Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

facehugger99 · 09-04-2021 04:02PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Why would anyone bother? It'll all be over in a few months anyway. Who will remember or care in a year's time that the hairdressers weren't open till the beginning of June when it probably would have been safe to do it in the middle of May?

Remember that attitude when your taxes are raised and services cut.

Be sure and tell your kids all about it when they are asking you why they have to pay back billions of unnecessary debt.

ypres5 · 09-04-2021 04:16PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Remember that attitude when your taxes are raised and services cut.

Be sure and tell your kids all about it when they are asking you why they have to pay back billions of unnecessary debt.

It's such a chronic waste of money, think of all the infrastructural work that could've been done with all of it. We could have had our motorway from cork to limerick that would've been a game changer for cork and the Midwests economies.

Dublin could have gotten a sorely needed metro, I think it's one of the largest cities in europe not to have one and a whole assortment of other projects. It's just a shame

Boggles · 09-04-2021 04:23PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If every country was following Ireland’s approach since March 2020 it would be slightly more palatable, the problem is most of them ended lockdown 1 in May 2020 and entered lockdown 2 a week ago

None of that is actually true, at least for large parts of Europe.

But you are right in certain parts of Europe hospitals are filling up again and schools and businesses are being closed, an avoidable grim couple of months ahead. They didn't listen to their public health officials and scientists.

Fortunately for us our governance have acquiesced.

So the next couple of months for us will be the polar opposite.

I can't see how anyone could have a problem or put a negative spin on that TBH.

Stormyteacup · 09-04-2021 04:23PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Remember that attitude when your taxes are raised and services cut.

Be sure and tell your kids all about it when they are asking you why they have to pay back billions of unnecessary debt.

Yes bill is in the post. One to watch is how the multinationals will fare out over the medium term. The attraction for them is our location, educated workforce, language and low corporation taxes.

But with a minimum rate corporation tax in the pipeline, work from anywhere increasingly possible, and housing issues, it’s clear workers in the sector can’t rely on pre-Covid pay scales and advancement opportunities. Couple that with stealth ‘solidarity’ taxes, increased cost of ‘luxury’ items, reduction in spending on public services and most of us will look back in ten years time and wonder why we were better off ten years ago even with those years of climbing the ladder under our belts.

Stormyteacup · 09-04-2021 04:25PM

Boggles wrote: »

None of that is actually true, at least for large parts of Europe.

But you are right in certain parts of Europe hospitals are filling up again and schools and businesses are being closed, an avoidable grim couple of months ahead. They didn't listen to their public health officials and scientists.

Fortunately for us our governance have acquiesced.

So the next couple of months for us will be the polar opposite.

I can't see how anyone could have a problem or put a negative spin on that TBH.

It’s likely they will do what they have done since the beginning and implement a sharp lockdown followed by a swift easing. Meanwhile in Ireland...

Boggles · 09-04-2021 04:32PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

It’s likely they will do what they have done since the beginning and implement a sharp lockdown followed by a swift easing. Meanwhile in Ireland...

Most of them have been in some sort of Lockdown since Oct/Nov/Dec, going against their own scientific advisors is the reason they are shutting up shop again.

Boris took a long time to get there, but vaccinate and open as you go it the prudent method.

Who'd have thunk Boris would be praised 12 months after he nearly getting himself killed.

Strange world.

Stormyteacup · 09-04-2021 04:37PM

Boggles wrote: »

Most of them have been in some sort of Lockdown since Oct/Nov/Dec, going against their own scientific advisors is the reason they are shutting up shop again.

Boris took a long time to get there, but vaccinate and open as you go it the prudent method.

Who'd have thunk Boris would be praised 12 months after he nearly getting himself killed.

Strange world.

Well ‘some sort of lockdown’ doesn’t quite cut it. That encompasses a range of restrictions less lengthy, harsh and economically damaging than here in Ireland. You seem to think that vaccinate and open as you go was an option from the beginning? A confluence of circumstances put Boris in a position to be praised. He took advantage of it, and fair enough.

FintanMcluskey · 09-04-2021 04:44PM

Boggles wrote: »

None of that is actually true, at least for large parts of Europe.

But you are right in certain parts of Europe hospitals are filling up again and schools and businesses are being closed, an avoidable grim couple of months ahead. They didn't listen to their public health officials and scientists.

Fortunately for us our governance have acquiesced.

So the next couple of months for us will be the polar opposite.

I can't see how anyone could have a problem or put a negative spin on that TBH.

Absolute total rubbish.

Let’s see what NPHET advised in the past eh

July 15th 2020, 14 cases of Covid in Ireland, great work by the Irish citizens

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-ten-person-limit-put-on-house-gatherings-as-pubs-to-stay-shut-until-august-10th-1.4305203%3fmode=amp

The State’s acting chief medical officer Dr Ronan Glynn warned the pandemic “is not over” and globally was accelerating.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53424074

"The concern about the rise in cases in recent weeks is very real, the R (reproductive) number has risen above 1 in this country," Micheál Martin said.

"The international situation represents a growing worry."

They actually justified continued restrictions on Irish citizens by highlighting growing case numbers in other countries.

Countries that were open!!!!!

And your telling me this time will be different, we will reopen while they are in lockdown!

Good thinking Sherlock

Boggles · 09-04-2021 04:56PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

And your telling me this time will be different, we will reopen while they are in lockdown!

It's happening Fintan, it's reality.

Also if you are going back to June last year for doom mongering you really are scraping that barrel.

We have something very special that we didn't have last year.

Chin up, the worst is behind us.

Boggles · 09-04-2021 04:59PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Well ‘some sort of lockdown’ doesn’t quite cut it. That encompasses a range of restrictions less lengthy, harsh and economically damaging than here in Ireland.

Sorry have you costed and compared each country?

Restrictions are most effective in a suite of measures.

Ireland decide to take advantage of historically low levels of borrowing and put the minority of our economy into life support.

I have yet to see one serious economist argue that was not the right to do.

Stormyteacup wrote: »

You seem to think that vaccinate and open as you go was an option from the beginning? A confluence of circumstances put Boris in a position to be praised. He took advantage of it, and fair enough.

Nope, Boris gets praised because they was absolute huge pressure from his own party to open up sooner.

He "Held Firm", he listened to his scientists.

09-04-2021 05:27PM

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry have you costed and compared each country?

Restrictions are most effective in a suite of measures.

Ireland decide to take advantage of historically low levels of borrowing and put the minority of our economy into life support.

I have yet to see one serious economist argue that was not the right to do.

Nope, Boris gets praised because they was absolute huge pressure from his own party to open up sooner.

He "Held Firm", he listened to his scientists.

You think borrowing more per capita than any country in Europe despite us having one of the youngest populations was the right thing to do?

You really think Ireland will be applauded for their approach upon reflection in a few years? You're posts are so full of illogical tripe that serve no purpose than to relentlessly defend every single action of the Government.

Boggles · 09-04-2021 05:33PM

11521323 wrote: »

You think borrowing more per capita than any country in Europe despite us having one of the youngest populations was the right thing to do?

Not just me.

11521323 wrote: »

You really think Ireland will be applauded for their approach upon reflection in a few years?

I think we will see real tangible effects in a few months.

11521323 wrote: »

You're posts are so full of illogical tripe that serve no purpose

I suppose not every review can be good.

11521323 wrote: »

than to relentlessly defend every single action of the Government.

I voted for no coalition party.

You are venting at the wrong person.

Who did vote for yourself? And what coalition government would you think would have managed the situation better?

Stormyteacup · 09-04-2021 05:41PM

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry have you costed and compared each country?

Restrictions are most effective in a suite of measures.

Ireland decide to take advantage of historically low levels of borrowing and put the minority of our economy into life support.

I have yet to see one serious economist argue that was not the right to do.

Nope, Boris gets praised because they was absolute huge pressure from his own party to open up sooner.

He "Held Firm", he listened to his scientists.

We have the sharpest increase in debt per capita. Yes perhaps no economist would say it was wrong not to take advantage of historically low interest rates in borrowing. However, do you believe they are all in agreement as to the level of borrowing and the amount of debt incurred?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-to-have-highest-debt-per-head-in-europe-this-year-1.4503652%3fmode=amp

As for Boris - he hit the sweet spot between following his scientists’ advice and appeasing the public with a short term plan and hope. Fortuitous, but not an indication of a leader standing out from any other.

Penfailed · 09-04-2021 05:52PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Reagan had it right 25 years ago, the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help."

Believe it or not, that was 35 years ago. Time flies.

Pussyhands · 09-04-2021 06:06PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Absolute total rubbish.

Let’s see what NPHET advised in the past eh

July 15th 2020, 14 cases of Covid in Ireland, great work by the Irish citizens

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-ten-person-limit-put-on-house-gatherings-as-pubs-to-stay-shut-until-august-10th-1.4305203%3fmode=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53424074

They actually justified continued restrictions on Irish citizens by highlighting growing case numbers in other countries.

Countries that were open!!!!!

And your telling me this time will be different, we will reopen while they are in lockdown!

Good thinking Sherlock

Reminds me how they said they didn't want a 4th wave like the EU....despite us having that wave BEFORE the EU because of the UK variant.

niallo27 · 09-04-2021 06:10PM

Ah lads stop replying to him.

Boggles · 09-04-2021 06:20PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

We have the sharpest increase in debt per capita. Yes perhaps no economist would say it was wrong not to take advantage of historically low interest rates in borrowing. However, do you believe they are all in agreement as to the level of borrowing and the amount of debt incurred?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-to-have-highest-debt-per-head-in-europe-this-year-1.4503652%3fmode=amp
.

It's pay walled. I imagine it's the click bait article that tries to suggest Covid has lumped us all with 50k debt, until you read down through it and get to the part where nearly all of it was accrued before Covid even existed.

What is important is the cost of servicing our debt has plummeted.

Saorsat · 09-04-2021 06:28PM

There will be no return to normal, you would have to be as thick as s**t to believe that things will be back to normal in weeks with mandatory hotel quarantine just launched in recent weeks and more and more countries going to be added as weeks go on. You will get a crappy summer like last year, 9 euro meals, "staycations" Counties going into lockdown with a moments notice due to "cases" and "gravely concerned" nphet on the news daily then covid 21 will come and you can kiss your freedom goodbye.

Stormyteacup · 09-04-2021 06:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

It's pay walled. I imagine it's the click bait article that tries to suggest Covid has lumped us all with 50kj debt, until you read down through it and get to the part where nearly all of it was accrued before Covid even existed.

What is important is the cost of servicing our debt has plummeted.

No what it’s pointing to is that we have the sharpest increase in debt. The rate of servicing our debt has decreased but is offset by the amount of debt we have incurred.

Edited to say ‘offset’ implies a balancing, which it is not. The amount of our borrowing has increased the servicing of our debt far beyond what would be in line with other EU counties’ servicing of debt.

eggy81 · 09-04-2021 06:32PM

gmisk wrote: »

No blame for the people of ireland who broke restrictions, didn't social distance, visited half the country, went to house parties etc no?

Nah. Most did obey the restrictions hence numbers dropping when restrictions were in place. Numbers went up at Christmas when restrictions were relaxed.

arccosh · 09-04-2021 06:35PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

We do not need to look at other countries especially one's at the other side of the planet...

unless you plan on shutting the boarders, I'm afraid we do....

I take it the 4th peak currently growing in the continent is just flu season too?

Boggles · 09-04-2021 07:02PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

The rate of servicing our debt has decreased but is offset by the amount of debt we have incurred.

No it hasn't. That not how servicing debt works.

And interest payments have fallen too. New debt borrowed since the pandemic has benefitted from the extraordinary support from the European Central Bank which has pushed borrowing costs into negative territory.

For example, in 2013 interest payments on the national debt amounted to €7.8 billion. That was equal to 12.5% of government revenue. Last year, that had fallen to €3.9 billion or 4.6% of government revenue. This year the interest bill is forecast to fall further to €3.6 billion or 4% of revenue.

hynesie08 · 09-04-2021 07:12PM

Saorsat wrote: »

then covid 21 will come and you can kiss your freedom goodbye.

What happened to covid 20?

Stormyteacup · 09-04-2021 07:15PM

Boggles wrote: »

No it hasn't. That not how servicing debt works.

But you’re quoting interest repayments and not accounting for the capital repayment portion. Basically total repayment including interest has increased - although agreed it’s good value. Borrowing 100,000 Euro at 0.1% is much better value than borrowing 1,000 Euro at 7%. It still results in more money to be handed over for repayment.

CruelSummer · 09-04-2021 07:25PM

You know things have gone way too far when George Lee is on the Six One talking about ‘Government studies re our behaviour’ - trying to point fingers at people for living their lives. Get stuffed George and Government pointing fingers at people meeting and ‘going into work’.
When on earth are people going to say enough of this?!
People have lost a year of their lives, hospitalisations and deaths due to Covid are on a big decline. What should be on the news are strategies on what the reopening will look like, how rapid tests & vaccinations will work & what needs to be set up in the next few weeks.

CruelSummer · 09-04-2021 07:28PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But you’re quoting interest repayments and not accounting for the capital repayment portion. Basically total repayment including interest has increased - although agreed it’s good value. Borrowing 100,000 Euro at 0.1% is much better value than borrowing 1,000 Euro at 7%. It still results in more money to be handed over for repayment.

Sssh most people in Ireland think we’ve a magic money tree & are only too happy to take the Government’s ‘free money’. Who cares about the principal of a loan? Let’s just concentrate on the low interest rates and pretend we don’t owe billions and are not getting anything from the EU bailout fund.
Not to mention Biden now wants to tax all US multinationals, including those in Ireland heavily further decimating our economy. Having an exit strategy is a good idea - I know I do.

AlekSmart · 09-04-2021 07:28PM

JRant wrote: »

Honestly, I haven't a clue Pen. When they keep bleating about how we can open up in a few short weeks once people are vaccinated I'd like to know what they mean. Can journalists at these things not ask these types of questions? I mean, it's the obvious question to ask.

Glynn did say outdoor activities and dining should be open but we are not there yet. When do we get there?

The study released recently showed outdoor spread is a nonentity. Yet, Henry was straight out poo pooing it saying it was activities either side of the outdoor activity that was a big risk. Complete shïtê talk IMO because he was conflating indoor activities with outdoor ones.

It really is the burning question,particularly in the Irish context.

Where have the Journalists gone ?

Ronan Glynn recently said that NPHET's job was to be careful,and that means in the scientific and medical sense.

It is abundantly clear that NPHET Members do not see any merit in considering Social Interaction as an integral part of the human condition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMt3SzAH_i0

They really are Borg ! :eek:

Corholio · 09-04-2021 07:30PM

eggy81 wrote: »

Nah. Most did obey the restrictions hence numbers dropping when restrictions were in place. Numbers went up at Christmas when restrictions were relaxed.

Restrictions were relaxed but not dropped, a lot went mad at Christmas and along came January.

Boggles · 09-04-2021 07:39PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But you’re quoting interest repayments and not accounting for the capital repayment portion. Basically total repayment including interest has increased - although agreed it’s good value. Borrowing 100,000 Euro at 0.1% is much better value than borrowing 1,000 Euro at 7%. It still results in more money to be handed over for repayment.

Why would you do that? It's not like we increased our debt by 60% or something crazy.

Right now we are basically getting paid to borrow.

Debt will be pushed out, sold and refinanced x infinity.

Anyone Helen Lovejoying about the kids being saddled with debt doesn't understand debt.

09-04-2021 07:41PM

Boggles wrote: »

Why would you do that? It's not like we increased our debt by 60% or something crazy.

Right now we are basically getting paid to borrow.

Debt will be pushed out, sold and refinanced x infinity.

Anyone Helen Lovejoying about the kids being saddled with debt doesn't understand debt.

Your posts display a lack of basic understanding of debt, you couldn't write this. I'm done replying to you and I'd plead with anyone else who has the willpower to hold back to do the same. Goodbye.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings