Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

facehugger99 wrote: »

Unfortunately we have had the perfect storm. It's been a three pronged issue.

1) The media has followed the clicks and the money. The have ramped up the hysteria since Day 1. They have shamelessly tried to play up the dangers of Covid. They have failed to hold decision makers to account and they have pumped out an incessant stream of fearmongering throughout.

2) The Irish public has by and large been a disgrace. Willing to trade away hard-won civil liberties and freedoms for 'safety'. Unquestioning obedience of what the 'man on the telly' tells them to do' Wallowing in the misery and hysteria throughout. A short-term outlook that has failed to realise that their current relatively cushy conditions are underpinned by the unsustainable borrowings of tens of billions of euros.
No other nation would meekly accept the severity and duration of the Irish lockdown and the really frightening this is, I don't think a substantial proportion of them are even near protesting it.

It has been an eye-opener and for the first time in my life, I'm embarrassed to be Irish. No other democratic country would have accepted what we did.

3) The Government. Cowardly, weak, self-centered and selfish. The worst generation of politicians in the history of the State, they have caved to the hysteria from the media and public. They have spent tens of billions covering their own arses.


If any of the above 3 had acted in a responsible manner we would not be in the absolute hole we are now.

It has been thoroughly depressing to watch this unfold.

Yeah everyone else is wrong & you're "embarrassed" :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well we who had doubts and opposed the eternal unwavering un-nuanced lockdown strategy won't forget who did the damage. Their names will be remembered along with those nphet and government cheerleaders who twitched curtains and maligned anyone who asked questions

An interesting little book review from 5 years ago......

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/aug/10/how-wartime-britons-were-easily-persuaded-by-the-propagandists

The credit for the success of the lengthy propaganda war goes to the ministry of information and to the wisdom of politicians who realised that it was more effective to bend the truth - to spin it, to employ the modern term - rather than suppress it.

The ministry was staffed by a shifting cast of people who churned out an astonishing range of material in order to fulfil the war cabinet’s objective “to help sustain public morale and to stimulate the war effort.”

Some parallells in our "War" ?

mean gene

Klonker wrote: »

This is the strangest thing of all. We have a government that implemented the harshest restrictions in Europe since this pandemic began. You would think the opposition parties, the public and the media would all be questioning why have we had the harshest restrictions when we have one of the youngest populations. But no, the vast majority complain that restrictions have not gone far enough. Its actually baffling and its going to be a long road back I fear.

can you imagine how much worse the whole saga would have been if sinn fein got in chr1st almighty -how and why did some people vote for them -they have been a failure as opposition

JeffKenna

mean gene wrote: »

can you imagine how much worse the whole saga would have been if sinn fein got in chr1st almighty -how and why did some people vote for them -they have been a failure as opposition

This is the lowest standard of Irish politicians I've ever seen in my life.

Loafing Oaf

mean gene wrote: »

can you imagine how much worse the whole saga would have been if sinn fein got in chr1st almighty -how and why did some people vote for them -they have been a failure as opposition

I don't see how the handling of the pandemic would have been massively different. They favoured tighter restrictions than the government at some points/looser ones at others. Overall I'd say we would have ended up in a similar place.

mean gene

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't see how the handling of the pandemic would have been massively different. They favoured tighter restrictions than the government at some points/looser ones at others. Overall I'd say we would have ended up in a similar place.

way worse imo -they have no people of note thats any good bunch of amateurs

Captain_Crash

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't see how the handling of the pandemic would have been massively different. They favoured tighter restrictions than the government at some points/looser ones at others. Overall I'd say we would have ended up in a similar place.

I think Leo & Co. would have been very critical of SF had they done exactly what FFFG are doing now. They wouldn’t shut up about it if the roles were reversed! So I’m a strange way, we’d likely be in a better position thanks to the very people in power now!!

Loafing Oaf

mean gene wrote: »

way worse imo -they have no people of note thats any good bunch of amateurs

Let's face it NPHET have been calling most of the shots. I highly doubt SF would have had the courage/brass neck to defy them much more than the government has.

AlekSmart

VeryWise wrote: »

From the examiner today....

“More than half of all babies did not receive a crucial development health check due before they turned one due to the pandemic.

Public health nurse visits and important screening checks have been curtailed and delayed as a result of restrictions — and the HSE cannot say when full services will resume.

The HSE has confirmed over 28,172 infants reaching 10 months had their child development health screening on time or before reaching 12 months of age last year. An average of 60,000 babies are born here every year.”

There is something fundamentally wrong in our society if we think this is ok. We still have the opposition looking for more ridiculous restrictions like MHQ of vaccinated travellers.

I have thought so many times in the past year, ok this is so obviously ridiculous that it will not persist but it just never seems to happen. There needs to be real accountability for politicians, hse officials, NPHET and celebrity doctors that cancelled cancer screenings and child development screenings. It is just scandalous and immoral.

Why,I wonder,have NPHET not addressed this in any of their pronouncements ?

Is their Reality Compass so banjaxed that they cannot appreciate the HUGE importance of the first 12 months of human life and the equally HUGE cross generational benefit of the earliest detection of potentially life changing illnesses and conditions.

It really is beyond belief,at this stage,that these august members of an "Emergency Team" appear intent on ensuring that many more future "Emergencies" are now being facilitated by their continued refusal to broaden their consideration base.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/hippocratic-oath-today/

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

That small line from the original oath appears to have been disregarded by many of the members of NPHET.

Those 30,000 Infants,all of whom are entitled to the benefit of Hippocrates principles,have been disregarded in the rush to "Hold Firm" ......:mad:

PTH2009

Said many times here before but im at the stage now where if some people want to hide away and are scared of the virus than leave them off.

I want to go out and live, work again when i'm able to and travel again when the time comes. Ill obv still protect myself and others (mask wearing when i have to, hand washing/sanitizing and social distance)

gozunda

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is mad...I can't understand it either.

If what Varadkar said earlier in the week is where the Government is at...that people who have been vaccinated will be allowed to engage in more activities than those who haven't been vaccinated I think could cause public outrage that can't be ignored...

We are rightfully vaccinating our most vulnerable first...as it is because of these people our young have been forced to cull all social activities from sport to meetings, to social lives...to deny those young people access to vital parts of their lives long after those vulnerable people have been vaccinated is the point where one has to ask what exactly is behind this...there is no justification for prolonging the cost of this to young people, especially during the next 5 months where no one is at risk in any meaningful way.

We are indeed. And those who are vulnerable include the approx. 50% of under 65s in hospital with covid

Many young people also have conditions which mean they have a higher risk of becoming seriously ill with Covid-19 - conditions which range from Asthma to Cancer to Pregnancy.

But the important thing is we have had restrictions to help keep the rate of infection down and to allow our heathcare system to continue to cope with treating people of all ages who aquire Covid and require medical intervention.

But let's ignore any of that and just pretend its all the old foggies fault for ruining "young peoples social activities".

But as you say there's absolutely no justification for prolonging restrictions so let's just stir up some public outrage ...

Or we could all simply be grown ups about the current situation and wait the relatively short time it will take to get everyone vaccinated.

JRant

AlekSmart wrote: »

It really is the burning question,particularly in the Irish context.

Where have the Journalists gone ?

Ronan Glynn recently said that NPHET's job was to be careful,and that means in the scientific and medical sense.

It is abundantly clear that NPHET Members do not see any merit in considering Social Interaction as an integral part of the human condition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMt3SzAH_i0

They really are Borg ! :eek:

I'm not sure of her name but that dose from Virgin media spent the first 6 months asking NPHET about weddings.

Glynn also said they are only concerned about public health. Yet here we are with the health service in an even bigger jocker than before with enormous waiting list. So they have pretty much failed across the board.

Captain_Crash

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I think Leo & Co. would have been very critical of SF had they done exactly what FFFG are doing now. They wouldn’t shut up about it if the roles were reversed! So I’m a strange way, we’d likely be in a better position thanks to the very people in power now!!

Same applies in the UK, where the Tories would not have stopped bleating on about authoritarianism had they been in opposition. Yet here we are.

When parties that favour government overreach are in opposition, and parties that would ordinarily object to it are in power, it’s a bad time for a crisis.

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

We are indeed. And those who are vulnerable include the approx. 50% of under 65s in hospital with covid

Many young people also have conditions which mean they have a higher risk of becoming seriously ill with Covid-19 - conditions which range from Asthma to Cancer to Pregnancy.

But the important thing is we have had restrictions to help keep the rate of infection down and to allow our heathcare system to continue to cope with treating people of all ages who aquire Covid and require medical intervention.

But let's ignore any of that and just pretend its all the old foggies fault for ruining "young peoples social activities".

But as you say there's absolutely no justification for prolonging restrictions so let's just stir up some public outrage ...

Or we could all simply be grown ups about the current situation and wait the relatively short time it will take to get everyone vaccinated.

But they haven't allowed hospitals to cope with treating all other non COVID illnesses. That's the problem.

ninebeanrows

Just a reminder if you want to complain about Mandatory Hotel Quarantine in Ireland to the EU Commission you can with the link below, it takes just 3 to 5 minutes and will put a voice across.

https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

the kelt

212 people in hospital with a disease means ye can’t get your hair cut and it’s still illegal for a shoe shop to sell children’s shoes.

Lol

I wonder when even the most loyal government devotees on here up all night posting, defending all they do to randomers on a website will say ah here hold on, less than 200, 150, 100, 0

Or perhaps that’s their life highlight at the moment, it’s a weird weird time.

ninebeanrows

the kelt wrote: »

212 people in hospital with a disease means ye can’t get your hair cut and it’s still illegal for a shoe shop to sell children’s shoes.

Lol

I wonder when even the most loyal government devotees on here up all night posting, defending all they do to randomers on a website will say ah here hold on, less than 200, 150, 100, 0

Or perhaps that’s their life highlight at the moment, it’s a weird weird time.

Lots of cancers services are on hold at the moment. We have went too far.

COVID is a serious threat but our over reaction has and will continue for years to come result in mammoth issues for our state.

AlekSmart

Faugheen wrote: »

As NPHET have pointed out numerous times, the wider health system doesn't have the resources.

That's what happens when you have a body like the HSE which has been mismanaged for years running the health service.

You really are showing yourself up to having no clue what NPHET actually does and even when it's pointed out to you, you want to point fingers anyway.

Why the HSE has'nt got the "Resources" may well be a valid question.

Another valid Question may rather focus upon what role the HSE's management of it's resources has played in the current "shortage" of them ?

It may well be described as "finger pointing",but in the almost total absence of meaningful oversight,is there another option available to concerned people ?

For sure,the issue does not relate so much to resource availability,but the methods by which HSE senior management go about spending the funds.

The amounts at play are astronomical....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40232897.html

The HSE budget for 2021 will see an increase of €3.5bn bring the total budget to €20,623bn as the healthcare system continues to reckon with the Covid-19 pandemic.

There's an apposite quote from Leo Varadakar in this Lancet article from 2018....

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)30461-6/fulltext

The Irish Taoiseach (Prime Minister) Leo Varadkar recently stated that Ireland spends the fifth highest amount on health in the world, therefore citizens should expect the fifth best health system in the world.1

Still not much sign of the 579 ICU beds recommended in 2009 ?

Stormyteacup

the kelt wrote: »

212 people in hospital with a disease means ye can’t get your hair cut and it’s still illegal for a shoe shop to sell children’s shoes.

Lol

I wonder when even the most loyal government devotees on here up all night posting, defending all they do to randomers on a website will say ah here hold on, less than 200, 150, 100, 0

Or perhaps that’s their life highlight at the moment, it’s a weird weird time.

Yes strange time, and those that defend the government don’t even facilitate debate, the goal seems to be to dismiss any dissenting opinion and shutdown discussion. Weird indeed. Wherever your opinion on current government, they can’t be right all of the time Shirley?

bear1

I'm beyond ashamed of being Irish right now.
What an absolute farce from them.

Silentcorner

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes strange time, and those that defend the government don’t even facilitate debate, the goal seems to be to dismiss any dissenting opinion and shutdown discussion. Weird indeed. Wherever your opinion on current government, they can’t be right all of the time Shirley?

They can....they were right about the deadly gravy boats at Xmas...the science says so....and don't call me Shirley!!!

mcsean2163

AlekSmart wrote: »

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu--testing



But who will think of the 3,889,075 negative tests.....:(

Since 16th March 2020.



From Sept 2020......

https://www.thejournal.ie/icu-bed-numbers-5217685-Sep2020/





There's an Emergency alright,but it has little to do with Corona or any other virus.......:mad:

My wife is part of a 4 person hospital team that has been reduced to a 2 person team. She works all the hours and is exhausted. We have the lowest proportion of our population over 65 in the EU, this is only going to increase.

We need more doctors,more nurses and more hospital bed. It sounds like a LOT more backend efficiencies need to be introduced and that budget spent on frontline staff.

It's not nphets fault that our hospital system is absolutely appalling. Blaming nphet is like blaming the father Peter mcvery trust for homelessness. Frontline staff live on a different planet, an exhausting planet, it's hard for them to care too much about gyms when they are shattered everyday.

If people are angry, they should contact their local politicians and ask why there is no ICU capacity, even now after spending nearly 5 billion more than we took in, in Q1 2021. Why is nobody held accountable for cost overruns, e.g. Children hospital.? IMHO, the public sector is a poorly resourced inefficient mess that needs to be sorted by our elected leaders, not nphet.

AlekSmart

hamburgham wrote: »

Just thinking, Pat Kenny lives by the sea in Dalkey. He must definitely be going around in a life jacket as well as a mask in case he accidentially ends up in the sea with all the dodging and weaving he's doing avoiding "plumes" from joggers and cyclists.

I understand his show has a new sig tune from Monday......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yijz7_z7KE

G'wan Pat...I dare ya

Silentcorner

bear1 wrote: »

I'm beyond ashamed of being Irish right now.
What an absolute farce from them.

I think a lot us of are the same.

This has brought out the worst in our establishment, bureaucrats, politicians, media...complete capitulation to herd mentality, you heard it from Martin just last week...covid is more deadly than cancer...

It will set this country back in a self inflicted hysterical reaction to a virus that would have done the same damage with half the restrictions for years to come, we will lose another generation to emigration.

But how easily we were whipped into hysteria is something I'll never forget...and how intolerant we are of protesters or even people who are defying the nonsensical rules we are told to live by...knowing we are subjected to one of the most draconian lock downs on the planet...

bear1

Silentcorner wrote: »

I think a lot us of are the same.

This has brought out the worst in our establishment, bureaucrats, politicians, media...complete capitulation to herd mentality, you heard it from Martin just last week...covid is more deadly than cancer...

It will set this country back in a self inflicted hysterical reaction to a virus that would have done the same damage with half the restrictions for years to come, we will lose another generation to emigration.

But how easily we were whipped into hysteria is something I'll never forget...and how intolerant we are of protesters or even people who are defying the nonsensical rules we are told to live by...knowing we are subjected to one of the most draconian lock downs on the planet...

Do you know what's mad? The protests against water charges and to this.. nothing.

d161

The lockdown is dead, long live the lockdown!

Today, the hairdresser came to our house, did my wife's colouring and cut my 3 kids hair. Unfortunately I don't have any hair to cut. My wife wanted this done before she travelled to visit her family in another county for the day, where she visited at least 3 houses. Only her second visit to her family since Christmas.
While she was gone I went to my mother's house and then had a few beers in my cousins house. I've been in that house multiple times in the last few weeks.
My oldest daughter is currently in her friend's house. Her friend had a covid test yesterday which she apparantly passed after returning from a visit to her family in the UK the day before. Her mother said she is happy with her daughter breaking restrictions as long the other parents agree. This daughter also had a sleep over in a different friend's house last week which I was more than happy to agree to.
My second daughter and her 3 friends have moved on from socialising in the garden to socialising in the garage, not my house.
That said I did have 4 of my daughters friends in my house about a mount ago, so I'm not that innocent.
My cousin's wife and his daughter arrived back from the US yesterday after visiting her family in Boston for the last week. She's sending the daughter back to school next Monday. I actually do disagree with that but who cares.
My buddy who has had pints with me multiple times in his house and my house with his wife's disapproval told me yesterday that his wife's hair dresser arrived yesterday to do her hair.
I could go on...
Lockdown is over except in your head.

mcsean2163

JRant wrote: »

But they haven't allowed hospitals to cope with treating all other non COVID illnesses. That's the problem.

This is incredibly stupid. Other services stopped because of Covid19. My wife and her team are trying to get through their huge waiting lists which got bigger BECAUSE of COVID19.

Instead of seeing her normal patients she was assigned to work with covid19 patients during the crisis.

To put it in context, a typical flu patient is in hospital for a week, a typical covid19 patient is in hospital for 3-4 weeks. This is why it's so much worse for hospitals.

They are now desparately trying to get to their normal patients and have been working like animals the last year.

Fwiw, I lost my job last year when the schools closed and found a new one in q4 then lost it again when schools closed this year. It's been an absolute disaster for me but still it's incredibly frustrating to hear people spouting nonsense.

_Kaiser_

bear1 wrote: »

Do you know what's mad? The protests against water charges and to this.. nothing.

That's because the media and particularly social media managed to link protests to "far right" extremism (unless it's for BLM or something of course! :rolleyes: )

This in a country that doesn't even have a "right" anymore!

One thing this entire mess HAS shown is the hugely damaging influence that unregulated social media can have on a population. The drama at the moment is about the possibility of the US upping Corporate tax rates but regulating these platforms is just as essential IMO.

mcsean2163

d161 wrote: »

The lockdown is dead, long live the lockdown!

Today, the hairdresser came to our house, did my wife's colouring and cut my 3 kids hair. Unfortunately I don't have any hair to cut. My wife wanted this done before she travelled to visit her family in another county for the day, where she visited at least 3 houses. Only her second visit to her family since Christmas.
While she was gone I went to my mother's house and then had a few beers in my cousins house. I've been in that house multiple times in the last few weeks.
My oldest daughter is currently in her friend's house. Her friend had a covid test yesterday which she apparantly passed after returning from a visit to her family in the UK the day before. Her mother said she is happy with her daughter breaking restrictions as long the other parents agree. This daughter also had a sleep over in a different friend's house last week which I was more than happy to agree to.
My second daughter and her 3 friends have moved on from socialising in the garden to socialising in the garage, not my house.
That said I did have 4 of my daughters friends in my house about a mount ago, so I'm not that innocent.
My cousin's wife and his daughter arrived back from the US yesterday after visiting her family in Boston for the last week. She's sending the daughter back to school next Monday. I actually do disagree with that but who cares.
My buddy who has had pints with me multiple times in his house and my house with his wife's disapproval told me yesterday that his wife's hair dresser arrived yesterday to do her hair.
I could go on...
Lockdown is over except in your head.

What a f**kin hero. I hope you have a good w**k to celebrate before you go to sleep

AlekSmart

CruelSummer wrote: »

You know things have gone way too far when George Lee is on the Six One talking about ‘Government studies re our behaviour’ - trying to point fingers at people for living their lives. Get stuffed George and Government pointing fingers at people meeting and ‘going into work’.
When on earth are people going to say enough of this?!
People have lost a year of their lives, hospitalisations and deaths due to Covid are on a big decline. What should be on the news are strategies on what the reopening will look like, how rapid tests & vaccinations will work & what needs to be set up in the next few weeks.

But,our George is referencing reality.....Governments have made very good use of this Public Health "Emergency".....more yet to come !

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/3008f6-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-nphet-covid-19-subgroup-be/