F1 2021 :Round 1 Bahrain

Burkie1203

KevRossi wrote: »

Stewards are to blame for the mess here.

Seems to be clear in the race rules that they weren't going to check the corner, but to then allow blatant crossing the line for 30 laps without pulling the drivers up on it is a bit odd. If that's the way they are stewarding it, then fair enough, but do so for the whole race.

To change their opinion on it after 30 laps or so makes them look bad and leads to confusion. Also hard to see how the cars that were going wide were not gaining an advantage for those 30 laps; they most certainly were.

Max going wide gave him an advantage during an overtake, he (or the team) decided to hand it back to Lewis. They didn't have much choice after being warned about it in Lap 30. It doesn't matter if he left the track before, during or after the overtake, he gained an advantage.

Also we all have the benefit in hindsight of knowing where and when Max might have had a better chance of overtaking, he made the decision to do it there and we can't fault him for that.

Either way a great few laps at the end, very exciting. Mercedes isn't slow, despite what Lewis says, they'll improve, just remains to be seen if RB can keep pace with them until December.

They deleted laps on Saturday in Quali because it is an advantage..

If LH ran wide 29 times as is widely reported and gained say 0.2s each time as an average he has literally gained 6 seconds on Max. If max came out after his 2nd stop only 2 or 3 seconds behind instead of 9s back he catches up quicker taking less out of his tyres to do so and has more chances to pass.


As Buxton says, if its legit when in clear air, it's legit when overtaking.

Brundle said in comms they have sensors out there. It cannot be that difficult to implement these days.

The track should be defined by white lines and staying within them.

recyclebin

Overtaking by leaving the track has always been policed. The fact that it happened at the same corner is just a coincidence and a separate problem. I was surprised they made such a quick call on it though and Max let him by so soon after. Normally stedards take an age to make decisions and leave it until after the race!

29 times!

https://twitter.com/smeajvevo/status/1376249961814327302?s=21

Gaoth Laidir

https://twitter.com/SmeajVEVO/status/1376276443165040643

McFly85

OSI wrote: »

Both Norris and LeClerc have confirmed the drivers were made aware they could cross the line at turn 4, as evidenced by almost the entire field doing so. The narrative shouldn't be "Why was Lewis let away with it", it should be "Why didn't Red Bull cop it and take similar advantage."

The narrative should be “why did the stewards change their mind and start enforcing track limits over halfway through the race”

McFly85

Yeah I don’t think many have an issue with the overtake(but I do agree with Buxtons view that if it’s allowed in one scenario it should be allowed for all).

The stewards clamping down after 30 odd laps makes it sound like the drivers shouldn’t have been doing it. Some drivers were doing it every lap as they were told that it wasn’t being monitored.

The stewards should have just left the drivers to exit the track at turn 4 for the rest of the race. Then it really would have been RBs fault for not understanding they could have been leaving the track at turn 4 too.

They could easily avoid this scenario in future by just agreeing that track limits should always be adhered to where possible.

Inquitus

This could all be sorted by putting really nasty curbs anywhere on the calendar you want track limits to be observed at a corner.

the_pen_turner

Inquitus wrote: »

This could all be sorted by putting really nasty curbs anywhere on the calendar you want track limits to be observed at a corner.

Or one of those bollards that you have to go around if you cut the corner

SureYWouldntYa

Inquitus wrote: »

This could all be sorted by putting really nasty curbs anywhere on the calendar you want track limits to be observed at a corner.

Or a gravel trap, wouldn't damage the car as much but that would stop the cutting quickly enough

Faugheen

OSI wrote: »

Both Norris and LeClerc have confirmed the drivers were made aware they could cross the line at turn 4, as evidenced by almost the entire field doing so. The narrative shouldn't be "Why was Lewis let away with it", it should be "Why didn't Red Bull cop it and take similar advantage."

No no, that type of narrative is not allowed here.

El_Duderino 09

McFly85 wrote: »

Yeah I don’t think many have an issue with the overtake(but I do agree with Buxtons view that if it’s allowed in one scenario it should be allowed for all).

The stewards clamping down after 30 odd laps makes it sound like the drivers shouldn’t have been doing it. Some drivers were doing it every lap as they were told that it wasn’t being monitored.

The stewards should have just left the drivers to exit the track at turn 4 for the rest of the race. Then it really would have been RBs fault for not understanding they could have been leaving the track at turn 4 too.

They could easily avoid this scenario in future by just agreeing that track limits should always be adhered to where possible.

It's even more worrying that the teams appear to be able to influence the rules over the team radio. Max was told that it's ok to go off the tract because Lewis has been doing it all race. A coupe of laps later Lewis got a warning about track limits.

They should set the rules and stick to them. I don't mind if they are allowed to run off the track or not, but it should be consistent. Last year we were complaining in his thread about them implementing the track limit rules, this year we're complaining about them not imposing the rules and then implementing them half way through the race.

I wouldn't have a problem if they put grass or other surface there to penalise the drivers (slippery to lose time or abrasive to wear tyres). And let the driver decide whether they want to go off track or not.

recyclebin

It did look like the stewards were being influenced by Red Bull but it was hilarious to see it biting Reb Bull and Max in the arse later in the race!!!

recyclebin

Four wheels over the white line is considered off the track for an overtake. Curbs should be ignored in this case.

Burkie1203

recyclebin wrote: »

Four wheels over the white line is considered off the track for an overtake. Curbs should be ignored in this case.

But it was a racing line for the rest of the race. Just not the few seconds Max was racing there.

KevRossi

Burkie1203 wrote: »

But it was a racing line for the rest of the race. Just not the few seconds Max was racing there.

It was the racing line for the first half of the race, then the stewards changed it.
They shouldn't be changing stuff like that over the course of the weekend, let alone in the middle of the race.

It's the fault of the stewards we're discussing this rather than discussing how good of a final few laps it was.

Gaoth Laidir

Right, here it is from Michael Masi's mouth. So contrary to Faugheen's claims, not every other car was doing it. Lewis was the only one doing it consistently, which no doubt gave him a lasting advantage with regards to overall race time.

The policing of track limits at Turn 4 was a hot topic throughout the Bahrain Grand Prix race weekend. But despite some question marks over how certain drivers interpreted the rules, FIA Race Director Michael Masi insisted that his guidance to the teams throughout the weekend had been clear.

It was eventual winner Lewis Hamilton who was heard being warned on team radio by his race engineer Pete Bonnington to stop using a line at the exit of Turn 4 which saw his car go beyond the red and white kerb during the race – and which, according to Red Bull Team Principal Christian Horner, would have given Hamilton a 0.2s per lap advantage.

That line had been deemed illegal for practice and qualifying, but according to the Race Directors’ Notes wouldn’t be monitored during the Grand Prix. But speaking after the race, Masi explained why the stewards ended up threatening Hamilton with a black and white flag if he continued using that line.

“With regard to tolerance given with people running outside of the track limits during the race,” said Masi, “it was mentioned very clearly in the [drivers’] meeting and the notes that it would not be monitored with regard to setting the lap time so to speak – but it will always be monitored in according with the Sporting Regulations that a lasting advantage overall must not be gained.

“Nothing changed at all during the race,” he added. “We had two people that were looking in that area at every car at every lap and pretty much every car bar one was doing the right thing within what we expected in a general sequence. There was the occasional car that had a bit of a moment or went out there but it wasn’t a constant thing.”

Masi also responded to questions on why, when Red Bull’s Max Verstappen had passed Hamilton for the lead using the same wide Turn 4 line, he’d had to give the position back to Hamilton – in a move which ensured the seven-time champion won the season opener.

“So it is quite different and clearly specifically different and consistent with both notes and what was mentioned and discussed with drivers in the driver meeting,” said Masi. “If an overtake takes place with a car off track and gains an advantage, a lasting advantage, I will go on the radio and suggest to the team that they immediately relinquish that position, and that was made very clear.

“Red Bull were actually given an instruction immediately by myself that I suggested they relinquish that position as listed in the Sporting Regulations, which they did. It wasn’t for exceeding track limits – it was for gaining a lasting advantage by overtaking another car off the race track.”

Inquitus

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Right, here it is from Michael Masi's mouth. So contrary to Faugheen's claims, not every other car was doing it. Lewis was the only one doing it consistently, which no doubt gave him a lasting advantage with regards to overall race time.

Only it obviously didn't per Masi, as Masi didn't penalise him, you can't have it both ways, lol.

Faugheen

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Right, here it is from Michael Masi's mouth. So contrary to Faugheen's claims, not every other car was doing it. Lewis was the only one doing it consistently, which no doubt gave him a lasting advantage with regards to overall race time.

If it gave him a lasting advantage then why wasn’t he punished?

Seriously, as posted above, you can’t have it both ways.

Gaoth Laidir

So his 30 laps at around 0.2 s per lap didn't add up to an advantage? If it didn't then why tell him to stop?

Gaoth Laidir

Faugheen wrote: »

‘Without justifiable reason’
‘Without gaining a lasting advantage’.

What do you suppose overtaking while off the track does?

What do you suppose going off the track for 29 laps does? You can't have it both ways...

Also, do you now accept that "every single team except Red Bull" were NOT doing that, as you repeatedly claimed yesterday?

Faugheen wrote: »

Again. Mercedes were not allowed to ‘steal’ everything.

Every single team except Red Bull were doing this ‘at the discretion of the race director’. Then they decided to tell Max to start doing it.

Max then went off the track while overtaking therefore ‘gaining a lasting advantage’.

It really is that simple.

Faugheen wrote: »

Why did everybody bar Red Bull do it then?

Faugheen wrote: »

And yet everybody bar Red Bull were doing it.

Funny that

v3ttel

The issue is the greyness of this "lasting advantage" non-sense. They should make it clear. If you have all four wheels, outside the track, then it's two warnings and the next time it's a penalty.

Should you be able to overtake or complete an overtake outside the track? No, absolutely not. I think it was right that Max had to hand it back.

However anyone who takes the stance that Lewis didn't gain a lasting advantage by running well outside the track limits nearly 30 times is just not being genuine. Lewis would not have been out there so repeatedly if he wasn't deeming it to be the fastest line.

The issue is that Lewis has benefited from pushing the boundaries more than anyone else, yet has also benefited from his only rival being penalised for attempting to take the same racing line he did for 1/29 of the time he had the advantage of it. Lewis had the best of both worlds in a race that he won by the skin of his teeth.

Between the strategy, track limit issues and Max's diff issues, he was lucky to escape with the win. I just hope Mercedes don't rock up to Imola in 3 week's time well clear of Red Bull. We need a title fight.

Inquitus

v3ttel wrote: »

The issue is the greyness of this "lasting advantage" non-sense. They should make it clear. If you have all four wheels, outside the track, then it's two warnings and the next time it's a penalty.

Should you be able to overtake or complete an overtake outside the track? No, absolutely not. I think it was right that Max had to hand it back.

However anyone who takes the stance that Lewis didn't gain a lasting advantage by running well outside the track limits nearly 30 times is just not being genuine. Lewis would not have been out there so repeatedly if he wasn't deeming it to be the fastest line.

The issue is that Lewis has benefited from pushing the boundaries more than anyone else, yet has also benefited from his only rival being penalised for attempting to take the same racing line he did for 1/29 of the time he had the advantage of it. Lewis had the best of both worlds in a race that he won by the skin of his teeth.

Between the strategy, track limit issues and Max's diff issues, he was lucky to win it. I just hope Mercedes don't rock up to Imola in 3 week's time well clear of Red Bull. We need a title fight.

Lando said, after the race, that what he took from the race briefing was that turn 4 was fair game and would not be policed. Same was said by a couple of other drivers Will Buxton interviewed.

Gaoth Laidir

Inquitus wrote: »

Lando said, after the race, that what he took from the race briefing was that turn 4 was fair game and would not be policed. Same was said by a couple of other drivers Will Buxton interviewed.

Except that Masi said he had two people policing every car at that corner.

Inquitus

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Except that Masi said he had two people policing every car at that corner.

It seems that Masi and the FIA made a mess of this, from all the accounts I have read and heard, they just need to be much clearer in future so there is no ambiguity.

Gaoth Laidir

Inquitus wrote: »

It seems that Masi and the FIA made a mess of this, from all the accounts I have read and heard, they just need to be much clearer in future so there is no ambiguity.

Absolutely. It's like the VAR fiasco at times.

Burkie1203

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Except that Masi said he had two people policing every car at that corner.

Must have been Toto and Crofty

Frank Bullitt

One thing that really ruined the race for me was Crofts stupid little giggle after every little joke Brundle tells...every.single.time.

I must be the only one on this thread who likes Crofty.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cookie_Monster

Inquitus wrote: »

It seems that Masi and the FIA made a mess of this, from all the accounts I have read and heard, they just need to be much clearer in future so there is no ambiguity.

its not like it is even difficult. there is a white line at the edge of the track and a rule stating you must stay within it. Just enforce it everywhere all the time, no ambiguity. Its such a ****ing stupid problem to have

LollipopJimmy

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I must be the only one on this thread who likes Crofty.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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