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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #7292
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭Russman


    Monster249 wrote: »
    I should have clarified my initial question. I'm not against lockdowns and actually believe they work when used appropriately. The problem that we have now is that we've used them to death and now face the risk of using them long-passed their useful lifespan.

    More and more people are not adhering and this will only get worse as the weather improves, cases won't get any lower than they are now. The answer to this isn't longer restrictions yet that's exactly what I feel is going to happen.

    My question was more-so aimed at individuals who are supporting a continuous lockdown passed Easter & beyond based on current case numbers. I believe we're at a balance point now where any prolonging of the current restrictions passed Easter are doing more harm than good in the context of the bigger picture. It literally scares me that people don't realize that and are quite happy to go with further lockdowns at this point. It would make you truly fear the zombified attitude towards figures of authority.

    I don't disagree, and I'm genuinely wondering rather than having a go, what do we do if we open too early and cases and subsequent hospitalisations, do indeed surge before we have enough vaccinated ?
    Honestly I don't know what good options any government have. Its all very well to give out (not you specifically) about authoritarian rules, NPHET this, NPHET that, economy etc., but if it got to the point of overwhelming the hospitals, where do we go with it ?


  • #7293
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    Russman wrote: »
    I don't disagree, and I'm genuinely wondering rather than having a go, what do we do if we open too early and cases and subsequent hospitalisations, do indeed surge before we have enough vaccinated ?
    Honestly I don't know what good options any government have. Its all very well to give out (not you specifically) about authoritarian rules, NPHET this, NPHET that, economy etc., but if it got to the point of overwhelming the hospitals, where do we go with it ?

    What we do is accept that a level of death will occur but proceed on the basis that the cost-benefit is still in favour of opening up.

    It's not reasonable to expect the country to be locked down for 7 months while they trod along with their poor vaccine roll-out (irrespective of the cause of the delay). We have to 'live with Covid' and that means accepting that a level of death will occur and we cannot sacrifice everything (from an economic & social perspective) in some heroic attempt to reduce that level.


  • #7294
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    It bothers me because the 4 parks within 5kms are jam packed .I could walk on a near empty beach in peace if they lift it .


    Just go if you want to go. The 5km limit is a joke.


  • #7295
    Rebelbrowser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    JRant wrote: »
    You're assuming an appropriate test and trace system is in place when it's clearly not. What difference does it make where someone think they caught it if there are no measures in place to accurately track it back to source. I mean, it looks great on paper but unless it's implemented properly and has a real benefit then what is the point. If we are to believe NPHET it's mostly household transmission anyway.

    Ringing a doctor with a mild temp or cough seems to me a complete waste of resources as well.

    Why does wider society need my medical information anyway, particularly if it's extremely mild? The only trend is severe restrictions followed by lockdowns anyway. I'll go back to an earlier question, what difference does it make?

    Do you live with people? If so, absent a negative test, they also need to quarantine. Thus, if you had kids, if you get covid symptoms and don't get tested, those kids have to stay out of school for the bones of two weeks. If not, you risk them getting it and spreading to many. So no, getting a test is pretty important. If you live on your own and lockdown fully for two weeks or whatever upon getting symptoms (including not even going to the shop) then I suppose that's fine. But why not get a test to see if there is any need to do that?


  • #7296
    Rebelbrowser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    Monster249 wrote: »
    What we do is accept that a level of death will occur but proceed on the basis that the cost-benefit is still in favour of opening up.

    It's not reasonable to expect the country to be locked down for 7 months while they trod along with their poor vaccine roll-out (irrespective of the cause of the delay). We have to 'live with Covid' and that means accepting that a level of death will occur and we cannot sacrifice everything (from an economic & social perspective) in some heroic attempt to reduce that level.

    Correct. But at what level? All for opening up a bit but if we get exponential rises again (like Jan) we will need to close again. Unchecked, such exponential growth could lead to many thousands of deaths. That's not an acceptable level for anyone I'd have thought. Hopefully won't arise though if we largely pivot to outdoor living for the next 6 months or so.


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  • #7297
    Monster249
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Monster249


    Rebelbrowser wrote: »
    Correct. But at what level? All for opening up a bit but if we get exponential rises again (like Jan) we will need to close again. Unchecked, such exponential growth could lead to many thousands of deaths. That's not an acceptable level for anyone I'd have thought. Hopefully won't arise though if we largely pivot to outdoor living for the next 6 months or so.

    Yeah and I'd agree with that outlook if we didn't have vaccines. They already have many vulnerable vaccinated and will have most if not all the vulnerable done within the next month or two so what happened at Christmas won't happen again.


  • #7298
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The 5km is the one killing me too... Cobh island sucks for lockdown... there is no difference really between 2km for me and 5km because most of it is in Cork Harbour, and although land at the other side of the harbour is within my 5km, the bridge off the island and the route to there is > 5km.

    Increase it to 7km and I can go to about 3 times as many places.


  • #7299
    Rebelbrowser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭Rebelbrowser


    Interesting article in the Guardian...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/mar/19/revealed-the-data-that-shows-how-covid-bounced-back-after-the-uks-lockdowns


  • #7300
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭Russman


    Monster249 wrote: »
    What we do is accept that a level of death will occur but proceed on the basis that the cost-benefit is still in favour of opening up.

    It's not reasonable to expect the country to be locked down for 7 months while they trod along with their poor vaccine roll-out (irrespective of the cause of the delay). We have to 'live with Covid' and that means accepting that a level of death will occur and we cannot sacrifice everything (from an economic & social perspective) in some heroic attempt to reduce that level.

    Of course there are going to be deaths nobody denies that.
    So do we limit the number of COVID patients we admit to hospital or ICU and keep a percentage free for non COVID issues ? or do we potentially tell Joe who's had a heart attack that he's too late the beds are all full of COVID patients ?
    Just like we can't stay locked down forever, the system can't operate at surge capacity forever.

    Who gets to decide what the cost/benefit analysis is ?


  • #7301
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm on phone. Let me see can I attach a screenshot.

    Thank you.

    I disagree with your interpretation of what is meant by what's in that report.

    They are outlining a scenario where potentially Covid AND other respiratory illnesses - common cold etc - could be circulation simultaneously next Winter - that's why they refer to a double pressure on the health service. They aren't talking about a regular cold and flu season.

    It's a possibility it could happen - they're just stating that. They aren't claiming that it absolutely will and they certainly aren't saying that restrictions etc will be in place if it were a normal cold and flu season.


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  • #7302
    OwenM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭OwenM


    Arghus wrote: »
    Thank you.

    I disagree with your interpretation of what is meant by what's in that report.

    They are outlining a scenario where potentially Covid AND other respiratory illnesses - common cold etc - could be circulation simultaneously next Winter - that's why they refer to a double pressure on the health service. They aren't talking about a regular cold and flu season.

    It's a possibility it could happen - they're just stating that. They aren't claiming that it absolutely will and they certainly aren't saying that restrictions etc will be in place if it were a normal cold and flu season.

    Yeah but we don't have mutually exclusive cohorts of the population that can catch either flu or covid. Ok some people might have been vaccinated for one and not the other but if you are vulnerable to one then you are vulnerable to the other, why would you not get both?


  • #7303
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    The 5km is the one killing me too... Cobh island sucks for lockdown... there is no difference really between 2km for me and 5km because most of it is in Cork Harbour, and although land at the other side of the harbour is within my 5km, the bridge off the island and the route to there is > 5km.

    Increase it to 7km and I can go to about 3 times as many places.


    If there was ever a time to consider buying a boat it's now. Just saying :)


  • #7304
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    The 5km is the one killing me too... Cobh island sucks for lockdown... there is no difference really between 2km for me and 5km because most of it is in Cork Harbour, and although land at the other side of the harbour is within my 5km, the bridge off the island and the route to there is > 5km.

    Increase it to 7km and I can go to about 3 times as many places.

    Jaysus 5km/7km who cares.


  • #7305
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    I'm not sure why someone at a BLM protest would stand up and claim that masks reduce oxygen uptake and cause low IQ in children, but if they were part of any medical group, I would equally expect them to be ejected. It's not about where she said it, it's about what she said.

    look I've no skin in the game either way Seamus but look at her CV ok, just on the face of it. I would have to ask why people like this, along with the DR Martin Feelys in Ireland and indeed many the world over, are suddenly abandoning the science that has served them for decades and joining splinter groups of anti lizard people? or is that really the case? Half of NPHET are young and have much less experience of evidence based medicine and though I accept all the accolades that came after, Ronan started life as a physio. Some have a very commercial interest in either PCR or indeed Vaccines. Luke O Neil had a grant from MTV given to him for over 10K, so the epidemic has been good to some. Much as I don't believe stains and O'Neil are zero covid and vaccine pushers, I don't believe these people are NUTS. I think there's more going with respect to balance in the media and certain Celeb doctors getting all the air time. Somewhere there has to be a middle ground, at the moment the only person I can see occupying that ground would be maybe Kingston mills.
    I'm not vouching for the idiots and disillusioned in the crowd but even as far as that Oxford professor sunetra gupta goes, they're not all mad. Scientists are very arrogant and it's their job to get grants, acclaim and honour however just remember scientists have claimed Nobel prizes in the past, that they knew did not belong to them.

    https://www.biotechpharmasummit.com/index.php/companion-diagnostics-biomarkers-2019-speakers/dolores-cahill/

    https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/other/questions-over-25m-cost-for-leasing-a-mostly-empty-citywest/ar-BB1eKExT?ocid=entnewsntp


  • #7306
    alexonhisown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭alexonhisown


    Monster249 wrote: »
    Serious question, why are you still adhering to the arbitrary 5k travel radius?

    I’m not strictly adhering to it, but certain members of my family won’t go beyond the 5km to meet up for a walk. I have plenty of reasons to move around, visit graveyard, shopping, dropping shopping to non existent people but some of my family won’t break the restrictions at all.


  • #7307
    PmMeUrDogs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭PmMeUrDogs


    607 positive swabs, 4.7% positivity on 12,924 tests.
    7 day test positivity is 3.9%


  • #7308
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    607 swabs
    4.7% + rate

    Swabs slightly lower than the same day last week but the + rate is not good at all.


  • #7309
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,532 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Just to flag up a bit of caution when looking at swabs over the next few days. Would suspect with paddy's day they're going to be noisy for want of a better word until after the weekend.

    https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1372934391480061960?s=19


  • #7310
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    alexonhisown wrote: »
    I’m not strictly adhering to it, but certain members of my family won’t go beyond the 5km to meet up for a walk. I have plenty of reasons to move around, visit graveyard, shopping, dropping shopping to non existent people but some of my family won’t break the restrictions at all.

    I think the 5km limit is the daftest of all restrictions. I think they will definitely get rid of it April 5th, not that most are already disregarding it.


  • #7311
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭h2005


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-r-rate-school-closures-lockdown-lancet-study-b1251617.html?__twitter_impression=true

    Are we finally going to admit that schools lead to a significant hike in numbers? Once we do that at least we can begin the conversation on how we approach it (mitigate or choose to live with it). The nonsense of denying this is getting us nowhere and is only causing division.


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  • #7312
    jhegarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Just to flag up a bit of caution when looking at swabs over the next few days. Would suspect with paddy's day they're going to be noisy for want of a better word until after the weekend.

    I am going assume there was less routing testing which would push up the positivity rate.


  • #7313
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,532 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    MerlinSouthDub wrote: »
    607 swabs
    4.7% + rate

    Swabs slightly lower than the same day last week but the + rate is not good at all.

    It's going to be pretty noisy in terms of data for the next few days. Need to work through paddy's day and then the days after when referrals increase given the missed day.


  • #7314
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    rusty cole wrote: »
    look I've no skin in the game either way Seamus but look at her CV ok, just on the face of it. I would have to ask why people like this, along with the DR Martin Feelys in Ireland and indeed many the world over, are suddenly abandoning the science that has served them for decades and joining splinter groups of anti lizard people? or is that really the case? Half of NPHET are young and have much less experience of evidence based medicine and though I accept all the accolades that came after, Ronan started life as a physio.

    Martin Feely was a vascular surgeon. Completely inapplicable for anything to do with respiratory illnesses or public health. They're a famously specific specialty, hence why you don't see them speaking about healthcare outside their specialty. Feely did this based on his administrative role, not based on his medical background.

    Ronan Glynn is a member of the RCSI and the RCPI (quite uncommon for someone to achieve both). He has an incredibly accomplished medical CV; you mention that he has a BSc in Physiotherapy. You fail to mention that after that he got a Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery, PhD in Surgical Oncology and a Masters in Public Health.

    You were either unaware of that, or else you clearly have no knowledge of medical qualifications.


  • #7315
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭h2005


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Just to flag up a bit of caution when looking at swabs over the next few days. Would suspect with paddy's day they're going to be noisy for want of a better word until after the weekend.

    https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1372934391480061960?s=19

    Surely next week before we'd expect any impact from Paddy's day? How quickly are people noticing symptoms now?


  • #7316
    jhegarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    h2005 wrote: »
    Surely next week before we'd expect any impact from Paddy's day? How quickly are people noticing symptoms now?

    It's the impact on testing , not the impact covid.


  • #7317
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,532 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    h2005 wrote: »
    Surely next week before we'd expect any impact from Paddy's day? How quickly are people noticing symptoms now?

    I'm not talking impact of paddy's day in terms of getting covid.

    I'm talking in terms of referrals for tests, test being carried out etc.

    All impacted by a bank holiday and hence will probably give a bumpy few days in terms of metrics surrounding testing


  • #7318
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,065 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    h2005 wrote: »
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-r-rate-school-closures-lockdown-lancet-study-b1251617.html?__twitter_impression=true

    Are we finally going to admit that schools lead to a significant hike in numbers? Once we do that at least we can begin the conversation on how we approach it (mitigate or choose to live with it). The nonsense of denying this is getting us nowhere and is only causing division.

    At this stage I think continue with what's there til Easter, since that's only next Friday for their holidays but maybe unless cases come down, just let it at LC to go back and pull Primary.


  • #7319
    Crocodile Booze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Crocodile Booze


    h2005 wrote: »
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-r-rate-school-closures-lockdown-lancet-study-b1251617.html?__twitter_impression=true

    Are we finally going to admit that schools lead to a significant hike in numbers?

    Admit that? On this forum? Haha haha. Good one!


  • #7320
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    questionmark? wrote: »
    If there was ever a time to consider buying a boat it's now. Just saying :)


    I was looking at kayaks actually! But with Cork Harbour and tides, I'd probably get swept out to sea, which would require rescue and a fine for being outside my 5k! The middle of the Atlantic sadly is >5km away!


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  • #7321
    h2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭h2005


    jhegarty wrote: »
    It's the impact on testing , not the impact covid.

    Ah got ya thanks


This discussion has been closed.
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