Does England feel like a foreign country to you?

Hamsterchops

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I think an interesting question would be the roles reversed. Do English people feel like Ireland (as a whole) is a foreign country?.

Foreign No, slightly different to England Yes, but only as much as Wales or Scotland would be.

We're all very close physically & culturally, swapping DNA since the last ice age...

RobMc59

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

That’s grossly exaggerated. Most English do not have Irish ancestry. Where I lived an Irish person would be rare a hens teeth.

You should have studied somewhere like Liverpool,known as the second capital of Ireland. One of the Cathedrals is known as 'Paddy's wigwam'.


https://images.app.goo.gl/cUhVWhHTVgr1yAKq8

cgcsb

Mollydog123 wrote: »

I walked a lot of the national trails in the North of the UK and found the people to be very friendly. The main differences I noticed was the size of the fields, they were huge and as a result much less hedgerows and birds. Also the right to roam, some of the trails went through peoples front gardens and farmers fields and yards. Always found the farmers to be friendly. Couldn't imagine walking across some farmers yard in Ireland.

Aren't English farmers still mostly renting their land from gentry?

cgcsb

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I could, at best, take or leave the Spanish. Found them rude by times.

I have got on much much more with the English like another poster has mentioned.

My experience is probably coloured by speaking Spanish, I don't find them route tbh. The English language is very heavy on polite phrases, that's more/less unique to the English language. I would say English people are a lot more polite than Irish even though we can speak English. For example Ireland's drivers behave extremely aggressive behind the wheel, it's near impossible to get out onto a busy main road because people won't let you cut in. In England they'll insist you go first.

BalcombeSt4

Aegir wrote: »

I am curious to know where in Ireland I find this wonderful place where the people don't look down on others, the streets are full of beautifully maintained architecture and there is an abundance of good value high quality food.

15 years living here and i have yet to find it.

Tir na nOg - It's a bit past Greystones

Anyway I wasn't having a go at British people.
Tony Benn is my political hero, I don't think any Irish politician was anywhere close to him when it came to exposing western hypocrisy. The best PM Britain never had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5e5byjOQU8

Who do we have, political pundit Fintan O'Toole,leader of the intellectual liberal left (whatever that is). Chomsky would eat him for brunch. As Joe Tiernan at him for breakfast.

cgcsb

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

The right to roam is one serious drawback about Ireland v England. When I was in Hampstead in London you would see many people having picnics on the heath, I rarely saw this in Ireland. People in rural Ireland ( unless they own a farm) have far less amenities as regards walking through fields etc than in England. It's a real pity the Land is closed to the public.Even the London metropolis has far more parks with an abundance of trees and nature than some Irish cities. I somehow think the Irish may not be as in touch with nature than the English. There appears to be far more trees in England than I see in Ireland.

I visited Belfast a few times and I recall my first visit in around 2000 noting the red coloured tarmacadam on the Roads, the ugly black traffic lights etc which were so unlike the Republic. As one travels from Dublin into Northern Ireland you notice the lack of one-off rural housing which in my opinion has destroyed rural Ireland.

The street furniture and layout in NI is like the ROI in the 90s. Red brick streets, pedestrian 'safety' barriers everywhere, the yellow push buttons at traffic lights , the black bins. in the ROI there's an emphasis on replacing these things every few years where as in NI they have more emphasis on maintenance, repair and making do. A more sustainable attitude really but certainly not 'trendy'.

Proferoxa

Hamachi wrote: »

Don’t know about the Spanish being rude. You can’t generalize 47 million people.

I did find that post bizarre though. The Spanish must be one of the most dissimilar nationalities in Europe to the Irish; relatively little in common culturally.

As some said, the proof is in the pudding when traveling. Irish people almost by default gravitate towards the British and vice versa. After that, people tend to strike up friendships with Scandinavians and Dutch. The Spanish would be well down that list..

Speaking as someone who spent a number of years living in (Northern) Spain, I completely disagree with this statement. The Irish and the Spanish are very very similar once you get past the language barrier. It was something that English friends of mine who lived there often commented on, particulary regarding the sense of humour. It just so happens that our grasp of foreign languages is abysmal and the Spanish are known for their poor standard of English so it's easy to overlook the similarties if you can't actually communicate.

FlubberJones

Nope, doesn't feel foreign, but I am Welsh and have been here 21 years... There are some areas that have been culturally overgrown and they definitely feel foreign but overall it is a great place to visit and hopefully return to.

cgcsb

Proferoxa wrote: »

Speaking as someone who spent a number of years living in (Northern) Spain, I completely disagree with this statement. The Irish and the Spanish are very very similar once you get past the language barrier. It was something that English friends of mine who lived there often commented on, particulary regarding the sense of humour. It just so happens that our grasp of foreign languages is abysmal and the Spanish are known for their poor standard of English so it's easy to overlook the similarties if you can't actually communicate.

That's exactly what I found. Other posters point to the climate and the food. They've clearly not been to Galicia, very similar to West Cork.

CelticRambler

cgcsb wrote: »

The English language is very heavy on polite phrases, that's more/less unique to the English language.

Run away outta that! French is just as heavily infused with politeness, and (speaking from personal experience) using the wrong conjugation at the wrong time can land you in a heap of discomfort!

After working in a professional environment in France for about a decade, I went (back) to work in England for a few weeks. What struck me most there, in England, was an almost complete absence of formality and politeness - no hello, no goodbye, clients addressing me by my first name from the off, ... and with the insincere "sorry" used a crazy number of times (mostly when the person wanted to be rude). I couldn't wait to get back to living and working with the French! :pac:

cgcsb

CelticRambler wrote: »

Run away outta that! French is just as heavily infused with politeness, and (speaking from personal experience) using the wrong conjugation at the wrong time can land you in a heap of discomfort!

After working in a professional environment in France for about a decade, I went (back) to work in England for a few weeks. What struck me most there, in England, was an almost complete absence of formality and politeness - no hello, no goodbye, clients addressing me by my first name from the off, ... and with the insincere "sorry" used a crazy number of times (mostly when the person wanted to be rude). I couldn't wait to get back to living and working with the French! :pac:

I'd forgotten about French, thankfully. French is like 2 languages depending on the who you're talking to.

JimmyVik

England definitely feels like a foreign country to me.
But Northern Ireland feels like an even more foreign country than England even.
Both are handy to get to though, so go to both places a lot.

RobMc59

JimmyVik wrote: »

England definitely feels like a foreign country to me.
But Northern Ireland feels like an even more foreign country than England even.
Both are handy to get to though, so go to both places a lot.

Northern Ireland felt just like being in England to me,architecture,people etc. Belfast is very similar to Glasgow or Liverpool imo.

CelticRambler

CelticRambler wrote: »

Run away outta that! French is just as heavily infused with politeness, and (speaking from personal experience) using the wrong conjugation at the wrong time can land you in a heap of discomfort!

After working in a professional environment in France for about a decade, I went (back) to work in England for a few weeks. What struck me most there, in England, was an almost complete absence of formality and politeness - no hello, no goodbye, clients addressing me by my first name from the off, ... and with the insincere "sorry" used a crazy number of times (mostly when the person wanted to be rude). I couldn't wait to get back to living and working with the French! :pac:

That's more to do with French managerial styles and workplace norms, bolstered by language rules which are considerably more formal than in the Anglosphere.
Always felt that when it came to social interactions, the French and english norms are indistinguishable. Very class-dependent, though; and quite rigid about class.

Proferoxa

cgcsb wrote: »

That's exactly what I found. Other posters point to the climate and the food. They've clearly not been to Galicia, very similar to West Cork.

Exactly. I lived in Asturias and people who visited me there often remarked how similar it was to Kerry! Even the regional cuisine is very meat and potato heavy. Of course you're going to think there's a world of difference between the two countries if you've only ever been on package holidays to the Costa del Sol, and the occasional weekend trip to Barcelona. I honestly found that there was more mutual understanding between myself and the locals than there was between myself and my English acquaintances/friends there. I often had to act as a sort of cultural interpreter between the two groups!

Hamachi

Proferoxa wrote: »

Speaking as someone who spent a number of years living in (Northern) Spain, I completely disagree with this statement. The Irish and the Spanish are very very similar once you get past the language barrier. It was something that English friends of mine who lived there often commented on, particulary regarding the sense of humour. It just so happens that our grasp of foreign languages is abysmal and the Spanish are known for their poor standard of English so it's easy to overlook the similarties if you can't actually communicate.

That's fair enough. I don't speak Spanish and haven't lived there for any length of time. I defer to your far greater experience here. Two points I will make from my perspective:


1. Did the travelling around the world thing for a year in my 20s, meeting internationals from all over the globe. The Irish almost invariably gravitated towards the British. After that, it was other northern / central Europeans, with a drinking culture. Now as you say, this may be due to ease of communication. In these scenarios, English is almost always the lingua franca. I never noticed any particular camaraderie between the Irish and the Spanish, or indeed any other southern Europeans. They would have been pretty far down the list of groups you would seek out for a bit of craic.


2. I work in an über international environment in Dublin. I guess ~50% of the staff are Irish. There is also a decent sprinkling of Spanish. Language is not a barrier to communication. When we head out for the night or do something social, the non-Irish who appear to enjoy hanging out with us are the Brits, Scandinavians, Dutch, and Germans. Frankly, the Spanish don't seem to have a lot of interest and tend to keep to themselves. That works both ways; the Irish staff aren't particularly interested in being around them either. If anything, the Spanish contingent are known for being whingy about the food and the weather, which doesn't exactly endear them to others. It's not a Latin thing either, because the Brazilians fit in very well and are generally popular with the local staff.


That's just my anecdotal experience, but I'm sure you know better from having lived there and really immersed yourself in the culture.

Kaybaykwah

Hamachi wrote: »

That's fair enough. I don't speak Spanish and haven't lived there for any length of time. I defer to your far greater experience here. Two points I will make from my perspective:


1. Did the travelling around the world thing for a year in my 20s, meeting internationals from all over the globe. The Irish almost invariably gravitated towards the British. After that, it was other northern / central Europeans, with a drinking culture. Now as you say, this may be due to ease of communication. In these scenarios, English is almost always the lingua franca. I never noticed any particular camaraderie between the Irish and the Spanish, or indeed any other southern Europeans. They would have been pretty far down the list of groups you would seek out for a bit of craic.


2. I work in an über international environment in Dublin. I guess ~50% of the staff are Irish. There is also a decent sprinkling of Spanish. Language is not a barrier to communication. When we head out for the night or do something social, the non-Irish who appear to enjoy hanging out with us are the Brits, Scandinavians, Dutch, and Germans. Frankly, the Spanish don't seem to have a lot of interest and tend to keep to themselves. That works both ways; the Irish staff aren't particularly interested in being around them either. If anything, the Spanish contingent are known for being whingy about the food and the weather, which doesn't exactly endear them to others. It's not a Latin thing either, because the Brazilians fit in very well and are generally popular with the local staff.


That's just my anecdotal experience, but I'm sure you know better from having lived there and really immersed yourself in the culture.

Yes, it's important you noted the anecdotal part, because, at the end if the day, it was the groups you hung around with you described.

Hamachi

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Yes, it's important you noted the anecdotal part, because, at the end if the day, it was the groups you hung around with you described.

For sure. This entire thread is replete with anecdotes though. It's almost impossible to quantify this stuff.

Nqp15hhu

RobMc59 wrote: »

You should have studied somewhere like Liverpool,known as the second capital of Ireland. One of the Cathedrals is known as 'Paddy's wigwam'.


https://images.app.goo.gl/cUhVWhHTVgr1yAKq8

I don’t want to live in an Irish community..

Gaoth Laidir

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I don’t want to live in an Irish community..

And yet you signed up to Boards.ie

Nqp15hhu

RobMc59 wrote: »

Northern Ireland felt just like being in England to me,architecture,people etc. Belfast is very similar to Glasgow or Liverpool imo.

I find mixed reactions to NI, some say it feels very different. It must depend on their political outlook and region that they live in.

The English South feels foreign to me.

Hamsterchops

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I find mixed reactions to NI, some say it feels very different. It must depend on their political outlook and region that they live in.

The English South feels foreign to me.

That is interesting because as you say maybe it's down to political outlook and the region you live in. I would feel much more at home in the south of England rather than the North, or NI for that matter, where I would feel totally alien & foreign.

gormdubhgorm

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I am not talking about the fact that it is a separate country, but purely from the standpoint of life and culture.

I am Northern Irish, so we are in the U.K. I lived in East Anglia and felt at times that the society was different, not from a stand point of infrastructure, food or day to day things but more the way of life in terms of cultural attitudes and communication.

The reservedness and inability to be direct and up front was something that I struggled to adapt to. I found it odd how the locals would avert eye contact, almost as if eye contact is a negative thing. I couldn’t get past the indirectness in communication; when communicating with English people I found it took a while to actually get down to the main point of what they were trying to say. Whilst here in Northern Ireland we just come out with it - (and I think that they did not like that approach).

If you visualise a politician being asked a question and not answering it. That is how the English communicate, with platitudes and indirectness... not actually getting to the point.

The very early closure of shops was also something that I found odd; 6pm shutters down everyday of the week, I’m not sure what it’s like in the south but here we would have shops open to 9pm at least a few days a week. To me closing that early is a very archaic practise, I know I struggled to get things done with such closing times, I’m not sure how working people are supposed to juggle such restrictive opening hours? Other things that stood out, would be the over reliance on public transport (most of my course mates at university had only started driving lessons, many were not intending to drive), small houses and large urban population.

So for me, yes certain aspects feel foreign, others don’t. Obviously for me it wouldn’t quite be the same as going to Spain etc.

My viewpoint is that Ireland is a lot, lot closer to English culture than many care to admit for obvious historical reasons.

My brother lives over there (London) and has become 'assimilated'. He has a bit of a Johnny Giles hybrid type accent at this stage. With added London - 'yeah yeah's' at the end of sentences. Ironically he started listening to Joe Duffy when he was over there - loves listening to it.

The bit that shocked me with London is the nodding of heads as a greeting to strangers was not the done thing. Besides that there was not much difference to Ireland if I am honest. Except I would not touch the Guinness over there.

I always find it fairly ironic that the die hard Unionists describe Ireland as 'Eire' to emphasise it's foreignness. An Irish person never does that.

The difference between Irish and English people of the same demographic is negligible. Especially the working class who would read the same tabloids, watch the same telly and support the same teams. Same language spoken and so on.

I know this will drive a lot of people mad but I would not view England as an out and out foreign country like the likes of China, Russia etc.
A lot of the same cultural norms are observed.

I suppose in summary I would view England as Ireland's big brother (whether people like it or not). Similar to a Germany v Austria. I know the dynamic is not exactly the same but it is close imo.

It was England who was the only crowd who ever successfully United Ireland. They set up Common Law Jurisprudence. Created the counties which we see today. Put in place the English language. England will always be intertwined with Ireland. It is not a true 'foreign country' the ties and history is too strong.

Nevermind all the superficial stuff and flag waving, there is damn all difference

Nqp15hhu

Hamsterchops wrote: »

That is interesting because as you say maybe it's down to political outlook and the region you live in. I would feel much more at home in the south of England rather than the North, or NI for that matter, where I would feel totally alien & foreign.

Why do you feel Northern Ireland is foreign?

Gaoth Laidir

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Why do you feel Northern Ireland is foreign?

Going by your Twitter posts, it seems that you see the South (R.O.I.) as being very foreign.

Gaoth Laidir

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

And yet you signed up to Boards.ie

Over the years there is always a few unionists joining boards, normally enjoy a bit of trolling the southerners. Most times it’s real unionists though.

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

Over the years there is always a few unionists joining boards, normally enjoy a bit of trolling the southerners. Most times it’s real unionists though.

I have to admit I signed up to a 'Love Ulster' site or (something like it) once for the craic.
It must have been back at the time of the O'Connell street riots which is how I heard of them.

I used a suitably sounding patriotic British username, and posed a simple question.

'Would you like to see NI as part of a British Football team?'

Sat back and laughed the the mental turmoil.

Loads of mentions of 'politics I love my wee country but....'
'It would be great to part of a British team but'
'My politics, my team etc'

The fact I still remember it, means I must have played it well.

If the Unionists want to do the same thing I did to rabid blinkered republicans. I say fair play to them.

CelticRambler

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It was England who was the only crowd who ever successfully United Ireland. They set up Common Law Jurisprudence. Created the counties which we see today. Put in place the English language. England will always be intertwined with Ireland. It is not a true 'foreign country' the ties and history is too strong.

While it depends on your definition of "successfully", if you check your history books, I think you'll find it was Norman England that forced the disparate tribes of Ireland together - so effectively that was the French. But of course, Ireland today isn't United, and funnily enough those in the far North East celebrate - as the most defining characteristic of their Britishness - their loyalty to the Dutch House of Orange.

Every so often on these kind of threads, it's claimed that Ireland's culture is overwhelmingly aligned with and/or derived from English culture. For the most part, that demonstrates a dismal lack of (a) how "continental" much of English culture is; and (b) how much of Irish culture is derived from and contributed to continental history and culture.

Even the "English" language owes about half of its vocabulary to French (or Latin), so England is only intertwined with Ireland to the same extent that throughout its history, England has been deeply intertwined with the rest of Western Europe.

Nqp15hhu

Deleted User wrote: »

Over the years there is always a few unionists joining boards, normally enjoy a bit of trolling the southerners. Most times it’s real unionists though.

What’s a real unionist? Who are you to dismiss my political views?

Nqp15hhu

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

What’s a real unionist? Who are you to dismiss my political views?

Well I suppose you could say a unionist is someone who loves the Union, or you could say a Unionist is just someone who hates something else. What's a real one?

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I don’t want to live in an Irish community..

Most of my friends are English. They'd all happily live in Ireland. You're different.