don't have time to faff about. And from observations growing up in a mixed religious area there were even differences in communication styles and indeed lifestyles between religions, with Presbyterians being particularly direct in communication style in my experience! I sometimes amuse myself in a work or social setting by imitating a particular Presbyterian tradesman I used to know years ago who was a great man for getting straight to the point without too much verbal foreplay

Yyhhuuu

Mollydog123 wrote: »

I walked a lot of the national trails in the North of the UK and found the people to be very friendly. The main differences I noticed was the size of the fields, they were huge and as a result much less hedgerows and birds. Also the right to roam, some of the trails went through peoples front gardens and farmers fields and yards. Always found the farmers to be friendly. Couldn't imagine walking across some farmers yard in Ireland.

The right to roam is one serious drawback about Ireland v England. When I was in Hampstead in London you would see many people having picnics on the heath, I rarely saw this in Ireland. People in rural Ireland ( unless they own a farm) have far less amenities as regards walking through fields etc than in England. It's a real pity the Land is closed to the public.Even the London metropolis has far more parks with an abundance of trees and nature than some Irish cities. I somehow think the Irish may not be as in touch with nature than the English. There appears to be far more trees in England than I see in Ireland.

I visited Belfast a few times and I recall my first visit in around 2000 noting the red coloured tarmacadam on the Roads, the ugly black traffic lights etc which were so unlike the Republic. As one travels from Dublin into Northern Ireland you notice the lack of one-off rural housing which in my opinion has destroyed rural Ireland.

PommieBast

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I think an interesting question would be the roles reversed. Do English people feel like Ireland (as a whole) is a foreign country?

Spent some time in New Zealand with quite a few visits to various places in Asia before coming to Ireland in 2013, so by the time I got here my idea of "foreign" was a bit messed up.

Mollydog123

Hamsterchops wrote: »

In which case you were probably in Scotland?

Some parts all right. Hadrian's Wall is 100% North England. Stunning scenery and history by the way. Pennine Way 30% Scotland and rest North/mid UK. St Cuthbert's Way was 50/50(More stunning scenery and finishes on Holy Island which again is beautiful).

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

bubblypop wrote: »

A massive difference is that Irish people appear obsessed by the English, but the English are not even slightly obsessed by the Irish.
Ireland is just another country to them, not overly important, a neighbour.
And the Irish cannot understand why the English do not know or care about knowing the Irish!

To be fair, this is more a product of our shared history with the English than of some unrequited obsession we have with them due to some massively interesting facet of English culture.

We find it surprising, to put it mildly, their levels of ignorance of the indelible scars England has left on Ireland as an island, especially when you factor in the millions of people there who have Irish ancestry.