M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

Pete_Cavan · 21-01-2021 3:18pm

KrisW1001 wrote: »

Contracts don't work like that. Final payment doesn't arrive until all work is complete and signed off; so the construction belongs to the contractor until the final payment arrives. If you think about it for more than a minute, you'll see it can't be any other way, unless you like seeing your taxes used to buy barristers nice houses.

Allowing one junction to open independent of the other would have cost more, not just for operational reasons, but because the contractor would see it as posing a higher risk of not being paid fully and on time (e.g., if the council held up handover of half the project because they were strapped for cash or haggling to get extra work done for free).

There is provision for phased handover in the contracts, although that provision may not have been used in this case. The contractor is still entitled to payment for works done even if the contracting authority does not accept project completion. There would be very little difference in payment even if they held up handover, just 50% of the Retention which itself would be a few percent of the overall contract value.

BuzzFish · 22-01-2021 8:12am

Delay to summer now.

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/home/603563/opening-of-sallins-bypass-and-m7-interchange-may-be-delayed-until-start-of-summer.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

WishUWereHere · 25-01-2021 9:11pm

BuzzFish wrote: »

Delay to summer now.

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/home/603563/opening-of-sallins-bypass-and-m7-interchange-may-be-delayed-until-start-of-summer.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

This madness. Anything but the J9A open. Is there no accountability/penalties in this project?

Cazale · 25-01-2021 9:25pm

BuzzFish wrote:

Delay to summer now.

Which summer?

regedit · 25-01-2021 10:30pm

I drove past the J9A from the Kerry group/Millennium Park relief road today and walked there a few times last week and they are definitely widening the slip-roads coming into Naas from the M7/J9A and heading from there to the M7. Road totally dug up there, no asphalt, verges been moved laterally - indicating widening. All done in a very casual way as the entire doomed project hence the massive delays

silver2020 · 25-01-2021 10:35pm

regedit wrote: »

All done in a very casual way as the entire doomed project hence the massive delays

They should have just got all the board's experts to do it.

regedit · 25-01-2021 10:41pm

silver2020 wrote: »

They should have just got all the board's experts to do it.

I find it strange that you forgot to ask me for my competency level/credentials to dare make any comment.
You don't have to be a genius to determine the lack of project management and direction in delivering this nationally important work

BelfastVanMan · 26-01-2021 10:55am

regedit wrote: »

I find it strange that you forgot to ask me for my competency level/credentials to dare make any comment.
You don't have to be a genius to determine the lack of project management and direction in delivering this nationally important work

Or to realise that his apostrophe was uneccessary, too... ;-)

silver2020 · 26-01-2021 4:52pm

regedit wrote: »

I find it strange that you forgot to ask me for my competency level/credentials to dare make any comment.
You don't have to be a genius to determine the lack of project management and direction in delivering this nationally important work

Sallins bypass a nationally important works? Seriously.

Sallins bypass and Jct 9a are a different project to the M7 upgrade, but were joined together as a single tender.

Yep, link roads are narrow, but that was the design. Design team (KCC) obviously went back and changed it.

With most new builds (roads, buildings etc etc,) there will be last minute changes, small improvements, but most projects do not have armchair "experts" watching day in day out and searching for the most minor of flaws and jumping on it (eg - one small blemish on the top coat that was corrected within 24 hours, but boards "experts" STILL harp on about it and claimed it was a "massive pothole" and then there's the imaginary bumpy surface which no-one other than the "experts" here seem to feel)

They kept 2 lanes operational all during the project and worked in a very tight space and delivered the mainline fairly close to the original date (see the early part of this tread for the dates and not what the boards "experts" falsely claimed). I think they did reasonably well.

regedit · 26-01-2021 8:47pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Sallins bypass a nationally important works? Seriously.

Sallins bypass and Jct 9a are a different project to the M7 upgrade, but were joined together as a single tender.

Yep, link roads are narrow, but that was the design. Design team (KCC) obviously went back and changed it.

With most new builds (roads, buildings etc etc,) there will be last minute changes, small improvements, but most projects do not have armchair "experts" watching day in day out and searching for the most minor of flaws and jumping on it (eg - one small blemish on the top coat that was corrected within 24 hours, but boards "experts" STILL harp on about it and claimed it was a "massive pothole" and then there's the imaginary bumpy surface which no-one other than the "experts" here seem to feel)

They kept 2 lanes operational all during the project and worked in a very tight space and delivered the mainline fairly close to the original date (see the early part of this tread for the dates and not what the boards "experts" falsely claimed). I think they did reasonably well.

You on the payroll of SIAC/Colas or KCC? There's a few bots here posting religiously on behalf of the builders. Not saying you are one of them but just wondering.
M50 was upgraded ages ago and 2 lanes kept open without much fuss and fanfare (BTW, much narrower setup than the M7).
If you're annoyed with us 'experts' here voicing our concern about the lack of transparency, communication and professionalism from both KCC and the inept builders, I suggest you go to dedicated professional forums where you can lament about the exceptional project with architects and fellow builders! Summa summarum (sum of sums) is that the builders messed up a straight forward project.
Last minute tweaks you say. Not sure if you realise that the J9A slip-road has been idle for the past year. No activity and now, when the handover (overdue) should have happened, suddenly 5 heavy diggers doing major works at it. Frustrating as we, the 'experts' don't know is KCC making last minute changes or if teh changes are a result o builders messing up things. As you are close to the project, you might want to enlighten us

WishUWereHere · 26-01-2021 9:56pm

I came home on the inside lane from J9 to exit at J10. I have to say the bumps around J9a are really bad for a recently resurfaced lane.

KrisW1001 · 26-01-2021 10:38pm

By definition, commuter routes are not nationally important. The Sallins bypass is very important for Co. Kildare, but the upgrade to the M7 route is far, far more significant.

_Kaiser_ · 27-01-2021 10:16am

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I came home on the inside lane from J9 to exit at J10. I have to say the bumps around J9a are really bad for a recently resurfaced lane.

Yep, the surfacing generally is very poor in many places with poor drainage being especially noticable in heavy rain.

I can't say I'm especially surprised to hear that it's been delayed yet again, nor the predictable posts about how we just don't get it etc :rolleyes:

Whoever is "managing" this project should have been fired long ago.

Tomrota · 27-01-2021 12:31pm

KrisW1001 wrote: »

By definition, commuter routes are not nationally important. The Sallins bypass is very important for Co. Kildare, but the upgrade to the M7 route is far, far more significant.

Junction 9a is an upgrade to the M7 and it’s been left unopened/incomplete for months.

FluffPiece · 27-01-2021 1:25pm

The only thing I'll say in defence of the delay is the current covid pandemic. It was always going to have an impact and cause a delay regardless. This doesn't excuse any delays pre-covid, but currently I don't expect much to be moved on in the short time and I don't think that's unreasonable.

Road surface and bumps in places was bad enough to be noticable mind you. Wasn't impressed by that at all, dunno why people gloss over the bumpy road in places, it's certainly noticable if paying attention considering the speeds.

KrisW1001 · 27-01-2021 1:34pm

Tomrota wrote: »

Junction 9a is an upgrade to the M7 and it’s been left unopened/incomplete for months.

9a is not an upgrade to the M7: it's part of the Sallins bypass. And while it might help by removing some commuter traffic from M7 a little more quickly, it does not directly add any capacity to the M7.

Anatom · 27-01-2021 2:32pm

It doesn't matter, does it? So, can we please move on?

The two projects were / are linked together - fact. The Sallins by-pass would have been knocked on again for another ten or fifteen years if they hadn't been, so that is a very good thing.

The M7 is largely finished, with the exception of the J9A mess, and - yes, its a fact - the bad finish and frankly dangerous drainage issues.

The Sallins by-pass mess is due to a number of factors which have interrupted and delayed the Sallins by-pass project, not least of which is;
1) Incompetence and bad management from KCC. They don't seem to have any control or oversight of the project. Hands-off seems to be the tactic, unless there's a massive hue and cry from social media or someone higher up the food chain.
2) Lack of direction (I'm supposing here) to the contractor from KCC or central authority (NTI?) - see comment above. The project seemed to waft along with little urgency. Hence what we've seen with the 9A junction. That should have been identified as a problem and been changed long before they put the tarmac down over a year ago. However, I could be wrong and this might have had something to do with the point below...
3) Financial problems with contractor - SIAC are in serious financial trouble, and are being kept going (albeit on a shoestring) by KCC and this project. The lack of manpower on the route is ridiculous. At least with KCC when they throw people at a project, they go all-in. This, however, is just nuts.
4) COVID-19 - losing at least nine weeks of directly being shut down last year, and God-knows how many other knock-on delays otherwise, has undoubtedly caused problems. That's not a sufficient excuse though for the overall delay.

In saying all that, I do know that it'll get there. Whenever I have walked along the route recently I have noticed tangible improvements and developments each time. The link road into Sallins is now looking more finished in the past two weeks, and you can start to see what its going to look like.

Its just like waiting for a kettle to boil. It takes ages, and can be very frustrating.

riddlinrussell · 27-01-2021 4:31pm

I've posted a fair few times about when I expected it to be done, as someone living in the area at this stage its kind of just *shrug* "when its done its done"

Traffic levels in the town are reduced due to COVID so its not as bad as it was, I mostly want it to be done so KCC can move on to hopefully making Sallins public realm into a haven for pedestrians and cyclists.

Anatom · 27-01-2021 5:16pm

That's a whole new thread there..!

Pete_Cavan · 27-01-2021 7:48pm

Anatom wrote: »

It doesn't matter, does it? So, can we please move on?

The two projects were / are linked together - fact. The Sallins by-pass would have been knocked on again for another ten or fifteen years if they hadn't been, so that is a very good thing.

The M7 is largely finished, with the exception of the J9A mess, and - yes, its a fact - the bad finish and frankly dangerous drainage issues.

The Sallins by-pass mess is due to a number of factors which have interrupted and delayed the Sallins by-pass project, not least of which is;
1) Incompetence and bad management from KCC. They don't seem to have any control or oversight of the project. Hands-off seems to be the tactic, unless there's a massive hue and cry from social media or someone higher up the food chain.
2) Lack of direction (I'm supposing here) to the contractor from KCC or central authority (NTI?) - see comment above. The project seemed to waft along with little urgency. Hence what we've seen with the 9A junction. That should have been identified as a problem and been changed long before they put the tarmac down over a year ago. However, I could be wrong and this might have had something to do with the point below...
3) Financial problems with contractor - SIAC are in serious financial trouble, and are being kept going (albeit on a shoestring) by KCC and this project. The lack of manpower on the route is ridiculous. At least with KCC when they throw people at a project, they go all-in. This, however, is just nuts.
4) COVID-19 - losing at least nine weeks of directly being shut down last year, and God-knows how many other knock-on delays otherwise, has undoubtedly caused problems. That's not a sufficient excuse though for the overall delay

You are over-stating the contracting authorities role here. First off, they have consultants who represent them and do the design and most of the contract administration. Any design issues are almost certainly on them.

It is for the contractor to manage the construction process. If they are under-resourcing the project, there is very little the contracting authority can do only make their concerns known and remind them of their contractual obligations and implications of failing to meet them. Only if design changes happen will lack of direction come into it. It is also for the contractor to have sufficient cashflow, they are always paid in arrears for works done.

30-01-2021 6:36am

There is a lot of Project Manager bashing on here in relation to this Project. Project Managers are part of a wider team and are normally responsible for cost, effort and quality of the project. No one here really knows what is going on with the overall project and the external influences such as Covid-19, changes in priorities, stakeholder management etc.
If I were to lay just one criticism about this whole project it would be the lack of transparency and central communications to the public. The timelines outlined at the very start of this project have been initially met. Extenuating circumstances may well have played a big part in the illusion of a faltering project.
Hurry up and get it over with!
Slightly off topic but when the new junction opens up on the millennium ring road, it's likely NCC will be opening up shortly after and if they haven't put in a proper traffic plan for that school, it's going to be chaotic at school rush hour.

BuzzFish · 31-01-2021 3:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a lot of Project Manager bashing on here in relation to this Project. Project Managers are part of a wider team and are normally responsible for cost, effort and quality of the project. No one here really knows what is going on with the overall project and the external influences such as Covid-19, changes in priorities, stakeholder management etc.
If I were to lay just one criticism about this whole project it would be the lack of transparency and central communications to the public. The timelines outlined at the very start of this project have been initially met. Extenuating circumstances may well have played a big part in the illusion of a faltering project.
Hurry up and get it over with!
Slightly off topic but when the new junction opens up on the millennium ring road, it's likely NCC will be opening up shortly after and if they haven't put in a proper traffic plan for that school, it's going to be chaotic at school rush hour.

At this rate the school will be well up and running before the junction opens :rolleyes:

Anatom · 01-02-2021 12:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Slightly off topic but when the new junction opens up on the millennium ring road, it's likely NCC will be opening up shortly after and if they haven't put in a proper traffic plan for that school, it's going to be chaotic at school rush hour.

NCC will hopefully be open before Christmas this year. It won't be open in time for the new school year at the end of August, but should hopefully be ready by December. They lost a lot of construction time in an already tight schedule with the first lock-down.

The traffic piece should be ok. There'll be an increase, no doubt about it, but the way the car park / drop-off zones will work at the school should make it doable. There should be no cars seen stopping on the main ring-road, but there may be congestion on the off-shoot between that roundabout and the entrance into the school grounds.

Tomrota · 01-02-2021 5:58pm

Anatom wrote: »

NCC will hopefully be open before Christmas this year. It won't be open in time for the new school year at the end of August, but should hopefully be ready by December. They lost a lot of construction time in an already tight schedule with the first lock-down.

The traffic piece should be ok. There'll be an increase, no doubt about it, but the way the car park / drop-off zones will work at the school should make it doable. There should be no cars seen stopping on the main ring-road, but there may be congestion on the off-shoot between that roundabout and the entrance into the school grounds.

If cyclists continue to dangerously block the road while cycle tracks are provided, then I can see traffic being a real problem. Especially with the increased amount of cycling on this route when the schools open.

Sam Russell · 02-02-2021 11:27am

Mod: Can we leave cyclists out of this thread - they are not relevant.

benny79 · 08-02-2021 1:14pm

I just noticed as I travel on the new stretch daily. There is no speed signs only the ones coming off the slip roads which state 120 kph. Now the Naas road has always been 100 kph since the 3 lanes anyway. After the ball in Naas it always went up to 120 kph which obviously has stayed the same. I know most the speed limits in this Country are all over the place at best. But its a bit weird having a speed limit of 100 kph on a 3 lane motorway (naas rd) that jumps to 120 kph after ball in Naas as its the same road plus theres no signs...

Why I ask is because they always seem to have the speed van on it now outbound!

Charles Babbage · 08-02-2021 1:15pm

benny79 wrote: »

I just noticed as I travel on the new stretch daily. There is no speed signs only the ones coming off the slip roads which state 120 kph. Now the Naas road has always been 100 kph since the 3 lanes anyway. After the ball in Naas it always went up to 120 kph which obviously has stayed the same. I know most the speed limits in this Country are all over the place at best. But its a bit weird having a speed limit of 100 kph on a 3 lane motorway (naas rd) that jumps to 120 kph after ball in Naas as its the same road plus theres no signs...

Why I ask is because they always seem to have the speed van on it now outbound!

The Naas Road is not a motorway.

riddlinrussell · 08-02-2021 1:17pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The Naas Road is not a motorway.

Indeed, it has many direct accesses and the junctions aren't up to spec to be classed as one.

benny79 · 08-02-2021 1:19pm

apologises but my point was there been different speed limits on the same road lack of speed signs and the speed van been all over it.. Seems a bit unfair or not right imo.

silver2020 · 08-02-2021 2:05pm

benny79 wrote: »

I just noticed as I travel on the new stretch daily. There is no speed signs only the ones coming off the slip roads which state 120 kph. Now the Naas road has always been 100 kph since the 3 lanes anyway. After the ball in Naas it always went up to 120 kph which obviously has stayed the same. I know most the speed limits in this Country are all over the place at best. But its a bit weird having a speed limit of 100 kph on a 3 lane motorway (naas rd) that jumps to 120 kph after ball in Naas as its the same road plus theres no signs...

Why I ask is because they always seem to have the speed van on it now outbound!

default speed on a national route is 100kmh. Should be fairly obvious its not a motorway, so assume 100kmh unless specified otherwise.

I think there are about 50 entrances/exits between Johnstown junction and Newlands cross - includes farm gates

benny79 · 08-02-2021 4:08pm

silver2020 wrote: »

default speed on a national route is 100kmh. Should be fairly obvious its not a motorway, so assume 100kmh unless specified otherwise.

I think there are about 50 entrances/exits between Johnstown junction and Newlands cross - includes farm gates

Forget motorway. I know its not a motorway. My point was on the different limits and lack of limit /speed signs

silver2020 · 08-02-2021 6:11pm

benny79 wrote: »

Forget motorway. I know its not a motorway. My point was on the different limits and lack of limit /speed signs

Its 100kmh from Newlands to start of M7 at all points and there are signs at every entry point. There are no sections under 100kmh.

WishUWereHere · 08-02-2021 6:54pm

benny79 wrote: »

apologises but my point was there been different speed limits on the same road lack of speed signs and the speed van been all over it.. Seems a bit unfair or not right imo.

I use the N/M 7 every working day as far south as J10. I have never seen a speed van on the M7. Yes the N 7 sure but as long as You are adhering to the 100kph speed You have nothing to fear. Once over the flyover at Newlands X ( I think it's only 80kph from the M50 to after the flyover ) the speed limit doesn't fluctuate from there on as far as the Ball, when it increases to 120.

BuzzFish · 09-02-2021 2:54pm

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

09-02-2021 2:59pm

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

As the government have abandoned the NSL, there is a need to place signs at regular intervals on all roads, as opposed to only those where the limit is different to the NSL.

benny79 · 09-02-2021 4:22pm

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

Exactly and that transition is basically a longer stretch of the N7 now even though its M7

_Kaiser_ · 10-02-2021 4:24pm

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

There's 120 signs just after the Naas exit (9) outbound. Also on the parallel on-ramp

Be well and win · 10-02-2021 5:25pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I use the N/M 7 every working day as far south as J10. I have never seen a speed van on the M7. Yes the N 7 sure but as long as You are adhering to the 100kph speed You have nothing to fear. Once over the flyover at Newlands X ( I think it's only 80kph from the M50 to after the flyover ) the speed limit doesn't fluctuate from there on as far as the Ball, when it increases to 120.

I've seen them twice in recent weeks southbound before the new exit for Sallins.

Be well and win · 12-02-2021 10:48am

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

There is one 120 sign on the left hand side before the Round Ball.

FluffPiece · 12-02-2021 10:59am

Had to travel on it yesterday to Dublin for appointment and saw plenty of signs along the N7 to remind people that it was 100kph. That with the non motorway standard exits / entrances, you'd be hard pressed to not know it wasn't a motorway.

Did see a Garda car in the designated Garda slip section not far from Kill, on the Dublin bound side.

regedit · 21-02-2021 10:37pm

Not sure if this is a recent update or stuck there for some time but the http://www.m7upgrade.com website indicating the Sallins bypass on schedule for a Feb 2021 opening

Darc19 · 21-02-2021 11:50pm

regedit wrote: »

Not sure if this is a recent update or stuck there for some time but the http://www.m7upgrade.com website indicating the Sallins bypass on schedule for a Feb 2021 opening

Video created 13th December

marno21 · 22-02-2021 4:33pm

https://kildare-nationalist.ie/2021/02/22/junction-9a-to-open-at-end-of-march/

Golden Horde · 01-03-2021 4:01pm

Took a walk on the Sallins bypass over the weekend.

The link road into Sallins has had it's top layer put down (on the new part, not on the existing road in front of Lidl), as has the section from the canal roundabout as far as the second Liffey crossing - I didn't go further but would assume it has been laid as far as the Clane road roundabout.

champchamp · 01-03-2021 7:06pm

Has the opening date been confirmed?

MYSTICA1 · 01-03-2021 7:08pm

champchamp wrote: »

Has the opening date been confirmed?

Several times .. and the dates have come and gone and it never opened!!:D:D
Latest was the end of March.

BuzzFish · 02-03-2021 8:09am

Golden Horde wrote: »

Took a walk on the Sallins bypass over the weekend.

The link road into Sallins has had it's top layer put down (on the new part, not on the existing road in front of Lidl), as has the section from the canal roundabout as far as the second Liffey crossing - I didn't go further but would assume it has been laid as far as the Clane road roundabout.

Under the osberstown road bridge has its top layer now too. Ready for lining now and works moved to landscaping. Positive signs. Work progressing at Kerry Group too, widening the lanes. Ready for new top layer.

BuzzFish · 12-03-2021 11:19am

Under the osberstown bridge done and lined. Looking very close now.

They are also completing works on the Kerry Group Roundabout integration (down to one lane a few days this week). All the signage posts are back in place after the rework and lighting being mounted on poles currently.

Is it just me or is the lane alignment under the railway bridge alignment a bit messy looking?

eusap · 12-03-2021 11:21am

is there no hard shoulder on the bypass?

jmkennedyie · 12-03-2021 11:38am

In the second pic note the new cycle/pedestrian track heading east to the old canal road. This is south of the railway bridge whereas the map circulated in a James Lawless newsletter indicates track on the north side. No big deal it seems.

As part of these works a new pedestrian/(cycle?) connection is currently being installed between Grand Canal Naas Branch and Millennium Road to enable a 5km pedestrian(cycle?) loop around Sallins using the bypass:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=53.2379&mlon=-6.6725#map=15/53.2379/-6.6725

(Also road-lining has reached the Clane roundabout)

M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

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