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Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

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    #2222
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    ForeRight wrote: »
    Seve you seem to be missing my point. I’m not arguing what is and what isn’t essential re shops etc. I understand what you’re saying clearly with that point and as I’ve said I am completely convinced golf is safe. I’m simply saying I can understand why it’s not open yet as the situation is far more complicated that a simple black and white of what’s safe and what’s not. I’d love nothing more than to be out playing today.

    In regard to golf being essential to mental health my point was that’s not a reason to open it up. Mental health that’s held together by swinging a golf club is not actually very healthy.
    I understand your personal situation and can see you’re frustrated over your dad but you know yourself decisions like this don’t be made over isolated situations that are effected. Your dads situation is crap, of course and I empathise but it would be in the extreme minority.
    I fully expect multiple replies now of how it’s not but let’s be honest 95% of golfers walk the course which means they can walk the park or wherever they like for fresh air and exercise.

    yes sorry, i think we have crossed wires. i do realise you were not arguing the toss of what is essential and not essential. i was just trying to analogise and i do realise you think golf is safe to open.

    re the mental health stuff, i am not actually trying to make a case for my dad. in fact, i don't really think he has any mental health issues, i was just using his situation as an example that some people really don't have much else going on in their life (be it golf or a pottery class) and to take the little that they do have away from, cannot be a good thing.
    ClutchIt wrote: »
    People use mental health as an excuse for anything nowadays. Absolute nonsense.

    TBH, I kinda agree with this. I suppose I am whatever the opposite of a snowflake/millennial is when it comes to things like this and don't generally buy the complaining. But I do realise that there are some people out there who really do have issues. I agree with you though, it's to easy to wheel it out as an excuse and woe betide the person who speaks ill it.


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    #2223
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Russman


    Not sure if golf is covered by “outdoor activities”, if it’s not then it doesn’t look good for April......

    https://www.independent.ie/news/varadkar-warns-no-major-easing-of-restrictions-until-may-as-he-tells-tds-to-stay-on-message-40145692.html


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    #2224
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    Russman wrote: »
    Not sure if golf is covered by “outdoor activities”, if it’s not then it doesn’t look good for April......

    https://www.independent.ie/news/varadkar-warns-no-major-easing-of-restrictions-until-may-as-he-tells-tds-to-stay-on-message-40145692.html



    I read that as good news for potential golf in April


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    #2225
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    There is no way in hell I would do that job for 100k

    If you think TDs are overpaid then you have no idea of wages for senior jobs in Ireland.

    Anybody actually qualified to do the job would need take pretty big paycut and then be a public body set for ridicule

    Leo became a politcian because he was too lazy to be a doctor. Thats coming from multiple people who worked with him for example

    i was with you till you said this about Leo. thats a bit unfair. of course, that is unless you know him personally and he told you that in confidence. or maybe you are Leo.


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    #2226
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    Seve OB wrote: »
    i was with you till you said this about Leo. thats a bit unfair. of course, that is unless you know him personally and he told you that in confidence. or maybe you are Leo.

    I am personal friends with two doctors who have worked with him

    It is a well known fact that he was one of the laziest junior doctor in history. Everyone hated to work with him because of his laziness


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    #2227
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭h2005


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    I am personal friends with two doctors who have worked with him

    It is a well known fact that he was one of the laziest junior doctor in history. Everyone hated to work with him because of his laziness

    Ya, I'm calling this out as horse****e. He's a doctor who became Taoiseach. Many things he can be accused of but laziness is probably the least likely!


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    #2228
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,816 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    h2005 wrote: »
    Ya, I'm calling this out as horse****e. He's a doctor who became Taoiseach. Many things he can be accused of but laziness is probably the least likely!

    He obviously wanted out. In top job he would have easily been doing 12 to 16 hours a day.


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    #2229
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The Big Easy wrote: »
    O
    Tell me that a senior HSE official or cabinet minister with a big house and large garden in the suburbs who continues to travel daily to work, having meetings with colleagues, believing they are working together to overcome the crisis of a generation can easily understand what someone living in a house/apartment share unable to work or leave the house apart from essential exercise.
    Tell me that the person in the house/apartment share can easily understand what its like to be responsible for dealing with and ultimately solving an unprecedented in our lifetimes global pandemic and you might have yourself an argument!


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    #2230
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    RoadRunner wrote: »
    Over the weekend after having a lunch a market at the royal canal like hundreds of others. I later cycled with the little one to visit bull island. We crossed the packed wooden bridge just like hundreds of thousands of other people that day. I didn't go to the spot where the coffee queue normally starts but I've seen that queue over 50 meters when the place was not busy.


    "At Level 5, the public health risk means that you will be asked to stay at home, except for travel for work, education or other essential purposes, or to take exercise within 5km of home. "

    Which bits of your weekend adventures do you reckon were covered under "work", "education", "essential travel" or "exercise"?
    That golf is closed for our "safety" is ridiculous.
    That you would still choose to go out for a market lunch during a "STAY HOME" advisory is ridiculous imo.


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    #2231
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Miley Byrne wrote: »
    Off topic I know but if you use the analogy that a team is only as strong as its weakest player then our government is shambolic. Stephen Donnelly and Norma Foley are so out of their depth that it's bordering on criminal that those two head up two of the most important departments in the country. You say €100k? More like €180k plus the pension entitlements. Again sorry I'm off topic but these people tasked with running departments (vitally important departments at the best of times but in Covid times are actually critical to the health and well being of our people) are no where near qualified enough or competent enough to do that particular job. Donnelly is a complete moron ffs

    If only there was some sort of group of servants (perhaps very polite ones?) that could be used in some sort of advisory manner, then the politicians wouldnt have to do all the leg work, investigations and decisions all on their own!


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    #2232
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    not yet wrote: »
    Cannot agree with you there, last year I felt extremely safe playing golf, be it a 2 ball or 4 ball, I have walked the Phoenix park dozens of times in the past 6 months and have had joggers sweating like fcuk brush off me, numerous people passing within inches of me.

    That's a problem you solve by dealing with stupid joggers, not by opening up a free for all...


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    #2233
    RoadRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭RoadRunner


    GreeBo wrote: »
    "At Level 5, the public health risk means that you will be asked to stay at home, except for travel for work, education or other essential purposes, or to take exercise within 5km of home. "

    Which bits of your weekend adventures do you reckon were covered under "work", "education", "essential travel" or "exercise"?

    That you would still choose to go out for a market lunch during a "STAY HOME" advisory is ridiculous imo.

    We cycled. I'm calling that exercise. We ate. Essential travel. Anarchy!


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    #2234
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Folks, this is not a COVID forum, please stay on topic, Golf related lockdown discussion only.
    There is a dedicated COVID forum should you wish to post COVID only comments

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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    #2235
    Miley Byrne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If only there was some sort of group of servants (perhaps very polite ones?) that could be used in some sort of advisory manner, then the politicians wouldnt have to do all the leg work, investigations and decisions all on their own!

    Well if there were wouldn't it be a good idea to maybe use them in a way that doesn't make the minister in question look like a moron? Why would a fool have advisers that make him look like a fool?


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    #2236
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,816 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    slave1 wrote: »
    Folks, this is not a COVID forum, please stay on topic, Golf related lockdown discussion only.
    There is a dedicated COVID forum should you wish to post COVID only comments

    I'll be honest Slave . It is interesting. And Is the covid related analysis. Not relevant to the opening up ?

    I guess people are cranky with covid . And debate tends to escalate much quicker these days.


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    #2237
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Miley Byrne wrote: »
    Well if there were wouldn't it be a good idea to maybe use them in a way that doesn't make the minister in question look like a moron? Why would a fool have advisers that make him look like a fool?

    Well the ESRI studies are showing that 79% of people think preventing further spread is more important than burden of restrictions...so in whose eyes do they look like fools? The 21% minority? I reckon anyone would take that as a result to be honest, so as already stated, I dont see golf being top of anyone's priority list.


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    #2238
    iancairns
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭iancairns


    Just curious to know if anyone’s gold clubs have adjusted annual membership fees or if there is any intention. Considering we’ll be probably 5months no golf this year on top of 3months last year.

    I know our membership fees support the club but surely most clubs would be in excess by now?

    What are current overheads other than course maintenance?

    Am I just a tight bastard. I’d just love to know next membership is even couple hundred cheaper. Anything to acknowledge what is going on.


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    #2239
    Miley Byrne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well the ESRI studies are showing that 79% of people think preventing further spread is more important than burden of restrictions...so in whose eyes do they look like fools? The 21% minority? I reckon anyone would take that as a result to be honest, so as already stated, I dont see golf being top of anyone's priority list.

    It was more in general terms regarding his ability (or lack thereof) to lead the department of health than a criticism from a golfer's point of view of their decision to keep golf courses closed.


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    #2240
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,114 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    iancairns wrote: »
    Just curious to know if anyone’s gold clubs have adjusted annual membership fees or if there is any intention. Considering we’ll be probably 5months no golf this year on top of 3months last year.

    I know our membership fees support the club but surely most clubs would be in excess by now?

    What are current overheads other than course maintenance?

    Am I just a tight bastard. I’d just love to know next membership is even couple hundred cheaper. Anything to acknowledge what is going on.

    Course maintenance is kinda a biggie for a golf course!
    All that equipment is still depreciating and still needs to be maintained, you are just saving some money on the clubhouse gas/electricity and *maybe* some staff.
    I wouldnt say our expenses have dropped by much at all to be honest, but there is no greenfee or society income coming in at all, so rather than an excess I would expect a loss.


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    #2241
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Russman


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Course maintenance is kinda a biggie for a golf course!
    All that equipment is still depreciating and still needs to be maintained, you are just saving some money on the clubhouse gas/electricity and *maybe* some staff.
    I wouldnt say our expenses have dropped by much at all to be honest, but there is no greenfee or society income coming in at all, so rather than an excess I would expect a loss.

    Yeah, this exactly.

    I reckon it will depend on just how dependent each individual club is on green fees / societies to cover their expenses. If its mostly covered by membership subs, they should be ok, if breaking even means they need XX amount of green fees, things could be tight.


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    #2242
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Russman wrote: »
    Yeah, this exactly.

    I reckon it will depend on just how dependent each individual club is on green fees / societies to cover their expenses. If its mostly covered by membership subs, they should be ok, if breaking even means they need XX amount of green fees, things could be tight.

    There is also no income from competitions in a long time as well. The reality is that the only income source to most Clubs at the moment is the Annual Sub.

    Take a Club (member run) with 500 members as an example and lets say the Sub is 1K so they take in 500K in subs in a year. And lets say they told Members they would charge them €200 a year less due to them not being able to play Golf for a period of the year, then suddenly their income from Subs falls to €400K. Then add in the shortfall from other areas in the same time period or over the course of the year. and their income could be down 100-200K for the year.

    As has been mentioned before these are Clubs not run to make a profit but run by the Members for the Members. The outgoings might have reduced a bit but the course still has to be maintained and all Wages and Utilities have to be paid as well as servicing of debts (most Clubs will be paying back a bank loan of some sort).

    If the Club was to give a discount across the board this year then they would probably be coming to Members during the year or at the AGM looking for a significant increase to get things back on track for the coming years.


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    #2243
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Russman


    Exactly wrote: »
    There is also no income from competitions in a long time as well. The reality is that the only income source to most Clubs at the moment is the Annual Sub.

    Take a Club (member run) with 500 members as an example and lets say the Sub is 1K so they take in 500K in subs in a year. And lets say they told Members they would charge them €200 a year less due to them not being able to play Golf for a period of the year, then suddenly their income from Subs falls to €400K. Then add in the shortfall from other areas in the same time period or over the course of the year. and their income could be down 100-200K for the year.

    As has been mentioned before these are Clubs not run to make a profit but run by the Members for the Members. The outgoings might have reduced a bit but the course still has to be maintained and all Wages and Utilities have to be paid as well as servicing of debts (most Clubs will be paying back a bank loan of some sort).

    If the Club was to give a discount across the board this year then they would probably be coming to Members during the year or at the AGM looking for a significant increase to get things back on track for the coming years.

    Absolutely.
    Now, I do think clubs should do something to recognise what the members missed out on. One suggestion I heard was maybe something like your first 5 competition entries are free, just something as a token. Guys who play regularly would use that up in no time, but others might take weeks/months to play 5 competitions, so it might spread the burden over some of the season.


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    #2244
    benny79
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭benny79


    I get what you's are saying I also understand it and I have no problem playing my fees this as lets face it. Its unforeseen circumstances. I rather pay them then my club close. But a lot of people one. One of my own mates is like not a chance he's joining this year unless they reduce the fees or do something! he's missed x amount of months etc etc Sadly this is a lot of peoples views plus then you have people who lose there jobs. I say its a dangerous situation for clubs to survive as a lot will be down on yearly subs!


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    #2245
    Stacksey
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Stacksey


    It looks like golf will resume on April 5th(touch wood) Do you reckon it will be 2 balls like what was announced before the latest lockdown?


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    #2246
    onthefairway
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭onthefairway


    I think there is a key difference between being a "member" of a Members owned GC and joining a Non Members owned GC. In a members club you pay your sub to cover the cost of providing the services to you and the members are asked to cover any deficit by paying extra via a levy or increasing the annual sub. You get to vote on the solution.
    In a Non Members club you are a customer and you elect to pay your sub as you do your car insurance. If the club has a deficit they decide what annual sub they need to charge to cover their costs.
    I don't foresee much scope in reducing Subs unless there is scope to reduce discretionary spend within the Members club. ( staff & course maintenance are the primary costs) . Revenue from Annual Subs is often needs to be supplemented by Green fees , Opens and club competitions to achieve a break even position.


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    #2247
    Luckycharm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Luckycharm


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yeah but it was the same people you were "close" to for those 3/4 hours, that makes a difference afaik.
    In the park each "pod/bubble" doesnt interact with anyone else and is pretty much constantly moving, with golf we are standing on the tee and green beside each other for a few mins on each hole, so more chance of spreading something.

    Greebo have you been in Marley near the coffee shop especially, there is plenty of interacting going on. Place is rammed most days and especially w/ends, not to mention the other parks around there.


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    #2248
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Luckycharm wrote: »
    Greebo have you been in Marley near the coffee shop especially, there is plenty of interacting going on. Place is rammed most days and especially w/ends, not to mention the other parks around there.

    of course he hasn't. I'm not sure he has even left his house as he was very clearly very upset at someone going on a bike ride with their kid.


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    #2249
    Luckycharm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Luckycharm


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Course maintenance is kinda a biggie for a golf course!
    All that equipment is still depreciating and still needs to be maintained, you are just saving some money on the clubhouse gas/electricity and *maybe* some staff.
    I wouldnt say our expenses have dropped by much at all to be honest, but there is no greenfee or society income coming in at all, so rather than an excess I would expect a loss.

    We would have very few Greenfee or societies at this time of year. We actually made a small profit last year.


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    #2250
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    I would gladly pay my sub if I thought we could play for the rest of the yr uninterrupted.
    Clubs have to look at play as you go for members for the rest of the yr.
    20 euro a round would be fair...


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    #2251
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    paid up today, couldn't not, but i hope that somebody see sense and gives something back to the members


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