Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

ForeRight · 01-03-2021 11:13am

opinionated3 wrote: »

Would probably disagree with you there foreright, in the sense that lockdown has been going on for a long, long time now, and very safe activities like golf should be open to give people that outlet for exercise and mental health. It hasn't been stopped in Scotland and has had no ill effects there. It's unfair to through all sports in together. There's a world of difference between 15 lads from team sports conducting indoor training in the gym,Vs four lads teeing it up once or twice a week. But that's just my opinion. I'm still hopeful for 5th AprilðŸ€ž

Golf is not essential for exercise or mental health. Anyone can go for a walk.
If swinging a golf club is essential to somebody’s mental well being they should probably get professional help because that’s not a great way to be.

I think you missed my point. Of course golf is safe but so is so much more. If they allow one sport you’d have everyone after that arguing they are safe and the bar for safety just keeps on moving until things are just messy again.
The blanket ban was all that would work. I understand that even if I know golf is safe. I also understand government knowing if they allow one sport they open a can of worms for themselves.

I’m very hopeful for April golf too.

Seve OB · 01-03-2021 11:53am

ForeRight wrote: »

Golf is not essential for exercise or mental health. Anyone can go for a walk.
If swinging a golf club is essential to somebody’s mental well being they should probably get professional help because that’s not a great way to be.

I think you missed my point. Of course golf is safe but so is so much more. If they allow one sport you’d have everyone after that arguing they are safe and the bar for safety just keeps on moving until things are just messy again.
The blanket ban was all that would work. I understand that even if I know golf is safe. I also understand government knowing if they allow one sport they open a can of worms for themselves.

I’m very hopeful for April golf too.

if you want to stick to essential then stick to essential. shops are open and not just supermarkets. warehouses are open, shipping out plastic toys. is that essential? woodies is open where you can buy easter decorations, is that essential? dunnes are open where you can buy t shirts, is that essential? i could go on and on but you get the picture.

the point is, there are a hell of a lot of non-essential things open which can't be considered safe environments if golf can't. so your blanket ban is not working, mainly because there hasn't been a blanket ban in place.

i think you miss the point about mental health. mental health issues are not always just solved by going for a walk!!! if you take away the one thing that someone really looks forward to, it is not going to do their mental health any good. take my dad for example, 72 years old, lives alone, i havent seen him since st stephens day, he sits at home alone. he is not really mobile enough to go for walks etc, (he uses a buggy to play golf). he won't let me do his shopping as it is the only trip out of hte house he takes once a week.

not yet · 01-03-2021 12:37pm

GreeBo wrote: »

You came close to those 80 or 90 people for what, 2 seconds?

You spend 3-4 hours with the golfers you play with, and I don't believe that you never get close to other golfers on the course, you walk to and from the tee and green together, not to mention rooting for your balls in the trees!

I played last year under the new rules, I can tell you I never came closer then I came to people out walking in the park, take what you want from that.

ForeRight · 01-03-2021 12:49pm

Seve OB wrote: »

if you want to stick to essential then stick to essential. shops are open and not just supermarkets. warehouses are open, shipping out plastic toys. is that essential? woodies is open where you can buy easter decorations, is that essential? dunnes are open where you can buy t shirts, is that essential? i could go on and on but you get the picture.

the point is, there are a hell of a lot of non-essential things open which can't be considered safe environments if golf can't. so your blanket ban is not working, mainly because there hasn't been a blanket ban in place.

i think you miss the point about mental health. mental health issues are not always just solved by going for a walk!!! if you take away the one thing that someone really looks forward to, it is not going to do their mental health any good. take my dad for example, 72 years old, lives alone, i havent seen him since st stephens day, he sits at home alone. he is not really mobile enough to go for walks etc, (he uses a buggy to play golf). he won't let me do his shopping as it is the only trip out of hte house he takes once a week.

The blanket ban I was referring to was on sports. I wasn’t comparing golf to any shops that are open which some may consider non esssntial.
If golf was open a whole world of screaming starts for government from other sports who could argue they are safe also and then the full retail, restaurants and pubs follow that was my point.

As I’ve said I think golf is safe I’m just saying I understand why it’s not open yet.

I understand your dads situation and it’s crap, I get that but unfortunately the bigger picture is about way more than a situation that’s quite personal to you.
My parents go nowhere. Health wise not great and they are at home with my adult special needs brother. My dad would love to go to golf too.
It’s a terrible situation for everyone. We are nearly there now though imo.

benny79 · 01-03-2021 1:40pm

ForeRight wrote: »

The blanket ban I was referring to was on sports. I wasn’t comparing golf to any shops that are open which some may consider non esssntial.
If golf was open a whole world of screaming starts for government from other sports who could argue they are safe also and then the full retail, restaurants and pubs follow that was my point.

As I’ve said I think golf is safe I’m just saying I understand why it’s not open yet.

I understand your dads situation and it’s crap, I get that but unfortunately the bigger picture is about way more than a situation that’s quite personal to you.
My parents go nowhere. Health wise not great and they are at home with my adult special needs brother. My dad would love to go to golf too.
It’s a terrible situation for everyone. We are nearly there now though imo.

I get what you are saying ForeRight and I understand a blanket ban but it isnt working and other counties aren't doing it. As someone mentioned golf is allowed in Scotland. Plus it was allowed before xmas when other sports were closed. My point is the need to open sports that are deemed less risk Golf, tennis the likes if for any other reason than to spread people out. Take some away from the parks etc.

The Big Easy · 01-03-2021 1:45pm

There are people in favour of the current level of restrictions that are oblivious to their own behaviour. Defining themselves and their own excursions as essential, so it's easy to see how they can't understand the frustration of people who actually observe the restrictions as they are intended.

I live about 25km from where I'm studying, I could get the Dart into the city centre to get a book from the library and study (these are the kind of excursions that can be argued as essential in our nonsensical restrictions), stopping along the way for a coffee along the quays and a picnic in the park. I don't do this, instead I study in the loft while my partner works downstairs and I walk in the woods close by.

I observe the restrictions but I want them changed, especially the nonsensical arbitrary ones (such as no golf). I want them changed not just for me, but for the wellbeing of all. It really frustrates me when people who are continuing to go about their daily activities relatively unchanged (relative to those truly affected by and observing restrictions) lecture those about wanting some kind of social or physical outlet for their justified frustrations.

Come on, there are very few who actually have to go into work in these times. You have Michael Martin travelling around the country non-stop lurking over the shoulders of the vulnerable receiving vaccinations. What earthly reason does he have to be in primary care facility at this time and with a camera crew and advisors too no doubt, beyond the opportunity for a photo-op? Then a scrum of reporters awaiting his emergence for more soundbites.

Is it any wonder that those whose lives and work are given more meaning by this pandemic (politicians, reporters, healthcare professionals) can't quite grasp the deleterious effect it has on the rest of us?!

bustercherry · 01-03-2021 2:05pm

benny79 wrote: »

I get what you are saying ForeRight and I understand a blanket ban but it isnt working and other counties aren't doing it. As someone mentioned golf is allowed in Scotland. Plus it was allowed before xmas when other sports were closed. My point is the need to open sports that are deemed less risk Golf, tennis the likes if for any other reason than to spread people out. Take some away from the parks etc.

The problem is that you keep referring to countries that didn't impose a restriction of movement of people for non-essential journeys a.k.a the 5km rule.

We all know why that was in place so I'm no going to reiterate that but when we opened up last year golfers were breaking the 5km and county restrictions flat out. A certain captains day in wicklow was all over the news if I can remember correctly.

Golf in itself may be safe but the movement of people is what spreads Covid from communities, if you open golf then other sports and segments have to open which ultimately increases the movement of people and risk of it spreading. There are higher priory segments that will open first, schools & construction, including allowing people to move more freely. The arguments seem to always be that golf should be the exception which is not going to happen, it's just futile.

Imagine is Lahinch had an open but there was country travel restrictions in place? There would be people from all over the county at it because they can't help themselves, "shur what harm is it doing" :rolleyes:

Raisins · 01-03-2021 2:18pm

The Big Easy wrote: »

.

Is it any wonder that those whose lives and work are given more meaning by this pandemic (politicians, reporters, healthcare professionals) can't quite grasp the deleterious effect it has on the rest of us?!

I was with you until you went on this tangent. Anyone who has to go out and work as an essential worker, whether politician or healthcare or any others like factory workers and delivery drivers demand a lot of respect.

Healthcare workers in particular, don’t deserve to be accused of not understanding the effect of the pandemic on the rest of us.

GreeBo · 01-03-2021 2:19pm

not yet wrote: »

I played last year under the new rules, I can tell you I never came closer then I came to people out walking in the park, take what you want from that.

Yeah but it was the same people you were "close" to for those 3/4 hours, that makes a difference afaik.
In the park each "pod/bubble" doesnt interact with anyone else and is pretty much constantly moving, with golf we are standing on the tee and green beside each other for a few mins on each hole, so more chance of spreading something.

The Big Easy · 01-03-2021 2:23pm

Raisins wrote: »

I was with you until you went on this tangent. Anyone who has to go out and work as an essential worker, whether politician or healthcare or any others like factory workers and delivery drivers demand a lot of respect.

Healthcare workers in particular, don’t deserve to be accused of not understanding the effect of the pandemic on the rest of us.

I fully agree they are worthy of respect, but anyone fully engaged and allowed to be fully engaged with their own work at this time, naturally will have a different outlook and perspective on restrictions.

ForeRight · 01-03-2021 2:28pm

The Big Easy wrote: »

I fully agree they are worthy of respect, but anyone fully engaged and allowed to be fully engaged with their own work at this time, naturally will have a different outlook and perspective on restrictions.

I’m confused here. Anyone who is in work now cannot understand why golf should be going ahead?

gypsy79 · 01-03-2021 2:29pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah but it was the same people you were "close" to for those 3/4 hours, that makes a difference afaik.
In the park each "pod/bubble" doesnt interact with anyone else and is pretty much constantly moving, with golf we are standing on the tee and green beside each other for a few mins on each hole, so more chance of spreading something.

Carr golf can confirm there wasn't one case of a virus transmission at any of there courses

They are guessing and go with shut everything carte blanche

Pay peanuts....get monkeys

Seve OB · 01-03-2021 2:41pm

ForeRight wrote: »

The blanket ban I was referring to was on sports. I wasn’t comparing golf to any shops that are open which some may consider non esssntial.
If golf was open a whole world of screaming starts for government from other sports who could argue they are safe also and then the full retail, restaurants and pubs follow that was my point.

so to use your own words and flip it around a bit, some shops are open which some may consider non essential, but that is allowed. there is a world out there of other shops who are closed who are screaming at the government to say they are safe.

the point the government are making is that the ones which are open are safe (because there is no way in the world you are going to convince me that a takeaway coffee shop with queues of people gathering outside it all day long is essential).

how would opening golf but keeping gyms closed be any different to this annecdote?

ForeRight wrote: »

I understand your dads situation and it’s crap, I get that but unfortunately the bigger picture is about way more than a situation that’s quite personal to you.
My parents go nowhere. Health wise not great and they are at home with my adult special needs brother. My dad would love to go to golf too.
It’s a terrible situation for everyone. We are nearly there now though imo.

my example re my dad was more about the mental health issue which you seem to be fobbing off as a bigger problem than a well needed escape to a golf course.... it's not. be it golf, bingo, walking, a pint..... everyone has different things to help keep them sane. the lack of being able to get out to the golf course is most definitely affecting many peoples mental health

GreeBo · 01-03-2021 2:45pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Carr golf can confirm there wasn't one case of a virus transmission at any of there courses

And? There wasnt one case of transmission in many areas that are now closed.

They are guessing and go with shut everything carte blanche

Exactly what country isn't "guessing"? Do you have a Hitchhikers Guide to a Global Pandemic lying around all this time and you kept it to yourself?

Pay peanuts....get monkeys

I don't know what this means in the context of this thread....I suspect you don't know what it means either!:p

Seve OB · 01-03-2021 2:48pm

bustercherry wrote: »

Imagine is Lahinch had an open but there was country travel restrictions in place? There would be people from all over the county at it because they can't help themselves, "shur what harm is it doing" :rolleyes:

NOBODY is suggesting anything other than golf clubs should be open for their own members only

Seve OB · 01-03-2021 2:51pm

GreeBo wrote: »

In the park each "pod/bubble" doesnt interact with anyone else and is pretty much constantly moving.

HAHA I'm laughing because I think you are joking! But if you are not, have you even been in a park or on a beach? theses bubbles your speak of, will sit down on the grass or walk laps in close confines of other bubbles. i've seen lots of it as have many others here

ForeRight · 01-03-2021 3:06pm

Seve OB wrote: »

so to use your own words and flip it around a bit, some shops are open which some may consider non essential, but that is allowed. there is a world out there of other shops who are closed who are screaming at the government to say they are safe.

the point the government are making is that the ones which are open are safe (because there is no way in the world you are going to convince me that a takeaway coffee shop with queues of people gathering outside it all day long is essential).

how would opening golf but keeping gyms closed be any different to this annecdote?

my example re my dad was more about the mental health issue which you seem to be fobbing off as a bigger problem than a well needed escape to a golf course.... it's not. be it golf, bingo, walking, a pint..... everyone has different things to help keep them sane. the lack of being able to get out to the golf course is most definitely affecting many peoples mental health

Seve you seem to be missing my point. I’m not arguing what is and what isn’t essential re shops etc. I understand what you’re saying clearly with that point and as I’ve said I am completely convinced golf is safe. I’m simply saying I can understand why it’s not open yet as the situation is far more complicated that a simple black and white of what’s safe and what’s not. I’d love nothing more than to be out playing today.

In regard to golf being essential to mental health my point was that’s not a reason to open it up. Mental health that’s held together by swinging a golf club is not actually very healthy.
I understand your personal situation and can see you’re frustrated over your dad but you know yourself decisions like this don’t be made over isolated situations that are effected. Your dads situation is crap, of course and I empathise but it would be in the extreme minority.
I fully expect multiple replies now of how it’s not but let’s be honest 95% of golfers walk the course which means they can walk the park or wherever they like for fresh air and exercise.

bustercherry · 01-03-2021 3:11pm

Seve OB wrote: »

NOBODY is suggesting anything other than golf clubs should be open for their own members only

Say's who? Certain clubs will only get round it again by creating pay and play type memberships etc... Just open it up properly when the time is right and other more essential stuff has been opened up.

If it opens up with travel restrictions, we will be listening to that whinging too, plenty breaking the county rule last year.

Raisins · 01-03-2021 3:22pm

The Big Easy wrote: »

I fully agree they are worthy of respect, but anyone fully engaged and allowed to be fully engaged with their own work at this time, naturally will have a different outlook and perspective on restrictions.

You think that argument follows naturally but it doesn’t. There’s no basis for the link that because these essential workers are working they must not understand the effect the restrictions are having on others.

These people like healthcare workers would be delighted to see restrictions eased, they have lives and kids and loved ones outside of their work. It’s baseless nonsense but it’s more of the “us” and “them” mentality - they (politicians, workers etc) don’t understand how hard I have it - if they did the rules would be different.

ClutchIt · 01-03-2021 3:30pm

People use mental health as an excuse for anything nowadays. Absolute nonsense.
There's a difference between bad mental health and being annoyed or upset you can't play golf.

Miley Byrne · 01-03-2021 3:37pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Carr golf can confirm there wasn't one case of a virus transmission at any of there courses

They are guessing and go with shut everything carte blanche

Pay peanuts....get monkeys

I would argue it's literally the exact opposite of this.

Pay way over the top, still get monkeys

The Big Easy · 01-03-2021 3:58pm

Raisins wrote: »

You think that argument follows naturally but it doesn’t. There’s no basis for the link that because these essential workers are working they must not understand the effect the restrictions are having on others.

These people like healthcare workers would be delighted to see restrictions eased, they have lives and kids and loved ones outside of their work. It’s baseless nonsense but it’s more of the “us” and “them” mentality - they (politicians, workers etc) don’t understand how hard I have it - if they did the rules would be different.

Ok, I used broad terms when I shouldn't have, I apologise. In case there is some confusion I am particularly referring to those responsible/have influence in the decision-making process i.e. members of Nphet, members of cabinet, RTE and Irish newspaper editors. I am not talking about nurses and doctors working 12 hour and double and triple shifts.

Tell me that a senior HSE official or cabinet minister with a big house and large garden in the suburbs who continues to travel daily to work, having meetings with colleagues, believing they are working together to overcome the crisis of a generation can easily understand what someone living in a house/apartment share unable to work or leave the house apart from essential exercise.

I'm not saying none of them can, but not enough to bring any humanity to the process. If you think being ranked third to two totalitarian states in terms of global restriction levels is justified, fair play to you, I don't.

ForeRight · 01-03-2021 4:11pm

The Big Easy wrote: »

Ok, I used broad terms when I shouldn't have, I apologise. In case there is some confusion I am particularly referring to those responsible/have influence in the decision-making process i.e. members of Nphet, members of cabinet, RTE and Irish newspaper editors. I am not talking about nurses and doctors working 12 hour and double and triple shifts.

Tell me that a senior HSE official or cabinet minister with a big house and large garden in the suburbs who continues to travel daily to work, having meetings with colleagues, believing they are working together to overcome the crisis of a generation can easily understand what someone living in a house/apartment share unable to work or leave the house apart from essential exercise.

I'm not saying none of them can, but not enough to bring any humanity to the process. If you think being ranked third to two totalitarian states in terms of global restriction levels is justified, fair play to you, I don't.

Those said people I assume have children and family members affected by all the measures just like you or I.
Their kids still need to get home schooled, missing sports, probably play golf just like every other normal person etc. No holidays, 5k rule all applies to them also unless going to work.

Strange way to think that they are somehow out of touch due to having a garden.

The Big Easy · 01-03-2021 4:24pm

ForeRight wrote: »

Those said people I assume have children and family members affected by all the measures just like you or I.
Their kids still need to get home schooled, missing sports, probably play golf just like every other normal person etc. No holidays, 5k rule all applies to them also unless going to work.

Strange way to think that they are somehow out of touch due to having a garden.

Oh I'm sure many have children, schools seem to be the only other thing given any kind of consideration in this. And I'm sure you realise the schools would be long open if there weren't any pesky teaching unions complicating matters.

We're going off topic and I apologise for my part in that.

Im going to hit a golf ball in my back garden but I'm not out of touch, honest! :P :pac:

RoadRunner · 01-03-2021 4:29pm

Over the weekend after having a lunch a market at the royal canal like hundreds of others. I later cycled with the little one to visit bull island. We crossed the packed wooden bridge just like hundreds of thousands of other people that day. I didn't go to the spot where the coffee queue normally starts but I've seen that queue over 50 meters when the place was not busy. The futility of it all grabs you when you walk past the entrance to one of the two golf courses on the land - shoulder to shoulder with everyone living in the area. That golf is closed for our "safety" is ridiculous.

gypsy79 · 01-03-2021 4:31pm

Miley Byrne wrote: »

I would argue it's literally the exact opposite of this.

Pay way over the top, still get monkeys

There is no way in hell I would do that job for 100k

If you think TDs are overpaid then you have no idea of wages for senior jobs in Ireland.

Anybody actually qualified to do the job would need take pretty big paycut and then be a public body set for ridicule

Leo became a politcian because he was too lazy to be a doctor. Thats coming from multiple people who worked with him for example

bustercherry · 01-03-2021 4:48pm

RoadRunner wrote: »

Over the weekend after having a lunch a market at the royal canal like hundreds of others. I later cycled with the little one to visit bull island. We crossed the packed wooden bridge just like hundreds of thousands of other people that day. I didn't go to the spot where the coffee queue normally starts but I've seen that queue over 50 meters when the place was not busy. The futility of it all grabs you when you walk past the entrance to one of the two golf courses on the land - shoulder to shoulder with everyone living in the area. That golf is closed for our "safety" is ridiculous.

Dear lord, give us all the strength to endure this.

Miley Byrne · 01-03-2021 6:12pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

There is no way in hell I would do that job for 100k

If you think TDs are overpaid then you have no idea of wages for senior jobs in Ireland.

Anybody actually qualified to do the job would need take pretty big paycut and then be a public body set for ridicule

Leo became a politcian because he was too lazy to be a doctor. Thats coming from multiple people who worked with him for example

Off topic I know but if you use the analogy that a team is only as strong as its weakest player then our government is shambolic. Stephen Donnelly and Norma Foley are so out of their depth that it's bordering on criminal that those two head up two of the most important departments in the country. You say €100k? More like €180k plus the pension entitlements. Again sorry I'm off topic but these people tasked with running departments (vitally important departments at the best of times but in Covid times are actually critical to the health and well being of our people) are no where near qualified enough or competent enough to do that particular job. Donnelly is a complete moron ffs

RoadRunner · 01-03-2021 6:34pm

bustercherry wrote: »

Dear lord, give us all the strength to endure this.

Ah it was good craic though :pac:

not yet · 01-03-2021 6:41pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah but it was the same people you were "close" to for those 3/4 hours, that makes a difference afaik.
In the park each "pod/bubble" doesnt interact with anyone else and is pretty much constantly moving, with golf we are standing on the tee and green beside each other for a few mins on each hole, so more chance of spreading something.

Cannot agree with you there, last year I felt extremely safe playing golf, be it a 2 ball or 4 ball, I have walked the Phoenix park dozens of times in the past 6 months and have had joggers sweating like fcuk brush off me, numerous people passing within inches of me.

Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

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Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions