Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

Deeec · 23-02-2021 09:46AM

This government is a shambles. What happened last night was embarrassing. Politicians should'nt be allowed to have twitter accounts. They just cant resist posting to try and increase their profile.
They also should not be allowed discuss anything with the media which has not been formally announced by government. We will wait and see what is announced this evening. Hopefully we will have clarity on what is happening next week.

lulublue22 · 23-02-2021 09:50AM

Locotastic wrote: »

Where did Nphet say only Junior and Senior infants should go back?

Apparently in the letter they send to cabinet before it meets. As is no one knows hence the use of the word apparently in both my posts and the use of the word if in the original post you responded to. The entire thread is based on hearsay and speculation via gov leaks and media articles and posters opinions on same. If you are looking for a factual discussion then you will need to wait for the cabinet decision this evening / tomorrow and the subsequent publication of NPHET’s letter.

joe40 · 23-02-2021 09:51AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Making a statement in the Commons, the Prime Minister said: “The threat remains substantial with the numbers in hospital only now beginning to fall below the peak of the first wave in April.

“But we are able to take these steps because of the resolve of the British people and the extraordinary success of our NHS in vaccinating more than 17.5 million people across the UK.”

He added that “no vaccine can ever be 100% effective”, telling MPs: “So, as the modelling released by Sage today shows, we cannot escape the fact that lifting lockdown will result in more cases, more hospitalisations and sadly more deaths.

“And this would happen whenever lockdown is lifted – whether now or in six or nine months – because there will always be some vulnerable people who are not protected by the vaccines.

“There is therefore no credible route to a zero Covid Britain, or indeed, a zero Covid world and we cannot persist indefinitely with restrictions that debilitate our economy, our physical and mental wellbeing and the life chances of our children.”

Hats off to Boris Johnson, hopefully we'll all emerge from covid19 land and accept that there are risks in life.

In terms of education, I can only talk for Northern Ireland but in secondary the exam years aren't back until March 22 and everyone else off until after Easter.
The exams have already been cancelled so grades will be teacher assessed this year again with all the problems of standarisation and fairness involved.

For all our issues I think kids in the republic are doing better.

downthemiddle · 23-02-2021 09:53AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Making a statement in the Commons, the Prime Minister said: “The threat remains substantial with the numbers in hospital only now beginning to fall below the peak of the first wave in April.

“But we are able to take these steps because of the resolve of the British people and the extraordinary success of our NHS in vaccinating more than 17.5 million people across the UK.”

He added that “no vaccine can ever be 100% effective”, telling MPs: “So, as the modelling released by Sage today shows, we cannot escape the fact that lifting lockdown will result in more cases, more hospitalisations and sadly more deaths.

“And this would happen whenever lockdown is lifted – whether now or in six or nine months – because there will always be some vulnerable people who are not protected by the vaccines.

“There is therefore no credible route to a zero Covid Britain, or indeed, a zero Covid world and we cannot persist indefinitely with restrictions that debilitate our economy, our physical and mental wellbeing and the life chances of our children.”

Hats off to Boris Johnson, hopefully we'll all emerge from covid19 land and accept that there are risks in life.

Second highest death rate in the world, only beaten by the Trump regime. Hats off to him is right.

joe40 · 23-02-2021 09:55AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Second highest death rate in the world, only beaten by the Trump regime. Hats off to him is right.

Absolutely, they got a jump on the vaccine which is to their credit, but the NHS deserve massive praise for that not the tory party.

jrosen · 23-02-2021 10:16AM

It’s incredibly unprofessional the way the government are conducting themselves. For one to give X statement on drive time tv then Donnelly to say nope we are not sure pause that and at the same time he’s on tv an update comes through the RTÉ app with school dates.

A Shaved Duck? · 23-02-2021 10:21AM

joe40 wrote: »

Absolutely, they got a jump on the vaccine which is to their credit, but the NHS deserve massive praise for that not the tory party.

Yep and the only reason they got that jump was due to Brexit, which is currently in the process of ruining their own economy.

Stateofyou · 23-02-2021 10:27AM

threescompany wrote: »

This is incredibly frustrating & shocking .... Foley is still “negotiating” with the unions.

The government have no backbone. No decision making skills. They must call the shots and just make a decision based on the advice presented to them from NPHET. Plain & simple.

The government don't seem to be willing to put the hard work and proper funding in where required in improving our education (or health) sectors. They haven't got the capability to be forward thinking trail blazers either.

This all should have been hammered out MONTHS ago.

If they can't bring health and safety standards up to meet this new variant then the unions should step in. This is their duty and what they are actually created to do. It's complete BS that they even have to step in at all, such is the ineptitude of this government.

penny piper · 23-02-2021 10:34AM

dirkmeister wrote: »

She’s on the children’s side, Khalessi.

I think it’s great that she is, can’t wait to see the EPSEN Act finally commenced in its entirety.

The only side Norma Foley is on is the side that she thinks will climb her up the ladder of the Fianna Fail party....she's been/is a disgraceful education minister to both teachers/students.

joe40 · 23-02-2021 10:38AM

Stateofyou wrote: »

The government don't seem to be willing to put the hard work and proper funding in where required in improving our education (or health) sectors. They haven't got the capability to be forward thinking trail blazers either.

This all should have been hammered out MONTHS ago.

If they can't bring health and safety standards up to meet this new variant then the unions should step in. This is their duty and what they are actually created to do. It's complete BS that they even have to step in at all, such is the ineptitude of this government.

I disagree, public health and health and safety standards should be decided by experts/professionals in that field.
I'm a teacher so this is not teacher bashing but teachers are not the only stakeholders in education.
I'm also a parent and some of the things before Christmas were ludicrous.
Children been taught in freezing classrooms, a silly 72 hours before handling paper, just came across as petty.

Stateofyou · 23-02-2021 10:47AM

joe40 wrote: »

I disagree, public health and health and safety standards should be decided by experts/professionals in that field.
I'm a teacher so this is not teacher bashing but teachers are not the only stakeholders in education.
I'm also a parent and some of the things before Christmas were ludicrous.
Children been taught in freezing classrooms, a silly 72 hours before handling paper, just came across as petty.

Wouldn't you say WHO is comprised of experts / professionals in their field? They have recommended children over the age of 6 wear masks in certain situations, especially where community transmission is high. They have said (Mike Ryan) children age 10 and older can transmit and spread the virus at least as well as adults do. And this was before the new variant was dominant. That is being ignored.

NPHET have recommended hand washing, sanitising, ventilation, testing/tracing, social distancing and mask wearing. Yet the pods/bubbles in the small, overcrowded classrooms is a complete FARCE. Social distancing is not possible especially in primary. Many schools/room do not have adequate ventilation. The testing/tracing has effectively collapsed twice, and the definition of a close contact in the school sector is different from ANYWHERE else.

Why do you think this is, and who do you think chose to change it? It wasn't NPHET. NPHET haven't been listened to time and time again. So that point isn't really going to stand...
Not sure what you mean by coming across as petty?

Edit to add: I'm also a parent.

glack · 23-02-2021 10:49AM

As a teacher, I can’t wait to go back to school. However I won’t lie, I am concerned about the speed at which primary will reopen. Half our large school reopens Monday. And for the children/staff/parents involved, it’s as if the entire school has reopened. They never see the rest of us anyway with the way our yards and staff room is organised this year for Covid. And the rest of the school is back 2 weeks later anyway.

At this rate, would we not be better to all go back on Monday?

penny piper · 23-02-2021 10:53AM

Stateofyou wrote: »

The government don't seem to be willing to put the hard work and proper funding in where required in improving our education (or health) sectors. They haven't got the capability to be forward thinking trail blazers either.

This all should have been hammered out MONTHS ago.

If they can't bring health and safety standards up to meet this new variant then the unions should step in. This is their duty and what they are actually created to do. It's complete BS that they even have to step in at all, such is the ineptitude of this government.

I agree entirely...idk where the unions are on this matter..it seems to have become unimportant...just a case of opening up.....Next comes Michael Martins "living with covid" mantra....something without stepping up vaccinations is not going to happen...another lockdown.....disgraceful leadership all round

wirelessdude01 · 23-02-2021 10:56AM

joe40 wrote: »

I disagree, public health and health and safety standards should be decided by experts/professionals in that field.
I'm a teacher so this is not teacher bashing but teachers are not the only stakeholders in education.
I'm also a parent and some of the things before Christmas were ludicrous.
Children been taught in freezing classrooms, a silly 72 hours before handling paper, just came across as petty.

Petty in what way?

You had some on here complaining that windows weren't open, yet we have your good self complaining that they were open. The 72 hours thing I believe came from the official reopening schools document from The DES.

am_zarathustra · 23-02-2021 11:06AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Petty in what way?

You had some on here complaining that windows weren't open, yet we have your good self complaining that they were open. The 72 hours thing I believe came from the official reopening schools document from The DES.

Exactly I think it was the libraries had recommended it based on their own advice so it was adopted across the board. At that point comogenic transfer rate wasn't fully understood.

I'll be keeping all my windows open, in line with every single public health expert given its a more transmissible varient.......kids put coats on and we had no complaints.

Warbeastrior · 23-02-2021 11:12AM

Classrooms have to stay above 18Â°.

How is this going to be viable with all windows open.

(I'm in favour of keeping all windows open as we simply need the air circulation)

Another example of the government wanting to open the schools at all costs to appease the crowd that are ranting and raving about wanting children back in a school building.

TTLF · 23-02-2021 11:15AM

I'm pretty happy to go back (if I can that is) but I have a question for you all.

Don't you think that they're trying to "rush back" everyone to school a little too quickly?

Maybe Secondary isn't too bad, only 6th/5th years back until the 12th of April, but they seem pretty quick to rush basically all of primary back over a 2 week period... just doesn't seem okay to do currently with the numbers and level of infection...

I thought the point of a phased return was to do it very slowly over time?

Also, as much as I want to return, isn't it a bit risky to be sending back the worst group of Covid catchers/spreaders below healthcare workers first? I mean most of us if not all are basically in the 18-21 bracket along with college students.

joe40 · 23-02-2021 11:20AM

Did NPHET say that windows had to be open all the time or was it the depts interpretation of the medical advice.

I want the public health advice to come unambiguously from public health experts.

It may be that want to give vague advice so then what actually happens is open to interpretation.

I certainly didn't have windows open in freezing conditions and Pupils weren't wearing masks in class where I work.

I was careful about social distancing at all times and ventilated the room frequently but leaving windows open in freezing conditions is not necessary.

If NPHET have clearly said windows should stay open at all times regardless of weather conditions then I'll review my opinion.

SusanC10 · 23-02-2021 11:25AM

TTLF wrote: »

I'm pretty happy to go back (if I can that is) but I have a question for you all.

Don't you think that they're trying to "rush back" everyone to school a little too quickly?

Maybe Secondary isn't too bad, only 6th/5th years back until the 12th of April, but they seem pretty quick to rush basically all of primary back over a 2 week period... just doesn't seem okay to do currently with the numbers and level of infection...

I thought the point of a phased return was to do it very slowly over time?

Also, as much as I want to return, isn't it a bit risky to be sending back the worst group of Covid catchers/spreaders below healthcare workers first? I mean most of us if not all are basically in the 18-21 bracket along with college students.

Personally, I am concerned that the Primary return is too fast given where we are with Case Numbers and with how few have been vaccinated.

It is one of the reasons that we are not sending our 5th Class child back to school until after Easter.

Icyseanfitz · 23-02-2021 11:39AM

Ji to second class is not a phased return in primary, ridiculous

Stateofyou · 23-02-2021 11:46AM

Aren't the official ventilation guidelines that the windows should be open fully when not in the room, and partially when in the room? Not sure if that's all DES interpreting/implementing ventilation as they see fit (and considering stretched heating budgets) or explicitly directly by NPHET.

Maybe someone else knows...

Another point: Many classrooms don't have functioning windows. Is this even being acknowledged? Have principles / inspectors raised this issue where appropriate and then been able to source funding for ventilation systems or rental of a different space? Yeah right. It's just ignored like the social distancing issue, the mask issue, the traveling/eating lunch together issue, the close contact definition issue, the lack of an enhanced dedicated testing/tracing system, dwindling or depleted cleaning/heating budgets, lack of remote learning choice for more vulnerable students and people, etc..

MarshmallowPop · 23-02-2021 12:08PM

Yes, what our principal told us last week is that windows should be fully open when pupils are not in the room, like before and after school, during yard times etc. The windows should be open ajar when pupils are in the room.

Hopefully with the weather improving, we will be able to fully open windows soon.

Might as well fly to New York with 30+ passengers and little ventilation if you can't open windows on crappy days and children are stuck inside all day.

Icyseanfitz · 23-02-2021 12:09PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Aren't the official ventilation guidelines that the windows should be open fully when not in the room, and partially when in the room? Not sure if that's all DES interpreting/implementing ventilation as they see fit (and considering stretched heating budgets) or explicitly directly by NPHET.

Maybe someone else knows...

Another point: Many classrooms don't have functioning windows. Is this even being acknowledged? Have principles / inspectors raised this issue where appropriate and then been able to source funding for ventilation systems or rental of a different space? Yeah right. It's just ignored like the social distancing issue, the mask issue, the traveling/eating lunch together issue, the close contact definition issue, the lack of an enhanced dedicated testing/tracing system, dwindling or depleted cleaning/heating budgets, lack of remote learning choice for more vulnerable students and people, etc..

We are basically going back with all the issues that we had before Christmas left unfixed and new variants into the mix

Stateofyou · 23-02-2021 12:16PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

We are basically going back with all the issues that we had before Christmas left unfixed and new variants into the mix

Exactly. Sickens me. Angers me too when I think too much about it. :mad:

Will have to see what the plan is. Waiting to see will we keep our kids home a while longer or not. And of course we would then be going it alone.

I have developed a strong loathing for these shower of inepts supposedly "leading" this country. :mad:

Icyseanfitz · 23-02-2021 12:35PM

Is the 40% reduction from after Christmas in the cleaning budget still a thing

23-02-2021 12:36PM

This is not a phased opening of schools.

Nor has there been any introduction of additional safety measures for staff or children.

What in the name of God do our Unions do for us?

penny piper · 23-02-2021 12:45PM

TheTorment wrote: »

This is not a phased opening of schools.

Nor has there been any introduction of additional safety measures for staff or children.

What in the name of God do our Unions do for us?

Seemingly the unions have done nothing to clarify safety issues ....It's also very poor that teachers have to learn about their return to work through the media.

PeterPan92 · 23-02-2021 12:47PM

TheTorment wrote: »

This is not a phased opening of schools.

Nor has there been any introduction of additional safety measures for staff or children.

What in the name of God do our Unions do for us?

Anyone who voted "yes" to the most recent INTO ballot is in part to blame here as well. By voting yes, INTO cannot engage in any strike action for 2 years. So they have no bargaining chip, so to speak.
ASTI and TUI both voted no, hence why secondary schools are getting an actual phased reopening. INTO are powerless.

Mrsmum · 23-02-2021 12:59PM

penny piper wrote: »

Does anyone know what happens regarding the geography field trip that was to be completed?

It's done in my son's school.

Stateofyou · 23-02-2021 01:00PM

PeterPan92 wrote: »

Anyone who voted "yes" to the most recent INTO ballot is in part to blame here as well. By voting yes, INTO cannot engage in any strike action for 2 years. So they have no bargaining chip, so to speak.
ASTI and TUI both voted no, hence why secondary schools are getting an actual phased reopening. INTO are powerless.

I didn't know that. :eek:
WTF.
So you're saying the INTO union pulled out the rug from under their own feet and now they can't even serve the purpose they were created for? How...?!
Have you or anyone a link to this info, something is very weird here.

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01