'Alternative' doctor has turned my mum off Covid vaccine

JoChervil

Hunchback wrote: »

I am not sure how to talk to my mum because I am so frustrated. Obviously when she told me last night I was in shock and I told her that I couldn't believe she was even confused momentarily. I was a little bit angry at her (well frustrated as a better word) but I was really angry at the alternative Dr that she went to see.

I believe that the best way to be is 'don't tell them that they are stupid / don't ridicule their beliefs' when you are dealing with people who don't believe in the benefits of the vaccine, or are confused.

I think you are right, how to approach it. Being frustrated or attacking her adviser only will make her defensive and stronger keep her ground.

The best way to be heard is first fully hear what other person has to say. Especially about emotions. Ask her questions, how she feels about vaccine about this "doctor", what she is afraid of the most, what she admire in him or in modern medicine etc. When people get rid of their emotions, they are ready to listen. She needs to empty her mind to take on board your point of view. Otherwise you will be talking while she will be thinking about her arguments.

But she has a right to choose. Sometimes we have to choose, what is better for a bigger good than us. But vaccine creates much lower risk for a person in her age, than for someone, who would like to have kids etc.

Risteard81

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's shouldn't be discredited to state that the safety of a rushed novel vaccine (mRNA which has never safely been done before) is not certain.

Yes, yes it is. Unless you are hiding advanced Biology degrees and research

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

He probably told her that the vaccines have been rushed through to such a degree that the makers would not ship them unless governments granted them indemnity from prosecution if anything goes wrong.

Or that Mrna vaccines are a completely new method of vaccination.

Both of which are true.

And?


BTW the development has not been rushed. Outside of obvious long term research, this is how fast vaccines should be produced if it were not for funding delays at every step.

How many dead, from COVID, again?

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Swine flu.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases

Widespread? At 1 in 55,000?



And also in doubt...
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html

froog

any medical doctor offering or recommending patients homeopathy treatments should have their medical license suspended and be charged with fraud.

froog

froog wrote: »

any medical doctor offering or recommending patients homeopathy treatments should have their medical license suspended and be charged with fraud.

Homeopathy is an absolute nonsense. It's only use is as a placebo but doctors should not be allowed to use it, as such, as it give credence to the whole idea of homeopathy working.


FFS the NHS were actually paying for this nonsense not too long ago

eleventh

JoChervil wrote: »

... Especially about emotions. Ask her questions, how she feels about vaccine about this "doctor", what she is afraid of the most, what she admire in him or in modern medicine etc. When people get rid of their emotions, they are ready to listen. ...

Ironic considering the whole push for these vaccines relies so heavily on exploiting the emotions and feelings of the public, all who miss family and friends, naturally & normal life in general.

If the emotional carrot-stick of lockdown vs normal was not used, hardly anyone would want to take these vaccines.

mloc123

Risteard81 wrote: »

I never mentioned 5G. Just proves you have nothing useful to add to the discussion.

Are you heading over to the mainland to get your British vaccine?

monkeybutter

eleventh wrote: »

Ironic considering the whole push for these vaccines relies so heavily on exploiting the emotions and feelings of the public, all who miss family and friends, naturally & normal life in general.

If the emotional carrot-stick of lockdown vs normal was not used, hardly anyone would want to take these vaccines.

If there was no covid then no one would take a covid vaccine, right you are

is_that_so

eleventh wrote: »

Ironic considering the whole push for these vaccines relies so heavily on exploiting the emotions and feelings of the public, all who miss family and friends, naturally & normal life in general.

If the emotional carrot-stick of lockdown vs normal was not used, hardly anyone would want to take these vaccines.

I think a lot of people can see a logical path through it. That it dovetails with a high level of emotions doesn't make that any less true. Public messaging is an entirely different beast.

NeuralNetwork

Unfortunately this is one of those awkward situations where you discover a friend or family member is a bit of a moron and conspiracy theorist and there's very little you can do about it, other than give them facts and information about the vaccine and let them make their own mind up.

If she doesn't want to take the vaccine, she's making a risk analysis based on whatever she thinks the risks are and in this case, it could well result in a bad outcome for her. However, that's her decision. She's an adult and perfectly capable of making her own decisions be they sensible or not.

The unfortunate bit is that as the rest of the population gets vaccinated, she will end up as an outlier and a risk to others. In which case, they may well make decisions to avoid her. That's also their choice.

She's an adult and entirely competent to make her own decisions, but those decisions aren't without consequences. Unfortunately, we've entered an age where there's a false equivalency between facts and firmly held beliefs and an assumption that all choices should be free of consequences.

The vaccine is new, but it's also proving to be highly effective, particularly the mRNA types, and the disease it prevents is potentially deadly, especially to older people.

There's no getting around that.

Also all this stuff about claims it modifies your genome and all of that is absolute nonsense. You might as well be claiming that traffic lights make you go bald.

monkeybutter

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Unfortunately this is one of those awkward situations where you discover a friend or family member is a bit of a moron and conspiracy theorist and there's very little you can do about it, other than give them facts and information about the vaccine and let them make their own mind up.

If she doesn't want to take the vaccine, she's making a risk analysis based on whatever she thinks the risks are and in this case, it could well result in a bad outcome for her. However, that's her decision.

The unfortunate bit is that as the rest of the population gets vaccinated, she will end up as an outlier and a risk to others. In which case, they may well make decisions to avoid her. That's also their choice.

She's an adult and entirely competent to make her own decisions, but those decisions aren't without consequences. Unfortunately, we've entered an age where there's a false equivalency between facts and firmly held beliefs and an assumption that all choices should be free of consequences.

The vaccine is new, but it's also proving to be highly effective, particularly the mRNA types, and the disease it prevents is potentially deadly, especially to older people.

There's no getting around that.

Also all this stuff about claims it modifies your genome and all of that is absolute nonsense. You might as well be claiming that traffic lights make you go bald.

Look I'm all for flat earthers not taking the vaccine

More for me

Also why protect them from the ravages of evolution, perhaps we are causing this in the first place by protecting these people

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

And?


BTW the development has not been rushed. Outside of obvious long term research, this is how fast vaccines should be produced if it were not for funding delays at every step.

How many dead, from COVID, again?

I like how every attempt to counter those points has to confirm that they're both true and then fall back on the fact that we've no choice in these circumstances as though thats a refutation rather than affiirmation of their veracity

Some very strange people who think like that.

eleventh

is_that_so wrote: »

I think a lot of people can see a logical path through it. That it dovetails with a high level of emotions doesn't make that any less true. Public messaging is an entirely different beast.

Logic would take into account whether a decision-maker is trustworthy or not.

Logic would also take into account the facts of a situation starting with first principles, using scientific rigour to arrive at conclusions.

There is no logical basis for any decision made by government etc since the start of this thing in March 2020.

monkeybutter

eleventh wrote: »

Logic would take into account whether a decision-maker is trustworthy or not.

Logic would also take into account the facts of a situation starting with first principles, using scientific rigour to arrive at conclusions.

There is no logical basis for any decision made by government etc since the start of this thing in March 2020.

So you would you have done everything differently?

Tell us what you would have done, entertain us

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

Look I'm all for flat earthers not taking the vaccine

More for me

Also why protect them from the ravages of evolution, perhaps we are causing this in the first place by protecting these people

Honest answer, because there are people who can not take the vaccine for medical reasons (allergies, immunocompromised, etc)
The rest of us need to take the vaccine to generate actual herd immunity to protect these people.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

I like how every attempt to counter those points has to confirm that they're both true and then fall back on the fact that we've no choice in these circumstances as though thats a refutation rather than affiirmation of their veracity

Some very strange people who think like that.

And another complete lack of the understanding of medicines. All medicines have risk



EG aspirin: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1118944/


But science/medicine has to weight the risks of medicating Vs the risks of not, again see aspirin.
COVID is vastly, by orders of magnitude (you probably need to look that term up), than any adjuncts in a vaccine.


Vaccine has miniscule (potential) dangers, COVID has exceptionally common injury and/or fatal effects.


I, honestly, assume that you don't have a science qualification, yeah?

Risteard81

mloc123 wrote: »

Are you heading over to the mainland to get your British vaccine?

As a citizen of the 32-County Irish Republic I am not leaving the Irish mainland to receive any vaccine. I am also repudiating it on Irish soil.

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Honest answer, because there are people who can not take the vaccine for medical reasons (allergies, immunocompromised, etc)
The rest of us need to take the vaccine to generate actual herd immunity to protect these people.

Surely the percentage of flat earthers is low right

monkeybutter

Risteard81 wrote: »

As a citizen of the 32-County Irish Republic I am not leaving the Irish mainland to receive any vaccine. I am also repudiating it on Irish soil.

Plus if you leave Ireland you may fall off the edge of the earth

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

Surely the percentage of flat earthers is low right

Flat-earthers are a horribly high number, afaik.


As for anti-vaxxers, there are enough of them to eliminate herd immunity in our most common vaccine programs, putting millions at risk of measles and such

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

Plus if you leave Ireland you may fall off the edge of the earth

That's more like leaving Cork

hmmm

If she's anything like my mother, she knows he's a quack but is hoping that there is some element of truth and feels it is worth trying. Telling her bluntly to cop herself on and get vaccinated will work.

Risteard81

monkeybutter wrote: »

Plus if you leave Ireland you may fall off the edge of the earth

The Earth is round you silly, silly boy.

Risteard81

Risteard81 wrote: »

You can't speed up the onset of long-term side effects.

I am trying to figure out are you a deliberate spreader of misinformation or just a gullible patsy

monkeybutter

Risteard81 wrote: »

The Earth is round you silly, silly boy.

There's hope for you yet

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's more like leaving Cork

If you couldn't get a breast in a bun boy you'd have to throw yourself off the edge

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

If you couldn't get a breast in a bun boy you'd have to throw yourself off the edge

Mmm Hillbillies (branches in select Not-Cork sites now)

Risteard81

Deleted User wrote: »

I am trying to figure out are you a deliberate spreader of misinformation or just a gullible patsy

How is that misinformation? Now run along with your fifteen masks on.

ODriscoll

Would not want to put anyone off, as I like you, just don't know yet to be so certain either way!
The need appears stronger than the risk, but! to not even wonder is only for those who applaud a emperors new clothes

Deleted User wrote: »

And?


BTW the development has not been rushed. Outside of obvious long term research, this is how fast vaccines should be produced if it were not for funding delays at every step.

How many dead, from COVID, again?

A family member who is an actual Bio chemist who is working (and has been throughout) frontline at a large pharma in quality control for vaccines.
Inform me that Typically vaccines to market take around 6 to 8 years.
The so called 'delays' are not primarily because of lack of funding, the so called delays would be down in laymans terms because of proper validated analyzed testing, which takes time, not a few months.
They also inform me that most of their qualified colleagues are unsure,holding back.
Much like the actually qualified states here
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/could-an-mrna-vaccine-be-dangerous-in-the-long-term-649253

Note the ending of one of these very experts when asked directly

But when asked if she would take the vaccine right away, she responded: “I won’t be taking it immediately – probably not for at least the coming year,” she told the Post. “We have to wait and see whether it really works.”

So like most everything else, there are legitimate causes for concern regardless of the shouts from the extremes of 'both sides' of the debate.

there is btw no vaccine, there are numerous vaccines, not one of which to date could be regarded as having had complete testing and complete studies done, as that would by definition take years.

yes exceptional times, but don't dismiss people just because you imagine you know better because something you want to, need to believe in.
We all want to believe, but only ages old fools just accepts without question.