Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

Idbatterim · 24-02-2021 12:04PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Micheál Martin is an incredibly uninspiring leader. I struggle to think of any other Taoiseach in recent times who would be a worse option to have running the country at the moment.

Leo soundbite kiteflying varadkar....

Foxhound38 · 24-02-2021 12:05PM

Cushtie wrote: »

Why not just give us the ****ing numbers.

What is the number cases must be at?
What is the number in hospital must be at?
What is the number in ICU must be at?
What is the number vaccinated must be at?

Set a target, set what will happen? if we hit it we move on if we don't, we don't.

If we really exceed them, move on faster.

But jesus this mealy mouth, half speak bull**** that man came out with this evening is an insult to people. Flying kites for the last month to come out with basically the schools are going back over the month of March.

Sick of it now. They can shag of with their 5k rule.

I'm not anti-lockdown while a critical mass isn't vaccinated but you do have a point here - the political ****ehawkery and vague-speak is wearing very thin at this stage, and I swear if they send Varadker out today to muddy the waters further and work some stupid romcom line into his speech I'll throw the radio out the car window. I want data and hard facts - where are we, where do we need to be, how fast is the vaccine rollout, at what point in the rollout and decrease in cases can each sector reopen.

If they dealt in hard data and explicitly tied phased reopening to vaccine take-up and tiered it based on active cases falling below certain numbers I think they would get a lot more buy in from people.

I'm wearily waiting for Leo to come on the radio to tell us all that "not all heros wear capes" or some other trite statement... Maybe he'll show us his goofy socks again :mad:

francogarbanzo · 24-02-2021 12:06PM

richardkeiths wrote: »

Fact!

Youl never win. There will always be moaning Jimbobs who feel theyre owed more. People congregating and not taking the risk serious put us back into the lockdown. People talk about living alongside the virus, well December showed that people cant be trusted.

All you have to do is walk though every town in Ireland and see how people incorrectly wear masks or not at all. People in Ireland are too stupid, they need to be kept on lockdown

You are not owed other people behaving in any particular way.

Idbatterim · 24-02-2021 12:06PM

richardkeiths wrote: »

Im delighted the virus is something for you to scoff at.

What needs to happen for people to cop on? Does the virus need to have the mortality rate of ebola?

Were currently unvaccinated for the most part. If we open up like we did at christmas we will be in the ****ter.

People dont care thought, weve become so selfish and entitled. Imagine risk peoples lives for a haircut!

Im sure in a war people want to get back to their normal lives. But if you walk outside a bomb might go off. Its the same here.

How many deaths and cases a day are worth putting up with this crap for? Non? One? A handful?

lee_baby_simms · 24-02-2021 12:07PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'm absolutely fecking fed up of this being constantly presented as a binary choice.

But why would people think otherwise? We’ve had 12 months now of this and what is clear is that NPHET are either incapable or don’t believe in any kind of nuanced, targeted strategy.

Cases up = lockdown the entire country.

This has no doubt conditioned the vast majority of the public to believe that these are the only valid options available to us.

RGS · 24-02-2021 12:08PM

In response ACE2017.
Governments are elected to run the country. The government appoint numerous agencies to advise on various issues that affect the population.

Advisors advise, governments decide.

Numerous governments have ignored the advices of numerous agencies over the years, but in this situation all advise from NHPET must be obeyed.

The big issue a lot of people have with the government is that there is only one approach at the moment---lockdown and hope the vaccine works.

Ace2007 · 24-02-2021 12:10PM

RGS wrote: »

In response ACE2017.
Governments are elected to run the country. The government appoint numerous agencies to advise on various issues that affect the population.

Advisors advise, governments decide.

Numerous governments have ignored the advices of numerous agencies over the years, but in this situation all advise from NHPET must be obeyed.

The big issue a lot of people have with the government is that there is only one approach at the moment---lockdown and hope the vaccine works.

well that's not entirely true - the government lifted the restrictions pre=xmas - against all health advice and it's being done to death - that it was the wrong move at that time. What's your view on that - where they right to open up and go against the health advice then?

MOH · 24-02-2021 12:10PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

T
The sheer immaturity of many comments here is mind boggling. The government does not want the country closed, they want an end to this thing and when they achieve that then they will open things. A reasonable plan at Christmas was totally derailed by people taking the piss and by the introduction of the new variant which behaves differently. Consequently, the government does not give hard and fast information about what will happen in 6 months time as they do not know. They cannot know, as they cannot fully predict whether people will act responsibly, they cannot predict the evolution of a new virus and the virus manufacturers have already shown that they will renege on their commitments. By all means criticise the government for not having the legislation to control quarantine, or something else that they can control, but the pointless ranting about things they cannot control is both an insult to the many ill and bereaved people and it makes eejits out of the posters who post it.

The constant defence of an incompetent government is far more of an insult to the ill and bereaved people they've failed to protect.

Here's an article about a new Covid variant feared to be more aggressive and transmissible. From before we even had a single known case. Yet the Tanaiste claims when we drafted the Living with Covid plan we didn't know about the possibility of variants. Over 50% of the cases last autumn were from a new variant, and nobody in authority considered the possibility that the next one might be more problematic and prepared contingency plans.

The ongoing claims that a new variant was a totally unpredictable event for which the Government can take no blame is an outright lie. It's pure political self-preservation, which is why it's become the new mantra.

Other countries have used border controls and enhanced contact tracing to help deal with variants.

Here, we've had absolutely zero travel restrictions since the start of the pandemic. We only implemented mandatory home quarantine after travel two weeks ago. We only started looking for negative tests on arrival in the middle of January.

Despite the WHO recommending it since the start of the pandemic as one of the key ways of halting the spread of the disease, we've never had proper contact tracing. And the chair of the NPHET Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group publicly dismissed the retrospective tracing necessary to identify clusters as "an academic exercise" last September. Despite the recent claims from the deputy CMO that NPHET have been pushing for retrospective contact tracing since last August. If the CMO had spent a fraction of the time pushing for that as he did obsessing over alcohol we might be in a better position.

The public can't implement travel restrictions. The public can't apply proper contact tracing procedures. The public have shouldered the entire burden of our coronavirus response through repeated lockdowns while two successive governments have done nothing - literally, nothing - to proactively curb the spread of coronavirus.

And now we have a new plan which basically boils down to open the schools and wait for a vaccine. But most important of all, and the cornerstone of Ireland's coronavirus response: shift the blame.

rob316 · 24-02-2021 12:11PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

But why would people think otherwise? We’ve had 12 months now of this and what is clear is that NPHET are either incapable or don’t believe in any kind of nuanced, targeted strategy.

Cases up = lockdown the entire country.

This has no doubt conditioned the vast majority of the public to believe that these are the only valid options available to us.

NPHET as far as I'm concerned are doing their job, one less death for them or one less day the health service isnt on the verge of collapse they will always take.

The government are the ones failing us, they keep saying we will go with the public health advice. That is only advice, you make decisions based on all advice. That roadmap was an absolute joke and their defense of it even worse. "Drive by data not dates"

Klonker · 24-02-2021 12:13PM

Why is Ireland the special case in Europe when it comes to reopening? Why when we have one of the best trends on infection, one of the lowest rates of infection, one of the youngest populations, one of the most efficient vaccination rates so far that we have by far, not in any way close to anyone else, the slowest reopening in the EU from a position when we already have the tightest restrictions? It makes no sense at all.

And what makes even less sense is that none of this is questioned at all by our media or journalists. All they seem to be interesting in is the red herring that is variants and mandatory quarentining.

copeyhagen · 24-02-2021 12:14PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

well that's not entirely true - the government lifted the restrictions pre=xmas - against all health advice and it's being done to death - that it was the wrong move at that time. What's your view on that - where they right to open up and go against the health advice then?

yes the were right to open for Xmas.

they were WRONG to shut up shop for so long before December, which caused the Xmas issue. thats their fault.

richardkeiths · 24-02-2021 12:15PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

How many deaths and cases a day are worth putting up with this crap for? Non? One? A handful?

So youl cannablise people so you can get a haircut.

I put it to you.

What do we do?

Open up and go on as normal? Potentially leading to a complete collapse of our health system. Huge contagion and deaths and ultimately an economic collapse.

Would you choose the current scenario over that one?

You people wouldnt have managed well during the black death or WW2. Youre not owed anything

ArthurDayne · 24-02-2021 12:15PM

richardkeiths wrote: »

People in Ireland are too stupid, they need to be kept on lockdown

I feel like I’ve just stumbled into a time machine and fallen out in some sort of Victorian London gentlemen’s smoking club where they are joking about the feckless apes on that sorry little island to the west.

One of the most depressing things from this pandemic has been this weak-kneed staring-at-our-feet attitude that Irish people truly are just feckless mindless lemmings that need the firm hand of smarter civilised types to save them from themselves. People bang on about other countries as if their citizens formed part of some master race, while we would just stumble around the roads vomiting in corners and then going home, riddled with Covid, and give granny a big hug because “ah sure it’ll be grand”. Paddy is too thick — and needs a strong hand from above to stop him killing everyone around him.

This self-deprecating deference to old colonial stereotypes is as embarrassing as it is sickening.

richardkeiths · 24-02-2021 12:18PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

I feel like I’ve just stumbled into a time machine and fallen out in some sort of Victorian London gentlemen’s smoking club where they are joking about the feckless apes on that sorry little island to the west.

One of the most depressing things from this pandemic has been this weak-kneed staring-at-our-feet attitude that Irish people truly are just feckless mindless lemmings that need the firm hand of smarter civilised types to save them from themselves. People bang on about other countries as if their citizens formed part of some master race, while we would just stumble around the roads vomiting in corners and then going home, riddled with Covid, and give granny a big hug because “ah sure it’ll be grand”. Paddy is too thick — and needs a strong hand from above to stop him killing everyone around him.

This self-deprecating deference to old colonial stereotypes is as embarrassing as it is sickening.

I think the shebeens and massive funerals did that alone.

niallo27 · 24-02-2021 12:19PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

well that's not entirely true - the government lifted the restrictions pre=xmas - against all health advice and it's being done to death - that it was the wrong move at that time. What's your view on that - where they right to open up and go against the health advice then?

It wasn't against all health advice, nphet recommended opening hospitality or house visits. They did not recommended to stay in level 5 but God forbid anyone questions Tony our lord and saviour.

copeyhagen · 24-02-2021 12:19PM

richardkeiths wrote: »

So youl cannablise people so you can get a haircut.

I put it to you.

What do we do?

Open up and go on as normal? Potentially leading to a complete collapse of our health system. Huge contagion and deaths and ultimately an economic collapse.

Would you choose the current scenario over that one?

You people wouldnt have managed well during the black death or WW2. Youre not owed anything

Sweden hasnt faired too bad? dont see them collapsing.

this BS of "if we dont do what we're doing, the world will end", in nothing but that, BS

OwenM · 24-02-2021 12:20PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Is anyone else concerned about all of the eggs being put into the vaccine basket?

Suppose we get the whole of the country vaccinated (I don't think this should be the metric by which we're given our rights back, but bear with me) by July. Things open back up, we're onto Level 2. By September we're at Level 0 (laughable, I know.)

And then a variant comes along that is completely resistant to our current vaccine, or at least resistant enough to spread as easily as it does now and infect as easily despite the vaccinated public. What then? Is it back to lockdown until another vaccine is created and distributed?

Obviously it's good that we're rolling out the vaccine, but I'm concerned that it's not being coupled with an actual "living alongside COVID" plan. The current Living With COVID™ is simply a "keep our heads down until we're vaccinated" plan. If this doesn't work, what then? What's our plan B?

And we all die of hiccups which is the new symptom of your imaginary new strain. There have been thousands of strains so far and none have been proven to significantly evade the vaccines we have. Also the vaccines are slowing transmission significantly which reduces the evolution of strains. Go find something else to worry about.

Ace2007 · 24-02-2021 12:21PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

yes the were right to open for Xmas.

they were WRONG to shut up shop for so long before December, which caused the Xmas issue. thats their fault.

So you believe the current government in power, were right to open before xmas.
This goes against the public health advice, and further more all opposition parties have come out and given out that the governement did this.

However you believe they were right, now you believe they are wrong in what they are doing in keeping the lockdown- but not other opposition party has said they should lift the restricitons.

So all in all - you don't agree with any policitical party in the country

lee_baby_simms · 24-02-2021 12:23PM

rob316 wrote: »

NPHET as far as I'm concerned are doing their job, one less death for them or one less day the health service isnt on the verge of collapse they will always take.

Yes I agree. But I’d wager with a fairly high level of confidence that if you, rob316 on boards was made acting CMO for the next 2 weeks you’d perform fine. No one would know any different.

You’d monitor all the daily Covid related metrics.
You’d then go in front of the media and answer softball questions while expressing “grave concern” at the “dangerously high incidents of the disease in the community.”
Then you’d meet government and say “it is the advice of the panel (me) that currently restrictions are kept in place for the foreseeable future.”

francogarbanzo · 24-02-2021 12:23PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So you believe the current government in power, were right to open before xmas.
This goes against the public health advice, and further more all opposition parties have come out and given out that the governement did this.

However you believe they were right, now you believe they are wrong in what they are doing in keeping the lockdown- but not other opposition party has said they should lift the restricitons.

So all in all - you don't agree with any policitical party in the country

Yes.

24-02-2021 12:25PM

richardkeiths wrote: »

good man, leave a trail of disease and death behind you.

at least learn how to wear a mask if you are going to be so self entitled

I hope you’ve never left your bedroom since you were born. Because if you dared... chances are at some point you spread a flu that led to the death of an elderly person...

How can you live with yourself knowing that you’ve blood all over your hands?

Ace2007 · 24-02-2021 12:25PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Yes.

So to be clear, every representative in government or opposition was elected by the people - but you don't agree with them at all... a loan wolf so to speak

copeyhagen · 24-02-2021 12:25PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So you believe the current government in power, were right to open before xmas.
This goes against the public health advice, and further more all opposition parties have come out and given out that the governement did this.

However you believe they were right, now you believe they are wrong in what they are doing in keeping the lockdown- but not other opposition party has said they should lift the restricitons.

So all in all - you don't agree with any policitical party in the country

nephet advised to open, so good try

copeyhagen · 24-02-2021 12:26PM

richardkeiths wrote: »

https://www.google.com/search?ei=cjY2YJ6VAaqh1fAPv_iPyAI&q=sweden+coronavirus+deaths&oq=sweden+coronavirus+deat&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMYADICCAAyAggAMgUIABDJAzICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6BwgAELADEEM6BQgAELEDOgQIABBDULCzAVj-vQFgzcYBaAFwAngAgAGhAYgB5gOSAQM1LjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6yAEKwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?

1200 per million puts them at 23 globally, betetr than a good few strict EU Countries.

francogarbanzo · 24-02-2021 12:27PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So to be clear, every representative in government or opposition was elected by the people - but you don't agree with them at all... a loan wolf so to speak

Yes. That's right. No party I know of represents my view of lockdowns.

It's either lock down hard - the new plan is the same as the old plan. Or lock down even harder.

richardkeiths · 24-02-2021 12:28PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?

1200 per million puts them at 23 globally, betetr than a good few strict EU Countries.

are you stupid?

Sweden enforces stricter restrictions after light touch policies lead to higher death tolls. Its in black and white and you still come back with some nonsense.

uli84 · 24-02-2021 12:28PM

Klonker wrote: »

Why is Ireland the special case in Europe when it comes to reopening? Why when we have one of the best trends on infection, one of the lowest rates of infection, one of the youngest populations, one of the most efficient vaccination rates so far that we have by far, not in any way close to anyone else, the slowest reopening in the EU from a position when we already have the tightest restrictions? It makes no sense at all.

And what makes even less sense is that none of this is questioned at all by our media or journalists. All they seem to be interesting in is the red herring that is variants and mandatory quarentining.

Wise words but none of it ever made sense in here and I wouldn’t look for it knowing who is in charge.

copeyhagen · 24-02-2021 12:29PM

richardkeiths wrote: »

are you stupid?

Sweden enforces stricter restrictions after light touch policies lead to higher death tolls. Its in black and white and you still come back with some nonsense.

3 weeks in Jan/Feb is hardly bad.

2 weeks in 2020 sounds like theyre approach trumps ours.

and also, my entire point (which u fooking ignored) was that they dont have mental excessive deaths like ye are saying we would have if we dont stay locked down forever

Ace2007 · 24-02-2021 12:32PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

nephet advised to open, so good try

No Nphet stated that restaurants should only be allowed to do takeaways, however the cabinet sub committee gave the green light to open the restaurants given the huge pressure in the media and public looking for it..

francogarbanzo · 24-02-2021 12:33PM

OwenM wrote: »

And we all die of hiccups which is the new symptom of your imaginary new strain. There have been thousands of strains so far and none have been proven to significantly evade the vaccines we have. Also the vaccines are slowing transmission significantly which reduces the evolution of strains. Go find something else to worry about.

Well, let's hope absolutely nothing goes wrong then!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings