F1 2021 :Round 1 Bahrain

recyclebin · 29-03-2021 01:42PM

It did look like the stewards were being influenced by Red Bull but it was hilarious to see it biting Reb Bull and Max in the arse later in the race!!!

recyclebin · 29-03-2021 01:44PM

Four wheels over the white line is considered off the track for an overtake. Curbs should be ignored in this case.

Burkie1203 · 29-03-2021 01:53PM

recyclebin wrote: »

Four wheels over the white line is considered off the track for an overtake. Curbs should be ignored in this case.

But it was a racing line for the rest of the race. Just not the few seconds Max was racing there.

KevRossi · 29-03-2021 02:22PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

But it was a racing line for the rest of the race. Just not the few seconds Max was racing there.

It was the racing line for the first half of the race, then the stewards changed it.
They shouldn't be changing stuff like that over the course of the weekend, let alone in the middle of the race.

It's the fault of the stewards we're discussing this rather than discussing how good of a final few laps it was.

Gaoth Laidir · 29-03-2021 04:54PM

Right, here it is from Michael Masi's mouth. So contrary to Faugheen's claims, not every other car was doing it. Lewis was the only one doing it consistently, which no doubt gave him a lasting advantage with regards to overall race time.

The policing of track limits at Turn 4 was a hot topic throughout the Bahrain Grand Prix race weekend. But despite some question marks over how certain drivers interpreted the rules, FIA Race Director Michael Masi insisted that his guidance to the teams throughout the weekend had been clear.

It was eventual winner Lewis Hamilton who was heard being warned on team radio by his race engineer Pete Bonnington to stop using a line at the exit of Turn 4 which saw his car go beyond the red and white kerb during the race – and which, according to Red Bull Team Principal Christian Horner, would have given Hamilton a 0.2s per lap advantage.

That line had been deemed illegal for practice and qualifying, but according to the Race Directors’ Notes wouldn’t be monitored during the Grand Prix. But speaking after the race, Masi explained why the stewards ended up threatening Hamilton with a black and white flag if he continued using that line.

“With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race,” said Masi, “it was mentioned very clearly in the [drivers’] meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time so to speak – but it will always be monitored in according with the Sporting Regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained.

“Nothing changed at all during the race,” he added. “We had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn’t a constant thing.”

Masi also responded to questions on why, when Red Bull’s Max Verstappen had passed Hamilton for the lead using the same wide Turn 4 line, he’d had to give the position back to Hamilton – in a move which ensured the seven-time champion won the season opener.

“So it is quite different and clearly specifically different and consistent with both notes and what was mentioned and discussed with drivers in the driver meeting,” said Masi. “If an overtake takes place with a car off track and gains an advantage, a lasting advantage, I will go on the radio and suggest to the team that they immediately relinquish that position, and that was made very clear.

“Red Bull were actually given an instruction immediately by myself that I suggested they relinquish that position as listed in the Sporting Regulations, which they did. It wasn’t for exceeding track limits – it was for gaining a lasting advantage by overtaking another car off the race track.”

Inquitus · 29-03-2021 05:00PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Right, here it is from Michael Masi's mouth. So contrary to Faugheen's claims, not every other car was doing it. Lewis was the only one doing it consistently, which no doubt gave him a lasting advantage with regards to overall race time.

Only it obviously didn't per Masi, as Masi didn't penalise him, you can't have it both ways, lol.

Faugheen · 29-03-2021 05:05PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Right, here it is from Michael Masi's mouth. So contrary to Faugheen's claims, not every other car was doing it. Lewis was the only one doing it consistently, which no doubt gave him a lasting advantage with regards to overall race time.

If it gave him a lasting advantage then why wasn’t he punished?

Seriously, as posted above, you can’t have it both ways.

Gaoth Laidir · 29-03-2021 05:08PM

So his 30 laps at around 0.2 s per lap didn't add up to an advantage? If it didn't then why tell him to stop?

Gaoth Laidir · 29-03-2021 05:18PM

Faugheen wrote: »

‘Without justifiable reason’
‘Without gaining a lasting advantage’.

What do you suppose overtaking while off the track does?

What do you suppose going off the track for 29 laps does? You can't have it both ways...

Also, do you now accept that "every single team except Red Bull" were NOT doing that, as you repeatedly claimed yesterday?

Faugheen wrote: »

Again. Mercedes were not allowed to ‘steal’ everything.

Every single team except Red Bull were doing this ‘at the discretion of the race director’. Then they decided to tell Max to start doing it.

Max then went off the track while overtaking therefore ‘gaining a lasting advantage’.

It really is that simple.

Faugheen wrote: »

Why did everybody bar Red Bull do it then?

Faugheen wrote: »

And yet everybody bar Red Bull were doing it.

Funny that

v3ttel · 29-03-2021 05:32PM

The issue is the greyness of this "lasting advantage" non-sense. They should make it clear. If you have all four wheels, outside the track, then it's two warnings and the next time it's a penalty.

Should you be able to overtake or complete an overtake outside the track? No, absolutely not. I think it was right that Max had to hand it back.

However anyone who takes the stance that Lewis didn't gain a lasting advantage by running well outside the track limits nearly 30 times is just not being genuine. Lewis would not have been out there so repeatedly if he wasn't deeming it to be the fastest line.

The issue is that Lewis has benefited from pushing the boundaries more than anyone else, yet has also benefited from his only rival being penalised for attempting to take the same racing line he did for 1/29 of the time he had the advantage of it. Lewis had the best of both worlds in a race that he won by the skin of his teeth.

Between the strategy, track limit issues and Max's diff issues, he was lucky to escape with the win. I just hope Mercedes don't rock up to Imola in 3 week's time well clear of Red Bull. We need a title fight.

Inquitus · 29-03-2021 05:33PM

v3ttel wrote: »

The issue is the greyness of this "lasting advantage" non-sense. They should make it clear. If you have all four wheels, outside the track, then it's two warnings and the next time it's a penalty.

Should you be able to overtake or complete an overtake outside the track? No, absolutely not. I think it was right that Max had to hand it back.

However anyone who takes the stance that Lewis didn't gain a lasting advantage by running well outside the track limits nearly 30 times is just not being genuine. Lewis would not have been out there so repeatedly if he wasn't deeming it to be the fastest line.

The issue is that Lewis has benefited from pushing the boundaries more than anyone else, yet has also benefited from his only rival being penalised for attempting to take the same racing line he did for 1/29 of the time he had the advantage of it. Lewis had the best of both worlds in a race that he won by the skin of his teeth.

Between the strategy, track limit issues and Max's diff issues, he was lucky to win it. I just hope Mercedes don't rock up to Imola in 3 week's time well clear of Red Bull. We need a title fight.

Lando said, after the race, that what he took from the race briefing was that turn 4 was fair game and would not be policed. Same was said by a couple of other drivers Will Buxton interviewed.

Gaoth Laidir · 29-03-2021 06:13PM

Inquitus wrote: »

Lando said, after the race, that what he took from the race briefing was that turn 4 was fair game and would not be policed. Same was said by a couple of other drivers Will Buxton interviewed.

Except that Masi said he had two people policing every car at that corner.

Inquitus · 29-03-2021 06:22PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Except that Masi said he had two people policing every car at that corner.

It seems that Masi and the FIA made a mess of this, from all the accounts I have read and heard, they just need to be much clearer in future so there is no ambiguity.

Gaoth Laidir · 29-03-2021 06:32PM

Inquitus wrote: »

It seems that Masi and the FIA made a mess of this, from all the accounts I have read and heard, they just need to be much clearer in future so there is no ambiguity.

Absolutely. It's like the VAR fiasco at times.

Burkie1203 · 29-03-2021 06:34PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Except that Masi said he had two people policing every car at that corner.

Must have been Toto and Crofty

Frank Bullitt · 29-03-2021 09:36PM

One thing that really ruined the race for me was Crofts stupid little giggle after every little joke Brundle tells...every.single.time.

29-03-2021 09:59PM

I must be the only one on this thread who likes Crofty.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cookie_Monster · 29-03-2021 10:35PM

Inquitus wrote: »

It seems that Masi and the FIA made a mess of this, from all the accounts I have read and heard, they just need to be much clearer in future so there is no ambiguity.

its not like it is even difficult. there is a white line at the edge of the track and a rule stating you must stay within it. Just enforce it everywhere all the time, no ambiguity. Its such a ****ing stupid problem to have

LollipopJimmy · 29-03-2021 10:37PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I must be the only one on this thread who likes Crofty.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Get out

29-03-2021 10:44PM

muckwarrior · 29-03-2021 11:24PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I must be the only one on this thread who likes Crofty.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FYP

Killinator · 30-03-2021 05:39AM

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1376501204415565832.html

Good piece on the whole turn 4 debacle

Burkie1203 · 30-03-2021 07:39AM

Killinator wrote: »

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1376501204415565832.html

Good piece on the whole turn 4 debacle

Saw that but think Buxton nailed it much simpler.

If that wide line from Hamilton is fine when he is on his own, then its fine when he is being overtaken. Or else neither is fine.

Essentially Max took the same Racing Line Hamilton had been taking. And got punished for it simply by circumstance.

Gaoth Laidir · 30-03-2021 08:14AM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Saw that but think Buxton nailed it much simpler.

If that wide line from Hamilton is fine when he is on his own, then its fine when he is being overtaken. Or else neither is fine.

Essentially Max took the same Racing Line Hamilton had been taking. And got punished for it simply by circumstance.

And he had already completed the pass and was well ahead of Lewis when he went off.

rock22 · 30-03-2021 08:22AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Again. Mercedes were not allowed to ‘steal’ everything.

Every single team except Red Bull were doing this ‘at the discretion of the race director’. Then they decided to tell Max to start doing it.

Max then went off the track while overtaking therefore ‘gaining a lasting advantage’.

It really is that simple.

Perhaps you might explain it to Todd Wolff and Christian Horner because they say they don't understand

McFly85 · 30-03-2021 09:01AM

Killinator wrote: »

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1376501204415565832.html

Good piece on the whole turn 4 debacle

This makes the whole thing a bit clearer to understand, and it boils down to LH taking the p*ss.

The stewards need to be clearer about “not monitoring track limits” in future.

flazio · 30-03-2021 09:17AM

To me, the red/white kerb is perfect for measuring an "allowance" for grip degradation. Get an advantage by going well clear of the red white kerb then that's severe enough misdemeanor to warrant black and white flag. Unfortunately, because of the Sakhir layout you can't put any other kerbing or barriers out there.
So Lewis going well wide of the red white kerb is a penalty, as is Max if he overtook out there.

SureYWouldntYa · 30-03-2021 09:24AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I must be the only one on this thread who likes Crofty.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not the only one, never got the hate for him and people calling him out on calling things wrong but loved Murray Walker for the same thing

He had a line during the race about Nikita Mazepin being out of the race due to "suspected crashing out issues" which was fantastic

flazio · 30-03-2021 10:09AM

It's his use of phrases like "the old switcheroo" and constantly leaning towards saying "they're going wheel to wheel" whenever any two drivers go side to side for position.
He makes F1 feel more like a tabloid readers sport.

Anjobe · 30-03-2021 10:19AM

McFly85 wrote: »

This makes the whole thing a bit clearer to understand, and it boils down to LH taking the p*ss.

The stewards need to be clearer about “not monitoring track limits” in future.

Exploiting loopholes and ambiguity until they are closed/clarified is pretty much the norm in F1. I think the earlier comment about Race Control making a complete mess of defining and policing the track limits at T4 for the race is more to the point.

If this season is going to be as close as it appears right now and if Red Bull want to win, they need to be the ones pushing the limits and being reigned in by the stewards/FIA, not just complaining about Mercedes doing so. If it does remain close between Hamilton and Verstappen through the season it is probably going to get quite acrimonious. Here's hoping for a repeat of 1976.

F1 2021 :Round 1 Bahrain

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