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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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WishUWereHere

I came home on the inside lane from J9 to exit at J10. I have to say the bumps around J9a are really bad for a recently resurfaced lane.

KrisW1001

By definition, commuter routes are not nationally important. The Sallins bypass is very important for Co. Kildare, but the upgrade to the M7 route is far, far more significant.

_Kaiser_

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I came home on the inside lane from J9 to exit at J10. I have to say the bumps around J9a are really bad for a recently resurfaced lane.

Yep, the surfacing generally is very poor in many places with poor drainage being especially noticable in heavy rain.

I can't say I'm especially surprised to hear that it's been delayed yet again, nor the predictable posts about how we just don't get it etc :rolleyes:

Whoever is "managing" this project should have been fired long ago.

Tomrota

KrisW1001 wrote: »

By definition, commuter routes are not nationally important. The Sallins bypass is very important for Co. Kildare, but the upgrade to the M7 route is far, far more significant.

Junction 9a is an upgrade to the M7 and it’s been left unopened/incomplete for months.

FluffPiece

The only thing I'll say in defence of the delay is the current covid pandemic. It was always going to have an impact and cause a delay regardless. This doesn't excuse any delays pre-covid, but currently I don't expect much to be moved on in the short time and I don't think that's unreasonable.

Road surface and bumps in places was bad enough to be noticable mind you. Wasn't impressed by that at all, dunno why people gloss over the bumpy road in places, it's certainly noticable if paying attention considering the speeds.

KrisW1001

Tomrota wrote: »

Junction 9a is an upgrade to the M7 and it’s been left unopened/incomplete for months.

9a is not an upgrade to the M7: it's part of the Sallins bypass. And while it might help by removing some commuter traffic from M7 a little more quickly, it does not directly add any capacity to the M7.

Anatom

It doesn't matter, does it? So, can we please move on?

The two projects were / are linked together - fact. The Sallins by-pass would have been knocked on again for another ten or fifteen years if they hadn't been, so that is a very good thing.

The M7 is largely finished, with the exception of the J9A mess, and - yes, its a fact - the bad finish and frankly dangerous drainage issues.

The Sallins by-pass mess is due to a number of factors which have interrupted and delayed the Sallins by-pass project, not least of which is;
1) Incompetence and bad management from KCC. They don't seem to have any control or oversight of the project. Hands-off seems to be the tactic, unless there's a massive hue and cry from social media or someone higher up the food chain.
2) Lack of direction (I'm supposing here) to the contractor from KCC or central authority (NTI?) - see comment above. The project seemed to waft along with little urgency. Hence what we've seen with the 9A junction. That should have been identified as a problem and been changed long before they put the tarmac down over a year ago. However, I could be wrong and this might have had something to do with the point below...
3) Financial problems with contractor - SIAC are in serious financial trouble, and are being kept going (albeit on a shoestring) by KCC and this project. The lack of manpower on the route is ridiculous. At least with KCC when they throw people at a project, they go all-in. This, however, is just nuts.
4) COVID-19 - losing at least nine weeks of directly being shut down last year, and God-knows how many other knock-on delays otherwise, has undoubtedly caused problems. That's not a sufficient excuse though for the overall delay.

In saying all that, I do know that it'll get there. Whenever I have walked along the route recently I have noticed tangible improvements and developments each time. The link road into Sallins is now looking more finished in the past two weeks, and you can start to see what its going to look like.

Its just like waiting for a kettle to boil. It takes ages, and can be very frustrating.

riddlinrussell

I've posted a fair few times about when I expected it to be done, as someone living in the area at this stage its kind of just *shrug* "when its done its done"

Traffic levels in the town are reduced due to COVID so its not as bad as it was, I mostly want it to be done so KCC can move on to hopefully making Sallins public realm into a haven for pedestrians and cyclists.

Anatom

That's a whole new thread there..!

Pete_Cavan

Anatom wrote: »

It doesn't matter, does it? So, can we please move on?

The two projects were / are linked together - fact. The Sallins by-pass would have been knocked on again for another ten or fifteen years if they hadn't been, so that is a very good thing.

The M7 is largely finished, with the exception of the J9A mess, and - yes, its a fact - the bad finish and frankly dangerous drainage issues.

The Sallins by-pass mess is due to a number of factors which have interrupted and delayed the Sallins by-pass project, not least of which is;
1) Incompetence and bad management from KCC. They don't seem to have any control or oversight of the project. Hands-off seems to be the tactic, unless there's a massive hue and cry from social media or someone higher up the food chain.
2) Lack of direction (I'm supposing here) to the contractor from KCC or central authority (NTI?) - see comment above. The project seemed to waft along with little urgency. Hence what we've seen with the 9A junction. That should have been identified as a problem and been changed long before they put the tarmac down over a year ago. However, I could be wrong and this might have had something to do with the point below...
3) Financial problems with contractor - SIAC are in serious financial trouble, and are being kept going (albeit on a shoestring) by KCC and this project. The lack of manpower on the route is ridiculous. At least with KCC when they throw people at a project, they go all-in. This, however, is just nuts.
4) COVID-19 - losing at least nine weeks of directly being shut down last year, and God-knows how many other knock-on delays otherwise, has undoubtedly caused problems. That's not a sufficient excuse though for the overall delay

You are over-stating the contracting authorities role here. First off, they have consultants who represent them and do the design and most of the contract administration. Any design issues are almost certainly on them.

It is for the contractor to manage the construction process. If they are under-resourcing the project, there is very little the contracting authority can do only make their concerns known and remind them of their contractual obligations and implications of failing to meet them. Only if design changes happen will lack of direction come into it. It is also for the contractor to have sufficient cashflow, they are always paid in arrears for works done.

[Deleted User]

There is a lot of Project Manager bashing on here in relation to this Project. Project Managers are part of a wider team and are normally responsible for cost, effort and quality of the project. No one here really knows what is going on with the overall project and the external influences such as Covid-19, changes in priorities, stakeholder management etc.
If I were to lay just one criticism about this whole project it would be the lack of transparency and central communications to the public. The timelines outlined at the very start of this project have been initially met. Extenuating circumstances may well have played a big part in the illusion of a faltering project.
Hurry up and get it over with!
Slightly off topic but when the new junction opens up on the millennium ring road, it's likely NCC will be opening up shortly after and if they haven't put in a proper traffic plan for that school, it's going to be chaotic at school rush hour.

BuzzFish

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a lot of Project Manager bashing on here in relation to this Project. Project Managers are part of a wider team and are normally responsible for cost, effort and quality of the project. No one here really knows what is going on with the overall project and the external influences such as Covid-19, changes in priorities, stakeholder management etc.
If I were to lay just one criticism about this whole project it would be the lack of transparency and central communications to the public. The timelines outlined at the very start of this project have been initially met. Extenuating circumstances may well have played a big part in the illusion of a faltering project.
Hurry up and get it over with!
Slightly off topic but when the new junction opens up on the millennium ring road, it's likely NCC will be opening up shortly after and if they haven't put in a proper traffic plan for that school, it's going to be chaotic at school rush hour.

At this rate the school will be well up and running before the junction opens :rolleyes:

Anatom

Deleted User wrote: »

Slightly off topic but when the new junction opens up on the millennium ring road, it's likely NCC will be opening up shortly after and if they haven't put in a proper traffic plan for that school, it's going to be chaotic at school rush hour.

NCC will hopefully be open before Christmas this year. It won't be open in time for the new school year at the end of August, but should hopefully be ready by December. They lost a lot of construction time in an already tight schedule with the first lock-down.

The traffic piece should be ok. There'll be an increase, no doubt about it, but the way the car park / drop-off zones will work at the school should make it doable. There should be no cars seen stopping on the main ring-road, but there may be congestion on the off-shoot between that roundabout and the entrance into the school grounds.

Tomrota

Anatom wrote: »

NCC will hopefully be open before Christmas this year. It won't be open in time for the new school year at the end of August, but should hopefully be ready by December. They lost a lot of construction time in an already tight schedule with the first lock-down.

The traffic piece should be ok. There'll be an increase, no doubt about it, but the way the car park / drop-off zones will work at the school should make it doable. There should be no cars seen stopping on the main ring-road, but there may be congestion on the off-shoot between that roundabout and the entrance into the school grounds.

If cyclists continue to dangerously block the road while cycle tracks are provided, then I can see traffic being a real problem. Especially with the increased amount of cycling on this route when the schools open.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we leave cyclists out of this thread - they are not relevant.

benny79

I just noticed as I travel on the new stretch daily. There is no speed signs only the ones coming off the slip roads which state 120 kph. Now the Naas road has always been 100 kph since the 3 lanes anyway. After the ball in Naas it always went up to 120 kph which obviously has stayed the same. I know most the speed limits in this Country are all over the place at best. But its a bit weird having a speed limit of 100 kph on a 3 lane motorway (naas rd) that jumps to 120 kph after ball in Naas as its the same road plus theres no signs...

Why I ask is because they always seem to have the speed van on it now outbound!

Charles Babbage

benny79 wrote: »

I just noticed as I travel on the new stretch daily. There is no speed signs only the ones coming off the slip roads which state 120 kph. Now the Naas road has always been 100 kph since the 3 lanes anyway. After the ball in Naas it always went up to 120 kph which obviously has stayed the same. I know most the speed limits in this Country are all over the place at best. But its a bit weird having a speed limit of 100 kph on a 3 lane motorway (naas rd) that jumps to 120 kph after ball in Naas as its the same road plus theres no signs...

Why I ask is because they always seem to have the speed van on it now outbound!

The Naas Road is not a motorway.

riddlinrussell

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The Naas Road is not a motorway.

Indeed, it has many direct accesses and the junctions aren't up to spec to be classed as one.

benny79

apologises but my point was there been different speed limits on the same road lack of speed signs and the speed van been all over it.. Seems a bit unfair or not right imo.

silver2020

benny79 wrote: »

I just noticed as I travel on the new stretch daily. There is no speed signs only the ones coming off the slip roads which state 120 kph. Now the Naas road has always been 100 kph since the 3 lanes anyway. After the ball in Naas it always went up to 120 kph which obviously has stayed the same. I know most the speed limits in this Country are all over the place at best. But its a bit weird having a speed limit of 100 kph on a 3 lane motorway (naas rd) that jumps to 120 kph after ball in Naas as its the same road plus theres no signs...

Why I ask is because they always seem to have the speed van on it now outbound!

default speed on a national route is 100kmh. Should be fairly obvious its not a motorway, so assume 100kmh unless specified otherwise.

I think there are about 50 entrances/exits between Johnstown junction and Newlands cross - includes farm gates

benny79

silver2020 wrote: »

default speed on a national route is 100kmh. Should be fairly obvious its not a motorway, so assume 100kmh unless specified otherwise.

I think there are about 50 entrances/exits between Johnstown junction and Newlands cross - includes farm gates

Forget motorway. I know its not a motorway. My point was on the different limits and lack of limit /speed signs

silver2020

benny79 wrote: »

Forget motorway. I know its not a motorway. My point was on the different limits and lack of limit /speed signs

Its 100kmh from Newlands to start of M7 at all points and there are signs at every entry point. There are no sections under 100kmh.

WishUWereHere

benny79 wrote: »

apologises but my point was there been different speed limits on the same road lack of speed signs and the speed van been all over it.. Seems a bit unfair or not right imo.

I use the N/M 7 every working day as far south as J10. I have never seen a speed van on the M7. Yes the N 7 sure but as long as You are adhering to the 100kph speed You have nothing to fear. Once over the flyover at Newlands X ( I think it's only 80kph from the M50 to after the flyover ) the speed limit doesn't fluctuate from there on as far as the Ball, when it increases to 120.

BuzzFish

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

[Deleted User]

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

As the government have abandoned the NSL, there is a need to place signs at regular intervals on all roads, as opposed to only those where the limit is different to the NSL.

benny79

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

Exactly and that transition is basically a longer stretch of the N7 now even though its M7

_Kaiser_

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

There's 120 signs just after the Naas exit (9) outbound. Also on the parallel on-ramp

Be well and win

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I use the N/M 7 every working day as far south as J10. I have never seen a speed van on the M7. Yes the N 7 sure but as long as You are adhering to the 100kph speed You have nothing to fear. Once over the flyover at Newlands X ( I think it's only 80kph from the M50 to after the flyover ) the speed limit doesn't fluctuate from there on as far as the Ball, when it increases to 120.

I've seen them twice in recent weeks southbound before the new exit for Sallins.

Be well and win

BuzzFish wrote: »

I think the post above has been mis interpreted. The poster is saying that there are a lack of signs confirming the speed limit and mentions that on the transition from N7 to M7 there is no 120kph sign (been a while since I travelled it so I don’t know). I do think it’s a fair point though that the speed limit is not posted a few times along the route to remind people.

There is one 120 sign on the left hand side before the Round Ball.

FluffPiece

Had to travel on it yesterday to Dublin for appointment and saw plenty of signs along the N7 to remind people that it was 100kph. That with the non motorway standard exits / entrances, you'd be hard pressed to not know it wasn't a motorway.

Did see a Garda car in the designated Garda slip section not far from Kill, on the Dublin bound side.