COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Melanchthon · 08-03-2021 02:23PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Very naive to say nationality doesn't matter - AstraZeneca and Moderna have proved that it very much does.

Well on that note then. Any word about Valneva in the EU. We know they started production of the UK supply a few months back at this stage. Haven't seen any news relating to pre-approval production in the EU.
Is this going to be another thing where the Commission is slow handing out the cash so the company isn't starting production for the EU supply? Its not super relevant for this stage of the rollout but an interesting comparison considering its a French company

I do not speak french so maybe I missed stuff.

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 02:25PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Well on that note then. Any word about Valneva in the EU. We know they started production of the UK supply a few months back at this stage. Haven't seen any news relating to pre-approval production in the EU.
Is this going to be another thing where the Commission is slow handing out the cash so the company isn't starting production for the EU supply? Its not super relevant for this stage of the rollout but an interesting comparison considering its a French company

I do not speak french so maybe I missed stuff.

Valneva production is happening in Scotland - UK have already began producing it, looks like we're not gonna be involved in it. Even if we are, exploratory talks were only for 60 mill doses which is 'small'.

eoinbn · 08-03-2021 02:33PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Curevac is an mRNA vaccine, the same as Pfizer and Moderna, produced by a European company and with phase 3 results expected this month. To say Novavax is 'better' is likely very wrong.

Very naive to say nationality doesn't matter - AstraZeneca and Moderna have proved that it very much does.

Novavax is 96% effective against the original strain - higher than any other vaccine. Curevac was reported to be trigger a weaker immune response than BioNtech so it is unlikely to be better than Novavax. It might have a higher figure in the P3 trial but that was because Novavax was dragged down by the results against variants. Most of Curevac trial will be in Europe and Mexico so it won't face the same variants. Anyway we are splitting hairs - both are likely to very effective.

I doubt we will see much from Curevac this month - the CEO doesn't expect it to be approved until May/June so that would suggest that the P3 results won't be until late April or May.

Novavax will likely be approved and used in the UK before the US. It is down to planning, not just nationality.

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 02:43PM

eoinbn wrote: »

Novavax is 96% effective against the original strain - higher than any other vaccine. Curevac was reported to be trigger a weaker immune response than BioNtech so it is unlikely to be better than Novavax. It might have a higher figure in the P3 trial but that was because Novavax was dragged down by the results against variants. Most of Curevac trial will be in Europe and Mexico so it won't face the same variants. Anyway we are splitting hairs - both are likely to very effective.

I doubt we will see much from Curevac this month - the CEO doesn't expect it to be approved until May/June so that would suggest that the P3 results won't be until late April or May.

Novavax will likely be approved and used in the UK before the US. It is down to planning, not just nationality.

Curevac Phase 3 expected in March - https://www.wmdt.com/i/the-latest-curevac-begins-phase-3-study-of-possible-vaccine/
Novavax haven't even applied for approval in Europe - that's hardly the EU's fault.
Also, on the bolded part, that's just not true, no immune comparisons to other vaccines were made after phase 1/2a. Curevac is using a different mRNA approach, completely natural with no chemically modified RNA which is expected to produce higher immune response, not less. (More info here)

08-03-2021 02:46PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Well on that note then. Any word about Valneva in the EU. We know they started production of the UK supply a few months back at this stage. Haven't seen any news relating to pre-approval production in the EU.
Is this going to be another thing where the Commission is slow handing out the cash so the company isn't starting production for the EU supply? Its not super relevant for this stage of the rollout but an interesting comparison considering its a French company

I do not speak french so maybe I missed stuff.

Vaccine supply is not going to be an issue for the developed world come the end of Q2. If you have money to spend you will be able to buy something.

Melanchthon · 08-03-2021 02:48PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Valneva production is happening in Scotland - UK have already began producing it, looks like we're not gonna be involved in it. Even if we are, exploratory talks were only for 60 mill doses which is 'small'.

Thats my point, despite being a French company there's already ringfenced UK production happening now.
Its not so much to do with nationality of the parent company as willingness to put money down quickly at the start to bring production online.

I am not sure Valneva itself will be important to the UK due to probably not having full approval till the summer but the production will be a good backup and if not needed you could buy some serious political good will with a gift of enough vaccine to do the entire population of somewhere like Angola.

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 02:50PM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Thats my point, despite being a French company there's already ringfenced UK production happening now.
Its not so much to do with nationality of the parent company as willingness to put money down quickly at the start to bring production online.

I am not sure Valneva itself will be important to the UK due to probably not having full approval till the summer but the production will be a good backup and if not needed you could buy some serious political good will with a gift of enough vaccine to do the entire population of somewhere like Angola.

It does really though. The entire trial process of the vaccine took place in the UK, out of their Livingston facility. The trials are being supported by the UK National Institute for Health Research and four British universities. I wouldn't even call it a French vaccine to be honest.

Sanjuro · 08-03-2021 02:58PM

Apogee wrote: »

Paul Reid interview on yesterday's This Week:
https://www.rte.ie/radio1/this-week/

Is that correct about the last day of the quarter? 200,000 done in one day? That seems wildly optimistic at current rates. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the last day of the first quarter the 31st March?

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 02:59PM

Sanjuro wrote: »

Is that correct about the last day of the quarter? 200,000 done in one day? That seems wildly optimistic at current rates. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the last day of the first quarter the 31st March?

Delivered, not done

stefanovich · 08-03-2021 02:59PM

plodder wrote: »

You mean adjuvants I presume. Afaik, none of the three currently licensed contain adjuvants, which are substances intended to enhance the effect of the vaccine. They do contain "excipients" which are inactive substances used to stabilise or assist in the delivery of the vaccine. You can see lists of these at the following links. Search for the word excipient.

(Pfizer) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-for-covid-19/information-for-healthcare-professionals-on-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine

(Moderna) https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/product-information/covid-19-vaccine-moderna-epar-product-information_en.pdf

(AZ) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca/information-for-uk-recipients-on-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca

Which contain aborted foetal cells?

stephenjmcd · 08-03-2021 03:00PM

Sanjuro wrote: »

Is that correct about the last day of the quarter? 200,000 done in one day? That seems wildly optimistic at current rates. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the last day of the first quarter the 31st March?

They expect 200,000 doses to arrive in the country in the final days of March. That is what suppliers are telling them at moment. The delivery schedule for the last week - 10 days of March would appear to be very busy.

Sconsey · 08-03-2021 03:11PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Which contain aborted foetal cells?

None, do some research.

SheepsClothing · 08-03-2021 03:14PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Curevac Phase 3 expected in March - https://www.wmdt.com/i/the-latest-curevac-begins-phase-3-study-of-possible-vaccine/
Novavax haven't even applied for approval in Europe - that's hardly the EU's fault.
Also, on the bolded part, that's just not true, no immune comparisons to other vaccines were made after phase 1/2a. Curevac is using a different mRNA approach, completely natural with no chemically modified RNA which is expected to produce higher immune response, not less. (More info here)

If the EU hasn't ordered any Novavax vaccines, why in the world would they apply for approval?

eoinbn · 08-03-2021 03:15PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Curevac Phase 3 expected in March - https://www.wmdt.com/i/the-latest-curevac-begins-phase-3-study-of-possible-vaccine/
Novavax haven't even applied for approval in Europe - that's hardly the EU's fault.
Also, on the bolded part, that's just not true, no immune comparisons to other vaccines were made after phase 1/2a. Curevac is using a different mRNA approach, completely natural with no chemically modified RNA which is expected to produce higher immune response, not less. (More info here)

The head of the vaccine companies were questioned by the EU commission recently. Most of the article was about AZ performance but there were some questions to the head of Curevac. He is saying late May/early June for approval. That would suggest P3 results in mid to late April at the earliest.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/02/25/meps-grill-astrazeneca-s-ceo-soriot-over-covid-vaccine-delivery-delays.

The EU haven't ordered from Novavax. We can't expect to get much if anything from then in Q2 if we haven't even put in an order at this stage.

About BioNtech vs Curevac. It was just a report - it wasn't concrete evidence. The report outlined the same information that you posted - Curevac was expected to elicit a better response due to it's production process but wasn't evident in the results. If I find the link I will post it but I read it months ago.

stefanovich · 08-03-2021 03:21PM

Sconsey wrote: »

None, do some research.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

To make their virus vector vaccine, Johnson & Johnson infects PER.C6 fetal cell line cells with adenovirus. All PER.C6 cells used to manufacture the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are descended from tissue taken from a 1985 elective abortion that also took place in the Netherlands. They use this cell line because it is a well-studied industry standard for safe and reliable production of viral vector vaccines.

Okay so they just use them in production in the case of J&J and testing for the others.

eigrod · 08-03-2021 03:23PM

Hopefully this will hold true

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1368929325756674051?s=21

stefanovich · 08-03-2021 03:27PM

eigrod wrote: »

Hopefully this will hold true

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1368929325756674051?s=21

I have zero faith in von der Leyen.

Sconsey · 08-03-2021 03:31PM

stefanovich wrote: »

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

Okay so they just use them in production in the case of J&J and testing for the others.

First off why did you ask if you are capable of looking for yourself, why not just come straight out and say what your motives are?

Second, from the article you linked to...

But it's important to have the full context: Fetal cell lines are not the same as fetal tissue.

Fetal cell lines are cells that grow in a laboratory. They descend from cells taken from elective abortions in the 1970s and 1980s. Those individual cells from the 1970s and 1980s have since multiplied into many new cells over the past four or five decades, creating fetal cell lines. Current fetal cell lines are thousands of generations removed from the original fetal tissue. They do not contain any tissue from a fetus.

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 03:32PM

SheepsClothing wrote: »

If the EU hasn't ordered any Novavax vaccines, why in the world would they apply for approval?

The poster blamed planning on the UK and US approving it before us. They haven't even applied so it's obviously going to be approved there first.

SheepsClothing · 08-03-2021 03:36PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The poster blamed planning on the UK and US approving it before us. They haven't even applied so it's obviously going to be approved there first.

But they haven't applied, because the EU hasn't ordered any vaccines. Just another case of the EU being outflanked when it comes to vaccine procurement.

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 03:39PM

SheepsClothing wrote: »

But they haven't applied, because the EU hasn't ordered any vaccines. Just another case of the EU being outflanked when it comes to vaccine procurement.

What does that have to do with anything? Applying for approval would allow countries to do their own orders. The EU doesn't need to have a deal to get approval, that's a bizarre way of thinking.

stephenjmcd · 08-03-2021 03:42PM

SheepsClothing wrote: »

But they haven't applied, because the EU hasn't ordered any vaccines. Just another case of the EU being outflanked when it comes to vaccine procurement.

Don't need a deal done to apply for approval.

For example the EU doesn't have a deal for Sputnik but the rolling review is underway, in the fullness of time if the EMA like what they see they could approve it without a bloc purchasing deal and each country could do their own thing in that case

08-03-2021 03:43PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

What does that have to do with anything? Applying for approval would allow countries to do their own orders. The EU doesn't need to have a deal to get approval, that's a bizarre way of thinking.

Have they even applied for UK approval?

08-03-2021 03:44PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Don't need a deal done to apply for approval.

For example the EU doesn't have a deal for Sputnik but the rolling review is underway, in the fullness of time if the EMA like what they see they could approve it without a bloc purchasing deal and each country could do their own thing in that case

Novovax rolling review is underway in the EU also

stefanovich · 08-03-2021 03:45PM

Sconsey wrote: »

First off why did you ask if you are capable of looking for yourself, why not just come straight out and say what your motives are?

Second, from the article you linked to...

Please enlighten me as to my motives.

Why were you not forthcoming with the whole truth?

This could be important data for some. Are you aware of any that don't leverage these cells for production or test?

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 03:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have they even applied for UK approval?

No they haven't, so other posters trying to say the EU are 'behind' or whatever with it is complete nonsense

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 08-03-2021 03:46PM

stefanovich wrote: »

I have zero faith in von der Leyen.

von der Lyin

lol

08-03-2021 03:46PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Please enlighten me as to my motives.

Why were you not forthcoming with the whole truth?

This could be important data for some. Are you aware of any that don't leverage these cells for production or test?

The important data is if the vaccine works

stefanovich · 08-03-2021 03:47PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

What's wrong with the sputnik guys then, why are they wasting everybodies time applying for approval?

They really don't want to give the boogeyman good publicity.

stefanovich · 08-03-2021 03:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The important data is if the vaccine works

Important for you perhaps. Some people's faith or morals would cause them to pause before accepting a vaccine made in that way. A vaccine made without them would be a strong selling point for some communities.

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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