Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

ILoveYourVibes

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

but purely from the standpoint of life and culture.

.

I love the British. I love the way they put their NHS at the center of their Olympics. I love how multi cultural it is. I love the GOOD in the UK.

But are we different ..?

Yes. The perception of ourselves and our preception we have of the other.


British people look at downton abbey ...and go ..hmmm I could be one of those gentlemen. Look and the ladies in their lovely dresses!

Irish people go 'Look at them do they know what was goin on my my country while they are eatin their tiny sandwiches! At best I would get to be the maid! Sucking up to yer wan! or Worse i would dying in a ditch starvin in Ireland'

DONT DENY IT ...you think it too!

English women are depicted as 'ladies'. Irish woman are either nuns or fiesty harpies.





English men have been depicted as gentlemen sharply dressed james bond type or Mr Darcy.

Irish men are often depicted as psychos drunks or violent. Irish men are also depicted as treating women badly.

We are very mushy. Nostalgic in a warm way ..but NOT for the past ...whereas the English are very nostalgic for the past.

English people pidgeonhole others into social hierarchy. By accent or address or other stuff. WE are more tribal. Where are you from? means something else.

We are more humble about our culture and nationality. They are not. We also have a lot of loathing about our nationality. They do not. We have a complex relationship with our culture and language. They do not.

English people do NOT understand what it is like to have your culture stolen from you. Your language stolen from you. And then to HAVE to learn it ....and yet WHILE learning it be told by academics or EVEN language tourists ..you are not speaking it like a true Irish person. And at the same time you don't speak English like the English. The english do not feel alienated from their own culture.

English people feel nurtured by their culture and language. There is no complication. It's simple. They don't have any acedemics or even worse their colonial betters trying to own it.


Life in the UK to me seems more theatrical but less emotional.


We don't have this stiff upper lip thing but are stoic. We are emotional and have no issue with public displays of emotions. British people might joke instead.

Irish people and british people have a totally different idea about travel. For British people a gap year ..is being a tourist for a while. Irish people get to be tourists for 2 weeks tops. We have to work. We HAVE to live abroad. We HAVE to immigrate. British people don't get that at all. To them travel is a luxury not a hardship.

Conversation in English is brief and to the point. Its about the details over there and nothing more in Ireland it lasts longer.

We seem to know English culture and politics they don't know ours.


Death and grief of ordinary people is shared much more openly here. Whereas that only happens for people of notoriety in the UK. They wouldn't go to a neighbor's father's funeral but they would go to a monarch's.



We are anti establishment but PRO COMMUNITY. We hate our politicians but will provide health care for our neighbors and the next county over.

We spend money more ...wild and free with it we are! :pac: Feckless!

Oh and the term plastic bullets makes the irish shudder ...the english don't get that.

We never forget our history ...they don't remember theirs.

And often if we bring it up ..they perceive this as a personal attack ..its not ..i love british people ....

ILoveYourVibes

Although liverpudlians and Irish people ..we are brothers! I feel at home with them.

ILoveYourVibes

Hyperbollix wrote: »

A foreign land? Oh yes. I always marvel at University Challenge. You get these insanely well read 20 year olds attending the Oxbridge colleges who can answer questions on the most obscure / niche subject matter with utter confidence and mostly arrogance.... When it comes to geography, they will spit out answers to questions about the regions of Mongolia like they've lived there themselves and have direct experience.

But give them a question on their nearest neighbouring island and they will all flounder. It's actually comical to watch Paxman ask them something about Ireland which any Junior cert student would laugh at and see a whole team of geniuses scrabbling around to the point of almost saying things like "GUINNESS?.............er...............LEPRECHAUNS?"

If the cream of the British education system is THIS clueless about Ireland, it's really no wonder we are where we are.

Here Here!:)

HalloweenJack

I've never lived in England properly but worked there short-time and have a quite a few English friends.

The extent of the classism is what always shocks me and their relative ignorance when it comes to ourselves (though, that's magnified on our part because its such a big deal for us). They do have a drier sense of humour and are more stand-offish, though they loosen up the further north you are.

They are similar in a lot of ways but quite different in others. They are foreign. Irish people might find it easier to fit in or adapt to English society but it's still different.

Hamsterchops

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

England, yes & no.

Yes, because it's different, and no because it's similar in many ways. Subtle similarity & obvious difference if that makes sense

Personally speaking I'd find Wales, Scotland & NI more foreign than England, don't ask me why, I just think we have more in common with parts of England than ......

Don't like the rise of English Nationalism though.

A massive difference is that Irish people appear obsessed by the English, but the English are not even slightly obsessed by the Irish.
Ireland is just another country to them, not overly important, a neighbour.
And the Irish cannot understand why the English do not know or care about knowing the Irish!

Broad generalisation there, it depends also on what part of England and what background the person has.

The English have now become more obsessed with the EU than they ever accused Ireland of being with themselves.

fryup

not so much nowadays - mainly because Ireland has become multicultural since the dawn of the celtic tiger (thank god)

but back in the day when Ireland (the republic) was 99% white & catholic - yes England did feel like a foreign/different country seeing all the different ethnicity and races of people out & about, and also the liberal & open attitudes to sex and sexuality something which was pretty much taboo in ballygobackward Ireland back then

mariaalice

No its does not feel foreign to me at all, I have family in the UK so get to see a lot of ordinary life there are differences though.

Where I used to live a small city in the North of England the weekday evenings the place would be a ghost town.

In general everything is familiar but still you feel like an outsider.

Supermarkets closed @ 4pm on a Sunday which I found strange at first.

The pubs initally I found them to be grubby, uncared for places. However with time I began to really enjoy the rustic no-nonsense nature of them. Cosy and cheaper pints than Dublin.

One thing I found about the English is the ability to laugh at themselves. I find Irish people tend to be more socially upward looking and try to get one up on their neighbours, whereas a lot of English people I encountered were lacking in ambition and content to live a very modest lifestyle.

pgj2015

I was waiting for someone who was in a hospital last year in Ireland, I was parked in a car park. An oldish man forgot something in his car and came back for it. He says I just forgot my bag, then we started chatting, we chatted for around 2 hours, I never met him before. I would be a talker and this guy was as well, he would tell me a story then I would tell him one. would that kind of thing ever happen in England with 2 English strangers? I think it is great that it happens here, what is the point in being so standoffish with people and only talking to someone you know. I have often had chats like that with people especially on trains and busses but that is dying out now which is a pity.

Graces7

flazio wrote: »

It's not just country or sea borders though. The way of life in Galway is quite different to that of Dublin for example. Heck the peoples Republic of Cork can feel like an alien experience.

And as for Kerry! I heaved a great sigh of relief when I left....

Graces7

pgj2015 wrote: »

I was waiting for someone who was in a hospital last year in Ireland, I was parked in a car park. An oldish man forgot something in his car and came back for it. He says I just forgot my bag, then we started chatting, we chatted for around 2 hours, I never met him before. I would be a talker and this guy was as well, he would tell me a story then I would tell him one. would that kind of thing ever happen in England with 2 English strangers? I think it is great that it happens here, what is the point in being so standoffish with people and only talking to someone you know. I have often had chats like that with people especially on trains and busses but that is dying out now which is a pity.

Yes! And furthermore we ( English) will then keep in touch with the " stranger" and we then become friends for life. I have met some amazing friends that way.

Here in ireland? I have found not. when I have eg moved house the folk I thought were friends when I was there? Out of sight, out of mind. Ships that pass in the night. Short memories

pgj2015

Graces7 wrote: »

Yes! And furthermore we ( English) will then keep in touch with the " stranger" and we then become friends for life. I have met some amazing friends that way.

Here in ireland? I have found not. when I have eg moved house the folk I thought were friends when I was there? Out of sight, out of mind. Ships that pass in the night. Short memories

My Aunt said she was in England pushing her niece in a pram, she said no one came up to her to talk to her or comment on the niece etc, she said that this was very different to Ireland. my Aunt lives in Ireland but her daughter lives in England.

RobMc59

We like to get supplies here every week but the sausages sell out very quickly!
https://www.liverpoolirishcentre.org/

fryup

pgj2015 wrote: »

I was waiting for someone who was in a hospital last year in Ireland, I was parked in a car park. An oldish man forgot something in his car and came back for it. He says I just forgot my bag, then we started chatting, we chatted for around 2 hours, I never met him before. I would be a talker and this guy was as well, he would tell me a story then I would tell him one. would that kind of thing ever happen in England with 2 English strangers? I think it is great that it happens here, what is the point in being so standoffish with people and only talking to someone you know. I have often had chats like that with people especially on trains and busses but that is dying out now which is a pity.

yes, it would

ulster

There's not a massive cultural shock going to England, but I'd definitely feel more aware of being Irish over there. So it's foreign no doubt.

I'd cross the border a lot. Around the border lands it doesn't feel like a different country. The closer I go to Belfast, it feels different.

fryup

ulster wrote: »

Around the border lands it doesn't feel like a different country. The closer I go to Belfast, it feels different.

we're talking >England<

not NI

cgcsb

Yes , completely different. Still felt more familiar than China though. I would say the young folks are generally good fun. It's a lot cleaner than Ireland, even rural areas in Ireland are full of litter. They know how to make decent television, I think it's probably the best country in the world as far as entertainment tv programming is concerned (factual programmes less so). There's a big difference between North and South. The North is more open to outsiders and the South can be quite hostile to other European people, but strangely quite accepting of people of different races (from their colonies), so long as they remain passive and humble and all that. There's a real chip on the shoulder for other developed countries that's for sure.

I would say the biggest cultural gap is, for lack of a better word, 'Absolutism'. In England everything is either right or wrong, good or bad, there are no caveats or mitigating circumstances. This allows them to form rather simplistic understanding of history. For them it's all 'good guys' (usually them) and bad guys (everyone else). The simple yes/no view on things means stereotypes are universal truth to them. Every person from X is X and that's that. This attitude is also applied to the media and justice system (trial by media is the de-facto system), there is no belief in remorse, atonement or reform. I guess this is something got to do with cultural protestantism, pre-destination and all that.

I found it overall negative in comparison to Ireland, some observations:
-Bars/night clubs are crap bar a few exceptions (almost all in London).
-Outside London, and maybe Manchester there is feck all activity on the streets after dark. A Saturday night in Athlone would see more people
buzzing around than Birmingham (second largest city). There's a subtle assumption that if you're out late you're up to no good.
-Mid range restaurants are crap, huge emphasis on 'value' and volume of portions but really nothing that you couldn't cook yourself, or buy off
the shelf. Fast food is dominated by multi national chains, very few unique joints with character.
-Service at bars and restaurants is dire. Barmen will pour one pint at a time and then take payment and move on to next customer, no panic at
all. They'll even wipe down counters and empty dishwashers while there's many customers waiting for service. I found this to be the same in
the NI.
-There's REAL poverty. When you get outside of London and the nicer towns/small cities in the south you'll find people really
unable to access food/shelter. Completely different to 'poverty' in Ireland, which basically means the government puts you into a hotel. In
Birmingham for example you'd often hear of people stepping in front of cars in the hope of getting some compensation money. Although the
way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if FFG have people doing that in the near future here also.
-Classism is a religion, no question about it. If you have a posh accent or went to a particular school you can more less do as you please, the
working class believe every single word they say. Ironically the working class will even vote for these people who make their lives a misery.
-Access to education is years behind Ireland. Adult illiteracy is a real thing, it exists in vast quantities (I would say it's under reported in official
figures that you find on wiki). It's not unusual to see someone struggling to work out what a sign says, mouthing the words as they read it.
This feeds into the ignorance of the outside world, which is also endemic.
-Knowledge of history is strictly limited to the second world war, and is patchy at that. And they genuinely believe that they 'won' that single
handedly.

Sunny Disposition

Lived there for years and like it very much, but of course it is foreign, there are loads of differences, good and bad.

Kaybaykwah

pgj2015 wrote: »

My Aunt said she was in England pushing her niece in a pram, she said no one came up to her to talk to her or comment on the niece etc, she said that this was very different to Ireland. my Aunt lives in Ireland but her daughter lives in England.

Well, the English are more reserved, and if the baby is not handsome, they might not want to make undue compliments?

fryup

Graces7 wrote: »

And as for Kerry! I heaved a great sigh of relief when I left....

elaborate.......

WesternZulu

Lived in Britain and it does feel like a foreign country which isn't surprising.

However, any time I've been to Northern Ireland I was surprised about how different it felt to here.

The towns and cities look closed to what you'd find in Britain. Even countryside looks different from less one off houses to far larger fields because of the typically bigger farms. The whole place looked and felt a lot different that what I expected. It just reinforces that there is a very particular Irish vernacular that isn't overtly obvious until you visit/live in the UK.

BalcombeSt4

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yep. Very much so

I worked over there for 2 years in London and the Luton area.

One thing I noticed is how run down and dilapidated a lot of the UK cities are. Wasn’t expecting that.

Yes you had new developments but lot of run down areas too. More so than ireland

Pubs and restaurants are quite different atmosphere wise to here

And yea social interactions with people are different - as you say they are more reserved more indirect and lot of fake polite small talk

Complaining about things is a National hobby.

The class system is very real over there. Less so here.

There’s more inequality over there for sure.

I met and made some great friends. Some really sound people who I’m still in touch with.

On other hand I also met plenty of idiots - the anti irish “banter” consists of stuff like saying po-ta-to repeatedly when some randomer hears an Irish accent.

Had a few “paddy” comments over the years too.

I’m well aware British people get some insults etc here too.

In general though they are more reserved and unfriendly compared to here but I always remind myself they have 10 times the population so can’t really be compared like with like

i was really surprised by that as well.

I was expecting the cities to be basically like Irish ones just a little nicer & maybe a little cleaner, to my horror they were a little less nicer, especially Manchester, red bricked ruins everywhere.

I was a little surprised at how drunk so many people got before football games at 3mp on a Saturday, especially street drinking.

cgcsb

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

i was really surprised by that as well.

I was expecting the cities to be basically like Irish ones just a little nicer & maybe a little cleaner, to my horror they were a little less nicer, especially Manchester, red bricked ruins everywhere.

I was a little surprised at how drunk so many people got before football games at 3mp on a Saturday, especially street drinking.

They are early birds. Guests I've had over from the UK are horrified that we're only heading out for the night at 10pm. That's their bed time.

BalcombeSt4

cgcsb wrote: »

Yes , completely different. Still felt more familiar than China though. I would say the young folks are generally good fun. It's a lot cleaner than Ireland, even rural areas in Ireland are full of litter. They know how to make decent television, I think it's probably the best country in the world as far as entertainment tv programming is concerned (factual programmes less so). There's a big difference between North and South. The North is more open to outsiders and the South can be quite hostile to other European people, but strangely quite accepting of people of different races (from their colonies), so long as they remain passive and humble and all that. There's a real chip on the shoulder for other developed countries that's for sure.

I would say the biggest cultural gap is, for lack of a better word, 'Absolutism'. In England everything is either right or wrong, good or bad, there are no caveats or mitigating circumstances. This allows them to form rather simplistic understanding of history. For them it's all 'good guys' (usually them) and bad guys (everyone else). The simple yes/no view on things means stereotypes are universal truth to them. Every person from X is X and that's that. This attitude is also applied to the media and justice system (trial by media is the de-facto system), there is no belief in remorse, atonement or reform. I guess this is something got to do with cultural protestantism, pre-destination and all that.

I found it overall negative in comparison to Ireland, some observations:
-Bars/night clubs are crap bar a few exceptions (almost all in London).
-Outside London, and maybe Manchester there is feck all activity on the streets after dark. A Saturday night in Athlone would see more people
buzzing around than Birmingham (second largest city). There's a subtle assumption that if you're out late you're up to no good.
-Mid range restaurants are crap, huge emphasis on 'value' and volume of portions but really nothing that you couldn't cook yourself, or buy off
the shelf. Fast food is dominated by multi national chains, very few unique joints with character.
-Service at bars and restaurants is dire. Barmen will pour one pint at a time and then take payment and move on to next customer, no panic at
all. They'll even wipe down counters and empty dishwashers while there's many customers waiting for service. I found this to be the same in
the NI.
-There's REAL poverty. When you get outside of London and the nicer towns/small cities in the south you'll find people really
unable to access food/shelter. Completely different to 'poverty' in Ireland, which basically means the government puts you into a hotel. In
Birmingham for example you'd often hear of people stepping in front of cars in the hope of getting some compensation money. Although the
way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if FFG have people doing that in the near future here also.
-Classism is a religion, no question about it. If you have a posh accent or went to a particular school you can more less do as you please, the
working class believe every single word they say. Ironically the working class will even vote for these people who make their lives a misery.
-Access to education is years behind Ireland. Adult illiteracy is a real thing, it exists in vast quantities (I would say it's under reported in official
figures that you find on wiki). It's not unusual to see someone struggling to work out what a sign says, mouthing the words as they read it.
This feeds into the ignorance of the outside world, which is also endemic.
-Knowledge of history is strictly limited to the second world war, and is patchy at that. And they genuinely believe that they 'won' that single
handedly.

Yea, but that's not something that's happens only in England.

The working class & low middle class in America have been voting against their interests for a long time.
Americans believe they won the second world war. Education systems are like that in most countries to propagate national myths & to instill obedience & discipline into the population which helps the working class make decisions against themselves when their older.

Graces7

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I've never lived in England properly but worked there short-time and have a quite a few English friends.

The extent of the classism is what always shocks me and their relative ignorance when it comes to ourselves (though, that's magnified on our part because its such a big deal for us). They do have a drier sense of humour and are more stand-offish, though they loosen up the further north you are.

They are similar in a lot of ways but quite different in others. They are foreign. Irish people might find it easier to fit in or adapt to English society but it's still different.

Of course we English are different; we are English not Irish. Nothing will ever change that. Nor should it.

Strumms

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Someone observed that if you are in any doubt that England is a foreign country, then go to a funeral.

When my grandmother died way back my English uncle, her son n law who came from here from London for it exclaimed, “ Jesus, if the funerals are this much fun I can’t wait for the weddings to start “

Graces7

dd973 wrote: »

You can't tar the whole of England with the same brush, living in Liverpool or Manchester is quite similar to living in Dublin in terms of the size of the city, proximity to Ireland and friendly people, many of whom are of Irish lineage, either recently or further removed, you probably see more Irish faces in Liverpool than O'Connell St these days.

The worst place I've lived is that outer swathe of London, that's neither Metropolitan London nor England, utterly soulless and gormless place with zero personality. Actual inner city Londoners are OK, the South East area at large though has a lot of horrible people in it, ranging from the sort of Sun reading right wing football thug you see in the stands at Chelsea or Tottenham to arrogant Lawrence Fox types who populate Middle Class London or places like Henley, Weybridge or Beaconsfield, very, very dull Times reading affluent Home Counties England.

Generally speaking, you could draw a line from the top of Essex over across to Milton Keynes/Oxford and down to Portsmouth, outside of that area English people are generally more like us and easier going, people in the North East of England are very affable and outgoing but it's a bit of a place apart with lots of poverty, deindustialisation and a big drinking culture.

Yorkshire folk tend to be a bit opinionated and tight fisted, Midlanders, especially Brummies, affable and self deprecating.

East Anglians and West Country people tend to be like the way they're stereotyped, rustic, easy going but to the point of making you think they're not all there!

The Cornish don't consider themselves English but a Celtic nation with it's own culture.

You mean like Kerry...Nah!