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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #7562
    Golfman64
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 314 ✭✭Golfman64


    Arghus wrote: »
    The briefings came into being at a time when nobody had a clue what was going on, everybody was anxious and fearful and the number one concern was to get basic information out to people about what to do, what was happening as regards the progression of the disease.

    It made sense to hear about at the time from people who had expertise, from a body that was set up explicitly to deal with the public health emergency that was taking place.

    There was no coherence or message from government beyond how to get beyond the first initial phase. It was just a case of getting through it. Politics effectively stopped for a period - the opposition disappeared, the issue of FG being effectively a caretaker government didn't matter anymore for a while. Nobody wanted to hear from politicians and politicians were happy enough not be heard.

    The government had no problem letting NPHET become the figureheads because, at the time, they had no difference of ideas from NPHET and taking about the public health crisis in depth and detail was way beyond their capabilities.

    Effectively it was a case of - you've been set up to deal with this, you're the experts, we don't know what to say or what we're talking about and people seem happy enough to hear it from you - so off you go.

    As time went on the politicians were more distracted trying to put a government together, so it was grand from their perspective to let NPHET hold the fort in front of the media and hopefully by the time the crisis had passed there'd be a new government in place and the crisis would be over and everyone would be mighty pleased with themselves. But it hasn't turned out like that.

    I really don't know what the likes of Donnelly or Martin would bring to an average NPHET briefing. Any time any government Minister is on stage with either Holahan or Glynn it's obvious that they are out of their depth talking with any authority or semblance of understanding - and spend a lot of their time asking the CMO to bail them out when faced with a difficult question.

    I think Glynn has been doing sterling work over the last few weeks talking in front of the media. He's articulate, knowledgeable, patient, empathetic. He tries his damdest to explain the rationale behind everything.

    The main problem as I see it between the briefings is that they make the gulf in competence, knowledge and even basic communication skills between our politicians and the public health experts painfully clear.

    A lot of the issue that people have with their continued presence in the public eye is pretty simple: they aren't telling people what they want to hear.

    In general, I do actually feel that Glynn does a good job and is better equipped to answer questions in a calm manner and for the most part displays empathy and understanding.

    However, the root of the current problems, I believe, is the continued lack of a balanced and nuanced approach to restrictions combined with growing public impatience with the egotistical and slow moving incompetence displayed amidst public bodies from Government through to NPHET.

    On the restrictions front, they still wheel out the ‘ we are seeing increased mobility’ line. Sorry lads, treat us with a little more respect. It’s not mobility that the problem - it’s the types and confines of interactions. Is golf safe? Is tennis safe? Is a walk in a park or on a beach 10km away really not safe? There are many other safe activities that can be implemented and are proven to be safe in many other countries. Now is the time for nuance to ensure public buy in to those measures that are necessary to continue for a period of months until we have a wider vaccine roll out. But to continue with the sledgehammer approach is losing all manner of adherence and buy in from the general public.

    Secondly the farce that was the delay and subsequent yet unsurprising restart of the AZ vaccine this week. The EMA at all times this week continued to communicate that the vaccine was safe and that any risks were far out weighed by the benefits of continuing vaccination unabated. Yet our public bodies decided that they know better and risked the lives of those whose vaccines were cancelled by going against a European agencies advise. Then, and even worse in my opinion, when a re-iteration of the vaccines safety was provided yesterday it took over 24 hours before our national bodies declared that we could continue the vaccination program. And it will be even longer until actual vaccinations restart. To think we had to run this through NIAC, HPRA, NPHET, the Minister for Health and then the HSE before we could even start planning to re-vaccinate shows just how bloated and inefficient the current public health system really is. These tax payer funded bodies acting at such a glacial pace with seemingly little understanding of the dire situation many individuals find themselves in at the current time only serves to further infuriate the general public, many of whom are relying on a fast vaccine roll out for their livelihoods.


  • #7563
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    NPHET do have a responsibility themselves not to become the fall guy.

    They can be more streetwise

    I can imagine if a crisis ever arose that the nation needed advice on repairing an old tractor and asked me to address the nation I would be fully confident I could advise the nation from my past experience.

    However just like NPHET are medical experts , this wasn’t just a medical crisis, it was a magnitude of issues to balance and take responsibility for like medical, social and economic.

    It’s almost implied NPHET are responsible for public health, which is not something I’d want to be associated with when there is tens of thousands of undiagnosed cancers awaiting in the near future

    So if I was NPHET, I’d be dropping MM and Donnelly in it rather quickly

    Easiest solution when asked certain questions is to direct the journalist to ask xyz minister etc...
    I mean the questions they get asked.... say about weddings or hairdressers, NPHET have zero control over that. They could recommend they open, Government can say no, they recommend they stay closed, Government can say no. Power lies with Government, but they are completely out of their depth. No messaging, no reassurance, nothing.

    I know how it will go, FG will blame FF, FF will blame NPHET and I dunno, NPHET will blame (that's a harsh word) the public.

    I just feel, I've be fine so far, after Christmas I was extremely worried about how it was going with the case numbers etc... Now we have (still have) a silent Government and a bad wave encompassing Europe. It's very hard to see any sort of positives lately. (I know hospitals/ICU/Deaths are on a good trend, but it's all under a lockdown, which shows now sign of easing at all)


  • #7564
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,801 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Faugheen wrote: »
    And the reason they don’t drop them in it is because it will lead to the exact same rhetoric we constantly hear about a NPHET power grab.

    Well if a team of 39 highly educated professionals can’t protect themselves there is only one way this will go.

    Every other health issue postponed due to Covid will be blamed on them


  • #7565
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Deleted User wrote: »


    It doesn't have to be a lie. It can be a subtle shift in focus. Less of the tendency to lecture and tone deaf contributors. Perhaps even to make reference to their own personal struggles with Covid.

    Anyone who has children understands the importance of balancing keeping them safe and secure but also allowing them to explore their world and take risks. The restrictions are stifling us, suffocating us, our "parents" are over protective and anxious. We are soaking that up.

    I was speaking to someone recently who is terrified of looking for a new place to live as she thinks it's just a bad idea during Covid.
    Terrified though. So she remains in an environment that isn't healthy and wishes she could be elsewhere but also feels paralysed because "what if I die".


    source.gif



    And that - for me anyway - is the post of the week right there


  • #7566
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,801 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Easiest solution when asked certain questions is to direct the journalist to ask xyz minister etc...
    I mean the questions they get asked.... say about weddings or hairdressers, NPHET have zero control over that. They could recommend they open, Government can say no, they recommend they stay closed, Government can say no. Power lies with Government, but they are completely out of their depth. No messaging, no reassurance, nothing.

    I know how it will go, FG will blame FF, FF will blame NPHET and I dunno, NPHET will blame (that's a harsh word) the public.

    I just feel, I've be fine so far, after Christmas I was extremely worried about how it was going with the case numbers etc... Now we have (still have) a silent Government and a bad wave encompassing Europe. It's very hard to see any sort of positives lately. (I know hospitals/ICU/Deaths are on a good trend, but it's all under a lockdown, which shows now sign of easing at all)

    This is where the argument starts

    Regardless of the questions they are asked

    NPHET have control over their own destiny

    They can remove themselves from the public broadcasts and just hand the government weekly recommendations


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  • #7567
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Well if a team of 39 highly educated professionals can’t protect themselves there is only one way this will go.

    Every other health issue postponed due to Covid will be blamed on them

    They can protect themselves.

    They can't protect themselves and the government hiding behind them, however.


  • #7568
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,804 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Whenever I want to respond to a post it's when I have my phone instead of laptop.
    So apologies for quoting all your post.

    I agree with everything you say but only partly with your last paragraph Arghus. As humans we will turn towards what comforts us during troubling times. This sometimes means engaging in mental gymnastics.

    A really simple example is telling ourselves that one more drink won't make a difference. I think the feeling towards NPHET is more complicated than that however.

    At first they were our guides. Like you say we were anxious and we were rudderless. A year is a long time when dealing trauma, which is what this is. We have been given hope and had it taken away continuously. I'm not saying that to blame because I genuinely believe the powers that be are at sea.

    They are certainly a handy target for misplaced anger. That was evident today with the abuse Ronan Glynn received. Unconsciously people were not angry at him. He is just a person too. The restrictions impact him as well. I just believe that people are looking for more than "everything will be ok our work here is done".

    Hope is a kind of wooly concept for some but in very stark terms it can be the difference between wanting to live and wanting to die. That's what we need from NPHET and our Government.

    It doesn't have to be a lie. It can be a subtle shift in focus. Less of the tendency to lecture and tone deaf contributors. Perhaps even to make reference to their own personal struggles with Covid.

    Anyone who has children understands the importance of balancing keeping them safe and secure but also allowing them to explore their world and take risks. The restrictions are stifling us, suffocating us, our "parents" are over protective and anxious. We are soaking that up.

    I was speaking to someone recently who is terrified of looking for a new place to live as she thinks it's just a bad idea during Covid.
    Terrified though. So she remains in an environment that isn't healthy and wishes she could be elsewhere but also feels paralysed because "what if I die".

    Great post, Diamonds .

    I think fear of Covid and fear of dying is not totally irrational though .
    It depends on each individual and their risk factors and level of tolerance for stress .

    I am normally the calmest, chatty laid back person,sleep like a log , can nap at the drop of a hat .
    I was afraid for much of last year that I would get it at work and die , and had to try to rationalise that fear before I went back in for a stint after a few days off .
    But that fear was based on the reality I was facing , as an older nurse working with very sick Covid patients and with two underlying , at risk conditions and seeing how bad this was/ is for people like me.
    I couldn't sleep through the night for months and was angry and exhausted .
    I was fighting with everyone at home , at work and here as some can testify :)
    In fairness also , my husband had major surgery for cancer and my son was very sick earlier so it was a bad year all round
    The science was the only thing I felt helped me control the anxiety so I could function knowing that if I did x,y and z I would be ok .
    And venting here !
    And then the vaccines came .
    Now next step is my husbands vaccination and my children's .

    I can't move beyond that yet but I can sleep now .
    I know where my next point on my personal map is .

    People need a plan/ map out of this , whether it is couched in language like depending on case numbers ,vaccinations or hospitalisations .
    Our government are to blame.
    They should be proactively getting that message out there , and at the risk of upsetting Arghus , because I know Boris is a twat, but they need to be like Boris with that message which is a relief to so many people over in the UK ,whether they get to follow it to the letter or not
    We need that . Now .

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  • #7569
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,801 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Faugheen wrote: »
    They can protect themselves.

    They can't protect themselves and the government hiding behind them, however.

    That’s my point.

    They can protect themselves while handing over responsibility to the government hiding behind them.

    That may well be the only way out of this crisis


  • #7570
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,956 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    This is where the argument starts

    Regardless of the questions they are asked

    NPHET have control over their own destiny

    They can remove themselves from the public broadcasts and just hand the government weekly recommendations

    That is absolutely what should happen 100%


  • #7571
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    This is where the argument starts

    Regardless of the questions they are asked

    NPHET have control over their own destiny

    They can remove themselves from the public broadcasts and just hand the government weekly recommendations

    They do serve a purpose in the bi-weekly press conferences. What they should be doing is giving the public that briefing and directing any media questions to Government. Most reporters are just looking for that explosive quote taking out of context. We've all seen it happen. Which is why Glynn at times, answers the question as painfully slow and cautious as possible, otherwise the reporter gets the wrong end of the stick.


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  • #7572
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Deleted User wrote: »

    It doesn't have to be a lie. It can be a subtle shift in focus. Less of the tendency to lecture and tone deaf contributors. Perhaps even to make reference to their own personal struggles with Covid.

    Anyone who has children understands the importance of balancing keeping them safe and secure but also allowing them to explore their world and take risks. The restrictions are stifling us, suffocating us, our "parents" are over protective and anxious. We are soaking that up.

    I don't disagree with a lot of what you have to say.

    Personally I don't find Glynn or Nolan to be lecturing or overbearing. Both do acknowledge quite a lot that people have and continue to make enormous sacrifices. It's increasingly a bigger part of Glynn's responses. But they also have a duty to advise people against doing things that from a public health perspective aren't advisable. I don't know how that can be made more palatable for people - I think it's just inherently unpalatable.

    Yesterday's main message was: look everyone is tired as shít, but we really have to just keep going for another 4-6 weeks and then, hopefully, we'll be in a much better place thanks to increased vaccination.

    Now, a lot might scoff at the notion of 4-6 weeks, but that was Glynn trying to present a goal to work towards for people, something semi-tangible and hopeful. I regard that as an optimistic message, but so many people heard the negativity - or what they perceived to be negativity - elsewhere. I find that strange, personally.

    I also think that there's a fundamental difference in how I view restrictions compared to many others who post here. I regard them as a symptom of what is happening, not the cause. They only exist because of the threat posed by the pandemic. We are stifled by restrictions, but, as punative and as damaging as they are, its the pandemic itself that is essentially what is stifling us - they aren't the root cause of our misery.


  • #7573
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,804 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Well if a team of 39 highly educated professionals can’t protect themselves there is only one way this will go.

    Every other health issue postponed due to Covid will be blamed on them

    In normal circumstances there would be a how to act in a press conference guide , ,what questions to refer to government , which public health agency is responsible for this area.

    None of the usual rules apply and government are taking the pvss ,allowing public servants however knowledgeable and responsible take so much on themselves .
    Somebody needs to say no , ask the MoH or Taoiseach .

    And no , they won't be blamed , every country is in the same position .
    There is no choice and saying there is is just getting back into the aul " there's no such thing as Covid " rhetoric .

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  • #7574
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,801 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    That is absolutely what should happen 100%

    I’ve been NPHET’s loudest critique.

    But I was wrong

    They were given a specific job, that they continue to do, without realising the associated costs.

    Now they have had bad days, but now it’s becoming evident

    They are going to be held responsible for associated health costs of lockdown despite most of it being a political issue, that no political associates can be responsible for


  • #7575
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    I don't disagree with a lot of what you have to say.

    Personally I don't find Glynn or Nolan to be lecturing or overbearing. Both do acknowledge quite a lot that people have and continue to make enormous sacrifices. It's increasingly a bigger part of Glynn's responses. But they also have a duty to advise people against doing things that from a public health perspective aren't advisable. I don't know how that can be made more palatable for people - I think it's just inherently unpalatable.

    Yesterday's main message was: look everyone is tired as shít, but we really have to just keep going for another 4-6 weeks and then, hopefully, we'll be in a much better place thanks to increased vaccination.

    Now, a lot might scoff at the notion of 4-6 weeks, but that was Glynn trying to present a goal to work towards for people, something semi-tangible and hopeful. I regard that as an optimistic message, but so many people heard the negativity - or what they perceived to be negativity - elsewhere. I find that strange, personally.

    I also think that there's a fundamental difference in how I view restrictions compared to many others who post here. I regard them as a symptom of what is happening, not the cause. They only exist because of the threat posed by the pandemic. We are stifled by restrictions, but, as punative and as damaging as they are its the pandemic itself that is essentially what is stifling us - they aren't the root cause of our misery.
    You find it strange that people took it negatively because you don't realise that people no longer believe a word they're saying. 4-6 weeks means nothing anymore, even less so given its being said by the deputy CMO in a press conference, not an official government announcement. Its just yet another throwaway comment with an arbitrary period of time attached to it with zero accompanying details to join the countless other throwaway comments we've gotten (few of which align) over the past few months.


    Ultimately people want a plan - something to works towards. How about some actual metrics, transparency? The country is at its highest level of lockdown, and will be for over 3 months and its citizens actually do not know what is required for it to end. That's unacceptable.


  • #7576
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    But I was wrong


    We need that sentence typed more around here

    Absolutely all of us are just making our best judgements as best we can and using Boards as a soundboard/place to vent/a distraction during a horrendous time in history

    We're not always right. Myself included

    Fair play Fintan


  • #7577
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,801 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    In normal circumstances there would be a how to act in a press conference guide , ,what questions to refer to government , which public health agency is responsible for this area.

    None of the usual rules apply and government are taking the pvss ,allowing public servants however knowledgeable and responsible take so much on themselves .
    Somebody needs to say no , ask the MoH or Taoiseach .

    And no , they won't be blamed , every country is in the same position .
    There is no choice and saying there is is just getting back into the aul " there's no such thing as Covid " rhetoric .

    We are back to the disagreement which makes us more comfortable associates!

    Do you not think MM and Leo will say they only followed the medical advice they were given at the time when questioned on any part of associated lockdown costs?

    They are completely absolved here!

    No matter what crisis unfolds due to the cancellation of cancer screening etc or economic costs!

    That can always say they only followed the advise made public by NPHET who were better informed


  • #7578
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I’ve been NPHET’s loudest critique.

    But I was wrong

    They were given a specific job, that they continue to do, without realising the associated costs.

    Now they have had bad days, but now it’s becoming evident

    They are going to be held responsible for associated health costs of lockdown despite most of it being a political issue, that no political associates can be responsible for

    There is a paper trail. All letters from NPHET to Government are public record.
    There's so many blaming NPHET for:
    Lack of backwards (before 48hrs) contact tracing
    Restrictions on inwards travel
    Easing of both hospitality & household visits together in December.

    All 3 above have been concerns of NPHET and they have been on record with the Government expressing those concerns.

    On the issue of Rapid testing, the Government don't need NPHETS's permission to roll it out. I fell as others have pointed out recently, the Government are just to ****ing toothless to do anything outside the box. They need a fall guy, someone to blame (NPHET), but all the records will point to the Government.

    You know the next election, it will be FG bashing FF for not listening to NPHET, despite FG being at the table, but people will drop that to side with FG to punish FF (both deserve a hammering, but a mainly 2 party system, it can be the public who suffers) But that's a little further ahead in the grand scheme of things.


  • #7579
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,804 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Arghus wrote: »
    I don't disagree with a lot of what you have to say.

    Personally I don't find Glynn or Nolan to be lecturing or overbearing. Both do acknowledge quite a lot that people have and continue to make enormous sacrifices. It's increasingly a bigger part of Glynn's responses. But they also have a duty to advise people against doing things that from a public health perspective aren't advisable. I don't know how that can be made more palatable for people - I think it's just inherently unpalatable.

    Yesterday's main message was: look everyone is tired as shít, but we really have to just keep going for another 4-6 weeks and then, hopefully, we'll be in a much better place thanks to increased vaccination.

    Now, a lot might scoff at the notion of 4-6 weeks, but that was Glynn trying to present a goal to work towards for people, something semi-tangible and hopeful. I regard that as an optimistic message, but so many people heard the negativity - or what they perceived to be negativity - elsewhere. I find that strange, personally.

    I also think that there's a fundamental difference in how I view restrictions compared to many others who post here. I regard them as a symptom of what is happening, not the cause. They only exist because of the threat posed by the pandemic. We are stifled by restrictions, but, as punative and as damaging as they are, its the pandemic itself that is essentially what is stifling us - they aren't the root cause of our misery.

    All of this is true.
    But it is the government inaction and lack of some sort of roadmap that just drags everything and everybody down .
    I really want to know what might happen on April 5th and again in May , and June , not so I can plan house parties or holidays abroad , although some will want to do that, I know .
    But it's just to have some end point to draw a line under this phase .
    I will survive and carry on regardless but I would be just a little more reconciled .

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  • #7580
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,804 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I’ve been NPHET’s loudest critique.

    But I was wrong

    They were given a specific job, that they continue to do, without realising the associated costs.

    Now they have had bad days, but now it’s becoming evident

    They are going to be held responsible for associated health costs of lockdown despite most of it being a political issue, that no political associates can be responsible for

    Hallelujah Fintan;)

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  • #7581
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    AdamD wrote: »
    You find it strange that people took it negatively because you don't realise that people no longer believe a word they're saying. 4-6 weeks means nothing anymore, even less so given its being said by the deputy CMO in a press conference, not an official government announcement. Its just yet another throwaway comment with an arbitrary period of time attached to it with zero accompanying details to join the countless other throwaway comments we've gotten (few of which align) over the past few months.


    Ultimately people want a plan - something to works towards. How about some actual metrics, transparency? The country is at its highest level of lockdown, and will be for over 3 months and its citizens actually do not know what is required for it to end. That's unacceptable.

    Like it or not what Glynn had to say yesterday about that "4-6 weeks" is probably the most tangible thing that anyone can hang their hat on at the moment.

    Everything is dependent on a number of factors that are currently unknown and some are outside our control.

    What's the amount of cases that would allow sectors of society to reopen in a sustainable way - unknown.

    What amount of vaccines can we absolutely be 100% certain of to have arrived in the next few weeks - unknown.

    What sectors of society can be opened up to avoid a new surge in cases - unknown.

    There's so much uncertainty in many different ways. The citizens don't know what is required for it to end because nobody does, whether that be government or NPHET.

    People say they want more transparency, but, yet also say they don't want NPHET to appear in public either. Doesn't sound much more transparent to me.


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  • #7582
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    Like it or not what Glynn had to say yesterday about that "4-6 weeks" is probably the most tangible thing that anyone can hang their hat on at the moment.

    Everything is dependent on a number of factors that are currently unknown and some are outside our control.

    What's the amount of cases that would allow sectors of society to reopen in a sustainable way - unknown.

    What amount of vaccines can we absolutely be 100% certain of to have arrived in the next few weeks - unknown.

    What sectors of society can be opened up to avoid a new surge in cases - unknown.

    There's so much uncertainty in many different ways.

    People say they want more transparency, but, yet also say they don't want NPHET to appear in public either. Doesn't sound much more transparent to me.
    I would wager most people want a plan with actual metrics which can be tracked and assessed, whereas a handful of people on this thread don't want NPHET to appear in public. Not exactly comparable.


  • #7583
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,804 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    We are back to the disagreement which makes us more comfortable associates!

    Do you not think MM and Leo will say they only followed the medical advice they were given at the time when questioned on any part of associated lockdown costs?

    They are completely absolved here!

    No matter what crisis unfolds due to the cancellation of cancer screening etc or economic costs!

    That can always say they only followed the advise made public by NPHET who were better informed

    Yes . I AGREE WITH YOU ! :pac:

    But my point is no body will be blamed or found negligent anywhere in the world as all bets are off in a pandemic.
    Even the likes of Trump and Bolsonaro and yes,Tegnell, are untouchable because of this . No rule book so no rules apply .
    Its not comfortable I know ;)

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  • #7584
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    AdamD wrote: »
    I would wager most people want a plan with actual metrics which can be tracked and assessed, whereas a handful of people on this thread don't want NPHET to appear in public. Not exactly comparable.

    I too would love a plan that can be tracked and assessed, but I'm under no illusions that is very difficult to produce at the moment.


  • #7585
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    All of this is true.
    But it is the government inaction and lack of some sort of roadmap that just drags everything and everybody down .
    I really want to know what might happen on April 5th and again in May , and June , not so I can plan house parties or holidays abroad , although some will want to do that, I know .
    But it's just to have some end point to draw a line under this phase .
    I will survive and carry on regardless but I would be just a little more reconciled .

    We were told vaccine's are the light at the end of the tunnel, and they are ultimately. But it's like the government's lack of messaging or even worse they contradictions depending on what minister is quoted is causing most anxiety.
    The messaging from NPHET is ULTRA cautious, which I get, but the Governments messaging has been..... absolutely silent.

    As much as people make fun of Simon Harris for the Covid 18 jab.... he was always out in front with NPHET and kept people up to date and together and hopeful. Taking questions from kids on twitter etc... Imagine Donnelly doing that, he's scare the **** outta the kids.

    We are in a crisis and we don't have leaders or anyone to inspire us.
    A lot of people give out about the UK boasting about vaccines etc... but at least they have a leader (I won't get into Boris being a good or bad leader or his faults through the pandemic) but someone people can get behind etc... We need a ****ing moral boost!

    Open some restaurants for a weekend for HCW's that have been vaccinated and let the public enjoy a tiny reward from them, while we get to see what a normal life can be.


  • #7586
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    AdamD wrote: »
    I would wager most people want a plan with actual metrics which can be tracked and assessed, whereas a handful of people on this thread don't want NPHET to appear in public. Not exactly comparable.

    Metrics never work, but we need a path.
    Like getting rid of the 5km limit, maybe meet outdoors socially is the next goal.
    These seem the biggest issues for people and I think the biggest moral boost we can get.

    We're told by NPHET to hold firm.... but they cannot really say hold firm and in a few weeks we can meet up outside, that's the Governments decision.
    That's the issue here, lack of Government direction. We get the same messaging from NPHET, that's their job. Government need to be more in touch with the public. They are absent and silent.


  • #7587
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,801 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Arghus wrote: »
    I too would love a plan that can be tracked and assessed, but I'm under no illusions that is very difficult to produce at the moment.

    Why is it difficult now to produce a regional plan that can be tracked and accessed now Argus?


  • #7588
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Arghus wrote: »
    The main problem as I see it between the briefings is that they make the gulf in competence, knowledge and even basic communication skills between our politicians and the public health experts painfully clear.

    A lot of the issue that people have with their continued presence in the public eye is pretty simple: they aren't telling people what they want to hear.

    I particularly dislike the media element of the briefings - a lot of time is spent answering pretty basic questions, and the reporters don't often ask the "right" or "important" questions.

    To give an example of what I mean, let's say there is a new vaccine approved and you might want to hear when it's going to be administered. What will the journalists ask? "Why aren't hairdressers in Ballysomewhere allowed to open?" or something similar. And then the headlines will be something completely over the top, and no-one actually hears anything about the vaccine.

    I feel like the briefings make the media complacent - they have a forum in which they can ask questions about anything, whether it's relevant to what was being said or not - that means they don't have to do any actual investigative journalism or reporting, since they can just ask NPHET and then twist that to a story.


  • #7589
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Why is it difficult now to produce a regional plan that can be tracked and accessed now Argus?

    Because of all those unknowns I have already spoken about.


  • #7590
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Polar101 wrote: »
    I particularly dislike the media element of the briefings - a lot of time is spent answering pretty basic questions, and the reporters don't often ask the "right" or "important" questions.

    To give an example of what I mean, let's say there is a new vaccine approved and you might want to hear when it's going to be administered. What will the journalists ask? "Why aren't hairdressers in Ballysomewhere allowed to open?" or something similar. And then the headlines will be something completely over the top, and no-one actually hears anything about the vaccine.

    I feel like the briefings make the media complacent - they have a forum in which they can ask questions about anything, whether it's relevant to what was being said or not - that means they don't have to do any actual investigative journalism or reporting, since they can just ask NPHET and then twist that to a story.

    The media at the briefings are a mixed bag.

    Fergal Bowers is usually good and Paul Cullen asks good pointed questions, he's definitely not a cheerleader - it helps that both of those reporters are health correspondents. Richard Chambers, Simon Carswell have their moments.

    Some of the journalists are useless.

    George Lee is consistently hysterical - and not in the good way. Zara King asks incredibly inane questions. There's a newish one from the Indo - Gabja something - who asks stupidly obvious things or things that can't be answered ("what's the exact date we'll have herd immunity?"), mostly is only fishing for a juicy quote and often has to have explanations explained to her twice.


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  • #7591
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Why is it difficult now to produce a regional plan that can be tracked and accessed now Argus?

    It's easier to trot out vague excuses and keep the general public in the dark than be held in any way accountable. One may chirrup about unknowns, I deem it cowardly when half a million people are still denied gainful employment after several months.


This discussion has been closed.
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