Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

https://www.randa.org/en/news/2020/03/covid-19-related-guidance-on-the-rules-of-golf

Scoring in Stroke Play (Rule 3.3b)

In view of concerns around handling and exchanging scorecards (which may be in paper or electronic form as already provided in the Rules), on a temporary basis, Committees may choose to allow methods of scoring in stroke play that do not strictly comply with Rule 3.3b or do not comply with the normal methods used under Rule 3.3b.

For example:

Players may enter their own hole scores on the scorecard (it is not necessary for a marker to do it).
It is not necessary to have a marker physically certify the player’s hole scores, but some form of verbal certification should take place if at all possible.
It is not necessary to physically return a scorecard to the Committee provided the Committee can accept the scores in another way.

RoadRunner wrote: »

I don't like to see 2ball or extra large gaps between groups as part of the discussion surrounding return to golf.



But lets not start the return to golf as being only 2 people allowed per 2 holes or something daft like that.

Why not two balls and sufficient gaps?



The answer is normally we won't get enough out on the course. This however is not true. What's more important is getting golfers around the course, i.e pace of play rather then getting them on the golf course.


So, which is better 2 balls at 8 minutes or 4 balls at 10 minutes? One has about 15 golfers per hour and the other has 24 golfers. At the moment there is about 12.5 hours of usable daylight to play. How many golfers can play in that situation?


The main reason behind slow play is the number of golfers on the course, the more golfers on the course the slower it is. How you control the number of golfers on the course is through starting times. When there is space on the golf course, golfers can move, when there isn't they can't and there is slow play. By having a one hole gap between groups, slow play is generally non existent. The starting gap should be the time it takes to play a hole. A 2 ball will play a par 4 in 8 minutes, 2 balls will play most courses, with minimal walks from green to tee, in 2 1/2 hours.


A 4 ball won't play a hole in 10 minutes, a course will get clogged pretty quickly and long rounds are the result. 10 minute 4 balls on most courses lead to rounds over 4 hours and pushing 5 when a tee sheet is full.


With 12.5 hours daylight, for 2 balls there is up to 10 hours available, which is 150 golfers or so. 150 golfers moving around the course with minimal delays too.


For 4 balls this is 8 hours available, yes this is 192 golfers but a clogged golf course, much longer rounds and constant waits and delays.


Which do you prefer, a round with no waiting or waiting all the time? The evidence for this is very clear from the reopening after the first lockdown, tee times a couple of minutes further apart and golfers reporting that it was only taking 3 hours to play a three ball, as soon as clubs could go back to normal spacing they did and straight away back to clogged courses.


So 2 balls is not daft, further spacing between groups is also not daft. What is daft is not being able to see that decreasing gaps and increasing the size of groups clogs up golf courses and slows down play .


From a virus standpoint, there will be much less interaction between 2 golfers over 2.5 hours, than 4 golfers over 4.5 hours and even with it much less likely to spread outdoors, 2 people is safer than 4 people. The safest way to play golf would be single players only, which shouldn't be dismissed out of hand if it was the only way golf could come back a little earlier.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Why not two balls and sufficient gaps?



The answer is normally we won't get enough out on the course. This however is not true. What's more important is getting golfers around the course, i.e pace of play rather then getting them on the golf course.


So, which is better 2 balls at 8 minutes or 4 balls at 10 minutes? One has about 15 golfers per hour and the other has 24 golfers. At the moment there is about 12.5 hours of usable daylight to play. How many golfers can play in that situation?


The main reason behind slow play is the number of golfers on the course, the more golfers on the course the slower it is. How you control the number of golfers on the course is through starting times. When there is space on the golf course, golfers can move, when there isn't they can't and there is slow play. By having a one hole gap between groups, slow play is generally non existent. The starting gap should be the time it takes to play a hole. A 2 ball will play a par 4 in 8 minutes, 2 balls will play most courses, with minimal walks from green to tee, in 2 1/2 hours.


A 4 ball won't play a hole in 10 minutes, a course will get clogged pretty quickly and long rounds are the result. 10 minute 4 balls on most courses lead to rounds over 4 hours and pushing 5 when a tee sheet is full.


With 12.5 hours daylight, for 2 balls there is up to 10 hours available, which is 150 golfers or so. 150 golfers moving around the course with minimal delays too.


For 4 balls this is 8 hours available, yes this is 192 golfers but a clogged golf course, much longer rounds and constant waits and delays.


Which do you prefer, a round with no waiting or waiting all the time? The evidence for this is very clear from the reopening after the first lockdown, tee times a couple of minutes further apart and golfers reporting that it was only taking 3 hours to play a three ball, as soon as clubs could go back to normal spacing they did and straight away back to clogged courses.


So 2 balls is not daft, further spacing between groups is also not daft. What is daft is not being able to see that decreasing gaps and increasing the size of groups clogs up golf courses and slows down play .


From a virus standpoint, there will be much less interaction between 2 golfers over 2.5 hours, than 4 golfers over 4.5 hours and even with it much less likely to spread outdoors, 2 people is safer than 4 people. The safest way to play golf would be single players only, which shouldn't be dismissed out of hand if it was the only way golf could come back a little earlier.

If your club has a problem with slow play that's their problem to sort out, not everyone else's. Our club was perfectly fine after an initial settling in period after the first lockdown last year. No "clogged course". We want normal golf to return, not some token two ball gesture. Most lads have a regular four ball and from a mental health point of view, they would like to get back to that. If we keep coming up with silly conciliatory suggestions for nphet to take advantage of, we'll never get back to normal.

RGS wrote:

Maybe I wasn't clear--all scores are recorded by the player on the digital scorecard and linked to our club software(Master Scoreboard) and then pushed onto the WHS platform, which is where the handicaps are managed.

Great, but there was a post earlier about some players in competitions never entering their scores. If they won't but their card in a box, I doubt they will go online to do it.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that you want to use golf as a vehicle to meet up with your friends?

My God, perish the thought, someone wanting to meet up with their friends!

What has this pandemic and its resultant fever dream of fear done to people?!

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Why not two balls and sufficient gaps?

If some courses with fewer members want to play 2 balls only, then that's great, and I'd love to join that course too!

Masterscoreboard shows 715 members listed on my course of 18 holes. Our course cannot sustain 2 balls or any other mickey mouse stuff that was insisted on last time. We had to switch to 9 hole x 2 balls to try to sustain the demand.

If we play with fewer clubs or without plastic tees then there's also technically less risk of catching a virus but I don't feel golfers need nphet or the government dictating additional rules to golfers as to how we play. In the great outdoors it doesn't matter whether there's 2 or whether there's 3 people per square kilometre on the course and forced government limits as to how often players can tee off at is tokenism. It's putting caveats on things that aren't measurable and for no point. It's interfering in things just for the sake of it and it's the difference between you playing your first round of golf in 5 months, in beautiful sunshine on a lovely course and you not being able to get out!

ShivasIrons wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that you want to use golf as a vehicle to meet up with your friends?

Not totally but yeah, for me it is a huge part of the golfing experience. I haven't seen my three golfing buddies since last October. If we're gone to the realms of begrudging fourballs between friends, well,I really don't know what to say anymore😒.

opinionated3 wrote: »

Not totally but yeah, for me it is a huge part of the golfing experience. I haven't seen my three golfing buddies since last October. If we're gone to the realms of begrudging fourballs between friends, well,I really don't know what to say anymore��.

I never said there's anything wrong with that, in fact it's one of the great things about golf, the social aspect of it. I'm not begrudging fourballs between friends.



But, if it was the only way that golf was allowed to open up was single play or two balls only, it shouldn't be dismissed as daft or mickey mouse, especially as both are a very common form of play anyway.

ShivasIrons wrote: »

I never said there's anything wrong with that, in fact it's one of the great things about golf, the social aspect of it. I'm not begrudging fourballs between friends.



But, if it was the only way that golf was allowed to open up was single play or two balls only, it shouldn't be dismissed as daft or mickey mouse, especially as both are a very common form of play anyway.

I see your point from a "desperation" view..... As in we're so desperate to get back playing, we would probably accept any terms and conditions at this stage. Personally I would be quite dismissive of it actually. There's no need for it. There is no need for nphet to interfere with the normal functioning of our game. Golf is safe. We know that. So let it open as normal with no silly caveats.

bustercherry wrote: »

Is that what NPHET is doing? Or is the case that golf Ireland advise what is possible based on government policy and guidelines.

I don’t that the lads over at NPHET give much thought on how they can ruin golf for everyone.

Well if that's golf Ireland's advise........ My god 😡😡😡

Last year I thought 2balls meant a very quick round - POSITIVE but the lack of competition meant focus was poor so scores were haphazard - NEGATIVE.

I think in my club having 10 mins between 3balls or 14 between 4balls was quite satisfactory and meant a decent pace of play for all. The grumbling then started over not getting the 8AM tee slot and only getting a slot at 11.20

I think if golf comes back member competitions are more than appropriate and safe to run. The first lockdown showed those measures of no competition to be excessive

lads on here arguing over 2 balls 3 balls 4 balls.. god, its hard to read some of the rubbish.

I was just want to play any sort of golf, which I am now pessimistic that it will happen in April.

RGS wrote: »

The big problem is that sports Ireland take the NPHET recommendations and adapt them for sports.
If NPHET state no more than 2 households can meet outdoors sports Ireland takes that and imposes it on the sports involved.

The re opening in NI on 12 April is subject to the 2 household rule which confirms golf Ireland have not been able to amend the rules. It allows 2 balls every 8 minutes.


Given the NI return date and rules I now believe we will reopen golf on the 12th with the same rule.

Northern ireland isn't 2 balls. its 2 households( could mean a family of 4 playing together

AnBeagalltach wrote: »

It’s easy to say that but the reality is that in a club with anything over 600 members , 2 balls is the exact same as no golf for many constrained to weekend only play. Especially with the pent up demand

For gods sake people would gladly take one round of golf a week at the moment no matter what form it takes.....