Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

dalyboy wrote: »

Utter farce alright. If it’s zero covid they’re after then they need to tell us , the public ,that’s their intention. (Give us time to legally make our exits out of this mess of a country)

What would “zero covid” look like in Ireland? Nightmare.
There’s no way that our crowd is competent to enact such a thing. It’d be the worst of both worlds. Country effectively locked down internally and SFA chance of leaving or entering. That’s what we would end up with.

Still 100% baffling this entire past few days.
It’s a complete waste of resources, effort , reputation destroying etc and for what? The north is freely accessible via a motorway and the back door is open (Belfast airport)

Dalyboy, given the choice, which would you prefer - quicker opening up internally within the country or less travel restrictions internationally?


I far prefer the former. That is why I support the restrictions. I want us to get back to normal here safely and I want businesses to be able to open up again. There are countries that have shown that this can be done. We can do it too. We just have a bit of a hump to get across first.



You say that you don't see the point in the vaccine now. I know that this has been going on for a long time but people are often forgetting about the things that really matter. Here is a post from over a year ago https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112858542&postcount=4337 . Why would you refuse a vaccine now, and put people close to you at risk, for some apparent spite of the government or NPHET or whomever.

dalyboy wrote: »

I’m not antivax btw. If I got offered it I’d take it however the government are going to have to give the public a lot of carrot soon (and open travel options for vaccinated) to get the real vaccine doubters on board.

The typical "Garda rats" dole life brigade won't be taking the vaccine. Anyone with a brain and basic education will of course take it. Unfortunately the people I mentioned above have neither of those things.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Dalyboy, given the choice, which would you prefer - quicker opening up internally within the country or less travel restrictions internationally?


I far prefer the former. That is why I support the restrictions. I want us to get back to normal here safely and I want businesses to be able to open up again. There are countries that have shown that this can be done. We can do it too. We just have a bit of a hump to get across first.



You say that you don't see the point in the vaccine now. I know that this has been going on for a long time but people are often forgetting about the things that really matter. Here is a post from over a year ago https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112858542&postcount=4337 . Why would you refuse a vaccine now, and put people close to you at risk, for some apparent spite of the government or NPHET or whomever.

Hi Donald.
I’ve no confidence in this government to correctly handle either option you’ve outlined at the start of your reply.

NZ for example closed their borders to inbound travellers but quickly reopened internally and removed their domestic restrictions when it was safe to do so.

How do you know our benchmark of “safe” will contain the same metric NZ applied?

NPHET have displayed outlier examples of conservative thinking in regards to what they see as safe which should act as a very clear red flag to your ideals (look no further than last summer with their wet pub closure stance and €9 pay to drink order when we were having 10-20 daily cases per day)

Would you be happy to accept maybe up to 2 years locked down internally on the promise of a safe reopening in Ireland? All the while we can’t leave the country ? Who pays for that ? What about people’s families abroad as we are very interlinked with our European countries (which NZ is not to the same extent)
What about our very reliant external euro economies (which again NZ do not rely on)

Secondarily zero covid will not work as we have a northern border and that leaves the concept utterly debunked.

Ps on the vaccine question . I’m not against vaccine myself even though I’m nowhere near the age cohort of health concern but the government need to recognise the vaccine status of a traveller entering into Ireland or they’ll derail the programs merit.

dalyboy wrote: »

Hi Donald.
I’ve no confidence in this government to correctly handle either option you’ve outlined at the start of your reply.

NZ for example closed their borders to inbound travellers but quickly reopened internally and removed their domestic restrictions when it was safe to do so.

How do you know our benchmark of “safe” will contain the same metric NZ applied?

NPHET have displayed outlier examples of conservative thinking in regards to what they see as safe which should act as a very clear red flag to your ideals (look no further than last summer with their wet pub closure stance and €9 pay to drink order when we were having 10-20 daily cases per day)

Would you be happy to accept maybe up to 2 years locked down internally on the promise of a safe reopening in Ireland? All the while we can’t leave the country ? Who pays for that ? What about people’s families abroad as we are very interlinked with our European countries (which NZ is not to the same extent)
What about our very reliant external euro economies (which again NZ do not rely on)

Secondarily zero covid will not work as we have a northern border and that leaves the concept utterly debunked.

Ps on the vaccine question . I’m not against vaccine myself even though I’m nowhere near the age cohort of health concern but the government need to recognise the vaccine status of a traveller entering into Ireland or they’ll derail the programs merit.

It isn't going to be two years locked down internally once we have everyone vaccinated. If we have everyone vaccinated and things under control here, then we might have to keep external restrictions there until other countries catch up. But we should be fine internally.


When we have people vaccinated, and those vaccines are effective against the strains here, then we are in a "pseudo NZ" status. At the minute we are far behind where we need to be on vaccines and so we need to put in other restrictions so that resources can be put in to vaccinations rather than trying to manage an overflowing hospital system. Our system did come close to capacity with a few weeks blip in January. We don't have capacity to take it here. That is a whole other issue but we have to start from where we are - not where we *should* be.


We also need to have our house in order so that other countries will allow us in whenever things open up. I haven't seen one person on here mention that Ireland, along the UK, were on Germany's list of risk areas due to VOCs here, until about 2 weeks ago. That meant that it would be illegal for a transport agency to carry someone from Ireland to Germany unless that person was either a German (or EU) citizen, or was a German resident. Obviously it did not affect Irish people as we have EU passports. People seem very concerned about migrant workers here. But an American person who was living and working in Dublin would not have been able to travel to their company's office in Berlin for example. And we aren't talking about mandatory quarantine - they would not be allowed to go full stop.



The issue is that people become apoplectic because they know about restrictions in Ireland, but they don't know about restrictions in other countries. Therefore they assume that there are none anywhere else.

hmmm wrote: »

No we are not. We still have a land-border with the UK, and a common travel area. We also have extensive commercial and social links with the rest of the EU, including an enormous migrant population who are working here.

There is no way for us to stop new variants getting into this country while this enormous gaping hole exists, and all we are doing is imposing huge costs on businesses and migrant workers to appease social media.

The big winner is Belfast airport, and it won't be long before the zero-Covid mob realise this and start demanding checkpoints on the border.

You are forgetting that the UK has similar quarantine restrictions for many countries.


This is a common tactic on these threads - the great oul' "whaddabout". But the person making it invariably fails to actually explain what they want. Are you pro- or anti- quarantine as a concept?



We're making you king/queen for the day.

1) Should we have quarantine at our own (air)ports
2) Should the UK have identical quarantine at their (air)ports
3) Should we put more resources into preventing people from using Belfast as a hypothetical back door?
4) Should we actively encourage people to travel via Belfast



In life, most things are never 100% guaranteed. Condoms are only 98% effective against STIs but you likely wouldn't advise someone not to bother wearing one with a stranger because they aren't 100% effective.


Seriously though, do you not remember the situation in January 2021 when we had the surge? Do you want that all the time? I am starting to think that a sizable proportion of posters just live in their basements for 50 weeks of the year and then escape to Santa Ponsa for the other two. If someone has that lifestyle, maybe they don't care about local restrictions. They may not have a life here in Ireland.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Dalyboy, given the choice, which would you prefer - quicker opening up internally within the country or less travel restrictions internationally?


I far prefer the former. That is why I support the restrictions. I want us to get back to normal here safely and I want businesses to be able to open up again. There are countries that have shown that this can be done. We can do it too. We just have a bit of a hump to get across first.



You say that you don't see the point in the vaccine now. I know that this has been going on for a long time but people are often forgetting about the things that really matter. Here is a post from over a year ago https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112858542&postcount=4337 . Why would you refuse a vaccine now, and put people close to you at risk, for some apparent spite of the government or NPHET or whomever.

Why does there have to be a choice? One is not dependent on the other. As far as I know that hasn't been suggested by anyone other than you and you're not a policymaker.

Travel restrictions will make absolutely no difference to numbers, so they should be dumped and we can start opening up carefully since numbers are falling, people are getting vaxxed and sit back and watch the pandemic come to a natural conclusion.

well all of this wouldnt be so insane if those measures would of been taken when they were needed first time, not after everything we went trough just to be told sure another 3 months give or take until we get vaccines out now. as issue seems to be theres not enough vaccines, and logistics required to administer them. as of now in almost 4 and a half months gov barely dented vulnerable public with most waiting for second jab, and another 3mill of population to finish it will be a miracle if its done come next year.


so while i couldnt give a toss for those needing to quarantine or countries on list, bigger questions arise as how long we can tank hospitality, travel industry, since way its approached now sure were already told having vaccine proves nothing and your still required tests and quarantine. So how much of that is driven by hysteria to do more damage in getting numbers down, and ignoring what will be the cost of all this to pay in the future.

It'd be nice to have this thread about actual travel too and future travel etc rather than two threads about MHQ and finger wagging constantly at even talking about travelling. The other obtusely titled thread would be far more suited for that imo.

Micky 32 wrote: »

I overheard on the radio in the background a TD ( can’t remember his name) talking about the MHQ. He was saying the quarantine was “ temporary “ and it’s reason was for us to get out of lockdown as safely and quickly as possible.

Yeah they're coming under alot of pressure already, MM already talking up the removal of MHQ today. It's as clear as day this is to make sure nothing impacts the vaccine programme over the next 2 months or so. Badly thought out way to go about things though.

"But there is every prospect that we can move beyond these measures if we go through April, get to the end of April and significantly more vaccines, and even more vaccines in May, so that is the context."

Corholio wrote: »

Unbelievably condescending to different viewpoints than your own but pretty much par for the course from your posts. There's posters I'd equally disagree with on here but they aren't anywhere near as childish.

I didn't mean to upset you. I wasn't specifically referring to you or any other individual poster. Apologies if it was a bit too close to the bone. It wasn't intended to be

It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to claim that foreign travel is not a risk still.
Precautionary principle would be to keep things as restricted as possible until the roll out is done.



Quote from article below.



'We are in a race against time to get global transmission rates low enough to prevent the emergence and spread of new variants. The danger is that variants will arise that can overcome the immunity conferred by vaccinations or prior infection.'

namloc1980 wrote: »

They are inextricably linked at the moment unfortunately. The only way out is the EU green cert. MHQ is a shambles.

A vaccine doesn't protect you against the super-Covid which evades vaccines. We are detaining/quarantining people who are fully vaccinated.

Until recently I was like you and assumed that we would have vaccine passports this year to facilitate EU travel, but the Irish Government appears to have gone down a different route entirely.

This has come as a surprise to a lot of us, not least I imagine the tourism and travel industry.

Emailed my local TDs involved with Government parties this afternoon to essentially vent frustration at the way things were handled around MHQ, fully vax travelers not having a process to bypass quarantine etc.

The local FF TD came back with a reply within a half an hour (tbh I didn't expect to even get one).

He came back with the below, some of which I didn't know regarding section 9 of the legislation,

"I share your concern about the impact of mandatory hotel quarantining and its effectiveness given the Common Travel Area and our shared border with the United Kingdom.

Mandatory Hotel Quarantine (MHQ) legislation was introduced on the back of strong advice from the public health experts on NPHET. I expect it will be in place for several months while the Covid-19 pandemic and the worldwide vaccination programme continue.

As we have seen with other public health measures - introduction can prove relatively easy with removal posing significant difficulties. During the legislative debate on the Health (Amendment) Act 2021 which underpins MHQ, I raised the necessity for a sunset clause to be included to ensure the measure must regularly come before the Dáil for review.

Section 9 of the Act ensures that the provisions related to MHQ may only be in operation during the 3-month period after the passing of the Act, with further 3-month extensions requiring a resolution of both Houses of the Oireachtas.

I am looking forward to examining the impact of MHQ when the matter comes before the Dáil in June. I will certainly have regard to the points you have made and I would welcome any further feedback or observations. "

Tazz T wrote: »

What risk? I take a much higher risk going to the supermarket every week.

No they're not dependent on each other. How are they?

What's anything got to do with israel? We're talking about ireland

Again, you're pulling irrelevant questions out of nowhere.

I repeat for you again, travel restrictions make negligible difference to numbers (regardless of the fact that air travel is down 98%, everyone needs PCRs and there's a ridiculously pointless MHQ in place).

Tazz, the risk that you take when you go to the supermarket is that you will contract a strain that are already here.


The risk that you take when you travel somewhere else is that you will bring in a strain that is not already here.



Those first risk is probably more likely to occur, but has far less potential implications on a macro level for society. The second risk may be less likely to occur (depending on where you are travelling in from) but has far more serious potential problems on the macro level.



I hope that you don't catch it at the supermarket or anywhere else. But if you do, the incremental damage to society is negligible. If you went abroad and brought back a new strain. the incremental damage to society could be catastrophic.

Tazz T wrote: »

Mental gymnastics? It's mental to think that putting a few countries on MHQ will stop any variant getting in. Even NZ/Australia haven't avoided variants. No one has and no one will. At 0.3% travel is one of the smallest contributors to spread. Check out some stats on the HSPC site to see significant causes of spread.

But you reduce it as much as you can Tazz. You can't formulate a public health policy on "there is no point doing anything because nothing is 100% effective".