Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 10:57AM

hmmm wrote: »

That risk will always be with us, we have it with influenza now. We don't force people to quarantine in case they are carrying a new form of Flu - we could, but we know the economic and social impact is too great.

First line I agree with, second I don't. The vaccines are showing reduced effectiveness, but they are still providing protection against severe Covid. You may be more likely to get a headcold with some of these new variants, but that doesn't justify MHQ.

I've agreed with most lockdown measures so far (except stopping people going for a walk up a mountain ), but MHQ looks like a substantial over-reach with limited justification and no clear exit strategy.

For "Covid Original" you can go to 2 minutes of the below from last November. Dr. Anthony Fauci is giving a press conference where he talks about how great the vaccines are. For the pfizer vaccine, the results of the clinical trial were that there were only 10 cases of serious disease - one of which was in the vaccinated group and one in the placebo group. A very successful trial. I am not saying otherwise. Just saying that it was not 100%. Most things are not.

We should be proactive and put in the MHQ for a few months. Rather than looking back this time next year and regretting missing our chance to do it when we could have. The same as how last May we looked back to Cheltenham and the Italy rugby match visitors from March and realised how stupid it was that they were let go ahead.

We can clear the backlog and get back to normality locally.

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 11:05AM

Del Griffith wrote: »

You seem to have missed or skipped over an important part of the sentence you quoted from me. I'll put it in bold so you don't miss it again.

We all know variants exist, I went into that in that in post which you also ignored to fly off on a pointless tangent again. As I pointed out, hotel prison is there for fear of variants that don't yet exist.

If you want to address the rest of my post I'll be happy to address your off topic rants.

Let me know..

You appear to be very confused. You are still trying to claim that the variants do not exist. Have a read of this link (which I posted before) and then come back to me

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/variant-surveillance/variant-info.html#Concern

It is very difficult to respond to someone when you have presented them with facts but they stick their fingers in their ears singing "nah nah nah I can't hear you". That is effectively what you are doing.

I also posted a quote from German government documents about their list for variants of concern. They have some countries in that category, and some countries that are not on that category. Do you think that there is no justification for those categorisations? Perhaps you think NPHET are putting them up to it? And NPHET forced the US CDC to post those links?

The ball is in your court now. You are free to provide evidence to say why, for example, the US CDC are wrong in thinking that VOCs exist. You may have read a post from ranting about it from their basement on Facebook but I'd prefer something a little more scientific if you have it. Thanks

(As for whatever you bolded, that is anyway incorrect. As I pointed out to you, using the example of the US visitor, Ireland with new added MHQ is still less restrictive to third countries than most of the continent. You want us to be "open" like the continent? So we should do away with MHQ and instead completely ban them from entry? How does your brain absorb that information and conclude that they are more "open"? That kind of thought process is fascinating to me. It is kind of like you make up your mind first, then you go back to the start, but you don't bother trying to connect the start to the conclusion)

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 11:06AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Proactive would have been implementing this a year ago.

I'm not sure what the correct word for what we're doing is, but it's certainly not proactive.

There are variants of concern in other countries that have not been detected in high numbers here (or that have not been detected here at all).

Proactive is keeping them out before they get in. That would be the generally understood meaning of being proactive in this context.

scamalert · 10-04-2021 11:09AM

its convenient gov pushes BS about strains, we knew of different strains almost a year back, but even regular posters start to mention this as a threat, its like watching a snow ball effect.

after seeing yesterday new countries added, people fined for going to airports etc, its becoming more fear about being caught breaking BS restrictions then anything else.

what freaking logic does gov inspire when they make up crap like flying over red country at 10km one needs to be put into quarantine - this is some new level crack smoking logic.

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 11:19AM

scamalert wrote: »

what freaking logic does gov inspire when they make up crap like flying over red country at 10km one needs to be put into quarantine - this is some new level crack smoking logic.

Ironically, that is a made up statement.

I think that perhaps a lot of anger stems from people who blindly believe false rants they read elsewhere.

You do not have to quarantine because your flight flew over another country at "10km".

scamalert · 10-04-2021 11:32AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ironically, that is a made up statement.

I think that perhaps a lot of anger stems from people who blindly believe false rants they read elsewhere.

You do not have to quarantine because your flight flew over another country at "10km".

. Any passenger who has been in any of these Category 2 countries in the previous 14 days, even if only transiting through one of these countries and even if remaining airside, is legally required to quarantine at a designated facility (mandatory hotel quarantine). This applies even if the passenger receives a negative RT-PCR test result after arriving in the State.

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 11:38AM

scamalert wrote: »

. Any passenger who has been in any of these Category 2 countries in the previous 14 days, even if only transiting through one of these countries and even if remaining airside, is legally required to quarantine at a designated facility (mandatory hotel quarantine). This applies even if the passenger receives a negative RT-PCR test result after arriving in the State.

Ah, I see your confusion. When they say transiting through a country, they refer to your plane landing and you possibly changing to a new flight at the airport. They don't mean if your plane just flies over it without stopping.

faceman · 10-04-2021 11:39AM

hmmm wrote: »

Also, a lot of people seem to think this is about tourism.

Two industries I know well will be impacted:
- Specialist manufacturing requires visits by customers and regulators to audit facilities and production. This could be visiting Irish facilities, or Irish engineers going overseas. I'm pretty sure none of them expected EU countries to go on the list - it's difficult to see how you do business with French & Italian customers now.
- Multinational IT requires large numbers of foreign workers. They now can't go home without giving up two weeks annual leave and several thousand euros. The clumsy implementation without recognising vaccination certs or tests will damage our FDI prospects.

It’s not just the EU countries on the MHQ list that are impacted. Because the selection criteria isn’t transparent and riddled with holes, it will impact other EU nations who who have essential travel needs to Ireland.

Nermal · 10-04-2021 11:59AM

hmmm wrote: »

Also, a lot of people seem to think this is about tourism.

Two industries I know well will be impacted:
- Specialist manufacturing requires visits by customers and regulators to audit facilities and production. This could be visiting Irish facilities, or Irish engineers going overseas. I'm pretty sure none of them expected EU countries to go on the list - it's difficult to see how you do business with French & Italian customers now.
- Multinational IT requires large numbers of foreign workers. They now can't go home without giving up two weeks annual leave and several thousand euros. The clumsy implementation without recognising vaccination certs or tests will damage our FDI prospects.

Tourism, for some, is every bit as 'essential' (as if such a thing is amenable to government definition) as the examples you provided.

There's nothing more especially arbitrary, unreasonable or illogical to this latest initiative compared to those we've suffered before.

You've supported tyranny all along, 'up to a point', and now that point has been reached.

You should just have supported freedom all along. A teachable moment.

Corholio · 10-04-2021 12:02PM

faceman wrote: »

It’s not just the EU countries on the MHQ list that are impacted. Because the selection criteria isn’t transparent and riddled with holes, it will impact other EU nations who who have essential travel needs to Ireland.

People won't mention that though, they'll just be in favour of MHQ because of variants.....and that's it. No criteria to put forward as argument other than 'well it's their data', 'they are protecting the country', let them do what they want for a few months etc.

Mr. Karate · 10-04-2021 12:11PM

I wonder if this nonsense will have an affect on the vaccination process. With vaccinations under way and getting ramped in the coming days and weeks restrictions should be lifting. Instead they're creating more. I expect the "meaningful Summer" talk to "Meaningful Christmas" soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised if people start refusing to get vaccinated [especially in the age ranges where they're expected to pay for this nonsense] because the Govt seem hell bent on keeping lockdowns in place no matter what.

hmmm · 10-04-2021 12:22PM

faceman wrote: »

It’s not just the EU countries on the MHQ list that are impacted. Because the selection criteria isn’t transparent and riddled with holes, it will impact other EU nations who who have essential travel needs to Ireland.

FG may have to consider walking away from Government on this over the coming weeks.

If SF/FF/RTE want to kill off what is left of the economy for fear of some future super-Covid, let them run on that platform at the same time as the rest of the world is reopening. It will look ridiculous.

The byword of the current Government coalition has been incompetence when it comes to political decisions. How you manage to cut off access to and from some of your biggest trading partners and only now start to ask whether vaccinated people should have to quarantine is mind-blowing.

Small point - someone elsewhere was asking what happens to Irish Erasmus students who now face unexpected 2 grand bills. There will be more like this.

Mr. Karate · 10-04-2021 12:26PM

hmmm wrote: »

FG may have to consider walking away from Government on this over the coming weeks.

If SF/FF/RTE want to kill off what is left of the economy for fear of some future super-Covid, let them run on that platform at the same time as the rest of the world is reopening. It will look ridiculous.

The byword of the current Government coalition has been incompetence when it comes to political decisions. How you manage to cut off access to and from some of your biggest trading partners and only now start to ask whether vaccinated people should have to quarantine is mind-blowing.

Small point - someone elsewhere was asking what happens to Irish Erasmus students who now face unexpected 2 grand bills. There will be more like this.

If Leo wasn't already guaranteed to be Taoiseach again in Dec 2022 this **** show would have been gone by now. If a new election is called now he most likely won't get that guarantee again.

And Yes it would be interesting to see SF/Labour/PBP trying to run on we need lockdowns until Covid disappears and see how it works out for them.

ninebeanrows · 10-04-2021 12:45PM

The government is looking to get a quarantine hotel in Wexford set up by May

This isn’t ending anytime soon

What are we trying to achieve exactly

It just gets worse and worse

faceman · 10-04-2021 12:50PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

The government is looking to get a quarantine hotel in Wexford set up by May

This isn’t ending anytime soon

What are we trying to achieve exactly

It just gets worse and worse

Source?

10-04-2021 12:55PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

The government is looking to get a quarantine hotel in Wexford set up by May

This isn’t ending anytime soon

What are we trying to achieve exactly

It just gets worse and worse

Nothing will be taken off the list before the end of the summer. I just hope they don’t add the UK

ninebeanrows · 10-04-2021 12:55PM

faceman wrote: »

Source?

Quoted here

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0410/1209000-hotel-quarantine/

hmmm · 10-04-2021 01:01PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

Quoted here

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0410/1209000-hotel-quarantine/

Some great points made by the tour operator spokesperson there, repeats much of what is being said here. Customers are looking at making future bookings, and we can't tell them what is going to happen because there is no clear exit strategy - so they will look elsewhere.

Going ahead with this without deciding whether vaccinated people could enter the country without quarantining was a huge error. Resigning matter for the Minister for Tourism I would say.

Del Griffith · 10-04-2021 01:03PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

You appear to be very confused. You are still trying to claim that the variants do not exist. Have a read of this link (which I posted before) and then come back to me

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/variant-surveillance/variant-info.html#Concern

It is very difficult to respond to someone when you have presented them with facts but they stick their fingers in their ears singing "nah nah nah I can't hear you". That is effectively what you are doing.

I also posted a quote from German government documents about their list for variants of concern. They have some countries in that category, and some countries that are not on that category. Do you think that there is no justification for those categorisations? Perhaps you think NPHET are putting them up to it? And NPHET forced the US CDC to post those links?

The ball is in your court now. You are free to provide evidence to say why, for example, the US CDC are wrong in thinking that VOCs exist. You may have read a post from ranting about it from their basement on Facebook but I'd prefer something a little more scientific if you have it. Thanks

(As for whatever you bolded, that is anyway incorrect. As I pointed out to you, using the example of the US visitor, Ireland with new added MHQ is still less restrictive to third countries than most of the continent. You want us to be "open" like the continent? So we should do away with MHQ and instead completely ban them from entry? How does your brain absorb that information and conclude that they are more "open"? That kind of thought process is fascinating to me. It is kind of like you make up your mind first, then you go back to the start, but you don't bother trying to connect the start to the conclusion)

Hello, mcfly, hello??

Variants exist, this we know is true of every virus and is natural and expected (for the third time). A variant that justifies shutting off from the rest of the EU does not exist. Ireland is effectively shutting its borders for fear of a variant that does not exist yet.

Can't be any clearer.

And I know I skipped the rest of your post and only responded to your first line which off course was wrong yet again even after I bolded the important part for you. To be honest I didn't read the rest, I presume it's more off topic tangent rubbish based on your misunderstanding of what I said.

Let me know if you want me to get some crayons to draw you a picture, if you can just understand that first part of what I said, perhaps we can continue.

Acosta · 10-04-2021 01:07PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

The government is looking to get a quarantine hotel in Wexford set up by May

This isn’t ending anytime soon

What are we trying to achieve exactly

It just gets worse and worse

There's none in Cork either. They have been busing people from the airport all the way to Dublin on a daily basis.

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 01:13PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Hello, mcfly, hello??

Variants exist, this we know is true of every virus and is natural and expected (for the third time). A variant that justifies shutting off from the rest of the EU does not exist. Ireland is effectively shutting its borders for fear of a variant that does not exist yet.

Can't be any clearer.

And I know I skipped the rest of your post and only responded to your first line which off course was wrong yet again even after I bolded the important part for you. To be honest I didn't read the rest, I presume it's more off topic tangent rubbish based on your misunderstanding of what I said.

Let me know if you want me to get some crayons to draw you a picture, if you can just understand that first part of what I said, perhaps we can continue.

No, you're grand. Most of us tend not to base decisions off crayon drawings. If you find that it works for yourself, then I am not going to knock it.

You might find it educational to actually read what I posted. I may have used words that have too many letters, but I'm not going to go back to redo it for you. Someone there with you might be able to help. I will keep this one short so that you can make it to the end.

dalyboy · 10-04-2021 01:16PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

I wonder if this nonsense will have an affect on the vaccination process. With vaccinations under way and getting ramped in the coming days and weeks restrictions should be lifting. Instead they're creating more. I expect the "meaningful Summer" talk to "Meaningful Christmas" soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised if people start refusing to get vaccinated [especially in the age ranges where they're expected to pay for this nonsense] because the Govt seem hell bent on keeping lockdowns in place no matter what.

Listening to Radio one earlier aiden oroidein using blatant straw man arguments to support MHQ for ANY COUNTRY entering Ireland. Why ? .... to allow the “schools” reopen safely.

“A meaningful school reopening” if you will

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 01:16PM

ninebeanrows wrote: »

The government is looking to get a quarantine hotel in Wexford set up by May

This isn’t ending anytime soon

What are we trying to achieve exactly

It just gets worse and worse

Well that makes sense in fairness. If people could be landing there on a ferry from a quarantine location, it would make sense to have the quarantine facility close by rather than having to bring them up to Dublin.

hmmm · 10-04-2021 01:21PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Listening to Radio one earlier aiden oroidein using blatant straw man arguments to support MHQ for ANY COUNTRY entering Ireland. Why ? .... to allow the “schools” reopen safely.

This looks like Zero-Covid by the back door. The Government have almost overnight decided to wreck whatever chances the travel and tourism sector had to reopen later this year, along with causing multiple unknown cascading impacts on other key sectors (e.g. manufacturing and multinational IT).

If this wasn't the intention it is sheer incompetence.

Mr. Karate · 10-04-2021 01:22PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Listening to Radio one earlier aiden oroidein using blatant straw man arguments to support MHQ for ANY COUNTRY entering Ireland. Why ? .... to allow the “schools” reopen safely.

“A meaningful school reopening” if you will

Its a shame our media is full of propagandists instead of journalists. These clowns should be made to publicly defend any policy they intend to enact. If they cannot or will not then it should not be enacted.

Gael23 · 10-04-2021 01:34PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

I wonder if this nonsense will have an affect on the vaccination process. With vaccinations under way and getting ramped in the coming days and weeks restrictions should be lifting. Instead they're creating more. I expect the "meaningful Summer" talk to "Meaningful Christmas" soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised if people start refusing to get vaccinated [especially in the age ranges where they're expected to pay for this nonsense] because the Govt seem hell bent on keeping lockdowns in place no matter what.

This could be a huge own goal for the government and I don’t feel sorry for them.
If people see tougher and tougher restrictions coming they will say hey bother with vaccination

Donald Trump · 10-04-2021 01:41PM

Gael23 wrote: »

This could be a huge own goal for the government and I don’t feel sorry for them.
If people see tougher and tougher restrictions coming they will say hey bother with vaccination

If people don't want to get vaccinated then it will only really hurt themselves over the next few months as it won't affect things otherwise. It will just make the queue a little shorter for those at the end of it.

What it could affect at the end of the process would be that, in high enough numbers, the non-vaccinated could still act as reservoirs of covid and spread it around. But that will not have any effect until we get everyone else done. If Gael23 decides to refuse the vaccine tomorrow, and they give it to me instead, then there are still the same number of unvaccinated people at that point in time as if Gael32 had accepted it.

What might happen though, even before we hit 100% vaccination of all who are willing to accept it, is that Ireland and the EU in general could well go down something akin to the Israel route where EU citizens who can prove their vaccination status can skip mandatory hotel quarantine but that it remains in place for others.

10-04-2021 01:42PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what the benefits of getting jabbed actually is.

Life without catching the illness?

Why bother with the MMR or fly vaccine either

hmmm · 10-04-2021 01:42PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Exactly
Up to this point I was all in favour of getting the jab.
Can anyone explain to me what the benefits of getting jabbed actually is.
The fully vaccinated Israel woman with the 2 negative PCR took the biscuit for me.

You should still get vaccinated to protect yourself, your family and the wider community.

This MHQ for our closest neighbours nonsense will be dropped over the next few months, the only question is how much damage to the country will be done in the meantime. Vaccine passports will allow people to travel.

dalyboy · 10-04-2021 01:49PM

hmmm wrote: »

This looks like Zero-Covid by the back door. The Government have almost overnight decided to wreck whatever chances the travel and tourism sector had to reopen later this year, along with causing multiple unknown cascading impacts on other key sectors (e.g. manufacturing and multinational IT).

If this wasn't the intention it is sheer incompetence.

Utter farce alright. If it’s zero covid they’re after then they need to tell us , the public ,that’s their intention. (Give us time to legally make our exits out of this mess of a country)

What would “zero covid” look like in Ireland? Nightmare.
There’s no way that our crowd is competent to enact such a thing. It’d be the worst of both worlds. Country effectively locked down internally and SFA chance of leaving or entering. That’s what we would end up with.

Still 100% baffling this entire past few days.
It’s a complete waste of resources, effort , reputation destroying etc and for what? The north is freely accessible via a motorway and the back door is open (Belfast airport)

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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