Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Donald Trump

gansi wrote: »

‘Allowed to partake’ - It was voted upon.

Do you know what was actually voted upon?

Donald Trump

namloc1980 wrote: »

Does the vaccine not work without a cert to go along with it?

Well maybe they figure out that it might be better to have an official record of receiving the vaccination rather than asking people "Are you vaccinated or do you want to do a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks".


Because the odd person might tell a little porky pie.

namloc1980

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well maybe they figure out that it might be better to have an official record of receiving the vaccination rather than asking people "Are you vaccinated or do you want to do a hotel quarantine for 2 weeks".


Because the odd person might tell a little porky pie.

So they are not keeping records of who gets vaccines now is it? But of an oversight that.

TobyHolmes

Micky 32 wrote: »

Something has to give in this eventually, i can’t see Mr Biden being happy with Ireland if the government inflicted permanent quarantine on americans wanting to visit Ireland.

only US citzens can travel to US at moment so the US does not have much of an argument TBH re this point

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Do you know what was actually voted upon?

Yes I do.

Donald Trump

gansi wrote: »

Yes I do.

Can you give us a quick summary?

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Can you give us a quick summary?

Do your own reading. There are plenty of resources available.

Donald Trump

namloc1980 wrote: »

So they are not keeping records of who gets vaccines now is it? But of an oversight that.

Related to my post above - that is the reason why the voted to create a "green cert" for covid related things.


In general, there might be some GDPR, and other logistical, issues related to someone in Dublin sending some general health information about namloc1980 to random institutions, including various border control agencies, throughout the EU.

Donald Trump

gansi wrote: »

Do your own reading. There are plenty of resources available.

Well I will give you a summary. Because you did not take your own advice and do your own reading - despite raising the subject.


They voted to create a digital green cert. They did not vote on any absolute specific rights or obligations that would result from possessing this.



It is likely that the strongest obligation would be a relative one and not an absolute one - i.e. that any EU citizen with the cert must be treated equally by the country (possibly also equal to the citizens of individual country). So Ireland would have to apply the same rules to everyone who has the cert. But there was no vote on minimum absolute rights or obligations

mmclo

gansi wrote: »

Haven’t the eu. voted to bring in a green travel pass enabling those who test negative or are vaccinated or have recently recovered from covid to travel in the eu. without the need for any quarantine. So if this system is rolled out might it mean out current system would become obsolete for eu citizens.

This is not what it does, people are putting waaaay to much faith in this, it is a form of mutual recognition for those who want it but Governments can be stricter as long as they treat EU citizens the same as their own

Micky 32

TobyHolmes wrote: »

only US citzens can travel to US at moment so the US does not have much of an argument TBH re this point

The US are planning to open borders to europe mid May.

embraer170

I am repeating myself almost daily now.

Ireland had a full year to introduce border control and probably make a real difference to COVID rates (see the Christmas arrival situation). Yet for the whole of last year, there was no requirement to even have a negative COVID result when arriving in the country (I did so anyway to protecting the people I was planning to visit).

Today when a great number of the most vulnerable are vaccinated, when those travelling may have been vaccinated, and when arrivals must present a negative PCR result, mandatory hotel quarantine is introduced with almost no regard whatsoever to the purpose of travel?

It is a disaster for the Irish multinationals, for the Irish abroad with elderly parents, for the non-Irish living in Ireland with families back home, etc.

Other countries with strict home (!) quarantine requirements (such as Germany for what is defined as "virus mutation regions") take a practical approach and exempt transit trips through such regions. Ireland does the exact opposite.

Really depressing.

Santan

If this turns out to be a national disaster over the next year, which to be fair a lot of us believe it will be, what really kills me is that none of these clowns will be held accountable, sure they might not get reelected next time, but away they go with their life pension, no consequences for any of their inept decisions, running a country now like it's a game of football manager, not for a second will I ever believe that they are truly concerned about businesses or the owners or the workers especially in the hospitality sector, it really just sickens me

TobyHolmes

Micky 32 wrote: »

The US are planning to open borders to europe mid May.

but they havent yet. so the argument is moot until they do.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well I will give you a summary. Because you did not take your own advice and do your own reading - despite raising the subject.


They voted to create a digital green cert. They did not vote on any absolute specific rights or obligations that would result from possessing this.



It is likely that the strongest obligation would be a relative one and not an absolute one - i.e. that any EU citizen with the cert must be treated equally by the country (possibly also equal to the citizens of individual country). So Ireland would have to apply the same rules to everyone who has the cert. But there was no vote on minimum absolute rights or obligations

How do you know what I have or haven’t read. Just plain rudeness in what is otherwise a very civil and informative thread.

Donald Trump

embraer170 wrote: »

Other countries with strict home (!) quarantine requirements (such as Germany for what is defined as "virus mutation regions") take a practical approach and exempt transit trips through such regions. Ireland does the exact opposite.

As I have pointed out earlier a few time, Germany does not allow companies to transport people from those regions to Germany. It is just the case that German citizens/residents and EU citizens are exempted.



You will not be doing a MHQ in Germany if you are a yank and coming from one of those red list countries (which includes the US btw). Not because there is no quarantine there, but because you will be refused entry (and the airline would be fined for bringing you!)

bluelamp

hmmm wrote: »

There has been a very dramatic change in Government strategy, and the least they owe us is to admit this - particularly to industries which rely on foreign workers and travel/tourism. However I suspect that many in Government don't even realise what they have done.

I think the days are numbered for this government.

Widening divide between FF & FG, and Eamon Ryan has made the greens even more of a laughing stock.

Coveney & Donellys spat made it clear there is no communication between ministers. This wouldn't work the best of times, and it certainly won't work now.

The Taoiseach and Tanaiste are supposed to be running the country together, but all there seems to be is rivalry.

To top it off Michael Martin is in way over his head - and shows no strong leadership. The constant leaks from government ministers, and even NPHET, shows to me he can't keep a reign on the very people who are working for him.

He seems incapable of making tough decisions, and thinks the majority opinion of the population is represented by those whinging on twitter and the journal.

I think Fianna Fail will be back to the sidelines after this tbh.

beggars_bush

Santan wrote: »

If this turns out to be a national disaster over the next year, which to be fair a lot of us believe it will be, what really kills me is that none of these clowns will be held accountable, sure they might not get reelected next time, but away they go with their life pension, no consequences for any of their inept decisions, running a country now like it's a game of football manager, not for a second will I ever believe that they are truly concerned about businesses or the owners or the workers especially in the hospitality sector, it really just sickens me

They are doing their best imo.

People basically weren't actually isolating at home.
Its going on all the time across the country.

Golfman64

bluelamp wrote: »

I think the days are numbered for this government.

Widening divide between FF & FG, and Eamon Ryan has made the greens even more of a laughing stock.

Coveney & Donellys spat made it clear there is no communication between ministers. This wouldn't work the best of times, and it certainly won't work now.

The Taoiseach and Tanaiste are supposed to be running the country together, but all there seems to be is rivalry.

To top it off Michael Martin is in way over his head - and shows no strong leadership. The constant leaks from government ministers, and even NPHET, shows to me he can't keep a reign on the very people who are working for him.

He seems incapable of making tough decisions, and thinks the majority opinion of the population is represented by those whinging on twitter and the journal.

I think Fianna Fail will be back to the sidelines after this tbh.

Yep, opinion polls show a well deserved destruction of FF incoming at the next election. Good riddance.

It will be interesting to see what transpires.

Santan

beggars_bush wrote: »

They are doing their best imo.

People basically weren't actually isolating at home.
Its going on all the time across the country.

When you can't pay mortgages or rents or bills, will a bank or who ever accept that as an excuse, sorry but im doing my best, pretty sure you know the answer as well as I do

hmmm

Santan wrote: »

If this turns out to be a national disaster over the next year, which to be fair a lot of us believe it will be, what really kills me is that none of these clowns will be held accountable, sure they might not get reelected next time, but away they go with their life pension, no consequences for any of their inept decisions, running a country now like it's a game of football manager, not for a second will I ever believe that they are truly concerned about businesses or the owners or the workers especially in the hospitality sector, it really just sickens me

Fianna Fail own this one. They can first explain to the aviation industry and the tourism industry why they implemented this in such a cack-handed manner without bothering to even consider the implications for those industries. I've said it before, the Ministers for Tourism and Transport should resign.

After that they will have to explain to multinationals and Irish companies who can no longer attract foreign staff and whose French and Italian employees have gone home never to return what their "thinking" was.

A proper implementation of this would have been something along these lines:
1. Allow people with vaccinations to enter freely (or upon producing a clear test).
2. Never, ever, ever, put restrictions on our closest EU neighbours and key trading partners. No matter how often the Irish Times says this is unfair on other countries we barely do any business with.
3. Publish clear criteria for how countries get on "the list".
4. Give the aviation and tourism industries clear guidance as to when these provisions would be lifted, and under what circumstances so that they can communicate this to their customers and staff.
5. Assure immigrant workers in Ireland that they are valuable and we would do everything we could to make things less difficult for them. For a start, find a way to waive the fee when they visit their families.

Micky 32

TobyHolmes wrote: »

but they havent yet. so the argument is moot until they do.

Will ever stop talking bollox. If they open mid May and the US stays on the quarantine list( most likely will be) Biden won’t be happy.

Micky 32

Donald Trump wrote: »

Can you give us a quick summary?

What’s this, are we at school or something? Will you dish him out a 100 lines if he can’t answer.

Do us a favour and stop trying to purposely wind up other posters or the constant i’m right you’re wrong boloxogy.

bluelamp

Golfman64 wrote: »

Yep, opinion polls show a well deserved destruction of FF incoming at the next election. Good riddance.

It will be interesting to see what transpires.

The Donelly & Coveney situation was the most telling - during a global health situation, the minister for foreign affairs & the minister for health aren't communicating. Says it all really.

Donelly is very naieve going up against Coveney imo. He's a far better operator and far more respected. It won't pay off in the long run.

TobyHolmes

Micky 32 wrote: »

Will ever stop talking bollox. If they open mid May and the US stays on the quarantine list( most likely will be) Biden won’t be happy.

IF - we dont know. when we do know then its a point to be argued.


but how does this argument make sense to you? the us shuts their borders but then will get mad if we do?

Donald Trump

Micky 32 wrote: »

What’s this, are we at school or something? Will you dish him out a 100 lines if he can’t answer.

Do us a favour and stop trying to purposely wind up other posters or the constant i’m right you’re wrong boloxogy.

Well if they hadn't been so smartarse to me at the start, over something that was incorrect, I wouldn't have had to correct them. Poster then claimed to know what was voted on, when they did not.



There's enough "fake news" and people mistaking their emotion for reality on the thread already.

saabsaab

They did the right thing based on the information available to them

Golfman64

saabsaab wrote: »

They did the right thing based on the information available to them

Is that the information that all current vaccines are affective on all known variants but yet they decide not to exempt fully vaccinated travellers or countries with high levels of vaccination?

TobyHolmes

saabsaab wrote: »

They did the right thing based on the information available to them

same info available a year ago. the time to do it was then.
not a year later when every other country moving forward and we are going backwards.

Micky 32

TobyHolmes wrote: »

IF - we dont know. when we do know then its a point to be argued.


but how does this argument make sense to you? the us shuts their borders but then will get mad if we do?

Did you actually read my original post? It’s obvious you don’t understand it . My point was the quarantine with the USA won’t last if the USA open their borders to Ireland in mid May.