Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

KrustyUCC

Warbeastrior wrote: »

I know a girl that works in a junior school.

Junior, senior, 1st and 2nd class. 800 in the school.

Is that a cautious return? Thats madness.

Yes it's a cautious return overall

Half primary school classes on the 1st and 1/6 years in secondary school

Junior schools are not very prevalent in many counties

wirelessdude01

We worked out today that a return of just the junior classes only means that 13 families aren't travelling to our school every day. Most of our families have kids in multiple classes across the school.

KrustyUCC

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We worked out today that a return of just the junior classes only means that 13 families aren't travelling to our school every day. Most of our families have kids in multiple classes across the school.

13 out of how many?

At least that's 13 less families arriving in school for 2 weeks

yerwanthere123

I know it won't happen, but imagine the sh*tstorm if Micheál announces it's only Juniors & Seniors back at primary level :eek:

wirelessdude01

KrustyUCC wrote: »

13 out of how many?

At least that's 13 less families arriving in school for 2 weeks

Out of 84

Zaney

Warbeastrior wrote: »

I know a girl that works in a junior school.

Junior, senior, 1st and 2nd class. 800 in the school.

Is that a cautious return? Thats madness.

Infants and 1st/2nd have a different finish time so split the pick up problem in half.

Once inside the school the classes are segregated, so I don’t see a very significant difference between a class of 30 in a single stream school to a class of 30 in a multiple stream school. I’m sure I’ll be told of brief passing in corridors or something.

Then add in the likelihood of siblings and you have fewer households than your student numbers.

Do you think every other 6 and 7 year old child in the country should be kept home because of the one school you know of (and the very small number of similar schools)?

[edited cause I made a mistake]

penny piper

TTLF wrote: »

Hasn't happened in my school yet either. No idea what we'll do since we're meant to go to Wicklow.

Hasn't been done in 2-3 other schools friends of mine are in too.

Well I think the reasoning behind it at the time was because it wasn't safe

to bring 60plus students across Dublin /by dart and then walk them through howth/beach....

wirelessdude01

Zaney wrote: »

Half the school children will still be at home. So reduce that 800 to 400. Infants and 1st/2nd have a different finish time so split the pick up problem in half again.

Once inside the school the classes are segregated, so I don’t see a very significant difference between a class of 30 in a single stream school to a class of 30 in a multiple stream school. I’m sure I’ll be told of brief passing in corridors or something.

Then add in the likelihood of siblings and you have fewer households than your student numbers.

Do you think every other 6 and 7 year old child in the country should be kept home because of the one school you know of (and the very small number of similar schools)?

Pointy being in that school it is a full FULL return. No phased return. Big bang, pack all 800 in and the type of school where no social distancing is required at all.

Zaney

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Pointy being in that school it is a full FULL return. No phased return. Big bang, pack all 800 in and the type of school where no social distancing is required at all.

Sorry yes, corrected my mistake in last post, in this one example full 800 students would return.

Nationally it is a phased return with less than half of schoolchildren returning to school.

Notice you didn’t answer my question.

joe40

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Pointy being in that school it is a full FULL return. No phased return. Big bang, pack all 800 in and the type of school where no social distancing is required at all.

How else could a phased return have been completed.

The issue with schools according to NPHET wasn't just the kids in the buildings it was the transport required to get kids from home to school.
So this is a phased return of the national population of school kids, even if some buildings will be at their capacity.

It may not be ideal but would it be feasible to tell half of a ji and si class of a particular school to stay at home, while other kids in the country of the same age are back at school.

History Queen

joe40 wrote: »

How else could a phased return have been completed.

The issue with schools according to NPHET wasn't just the kids in the buildings it was the transport required to get kids from home to school.
So this is a phased return of the national population of school kids, even if some buildings will be at their capacity.

It may not be ideal but would it be feasible to tell half of a ji and si class of a particular school to stay at home, while other kids in the country of the same age are back at school.

I'm not sure about primary schools but at second level I think week on week off would have been feasible. It would immediately half class sizes and allow for social distancing. I and others had been looking for this before schools opened last September.

wirelessdude01

Zaney wrote: »

Sorry yes, corrected my mistake in last post, in this one example full 800 students would return.

Nationally it is a phased return with less than half of schoolchildren returning to school.

Notice you didn’t answer my question.

You didn't ask me any question. I was pointing out how you were mistaken in your reply to the poster

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

I'm not sure about primary schools but at second level I think week on week off would have been feasible. It would immediately half class sizes and allow for social distancing. I and others had been looking for this before schools opened last September.

And as was suggested in the original reopening schools document but never heard tell of again. The blended/hybrid approach was forgotten about. Could be because it wasn't Norma's idea.

joe40

History Queen wrote: »

I'm not sure about primary schools but at second level I think week on week off would have been feasible. It would immediately half class sizes and allow for social distancing. I and others had been looking for this before schools opened last September.

Yeah that might have worked. I think you would have to reduce the content delivered but may have been better in the long run.

wirelessdude01

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah that might have worked. I think you would have to reduce the content delivered but may have been better in the long run.

That was also suggested but never actioned.

The policy was to stick the head in the sand and cross all toes and fingers on the hope that what happened wouldn't occur. A deaf and blind mouse could have predicted this.

History Queen

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah that might have worked, you would half the content delivered but may have been better in the long run.

Not necessarily, it'd have to be a different approach to teaching and would probably work better in some subjects than others. Fair enough all content may not be covered but I think you'd manage more than half. I'd be thinking intensive teaching while face to face with project work/exampapers/homework during the week they are home.

Anyway it's all only talk now as it was never seriously considered as far as I know.

Edit:I see u edited while I typed, I agree re reduced content just didn't agree with it needing to be divided in half.

Mrsmum

penny piper wrote: »

Well I think the reasoning behind it at the time was because it wasn't safe

to bring 60plus students across Dublin /by dart and then walk them through howth/beach....

That is a huge cohort of students doing LC geography in one school. The school must be enormous. The school my son goes to has 750 pupils but only 16 are doing geography for LC which is an optional subject. They went to Wicklow for the field trip in Oct last and then spent three weeks at it in school. It might be cancelled now as other schools haven't done theirs but that's then three weeks for them down the drain.

I cant understand the logic, if it's not safe for normal life to return, how can it be safe for children and staff to return when children are now becoming far more contagious? I won't be sending my children back into a hotbed and being used as a guinea pig.

Trinity College professor Tomás Ryan said comparing the positivity rate in schools to that in the community was “a nonsense comparison”.

Mr Ryan is a member of the Independent Scientific Advocacy Group and said children “contribute to community spread” of the virus.

“It is not a like with like comparison. Schools are not safe, schools are safe when the community around them is safe. Children do get infected and do contribute to the infection rate within the community,” he told Today with Claire Byrne.

“The B117 variant that is now dominant in Ireland is more infectious to children. It is not true that the only risk to schools reopening are the parents moving around it. That is not true, this virus does infect children and they do contribute to community spread.

“Some very relevant modelling done recently in the UK suggested that if you opened all of the primary schools, you certainly will increase the R number in the country significantly. The same is likely true of Ireland,” he added.

https://www.independent.ie/news/new-variant-more-infectious-among-children-trinity-professor-says-schools-only-safe-when-community-is-40117845.html

Students, including schoolchildren aged 16 and over, had one of the highest rates of Covid-19 infection during the pandemic’s third wave, according to figures obtained by the Irish Independent.

Data reveals 6,701 – or 6.04pc – cases were in the category of students including schoolchildren.

The figures released by the Department of Health relate to the 135,565 confirmed cases of Covid-19 notified to the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC) between November 19, 2020 and February 8.

Of those, 112,278 were aged between 16 and 67 – when active employment is most likely.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/students-have-highest-covid-infection-rates-after-health-workers-in-third-wave-40100677.html

History Queen

Mrsmum wrote: »

That is a huge cohort of students doing LC geography in one school. The school must be enormous. The school my son goes to has 750 pupils but only 16 are doing geography for LC which is an optional subject. They went to Wicklow for the field trip in Oct last and then spent three weeks at it in school. It might be cancelled now as other schools haven't done theirs but that's then three weeks for them down the drain.

The school I work in is a little smaller than your son's school and we have two LC Geography classes, 58 students. It doesn't necessarily relate to school size.

Edit: also, according to information released so far about the LC, project work is optional so I think that's to take account of fact that some schools have it completed and some not.

Warbeastrior

Can someone please explain to me how it's safe to have 25 kids in a room when these new varients affect Children as much as adults???

No social distancing.
No masks.

Doesn't matter if it's only junior infants returning or the whole school?

Mrsmum

History Queen wrote: »

The school I work in is a little smaller than your son's school and we have two LC Geography classes, 58 students. It doesn't necessarily relate to school size.

Edit: also, according to information released so far about the LC, project work is optional so I think that's to take account of fact that some schools have it completed and some not.

I get you. Geography obviously not a popular choice in his school so, unlike other schools.

Mrsmum

History Queen wrote: »

I'm not sure about primary schools but at second level I think week on week off would have been feasible. It would immediately half class sizes and allow for social distancing. I and others had been looking for this before schools opened last September.

Until after Easter I would like that system. Pity they won't do it even as I say just for the first few weeks back. Weather better after that. More people vaccinated. Would have made sense to me.

History Queen

History Queen wrote: »

The school I work in is a little smaller than your son's school and we have two LC Geography classes, 58 students. It doesn't necessarily relate to school size.

Edit: also, according to information released so far about the LC, project work is optional so I think that's to take account of fact that some schools have it completed and some not.

Just to add when I went to check what I read about project work I found this

"Coursework will proceed in subjects where these form a normal part of the examination. Additional time will be provided by the SEC for completion of this work"

So maybe students sitting exams do projects and students just opting for accredited grades don't?

Full text here: https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2021-press-releases/PR21-02-17.html

Icyseanfitz

Be interesting to see what is done with post primary SNAs that work with 6th year students on a part time basis throughout a normal week.

I'd be with all year groups myself, maybe 3 classes in the week with 6th years, will I be told to come in 9-4, mon-fri and stop working remotely with all my other kids (or probably just sit in the building for the day when I could be working with better equipment and internet from home) in order to facilitate my very independent 6th year student who doesn't actually want or need assistance.

C__MC

Been a turbelent time for 1st years given their abrubt end to primary school now this, our 1st year groups are completely overwhelmed by it all
I can forsee huge issues in that age bracket next year

iamwhoiam

C__MC wrote: »

Been a turbelent time for 1st years given their abrubt end to primary school now this, our 1st year groups are completely overwhelmed by it all
I can forsee huge issues in that age bracket next year

My neighbours girl is in 1st year . Chatting yesterday and her dad said she cries a lot and is very overwhelmed and feels so lonely , she never really got to know her new class and is a bit lost and sad

Warbeastrior

It is tough on younger students but ffs the more people that say they are going to struggle the more they will start to believe it.

It'll help build some mental resiliance. The people claiming this will have lasting damage on the majority are talking out of their hole.

Support the young people as best possible and put the head down and get through this sh*t.

PeterPan92

I have followed this thread for week, and am eventually throwing in the towel.

On one side you have the "teachers only want a holiday", "put teachers on PUP", "they never want to work" crowd who are eager to get school's open at all costs, so us pesky teachers don't get any more "time off". These are the people who won't respond to reasonable comments, or just ignore or make small of any genuine concerns and situations that are brought up.

On the other side, you have people who don't seem to want school's to open at all, with some even mentioning September(?!).

Then you have a handful of rational people (such as SusanC10, khalissi, Icyseanfitz) who seem to be trying to mediate both sides and show some rational thinking, but who are just losing a very uphill battle. So I'm out, and if you value your sanity, I'd encourage you to leave too.

iamwhoiam

Warbeastrior wrote: »

It is tough on younger students but ffs the more people that say they are going to struggle the more they will start to believe it.

It'll help build some mental resiliance. The people claiming this will have lasting damage on the majority are talking out of their hole.

Support the young people as best possible and put the head down and get through this sh*t.

We are not telling them they are going to struggle we are noting how they ARE struggling

average_runner

PeterPan92 wrote: »

I have followed this thread for week, and am eventually throwing in the towel.

On one side you have the "teachers only want a holiday", "put teachers on PUP", "they never want to work" crowd who are eager to get school's open at all costs, so us pesky teachers don't get any more "time off". These are the people who won't respond to reasonable comments, or just ignore or make small of any genuine concerns and situations that are brought up.

On the other side, you have people who don't seem to want school's to open at all, with some even mentioning September(?!).

Then you have a handful of rational people (such as SusanC10, khalissi, Icyseanfitz) who seem to be trying to mediate both sides and show some rational thinking, but who are just losing a very uphill battle. So I'm out, and if you value your sanity, I'd encourage you to leave too.

I think the School at home has worked very well for my two, 8 & 10 year old. I can honestly say the teachers gave it their all and did everything possible for the kids.


I have no problem with one going back on Monday as he misses his class mates and the teaching environment.
The other will go back 2 weeks later and can't wait also.


The school has kept cases low, a total of 6 and Covid was at a high rate in that area before xmas.


The school is very professional, very well run and the teachers are eager to get back also, going by the phone calls with them that we had and the principal feedback.