Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

SusanC10

Ray Donovan wrote: »

This 100%. Id say you will be looking at 3 PCR tests at a minimum. Before you leave (you would need that to get into a host of countries anyway), before you arrive back (needed at the moment anyways), and a 3rd after you arrive back. Plus home quarantine until at least your third result comes back.

So 3 PCR tests equals €300 tax onto the cost of your holidays.

For a family of 4 approx €1,200 then.

Ray Donovan

SusanC10 wrote: »

For a family of 4 approx €1,200 then.

That would be my guess yes. Under 6’s possibly exempt.

namloc1980

PCR test tax will put an end to cheap foreign holidays for the foreseeable future.

stephenjmcd

Ray Donovan wrote: »

This 100%. Id say you will be looking at 3 PCR tests at a minimum. Before you leave (you would need that to get into a host of countries anyway), before you arrive back (needed at the moment anyways), and a 3rd after you arrive back. Plus home quarantine until at least your third result comes back.

So 3 PCR tests equals €300 tax onto the cost of your holidays.

Highly unlikely, the whole point of the green pass is to provide proof of 1 of, vaccinations, negative test or prior infection.

If your not vaccinated then negative test it is.

Within the framework of the digital green pass is the below,
"if a Member State continues to require holders of a Digital Green Certificate to quarantine or test, it must notify the Commission and all other Member States and explain the reasons for such measures."

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1181

Good look explaining 3 tests to the commission and other countries

namloc1980

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Highly unlikely, the whole point of the green pass is to provide proof of 1 of, vaccinations, negative test or prior infection.

If your not vaccinated then negative test it is.

Within the framework of the digital green pass is the below,
"if a Member State continues to require holders of a Digital Green Certificate to quarantine or test, it must notify the Commission and all other Member States and explain the reasons for such measures."

Good look explaining 3 tests to the commission and other countries

The commission can't stop a country introducing additional measures on top of the green certificate, the only requirement is that the country provide reasons.

Micky 32

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Highly unlikely, the whole point of the green pass is to provide proof of 1 of, vaccinations, negative test or prior infection.

If your not vaccinated then negative test it is.

Within the framework of the digital green pass is the below,
"if a Member State continues to require holders of a Digital Green Certificate to quarantine or test, it must notify the Commission and all other Member States and explain the reasons for such measures."

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1181

Good look explaining 3 tests to the commission and other countries

Yes i agree, if our country goes along with this i’d say in my opinion if you’re vaccinated you’re good to go. If not you’ll be tested. I think that’s the whole point of the pass.

Gael23

namloc1980 wrote: »

The commission can't stop a country introducing additional measures on top of the green certificate, the only requirement is that the country provide reasons.

Are variants that done exist a reason?

Kramer

Donald Trump wrote: »

I actually did a 2 week isolation in January. I didn't have to

A two week isolation from this thread wouldn't go amiss .

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

I won't be taking anything other than pfizer unless they are offering me some major benefits to vaccination (fear of death...........doesn't bother me, ive plenty of life insurance

You do realise you need to be dead, in order to benefit from life insurance.
It's one insurance no one would ever hope to need.

Anyway - as per the thread title "Travel Megathread".............anyone heading anywhere nice soon? Some good enough deals from Ryanair.
I quite fancy a break myself...........interested in others' experiences in sunnier climes.

:pac:.

namloc1980

Gael23 wrote: »

Are variants that done exist a reason?

Probably based on the MHQ shambles.

Ray Donovan

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Highly unlikely, the whole point of the green pass is to provide proof of 1 of, vaccinations, negative test or prior infection.

If your not vaccinated then negative test it is.

Within the framework of the digital green pass is the below,
"if a Member State continues to require holders of a Digital Green Certificate to quarantine or test, it must notify the Commission and all other Member States and explain the reasons for such measures."

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_1181

Good look explaining 3 tests to the commission and other countries

Good luck explaining MHQ for EU countries to the commission......oh wait a minute.

Lmkrnr

Hopefully the North expand flights to different destinations. I never thought id offer support for Arlene or Boris, but i am changing my mind big time.

hmmm

Klonker wrote: »

It'll very hard for the government to unwind this without it looking like a step down. If more research on the variants is done and we find the vaccines work just fine on them (which many experts believe already) will MHQ be cancelled straight away? Or will we keep it just incase a new variant comes along? The Government have backed themselves it an embarrassing corner here and it's going to be hard to come out of.

This sums it up for me. There is no exit strategy which makes sense if we are worried about "variants". There will always be new variants and worry that some may evade vaccines.

Are vaccination certs an exit strategy? No because even if you are vaccinated you may pick up a new variant on your trip abroad.

The government have gone into this without agreeing up front how they get out of it. I'm not surprised to read in the Journal today that this is mostly a FF initiative to look strong on Covid - they have always been very short-sighted.

SusanC10

Ray Donovan wrote: »

That would be my guess yes. Under 6’s possibly exempt.

If vaccination means no tests, then that would reduce the costs.

stephenjmcd

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Good luck explaining MHQ for EU countries to the commission......oh wait a minute.

Bit of a difference to be honest from now to then.

There's no green pass scheme etc now compared to in say 3 months time, majority of our population isn't vaccinated now etc.

I don't agree with MHQ but it's a non comparison from now to when the majority will be vaccinated I think.

Donald Trump

Del Griffith wrote: »

And why do you think it's only Ireland that sees the very slight possibility of a variant that does not exist yet coming into existence in the future that justifies cutting the country off from the world at the exact point that the rest of the EU is opening up?

Del, again, your ignorance of realities do not mean that that those realities are not factual. Given that this topic appears to cause you significance anguish, you might be well served by reading a little bit rather than working yourself up into a state. I am only telling you the facts in order to try to get you to calm yourself before you do yourself an injury.

Will you quarantine if you are a non-French-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to France? The answer is no.
Will you quarantine if you are a non-German-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Germany? The answer is no
Will you quarantine if you are a non-Spain-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Spain? The answer is no.
Will you quarantine if you are a non-Portugal-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Portugal for a holiday? The answer is no.

Why are the answers to the above questions "no"? Why are there no special explicit quarantine restrictions for travellers from the US? It is not that they are allowing them in. It is because they will not be allowed entry at all in the first instance.

Will you quarantine if you are a non-Ireland-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Ireland for a holiday? The answer is yes.
Ireland has less restrictions on US visitors than most of the continent. They are permitted to enter.


Israel which has been quoted many times on here is not allowing anyone else in except for its citizens. (Except for high level exceptions, just to be pedantic.). They are vaccinated over there, but are not allowing people to come in. Why do you think that might be?


Now, known variants do exist already, and some are designated as variants of concern. I can't tell whether you just don't know that, or whether you are going down the full blown covid-denier route. Germany has a list of countries that for high-risk areas. Transport carriers will be fined for carrying, essentially non German residents, from those areas to Germany.

The classification as a special risk area with a particularly high risk is made due to a
particularly high incidence for the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus in this area (high incidence area) or because certain variants of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus have occurred widely in this risk area (area of variant of concern).
The decisive factor for the classification of an area as an “area of variant of concern” due to the occurrence of a virus variant is the spread of a virus variant (mutation), which is not simultaneously widespread in Germany and from which it can be assumed that a special risk emanates (e.g. with regard to a suspected or proven higher transmissibility or other characteristics, which accelerate the spread of infection, increase the severity of the disease, or against which the effect of an immunity achieved through vaccination or through a passed infection is weakened).

So I'll ask you straight - given that you are clear that you do not believe that variants exist - Do you believe that SARS-Cov-2 itself exists?


The world is currently playing catch-up against the virus. We need restrictions now in order to catch up and get ahead of it. Those restrictions slow the virus, which means we can catch up more quickly and return to normal sooner. When we achieve that, it will be like the annual flu. The virus will change over time but it will be an inconvenience rather than a tragedy. If you want your jab for this year you just go and get the updated one when it suits.

hmmm

Donald Trump wrote: »

We need restrictions now in order to catch up and get ahead of it. Those restrictions slow the virus, which means we can catch up more quickly and return to normal sooner. When we achieve that, it will be like the annual flu. The virus will change over time but it will be an inconvenience rather than a tragedy. If you want your jab for this year you just go and get the updated one when it suits.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but can you point us towards where the government has said what the exit strategy is? You seem to think that we will "catch up" with the virus (not sure what this means btw, unless you mean near worldwide elimination).

There's plenty of people saying the concern is about variants which evade vaccines. There are no current variants which evade vaccines, so obviously they are worried about future variants.

I suspect we've just introduced a multi-year zero-Covid approach with little public or political scrutiny. Once we started adding close partner countries to the list someone should have had the good sense to ask what was going on.

fm

Taken from gov. ie

Regulations will also exempt transit passengers who do not leave the port or airport before travelling out of the State and who have a 'not detected' COVID-19 PCR test result, following a test taken within 72 hours of their arrival into Ireland.


Is this new?

MarkY91

The entire america's aside from central america + mexico is on the list now. Only a matter or time before they're all on the list too..

faceman

fm wrote: »

Taken from gov. ie

Regulations will also exempt transit passengers who do not leave the port or airport before travelling out of the State and who have a 'not detected' COVID-19 PCR test result, following a test taken within 72 hours of their arrival into Ireland.


Is this new?

Why would a transit passenger spend 3 days in Dublin airport?

naughtysmurf

naughtysmurf wrote: »

After sleeping on this & trying to make sense of yesterday’s announcement, making certain observations & putting on my optimism hat....

Observations

A very quiet FG on this, little to no serious pushback from Leo & Coveney especially on the addition of EU countries so what’s their angle, what are they getting in return?

They left EU countries with higher infection rates off the list, makes no sense & little to no serious pushback from the EU so what are the EU getting in return as I’m sure they have given us the nod on this?

A couple of ministers comment that it’s only temporary

Ryanair announced a new route out of SNN to Corfu this week, they’ve a sniff of something, plus I thought that they & EI have been very quiet lately, they’ve been given the nod too

Willingness to realise a cock up & remove Israel from the list is significant I think

So what I think may happen is that along with a big push on vaccine rollout & getting to 70% vaccinated with at least 1 jab by the end of June, the old & vulnerable will be fully protected, we will sign up to the European travel cert in June that was the EU’s price for their quiet & also the price Donnelly / FF had to pay to save a little face

MHQ that the government didn’t really want anyway but felt they needed to be seen to be doing something to appease a certain section goes away too for EU states but will stay for non EU countries in some form until at least the end of 2021 at least, the Americans / UK will be treated similar to EU states along with countries that are performing well like Israel, Australia & NZ for example

So optimistic me sees the return of non essential travel from July onwards under the EU Green Travel Cert rules

Doubt it,

What you write is logical.

However the way this is being brought in is illogical, so I doubt you’ll see a change in that in 3 months.

No vaccines are manufactured in Ireland. Many engineers etc need to travel to support their production, I’ve seen it first hand. You are now stopping these people do their job.

This is a return of Dev s Ireland, well there’s one hell of an economic shock coming.

Micky 32

Klonker wrote: »

That doesn't sound like a short term proposal to me.
It'll very hard for the government to unwind this without it looking like a step down.

This is exactly what the problem is going to be, even Varadkar said “ will be difficult to reverse”

Some may disagree with me but i fear many suitcases in Ireland will be gathering at least 3/4 inches of dust.

On a positive note the fact that they have lifted some countries ( namely Israel) and a few others off the list with a click of a finger could be a reason to be optimistic that if things improve in countries as they are vaccinated maybe they’ll gradually come off the list.

Donald Trump

hmmm wrote: »

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but can you point us towards where the government has said what the exit strategy is? You seem to think that we will "catch up" with the virus (not sure what this means btw).

There's plenty of people saying the concern is about variants which evade vaccines. There are no current variants which evade vaccines, so obviously they are worried about future variants.

I suspect we've just introduced a multi-year zero-Covid approach with little public or political scrutiny. Once we started adding close partner countries to the list someone should have had the good sense to ask what was going on.

We do not have everyone vaccinated yet. We probably have 10% administered. So if a new variant got in that the existing vaccine did not control, then we have a dilemma - do you go back to the start and redo the at-risk groups with a new vaccine or do we press ahead with the existing schedule? "Getting ahead" to me means that we are no longer playing catch-up on vaccines. That we will have the infrastructure and processes in place. So if a variant of concern does arise then, we just do it like the annual flu jab. Every other country will be in the same position hopefully too.



It has been shown that some of the vaccinations have been less effective against the variants. Some people who get vaccinated will still get seriously ill from "Covid19 original". It won't be many but it will be some. The variants of concern increase that number. The vaccines we have now will still protect most people, and those can be tweaked quite quickly too. We still have a few months of a backlog ahead of us

stephenjmcd

Micky 32 wrote: »

This is exactly what the problem is going to be, even Varadkar said “ will be difficult to reverse”

Some may disagree with me but i fear many suitcases in Ireland will be gathering at least 3/4 inches of dust.

On a positive note the fact that they have lifted some countries ( namely Israel) and a few others off the list with a click of a finger could be a reason to be optimistic that if things improve in countries as they are vaccinated maybe they’ll gradually come off the list.

I think Micky what's also not been highlighted from last night is that the HPSC has now been asked to make urgent recommendations to government on fully vaccinated people not having to quarantine in any form when coming into the country

SusanC10

I thought that I read that Cabinet were to discuss the issue of fully vaccinated people at last night's meeting but there doesn't seem to have been any change.

hmmm

Micky 32 wrote: »

Some may disagree with me but i fear many suitcases in Ireland will be gathering at least 3/4 inches of dust.

Also, a lot of people seem to think this is about tourism.

Two industries I know well will be impacted:
- Specialist manufacturing requires visits by customers and regulators to audit facilities and production. This could be visiting Irish facilities, or Irish engineers going overseas. I'm pretty sure none of them expected EU countries to go on the list - it's difficult to see how you do business with French & Italian customers now.
- Multinational IT requires large numbers of foreign workers. They now can't go home without giving up two weeks annual leave and several thousand euros. The clumsy implementation without recognising vaccination certs or tests will damage our FDI prospects.

fm

faceman wrote: »

Why would a transit passenger spend 3 days in Dublin airport?

I don't know,

Maybe it means you can do a test on arrival in Ireland if you only stopped over in a certain airport to get out of MHQ or do the test within 72 hrs so you end up doing 72hrs in MHQ until test results

namloc1980

SusanC10 wrote: »

I thought that I read that Cabinet were to discuss the issue of fully vaccinated people at last night's meeting but there doesn't seem to have been any change.

They deferred it to one of the many quango groups to look at. I think the HSPC this time.

fm

Mauritius is back on the list now, wasn't it removed or supposed to be removed? It has an infection rate of only 1 per 100k for 7 days but only. 2% of people vaccinated.

hmmm

Donald Trump wrote: »

We do not have everyone vaccinated yet. We probably have 10% administered. So if a new variant got in that the existing vaccine did not control, then we have a dilemma - do you go back to the start and redo the at-risk groups with a new vaccine or do we press ahead with the existing schedule?

That risk will always be with us, we have it with influenza now. We don't force people to quarantine in case they are carrying a new form of Flu - we could, but we know the economic and social impact is too great.

It has been shown that some of the vaccinations have been less effective against the variants. Some people who get vaccinated will still get seriously ill from "Covid19 original".

First line I agree with, second I don't. The vaccines are showing reduced effectiveness, but they are still providing protection against severe Covid. You may be more likely to get a headcold with some of these new variants, but that doesn't justify MHQ.

I've agreed with most lockdown measures so far (except stopping people going for a walk up a mountain ), but MHQ looks like a substantial over-reach with limited justification and no clear exit strategy.

Del Griffith

Donald Trump wrote: »

Del, again, your ignorance of realities do not mean that that those realities are not factual. Given that this topic appears to cause you significance anguish, you might be well served by reading a little bit rather than working yourself up into a state. I am only telling you the facts in order to try to get you to calm yourself before you do yourself an injury.

Will you quarantine if you are a non-French-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to France? The answer is no.
Will you quarantine if you are a non-German-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Germany? The answer is no
Will you quarantine if you are a non-Spain-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Spain? The answer is no.
Will you quarantine if you are a non-Portugal-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Portugal for a holiday? The answer is no.

Why are the answers to the above questions "no"? Why are there no special explicit quarantine restrictions for travellers from the US? It is not that they are allowing them in. It is because they will not be allowed entry at all in the first instance.

Will you quarantine if you are a non-Ireland-resident US visitor who really wants to travel to Ireland for a holiday? The answer is yes.
Ireland has less restrictions on US visitors than most of the continent. They are permitted to enter.


Israel which has been quoted many times on here is not allowing anyone else in except for its citizens. (Except for high level exceptions, just to be pedantic.). They are vaccinated over there, but are not allowing people to come in. Why do you think that might be?


Now, known variants do exist already, and some are designated as variants of concern. I can't tell whether you just don't know that, or whether you are going down the full blown covid-denier route. Germany has a list of countries that for high-risk areas. Transport carriers will be fined for carrying, essentially non German residents, from those areas to Germany.




So I'll ask you straight - given that you are clear that you do not believe that variants exist - Do you believe that SARS-Cov-2 itself exists?


The world is currently playing catch-up against the virus. We need restrictions now in order to catch up and get ahead of it. Those restrictions slow the virus, which means we can catch up more quickly and return to normal sooner. When we achieve that, it will be like the annual flu. The virus will change over time but it will be an inconvenience rather than a tragedy. If you want your jab for this year you just go and get the updated one when it suits.

You seem to have missed or skipped over an important part of the sentence you quoted from me. I'll put it in bold so you don't miss it again.

And why do you think it's only Ireland that sees the very slight possibility of a variant that does not exist yet coming into existence in the future that justifies cutting the country off from the world at the exact point that the rest of the EU is opening up?

We all know variants exist, I went into that in that in post which you also ignored to fly off on a pointless tangent again. As I pointed out, hotel prison is there for fear of variants that don't yet exist.

If you want to address the rest of my post I'll be happy to address your off topic rants.

Let me know..