The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

Lost Ormond · 25-01-2021 7:27pm

Johnny Enright & Timmy Hammersley part of Meath hurlers coaching team for 2021

Bill Ponderosa · 26-01-2021 10:43pm

https://twitter.com/TipperaryGAA/status/1354179405363490816?s=19

Should be good

Lost Ormond · 29-01-2021 3:55pm

Thoughts on this article by Shane Brophy

https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2021/01/29/tipperary-should-make-the-bold-move-and-prioritise-underage-development-over-titles/7

Anyone know what player he talks about training with Munster Rugby Academy.

01-02-2021 1:10am

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Thoughts on this article by Shane Brophy

https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2021/01/29/tipperary-should-make-the-bold-move-and-prioritise-underage-development-over-titles/7

Anyone know what player he talks about training with Munster Rugby Academy.

Im puzzled why Brophy thinks there is some form of mutual exclusion between player development and titles? Surely we should aim to do both? Winning creates a habit. While i wouldn't dismiss a minor player for not being on a winning team, surely to god its alot better for their development if they have a medal in their arse pocket? Its no coincidence that our successful seniors have also being decorated at underage level whether we are talking about Nicky English, Eoin kelly, Paudie Maher or Jake Morris

Lost Ormond · 01-02-2021 1:27am

Deleted User wrote: »

Im puzzled why Brophy thinks there is some form of mutual exclusion between player development and titles? Surely we should aim to do both? Winning creates a habit. While i wouldn't dismiss a minor player for not being on a winning team, surely to god its alot better for their development if they have a medal in their arse pocket? Its no coincidence that our successful seniors have also being decorated at underage level whether we are talking about Nicky English, Eoin kelly, Paudie Maher or Jake Morris

Because 1 is far more important than the other. Titles are nice but if you are developing very high quality players for both inter county level and with clubs then not winning inter county age grade titles is irrelevant.

Age grade titles are still only age grade. If winning titles at minor and u21 were so important then Limerick would have been way more dominant in 2000s after 3 21 titles in a row. Plenty other examples as well.

Joe_ Public · 01-02-2021 1:37am

Small thing...he says there was talk of a failed year when minor hurlers and footballers lost all ireland finals. I dont believe that, thats nowhere near failure in anyones book.

Overall, though, i think he raises one or two fair points. The dual issue is tricky but asking kids under18 to make a definitive choice has never sat right with me. And I'd agree player development is the top priority but once you have the right systems in place i dont see there has to be any huge compromise with winning titles. Good talking points at least.

Paddico · 02-02-2021 1:57pm

https://www.the42.ie/emmet-moloney-tipperary-transfer-drom-5341347-Feb2021/

Rasputin11 · 02-02-2021 2:28pm

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Thoughts on this article by Shane Brophy

https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2021/01/29/tipperary-should-make-the-bold-move-and-prioritise-underage-development-over-titles/7

Anyone know what player he talks about training with Munster Rugby Academy.

I heard it was Ferncombe.

formerlyET · 02-02-2021 11:46pm

James Woodlock being mentioned as next minor manager.

Joe_ Public · 02-02-2021 11:54pm

formerlyET wrote: »

James Woodlock being mentioned as next minor manager.

Have a lot of time for James, would be more than happy to see him involved.

Lost Ormond · 02-02-2021 11:56pm

Rasputin11 wrote: »

I heard it was Ferncombe.

He's a decent rugby player but i would doubt it was the Munster academy. Imagine it was Munster youths u18s or at that level.

Rasputin11 · 03-02-2021 12:22pm

Lost Ormond wrote: »

He's a decent rugby player but i would doubt it was the Munster academy. Imagine it was Munster youths u18s or at that level.

Wouldn't have a clue about rugby, his Twitter profile has him playing in a Munster jersey.

Lost Ormond · 03-02-2021 12:25pm

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Wouldn't have a clue about rugby, his Twitter profile has him playing in a Munster jersey.

He didnt even play Munster u18s in interpros. From another search he played in training games for a Munster u16 team which wouldnt have extensive extra training on top of his club team

formerlyET · 03-02-2021 2:09pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Have a lot of time for James, would be more than happy to see him involved.

He has a lot of experience to bring to the role

Joe_ Public · 03-02-2021 6:02pm

formerlyET wrote: »

He has a lot of experience to bring to the role

Yes and i always liked him as a player, the way he came back after serious injury and got the maximum out of his ability as he could. And sounded thoughtful and interesting when he talked about the game too, lot of ingredients i thought could make a very good coach.

formerlyET · 03-02-2021 7:00pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes and i always liked him as a player, the way he came back after serious injury and got the maximum out of his ability as he could. And sounded thoughtful and interesting when he talked about the game too, lot of ingredients i thought could make a very good coach.

Cycling up hills with the bad leg strapped to the bike. Inject such determination into my veins.

formerlyET · 04-02-2021 1:50pm

Paddy Christie is the new manager of the Tipperary Under-20 football team

05-02-2021 12:20am

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Because 1 is far more important than the other. Titles are nice but if you are developing very high quality players for both inter county level and with clubs then not winning inter county age grade titles is irrelevant.

Age grade titles are still only age grade. If winning titles at minor and u21 were so important then Limerick would have been way more dominant in 2000s after 3 21 titles in a row. Plenty other examples as well.

Loads of examples counteract this, Cork class of 99, 04, 05 won an u21 title in 1997 and 98. Kilkenny was littered with underage titles during their 16 year dominance. Tipperary's minor class of 06 and 07 who won the u21 in 10, went on to win 3 All-Irelands. Limerick won u21s in 15 and 17. They've won 2 All-Irelands since. Most successful teams have made their mark at underage.

Underage success has always been a platform to launch us to senior success. Producing skilful hurlers is all well and good, but the fact of the matter is they will need the tools for battle at Senior level and a winning mentality is one of those tools. We've always achieved the balance of skilful hurlers and winning titles. i dont see what needs to change exactly? How exactly is putting a team of young minors out to get an absolute filleting, good for their long term development? Its as much a mental game as a physical game. I can understand it at u15, but at minor, surely its time for them to start pushing themselves a bit extra? Okay granted, i think moving to u17 was a bad idea and done in haste and ultimately, it is this that has bred this debate

Few other examples, Pat Horgan is probably one of the most skilful hurlers to ever play the game. Its highly likely he will never win an All-Ireland which is a terrible shame. Cork probably have loads of other talented hurlers that wont win an All-Ireland. Its also highly likely that Tony Kelly may not win another one. Being pretty to watch is all well and good, but i would prefer to produce a team with some fortitude and resilience in their Arsenal. Im not saying, more barn dance than ballet, but there is something unique about the Paudie Mahers and Eoin Kelly's of this world. Eoin for example wasnt just skilful. the soccer games in the schoolyard, Eoin was absolutely gunning to win.

What has been a staple of Kilkenny's success??? St Kierans. Practically an academy. Produced some unreal hurlers over the years and it all led to success. Father Tommy Maher got sick of losing to Tipperary, so developed a game that yielded much success not just for Kierans, but also Kilkenny

05-02-2021 12:26am

formerlyET wrote: »

Paddy Christie is the new manager of the Tipperary Under-20 football team

That guy is an amazing man, not just for his club, but for his community. Watched the program last week and was blown away by his commitment. One thing that struck a chord with me, he encouraged Davy Byrne to get his qualifications, not just for Davy Byrne, but considering the possibly legacy it might leave the area and that it might inspire a few kids from the flats to follow in his footsteps.

Lost Ormond · 05-02-2021 12:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

Loads of examples counteract this, Cork class of 99, 04, 05 won an u21 title in 1997 and 98. Kilkenny was littered with underage titles during their 16 year dominance. Tipperary's minor class of 06 and 07 who won the u21 in 10, went on to win 3 All-Irelands. Limerick won u21s in 15 and 17. They've won 2 All-Irelands since. Most successful teams have made their mark at underage.

Underage success has always been a platform to launch us to senior success. Producing skilful hurlers is all well and good, but the fact of the matter is they will need the tools for battle at Senior level and a winning mentality is one of those tools. We've always achieved the balance of skilful hurlers and winning titles. i dont see what needs to change exactly? How exactly is putting a team of young minors out to get an absolute filleting, good for their long term development? Its as much a mental game as a physical game. I can understand it at u15, but at minor, surely its time for them to start pushing themselves a bit extra? Okay granted, i think moving to u17 was a bad idea and done in haste and ultimately, it is this that has bred this debate

Few other examples, Pat Horgan is probably one of the most skilful hurlers to ever play the game. Its highly likely he will never win an All-Ireland which is a terrible shame. Cork probably have loads of other talented hurlers that wont win an All-Ireland. Its also highly likely that Tony Kelly may not win another one. Being pretty to watch is all well and good, but i would prefer to produce a team with some fortitude and resilience in their Arsenal. Im not saying, more barn dance than ballet, but there is something unique about the Paudie Mahers and Eoin Kelly's of this world. Eoin for example wasnt just skilful. the soccer games in the schoolyard, Eoin was absolutely gunning to win.

What has been a staple of Kilkenny's success??? St Kierans. Practically an academy. Produced some unreal hurlers over the years and it all led to success. Father Tommy Maher got sick of losing to Tipperary, so developed a game that yielded much success not just for Kierans, but also Kilkenny

My point is you cant focus too much or care too much about winning titles or even getting to all ireland finals at minor and u20. It helps but whats far more important is what you are doing with the players and that doesnt have to include winning all the time.
I dont think moving to 17s was done in haste at all. There has been different discussions around changing age grades for years and it also ties in with the minimum age to play adult hurling.

05-02-2021 1:50am

Lost Ormond wrote: »

My point is you cant focus too much or care too much about winning titles or even getting to all ireland finals at minor and u20. It helps but whats far more important is what you are doing with the players and that doesnt have to include winning all the time.
I dont think moving to 17s was done in haste at all. There has been different discussions around changing age grades for years and it also ties in with the minimum age to play adult hurling.

I'm not even saying winning titles, but to get to Croke Park and be involved at the business end of the season is huge for youngsters at the very least. To only have your first experience of Croker at Senior level?? Its risky and daft.

This experimenting is a load of nonsense and I notice there is a queue of people all of a sudden defending Paul Collins stint as minor manager. I found his style of management quite baffling, to be honest and his choppy changing nature done nothing for youngsters only perhaps ruin their confidence Served no one any good and possibly developed a further inferiority complex. Any competitive sport, boxing, rugby, soccer, etc, its a fact of life but you toughen up and you have to get results. When they go out into the working world they will be expected to produce.

I think personally that Brophy is trying to sound some way psuedo-'modern'. I dont agree with it. The more success you have the better. Its a competitive game and only the strongest survive. 'Development' is just fluff. What better development than getting to experience Croke Park? Instead, we should experiment with raw kids while Cork, Limerick and whoever else steal a march on us???

Lost Ormond · 05-02-2021 2:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not even saying winning titles, but to get to Croke Park and be involved at the business end of the season is huge for youngsters at the very least. To only have your first experience of Croker at Senior level?? Its risky and daft.

This experimenting is a load of nonsense and I notice there is a queue of people all of a sudden defending Paul Collins stint as minor manager. I found his style of management quite baffling, to be honest and his choppy changing nature done nothing for youngsters only perhaps ruin their confidence Served no one any good and possibly developed a further inferiority complex. Any competitive sport, boxing, rugby, soccer, etc, its a fact of life but you toughen up and you have to get results. When they go out into the working world they will be expected to produce.

I think personally that Brophy is trying to sound some way psuedo-'modern'. I dont agree with it. The more success you have the better. Its a competitive game and only the strongest survive. 'Development' is just fluff. What better development than getting to experience Croke Park? Instead, we should experiment with raw kids while Cork, Limerick and whoever else steal a march on us???

Its a load of nonsense. If winning at age grade was as important as you say then Galway would be very comfortable at senior level because their minors especially are always competing in Croke Park in all ireland semis/finals.

To have first experience of Croke Park as a senior is not really that daft. Its certainly not that much of a reason to put have focus on age grade success.

All age grade inter county teams are about producing better, higher quality players first and foremost. Results ultimately are irrelevant.
You can win and win ugly/playing a style that may be effective at minor which wont be at older grades or you can do something which will be far better in the long term and help produce better players for senior inter county team and the club game.
Trophies and Winning must be seen as a byproduct of development. Talking about toughening up and the working world is a load of bulls***
Success alone at age grade doesnt at all mean you will be successful at senior grade and you can get trapped into thinking that successful teams/players from these age grade teams will lead to senior success. You can get trapped by complacency and not evolving.
Losing teaches you a lot more than winning in many cases.

Bill Ponderosa · 05-02-2021 9:17am

I don't get the argument here, seems like nonsense again from Brophy.

So we concentrate on not winning at underage and then this makes it more likely for us to win at senior level?

Lost Ormond · 05-02-2021 12:11pm

Bill Ponderosa wrote: »

I don't get the argument here, seems like nonsense again from Brophy.

So we concentrate on not winning at underage and then this makes it more likely for us to win at senior level?

Its not the case that tipp would be concentrating on not winning at underage. Its that winning at underage doesnt necessarily need to happen for success at adult level.

Joe_ Public · 05-02-2021 12:35pm

It seems to me reading that article that the specific beef is the dual issue and players being forced to choose between codes at very young ages. Just my interpretation but i think the implication is that with the development academies, maybe too much pressure is being applied to kids who should just be let enjoy themselves and play as many sports as they like within reason. There may be other factors but i think that is the nub of it anyway.

05-02-2021 11:06pm

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Its a load of nonsense. If winning at age grade was as important as you say then Galway would be very comfortable at senior level because their minors especially are always competing in Croke Park in all ireland semis/finals.

To have first experience of Croke Park as a senior is not really that daft. Its certainly not that much of a reason to put have focus on age grade success.
.

Galway is a terrible example. they've literally played 2-3 games at most in underage championships. The likes of the Munster, and to a lesser extent, the Leinster teams, have to do it the hard way.

formerlyET · 18-02-2021 10:14pm

Michael Breen voted senior inter county hurler of the year by the supporters club.

robbiezero · 18-02-2021 11:05pm

formerlyET wrote: »

Michael Breen voted senior inter county hurler of the year by the supporters club.

Fair play to him. Deserving of it in a very forgettable year for the team.

Hopefully he will find some consistency this year. On his day, he is a beast, but then very anonymous on other days.

Tally Wager · 19-02-2021 8:22am

Conor Sweeney All Star ! Well deserved ! ! Fantastic Footballer , fantastic Individual ! ! !

mooz · 19-02-2021 8:40am

Is he first All-Star from Tipperary since Declan Browne won one??

The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

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