'Alternative' doctor has turned my mum off Covid vaccine

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 2:59pm #1

Okay,

I don't have too much time to type this because I am on my lunch break at work. But, as per the title to the thread, an alternative/homeopathic doctor has turned my mum agsainst the idea of getting vaccinated against the Covid 19 virus. She is 74 years old.

At the very least, he has confused her and now she does not know what to do.

I am both angry, and in shock, because I did not think that she would be susceptible to something that an anti-vaxxer would say to her.

She has been a client of this 'Dr' for decades. I have a brother who thinks that the guy is a quack and has said this to my mum on a number of occasions. I on the other hand think that at her age (74) she should be left to believe what she believes in and to do with her money as she sees fit. (He also sells his homeopathic remedies to his clients once he has seen them).

However, I think a line is crossed when these practitioners warn against things like cancer treatments, or in this case against Covid 19 vaccination.

He has told her that the vaccine messes with a person's genes. He has said that a lot of the reason why people succumbed to the Covid 19 virus is because they have previously taken vaccines which have weakened their resistance. In short, he is an anti vaxxer.

I am not sure how to talk to my mum because I am so frustrated. Obviously when she told me last night I was in shock and I told her that I couldn't believe she was even confused momentarily. I was a little bit angry at her (well frustrated as a better word) but I was really angry at the alternative Dr that she went to see.

I believe that the best way to be is 'don't tell them that they are stupid / don't ridicule their beliefs' when you are dealing with people who don't believe in the benefits of the vaccine, or are confused.

I guess I am here today to ask for advice on how to change her mind back to the way it was the day before yesterday. I suggested off the bat that she should go and talk to her regular GP, who can act as a counterpoint to the quack she saw yesterday. I also advised, or requested, that she talked to my other two brothers. The reason for this is that I don't think she should internalise her thought process, but as the stakes are so high, she really should discuss the issues with the people closest to her, and also discuss them with the doctor.

Incidentally, I wonder how many other people he has also convinced that the Covid 19 vaccine is potentially injurious to their health. I asked my mum who was he public about his views in relation to the Covid 19 vaccine. She said that he is. To which I said 'how many respected voices do you hear in the media coming out against the Covid 19 vaccine? All the science points to very high efficacy of the vaccine. People who tend to comment against it seemed to withdraw their remarks within days. There is no credible evidence to suggest that not taking the vaccine as a preferable approach'.

Anyway, interested to see if anybody has any views on this.

Risteard81 · 11-02-2021 3:04pm

Does informed consent not include considering views other than the status quo?

Larbre34 · 11-02-2021 3:05pm

Is he/she a doctor or a homeopath?

Some Doctors introduce complementary therapy for many things like pain management and treatment of symptoms, but their core practice is the medical science. So, some doctors are homeopaths, but no homeopaths are doctors.

As for your main problem, my mother is the same age. She is waiting patiently to be called for her jabs, but If she were to suddenly take leave of her senses and refuse them, I would say to her, "fine, you're an adult, you can do what you like, but you won't be seeing me or my kids until we in turn are vaccinated later in the programme. See you at Christmas. Maybe."

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 3:08pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

Does informed consent not include considering views other than the status quo?

It does. But the anti vaxx position is widely discredited. And she is 74, so very susceptible to Covid 19.

suicide_circus · 11-02-2021 3:08pm

Not much you can do really other than outlining your concerns. Could she be endangering other family members if she's unvaccinated?

seamus · 11-02-2021 3:09pm

If he is a doctor, you can make a complaint to the Irish Medical Council.

If he's not a doctor, but is claiming to be one, or is giving medical advice under the pretence that he knows what he is doing, then you can make a criminal complaint to the Gardai.

Outside of that, I would push the point with your mother that this man has no qualifications to talk about these things. He does not have a medical qualification, he is not an expert, and his opinion should be given no more credence than gossip.

Strictly speaking, these quack practitioners are bound by general rules of safety and duty of care like any other business, but actually holding them to account is another matter entirely.

I'd give your mother information showing that things like homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., are quack nonsense. Discredit him and she's less likely to accept his nonsense.

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 3:11pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Is he/she a doctor or a homeopath?

Some Doctors introduce complementary therapy for many things like pain management and treatment of symptoms, but their core practice is the medical science. So, some doctors are homeopaths, but no homeopaths are doctors.

As for your main problem, my mother is the same age. She is waiting patiently to be called for her jabs, but If she were to suddenly take leave of her senses and refuse them, I would say to her, "fine, you're an adult, you can do what you like, but you won't be seeing me or my kids until we in turn are vaccinated later in the programme. See you at Christmas. Maybe."

Interesting. He is a homeopath. To be fair, he probably never referred to himself as a doctor or held himself out to be a doctor and I don't mean to in any way imply that he is claiming to be something that he is not. It may be the case that my mum used the word Dr, but it does not seem to apply to him.

In relation to not seeing my mum again until she has had her jabs, I have a place in the west of Ireland that I return to every weekend with my partner, but Monday to Friday had live with my mum in Dublin. Have done for five years. Difficult situation.

1123heavy · 11-02-2021 3:11pm

Hunchback wrote: »

Okay,

I don't have too much time to type this because I am on my lunch break at work. But, as per the title to the thread, an alternative/homeopathic doctor has turned my mum agsainst the idea of getting vaccinated against the Covid 19 virus. She is 74 years old.

At the very least, he has confused her and now she does not know what to do.

I am both angry, and in shock, because I did not think that she would be susceptible to something that an anti-vaxxer would say to her.

She has been a client of this 'Dr' for decades. I have a brother who thinks that the guy is a quack and has said this to my mum on a number of occasions. I on the other hand think that at her age (74) she should be left to believe what she believes in and to do with her money as she sees fit. (He also sells his homeopathic remedies to his clients once he has seen them).

However, I think a line is crossed when these practitioners warn against things like cancer treatments, or in this case against Covid 19 vaccination.

He has told her that the vaccine messes with a person's genes. He has said that a lot of the reason why people succumbed to the Covid 19 virus is because they have previously taken vaccines which have weakened their resistance. In short, he is an anti vaxxer.

I am not sure how to talk to my mum because I am so frustrated. Obviously when she told me last night I was in shock and I told her that I couldn't believe she was even confused momentarily. I was a little bit angry at her (well frustrated as a better word) but I was really angry at the alternative Dr that she went to see.

I believe that the best way to be is 'don't tell them that they are stupid / don't ridicule their beliefs' when you are dealing with people who don't believe in the benefits of the vaccine, or are confused.

I guess I am here today to ask for advice on how to change her mind back to the way it was the day before yesterday. I suggested off the bat that she should go and talk to her regular GP, who can act as a counterpoint to the quack she saw yesterday. I also advised, or requested, that she talked to my other two brothers. The reason for this is that I don't think she should internalise her thought process, but as the stakes are so high, she really should discuss the issues with the people closest to her, and also discuss them with the doctor.

Incidentally, I wonder how many other people he has also convinced that the Covid 19 vaccine is potentially injurious to their health. I asked my mum who was he public about his views in relation to the Covid 19 vaccine. She said that he is. To which I said 'how many respected voices do you hear in the media coming out against the Covid 19 vaccine? All the science points to very high efficacy of the vaccine. People who tend to comment against it seemed to withdraw their remarks within days. There is no credible evidence to suggest that not taking the vaccine as a preferable approach'.

Anyway, interested to see if anybody has any views on this.

TLDR: I have an elderly mum who was convinced by a quack doctor not take the Covid vaccine and I don't know what to do.

Who is this alternative doctor and is he registered with the HSE? I originally thought it was her regular GP who said all this until you said you may convince her to go to her regular GP

If he is not a regular GP then under what authority is he practicing and who has licensed him to practice medicine?

If this is some underground world then I imagine he is liable to be sued. If he is simply someone with opinions who people go to see and pay money for then I suggest there's not a whole lot you can do and your mother herself may be an anti vaxxer, you don't wake up in the morning and suddenly decide to go see one of these people unless you believe their particular approach is to your liking. In other words she must agree with his 'alternative' approach.

Are you sure she herself doesn't believe in the alternative world and is now trying to blame it on the doctor as if he convinced her, whereas all along she had no intention of getting the vaccine anyway?

pwurple · 11-02-2021 3:12pm

First of all, find out if that person is on the medical council register by looking them up here:

https://www.medicalcouncil.ie/public-information/check-the-register/

If an actual doctor, I'd contact the medical council with concerns.

If not, show your mother that they are not registered, and therefore not qualified to give guidance on medical matters.

Sometimes doctors that have been struck off set themselves up this way...

Risteard81 · 11-02-2021 3:12pm

Hunchback wrote: »

It does. But the anti vaxx position is widely discredited. And she is 74, so very susceptible to Covid 19.

It's shouldn't be discredited to state that the safety of a rushed novel vaccine (mRNA which has never safely been done before) is not certain.

11-02-2021 3:13pm

Show her this from the BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/av/53154442

They are doing a number of different versions in different languages as there are also myths that the vaccines contain pork/beef/alcohol depending on who is being targeted.

the anti vaxxers really are arrogant little tossers.

oisinog · 11-02-2021 3:13pm

Contact the "Alternative" doctor and ask for copies of the research papers he is using to discredit the Vaccine.

Let your Mum know that you are doing this and when he is unable to provide the scientific papers tell her he is talking through his a**e.

Dyr · 11-02-2021 3:13pm

He probably told her that the vaccines have been rushed through to such a degree that the makers would not ship them unless governments granted them indemnity from prosecution if anything goes wrong.

Or that Mrna vaccines are a completely new method of vaccination.

Both of which are true.

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 3:13pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Not much you can do really other than outlining your concerns. Could she be endangering other family members if she's unvaccinated?

She follows protocol in terms of hand washing and social distancing, not travelling outside of 5 km radius et cetera. So, I suppose, she won't be endangering other people any more then each of us who follow the rules currently are currently endangering each other. The main risk is to herself and to other people who refuse to be vaccinated.

I am hoping she comes around in the next day or two.

expectationlost · 11-02-2021 3:14pm

hopefully her GP will contact her in the next few weeks and that'll give an opportunity to talk to her.

11-02-2021 3:14pm

If your relationship is strong enough then tell her you will not be seeing her until she gets immunized and if there are grandchildren make it clear they will not be allowed visit either...cruel to be kind.

timetogo1 · 11-02-2021 3:15pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's shouldn't be discredited to state that the safety of a rushed novel vaccine (mRNA which has never safely been done before) is not certain.

What's that got to do with the OP?

Risteard81 · 11-02-2021 3:16pm

timetogo1 wrote: »

What's that got to do with the OP?

Plenty.

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 3:18pm

1123heavy wrote: »

Who is this alternative doctor and is he registered with the HSE? I originally thought it was her regular GP who said all this until you said you may convince her to go to her regular GP

If he is not a regular GP then under what authority is he practicing and who has licensed him to practice medicine?

If this is some underground world then I imagine he is liable to be sued. If he is simply someone with opinions who people go to see and pay money for then I suggest there's not a whole lot you can do and your mother herself may be an anti vaxxer, you don't wake up in the morning and suddenly decide to go see one of these people unless you believe their particular approach is to your liking. In other words she must agree with his 'alternative' approach.

Are you sure she herself doesn't believe in the alternative world and is now trying to blame it on the doctor as if he convinced her, whereas all along she had no intention of getting the vaccine anyway?

Sorry, I thought I had addressed this previously, but just for the avoidance of doubt and in case my previous post wasn't entirely clear, please anyone who is reading this post be aware of the following.

My mum does believe this stuff. She believes in homeopathy. She purchases this products from this practitioner who she goes to see of her own volition. Nobody is coaxing her to go there. Nobody is pressuring her to go there. I have visited the guys website and there are no claims to be a medical doctor. I think that my mum may have in error referred to him as a doctor. There is absolutely no way that I am going to reveal the identity of the person on this forum because I am all too aware of the potential for litigation that would arise. So I am steadfast and resolute in that position and there was no way I will disclose this person's details by private message or otherwise.

Now, having said all the above, the effect on my mum is still the same. Until she went to see him the day before yesterday, she was fully on board with the information that the covid 19 vaccine was a good thing for somebody who is vulnerable as she is.

monkeybutter · 11-02-2021 3:20pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

Plenty.

I hear 5g is a terrible curse also

11-02-2021 3:21pm

She has recently acquired strongly held beliefs.
You have strongly held beliefs that you could possibly infect and kill her if you pass virus to her so you won't be visiting.
She can retain her strongly held beliefs or if she wants to see you she will relent.

MacDanger · 11-02-2021 3:21pm

Try explaining at a basic level how a vaccine trial works; for example, in simple terms the Pfizer trial went something like this:

1. ~44,000 people selected who cover a wide range of ages and backgrounds
2. Half (the test group) are given the vaccine and half (the control group) a given an injection of a salt solution (no participant knows which they receive)
3. All participants are monitored for Covid and this data is recorded; if the vaccine has zero effect, you would expect both groups to have roughly the same amount of positive tests over time
4. After 3-4 months (in this case), ~200 people in the control group had tested positive for Covid while <10 people who received the vaccine tested positive - this is basically where the 90% efficacy comes from

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 3:21pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

I hear 5g is a terrible curse also

He said this too!

Risteard81 · 11-02-2021 3:22pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

I hear 5g is a terrible curse also

I never mentioned 5G. Just proves you have nothing useful to add to the discussion.

oisinog · 11-02-2021 3:22pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's shouldn't be discredited to state that the safety of a rushed novel vaccine (mRNA which has never safely been done before) is not certain.

At the start of the vaccine trials I was listening to a vaccine researcher in one of the bbc radio stations.

The reason vaccines take a long time to develop is it is not cost effictive for the companies developing them to set aside hundreds of millions of pounds/dollars/euros to develop them immediatley. They have to look at them in a cost effictive method.

In the case with these vaccines every country has thrown money at the development to allow the process to be completed quicker as well as the licencing agencys fast tracking their slow approval process.

Yes the testing hasnt been as widespread as they usually are but desprate times call for desprate mesaures.

But this is the problem with all anti-vaxers they change the narrative of the story to suit the outcome they want to come to.

Larbre34 · 11-02-2021 3:23pm

Judging by the OPs response, this person is not a Doctor and we should all stop using the word immediately to avoid confusion to future posters.

When talking about him to your mother OP, you should take every opportunity to say, "he isn't a doctor, don't call him that".

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 3:23pm

MacDanger wrote: »

Try explaining at a basic level how a vaccine trial works; for example, in simple terms the Pfizer trial went something like this:

1. ~44,000 people selected who cover a wide range of ages and backgrounds
2. Half (the test group) are given the vaccine and half (the control group) a given an injection of a salt solution (no participant knows which they receive)
3. All participants are monitored for Covid and this data is recorded; if the vaccine has zero effect, you would expect both groups to have roughly the same amount of positive tests over time
4. After 3-4 months (in this case), ~200 people in the control group had tested positive for Covid while <10 people who received the vaccine tested positive - this is basically where the 90% efficacy comes from

Seems like a good summary. His advice to her was don't get it done because it messes with your genes. I don't claim to understand what this is about, but presumably he is implying that the negtative effects of the vaccine will be felt long term rather than immediately.

Risteard81 · 11-02-2021 3:24pm

oisinog wrote: »

At the start of the vaccine trials I was listening to a vaccine researcher in one of the bbc radio stations.

The resason vaccines take a long time to develop is it is not cost effictive for the companies developing them to set aside hundreds of millions of pounds/dollars/euros to develop them immediatley. They have to look at them in a cost effictive method.

In the case with these vaccines every country has thrown money at the development to allow the process to be completed quicker as well as the licencing agencys fast tracking their slow approval process.

Yes the testing hasnt been as widespread as they usuall are but desprate times call for desprate mesaures.

But this is the problem with all anti-vaxers they change the narrative of the story to suit the outcome they want to come to.

They haven't gone through years of safety testing.

lemush · 11-02-2021 3:24pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

I hear 5g is a terrible curse also

What an absolutely moronic response.

Hunchback · 11-02-2021 3:25pm

I have to jump off here for a while and returned to my day job. Thanks all for the responses to date.

1123heavy · 11-02-2021 3:27pm

OK if she herself believes this stuff I'd bet all along she was on the fence over the vaccine at best. She was just figuring out how best to break it to you all and decided yesterday was time to do it, the practitioner is the handiest person to blame for it.

I don't doubt he told her not to take it, but the very fact she's going to see him tells me she never believed in the vaccine or had any intention to take it.

I don't agree telling her she can't see you or the grandkids, especially if they're very young and you're of good health - she will actually convince you of being the brainwashed one considering how unlikely you're all to be affected by it.

I see it that only time can cure it, once all the people who take it don't grow antennas or vanish, she'll eventually go off and take it hopefully and realise fantasy playtime is over.

oisinog · 11-02-2021 3:28pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

They haven't gone through years of safety testing.

Quite correct which is why I mentioned that the tests are not as widespread as they normally are.

But as I also mentioned that ant-vaxers will use this narrative to suit their goals which you have confirmed.

monkeybutter · 11-02-2021 3:30pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

I never mentioned 5G. Just proves you have nothing useful to add to the discussion.

if the glove fits wear it

11-02-2021 3:31pm

1123heavy wrote: »

I don't agree telling her she can't see you or the grandkids, especially if they're very young and you're of good health - she will actually convince you of being the brainwashed one considering how unlikely you're all to be affected by it.

You must not have irrational older people in your life.
Reason doesn't work in my experience and if you need to get them to do something which is to their benefit you coerce them in to doing it. It isn't elder abuse, it is giving them the care they need.

monkeybutter · 11-02-2021 3:32pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

They haven't gone through years of safety testing.

you can speed up the testing by throwing more resources at it that is what they did nothing rushed

Charles Babbage · 11-02-2021 3:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If your relationship is strong enough then tell her you will not be seeing her until she gets immunized and if there are grandchildren make it clear they will not be allowed visit either...cruel to be kind.

And make it clear that this is because she won't take reasonable precautions to protect herself as much as anything.

plodder · 11-02-2021 3:40pm

Chiropracters have traditionally been associated with the anti-vaccine movement. Now, maybe not all of them, but some are strongly against it, because it is built into their "training"/philosophy. And because they are somewhat accepted as medical practitioners, that makes it all the more dangerous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-vaccinationism_in_chiropractic

Encouraging her to talk to her GP seems like the best course of action.

Risteard81 · 11-02-2021 3:40pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

you can speed up the testing by throwing more resources at it that is what they did nothing rushed

You can't speed up the onset of long-term side effects.

monkeybutter · 11-02-2021 3:43pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

You can't speed up the onset of long-term side effects.

give us an example of such a side effect that they should be testing for and how many years of testing you would be happy with

OscarMIlde · 11-02-2021 3:52pm

Hunchback wrote: »

Okay,

I don't have too much time to type this because I am on my lunch break at work. But, as per the title to the thread, an alternative/homeopathic doctor has turned my mum agsainst the idea of getting vaccinated against the Covid 19 virus. She is 74 years old.

At the very least, he has confused her and now she does not know what to do.

I am both angry, and in shock, because I did not think that she would be susceptible to something that an anti-vaxxer would say to her.

She has been a client of this 'Dr' for decades. I have a brother who thinks that the guy is a quack and has said this to my mum on a number of occasions. I on the other hand think that at her age (74) she should be left to believe what she believes in and to do with her money as she sees fit. (He also sells his homeopathic remedies to his clients once he has seen them).

However, I think a line is crossed when these practitioners warn against things like cancer treatments, or in this case against Covid 19 vaccination.

He has told her that the vaccine messes with a person's genes. He has said that a lot of the reason why people succumbed to the Covid 19 virus is because they have previously taken vaccines which have weakened their resistance. In short, he is an anti vaxxer.

I am not sure how to talk to my mum because I am so frustrated. Obviously when she told me last night I was in shock and I told her that I couldn't believe she was even confused momentarily. I was a little bit angry at her (well frustrated as a better word) but I was really angry at the alternative Dr that she went to see.

I believe that the best way to be is 'don't tell them that they are stupid / don't ridicule their beliefs' when you are dealing with people who don't believe in the benefits of the vaccine, or are confused.

I guess I am here today to ask for advice on how to change her mind back to the way it was the day before yesterday. I suggested off the bat that she should go and talk to her regular GP, who can act as a counterpoint to the quack she saw yesterday. I also advised, or requested, that she talked to my other two brothers. The reason for this is that I don't think she should internalise her thought process, but as the stakes are so high, she really should discuss the issues with the people closest to her, and also discuss them with the doctor.

Incidentally, I wonder how many other people he has also convinced that the Covid 19 vaccine is potentially injurious to their health. I asked my mum who was he public about his views in relation to the Covid 19 vaccine. She said that he is. To which I said 'how many respected voices do you hear in the media coming out against the Covid 19 vaccine? All the science points to very high efficacy of the vaccine. People who tend to comment against it seemed to withdraw their remarks within days. There is no credible evidence to suggest that not taking the vaccine as a preferable approach'.

Anyway, interested to see if anybody has any views on this.

TLDR: I have an elderly mum who was convinced by a quack doctor not take the Covid vaccine and I don't know what to do.

I would just outline the basic facts. None of the covid 19 vaccines in any way alter a person's DNA. They contain information (whether mRNA or adenovirus) to make a small part of the covid 19 virus, allowing our body to make antibodies against covid 19.

So far, apart from people with severe allergies there have been very little side effects documented with these vaccines. Those described, chills, fevers, malaise etc are actually due to the body's own immune response, which shows they are making antibodies against covid 19. So far we also know that covid 19 can have very severe effects, including death, particularly in people of her age group. She needs to think about whether she thinks the risks of a vaccine outweigh the risks of catching covid 19.

Perhaps ask her to watch the recent RTE investigates series about covid 19 or the documentary set in St. James's Hospital, if she doesn't think covid 19 is dangerous. Try not to get emotional (which is hard), but let her know you are upset as you care about her, and you don't want her to make a decision she will regret. Don't hector to much. Often people will argue as they don't want to admit they are wrong, but will change their mind when left to their own thoughts if they have been provided with a logical reason to.

Risteard81 · 11-02-2021 3:52pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

give us an example of such a side effect that they should be testing for and how many years of testing you would be happy with

The whole point is that we don't know what side effects may develop. But a recent vaccine created widespread narcolepsy.

oisinog · 11-02-2021 3:58pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

The whole point is that we don't know what side effects may develop. But a recent vaccine created widespread narcolepsy.

Which vaccine was that?

11-02-2021 4:00pm

oisinog wrote: »

Which vaccine was that?

OisinOG, don't entertain an irrational person. It is not a productive use of your time.

Mrs OBumble · 11-02-2021 4:01pm

oisinog wrote: »

Which vaccine was that?

Swine flu.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases

Deeper Blue · 11-02-2021 4:03pm

Bambi wrote: »

He probably told her that the vaccines have been rushed through to such a degree that the makers would not ship them unless governments granted them indemnity from prosecution if anything goes wrong.

Or that Mrna vaccines are a completely new method of vaccination.

Both of which are true.

They weren't rushed through

monkeybutter · 11-02-2021 4:03pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

The whole point is that we don't know what side effects may develop. But a recent vaccine created widespread narcolepsy.

ok, great example now how long do you test for that and how big a sample do you use until you get to that 1 in 10k 20k side effect

was that Pandemrix vaccine rushed?

this is what i mean when you said it was rushed

plodder · 11-02-2021 4:15pm

"widespread narcolepsy" :rolleyes:

The adjuvants added to some old style vaccines have been accused (in one instance) of causing very rare cases of narcolepsy.

So, you'd think the new type of mRNA vaccine that doesn't use these adjuvants would be safer. So, instead they have to change tack and accuse them of being "new" and "untested".

lemush · 11-02-2021 4:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

OisinOG, don't entertain an irrational person. It is not a productive use of your time.

How is he irrational? Some people developed narcolepsy from the Swine Flu jab, stating so is not anti vaxx it is a matter of fact.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/settlement-for-narcolepsy-teen-offers-hope-for-80-other-cases-involving-swine-flu-jab-39708171.html

DaSilva · 11-02-2021 4:20pm

There are some big homeopathy believers in my family too that I think I will end up talking to about the vaccine. The good thing is, I think conveying a proper understanding of how these vaccines work should impress homeopathy believers as the covid vaccines basically work on the homeopathic principle

Its practitioners, called homeopaths, believe that a substance that causes symptoms of a disease in healthy people can cure similar symptoms in sick people; this doctrine is called similia similibus curentur, or "like cures like".

I plan to explain that the vaccine is effectively a homeopathic remedy, except it actually works.

eleventh · 11-02-2021 4:23pm

Hunchback wrote: »

...
Anyway, interested to see if anybody has any views on this.

TLDR: I have an elderly mum who was convinced by a quack doctor not take the Covid vaccine and I don't know what to do.

You can share your view with your mother but it would not be right to try and force your view - in the same way as you probably wouldn't like it if someone tried to force their view onto you.

She is 70+ and has been dealing with this practitioner for 'decades' as you said.
She obviously trusts them and/or had some doubts already about the push for this vaccine and probably (quite rationally in my view) had reservations about volunteering herself as a human guinea pig.

Larbre34 wrote: »

...I would say to her, "fine, you're an adult, you can do what you like, but you won't be seeing me or my kids until we in turn are vaccinated later in the programme. See you at Christmas. Maybe."

You are mis-informed.
The HSE guide to vaccine-taking says there is still a chance the person can get covid AFTER taking one of the vaccines.
It also states that the vaccine-makers make no claim at all as to immunity - i.e. a vaccinated person can still pass 'the virus' on to others, for all they know.
So basically, if you are distancing / masking now for fear of a virus spreading, you will have to continue doing that even after vaccines are taken.

If you read what they actually say, there is no good reason to ingest this (untested) vaccine into your system.
Of course being an adult, you are free to take that risk, as with any drug.

11-02-2021 4:24pm

lemush wrote: »

How is he irrational? Some people developed narcolepsy from the Swine Flu jab, stating so is not anti vaxx it is a matter of fact.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/settlement-for-narcolepsy-teen-offers-hope-for-80-other-cases-involving-swine-flu-jab-39708171.html

If I cared I'd ask you to quantify "some" but I don't.
Not engaging. FUD abounds.

'Alternative' doctor has turned my mum off Covid vaccine

Comments