M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

_Kaiser_

February 2021 now? It just gets more ridiculous.

silver2020

MYSTICA1 wrote: »

Latest opening date according to M7 upgrade website is “on schedule” for February 2021.
http://www.m7upgrade.com/
http://www.m7upgrade.com/

Cue the usual "experts" who will be around to moan and whine about it.

Sure they could have done better and have all the knowledge about road construction

_Kaiser_

silver2020 wrote: »

Cue the usual "experts" who will be around to moan and whine about it.

Sure they could have done better and have all the knowledge about road construction

And I'll ask the same question I always do to posts like this....


- Are you involved in the project yourself? Otherwise I genuinely can't see why people like yourself take the criticism so personally

- Is the time this is taking in any way acceptable given this is one of the busiest routes in the country, and given that for a significant period (at the start an now at the end) much of it has stood idle but still blocked off?

- Given the shoddy work that has been made of the surfacing in patches and the extremely poor right bend on the M7 outbound at the M9 exit, do you believe the extra time is because of higher quality/efforts being made?

- Do you believe the contractor(s) should face penalties for the continuing delay and repeated pushing of delivery dates (even allowing for CV-19)


This has been an extremely poorly planned, managed and implemented project from start to (eventual!) finish. When it's finally done there'll no doubt be corrective works needed almost immediately (eg: that bend I referred to, or the surface water/aquaplaning risk during heavy rain) at more expense and disruption, and the delays and missed dates are frankly ridiculous for such an important piece of infrastructure.

This project should stand as a learning experience of what NOT to do in future!

silver2020

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And I'll ask the same question I always do to posts like this....


- Are you involved in the project yourself? Otherwise I genuinely can't see why people like yourself take the criticism so personally

- Is the time this is taking in any way acceptable given this is one of the busiest routes in the country, and given that for a significant period (at the start an now at the end) much of it has stood idle but still blocked off?

- Given the shoddy work that has been made of the surfacing in patches and the extremely poor right bend on the M7 outbound at the M9 exit, do you believe the extra time is because of higher quality/efforts being made?

- Do you believe the contractor(s) should face penalties for the continuing delay and repeated pushing of delivery dates (even allowing for CV-19)


This has been an extremely poorly planned, managed and implemented project from start to (eventual!) finish. When it's finally done there'll no doubt be corrective works needed almost immediately (eg: that bend I referred to, or the surface water/aquaplaning risk during heavy rain) at more expense and disruption, and the delays and missed dates are frankly ridiculous for such an important piece of infrastructure.

This project should stand as a learning experience of what NOT to do in future!

and I'll ask what your expertise is in civil engineering?

You may wish to remember that this work was done with two lanes of traffic go by just a couple of metres from workers. A very tight space. The mainline was opened within the timeframe detailed in the original tender documents (spring 2020)

You may not travel the road - but it has been fully open for almost a year now.

Some "experts" (lol) claim x y & z, but I simply don't experience what they say - maybe I drive a decent car and they don't. I've yet to hear of an aquaplaning incident, I've yet to see any pothole, I yet to experience unevenness

Bend at M9 is strange, but that the design team and not the contractors.

The personal aspect is on the naysayers who absolutely search for negatives in everything. they seem to take it personal that it was to built to their dream perfection state where their crotchety cars suddenly become sooth limos.

and then when someone questions them and their lack of any actual knowledge they retort with the most stupid reply you get on boards "you must work for them"

For me, I save hours every week because delays are gone (even before covid) and accidents are now very rare. That's what I wanted and that's what I and most motorists got.

Kevtherev1

This project started November 2017 and is currently set to conclude February
2021. That is 40 months far too slow.

I am calling for Siac construction and Colas not to be given future state construction contracts for the next few years by TII and County Councils. They no doubt have been putting in tenders for the other road contracts.

_Kaiser_

Where to start....

silver2020 wrote: »

and I'll ask what your expertise is in civil engineering?

You may wish to remember that this work was done with two lanes of traffic go by just a couple of metres from workers. A very tight space. The mainline was opened within the timeframe detailed in the original tender documents (spring 2020)

You may not travel the road - but it has been fully open for almost a year now.

I'm fully aware that it's PARTLY (as J9a and link roads remain closed) open as I travelled it every day until March and now less frequently

You didn't address why large stretches of it lay idle for months at the start, nor why it's STILL not finished and actually FULLY opened.

And no, I'm not a road engineer - nor have I claimed to be - but I like tens of thousands of others have been affected by this shoddy project management and lost many hours to it.

Some "experts" (lol) claim x y & z, but I simply don't experience what they say - maybe I drive a decent car and they don't. I've yet to hear of an aquaplaning incident, I've yet to see any pothole, I yet to experience unevenness

I drive a 3 litre A6 with Quattro AWD and good tyres. It's built specifically for this sort of road and I can tell you the spray and water thrown up/standing in heavy rain is shocking for a new surface.

Bend at M9 is strange, but that the design team and not the contractors.

Irrelevant. It'll still need to be fixed at some stage no doubt.

The personal aspect is on the naysayers who absolutely search for negatives in everything. they seem to take it personal that it was to built to their dream perfection state where their crotchety cars suddenly become sooth limos.

and then when someone questions them and their lack of any actual knowledge they retort with the most stupid reply you get on boards "you must work for them"

For me, I save hours every week because delays are gone (even before covid) and accidents are now very rare. That's what I wanted and that's what I and most motorists got.

As above I drive a decent car and never claimed to be an expert. Yes it's made a big difference to outbound evening traffic and I don't think anyone has denied that - however that doesn't excuse the delays, poor and mixed comms (but yet plenty of time to do flashy marketing ads with drones), and the poor finish along certain parts of it

This acceptance of shoddy performance and results (the "be grand" attitude) doesn't wash with me.

In my (non-expert) view, the contractors involved should never be given such a significant piece of work in this country again.

silver2020

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Is the time this is taking in any way acceptable given this is one of the busiest routes in the country, and given that for a significant period (at the start an now at the end) much of it has stood idle but still blocked off?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm fully aware that it's PARTLY (as J9a and link roads remain closed) open as I travelled it every day until March and now less frequently

sort of conflicting with yourself?

Btw
jct 9a is part of the sallins bypass scheme - it was not part of the M7 upgrade. Both schemes were blended into one contract but both were separate.

The thread is about the M7 upgrade not the Sallins bypass.

M7 was opened within the timeframe stated at the very beginning. Just check back on this thread for confirmation

as for spray - if people did not tailgate, they would not have a high level of spray. Again, not something I have experienced. Maybe its special rain that falls when you are on the road?

Mantis Toboggan

The whole thing has been a disaster from the start, not surprised the finish date has been pushed back yet again.

BuzzFish

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The whole thing has been a disaster from the start, not surprised the finish date has been pushed back yet again.

Was once on the other side of the arguement but this project is a complete disaster now. No Comms, no updates and no accountability. I live a stone's through and they are throwing few resources at this. Osberstown bridge has one crew on it most days. Colos/Siac partnership has been a failure.

KrisW1001

M7, as a national network project, procured by the Department of Transport through TII, has a requirement, and allocated budget, for project communications with the public.

The Sallins Bypass, a regional route project that was commissioned by Kildare County Council, does not have the same requirements.

Darc19

The main issue in my opinion was the complete lack of communication.

So what if it's delayed, but would be good to know the reasons.

So what if there's a strange design at m9 merge, it would be good to know the reasons.

So what if jct 9a is not open, but good to know the reason.

The a14 upgrade in the uk was similar. The big difference is that they employed a person to keep the public updated every WEEK not once in a blue moon. They also had a Facebook page that was updated daily and answered people's queries.

And they even give details of the finishing works
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/a14-cambridge-to-huntingdon/finishing-work/

Communication is the key and it would stop the rumors and rubbish spouted by some people (see last year for examples of utter sh1te)

BuzzFish

Darc19 wrote: »

The main issue in my opinion was the complete lack of communication.

The main issues in my opinion is the total lack of quality and the inability to keep to communicated timelines.... and the unwillingness to open the finished J9a which for one thing is far less dangerous than J9.

regedit

A totally incompetent workmanship. Lack of leadership and shoddy quality with timelines that changed as works evolved.
If you look at my previous posts, I complained about people just sitting on their machines along the M7 for lengthy periods of time (no lunch breaks)and then leaving rapidly at 4 PM during summer months! I complained of an uneven surface (I drive Skoda Superb Sportline 4x4, 270 HP, one of the few in the country, with brand new Michelin tires), potholes, lines horizontal signage that was done as if though Kim Jong Un's kids did it with painting brushes.
As many others, I would appeal to the Government that Siac /Colas are discouraged from applying for capital tenders. Encourage foreign companies to come in and set the bar. The builders seem to have a few bots here who will support whatever the builders do and appeal for the moaning to stop but they are the ones who probably use the road selfdom and clearly their standards and expectations are way lower.
So dissapointed

silver2020

regedit wrote: »

A totally incompetent workmanship. Lack of leadership and shoddy quality with timelines that changed as works evolved.
If you look at my previous posts, I complained about people just sitting on their machines along the M7 for lengthy periods of time (no lunch breaks)and then leaving rapidly at 4 PM during summer months! I complained of an uneven surface (I drive Skoda Superb Sportline 4x4, 270 HP, one of the few in the country, with brand new Michelin tires), potholes, lines horizontal signage that was done as if though Kim Jong Un's kids did it with painting brushes.
As many others, I would appeal to the Government that Siac /Colas are discouraged from applying for capital tenders. Encourage foreign companies to come in and set the bar. The builders seem to have a few bots here who will support whatever the builders do and appeal for the moaning to stop but they are the ones who probably use the road selfdom and clearly their standards and expectations are way lower.
So dissapointed

This is laughable.

1 - Siac Colas is an international consortium. So that's that argument gone. Be sure to do a tiny bit of research before making such a ridiculous statement
https://www.colas.co.uk/about-us/colas-group/

2. Potholes? - I think there was one issue a couple of days after the top layer was laid and most likely caused by an object falling onto the surface before dressing was applied. As it was done at night, that is always a risk. It was corrected within days, and no other pothole has appeared, yet you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about this one small surface of less than 1m in size and about 3cm of depth (not officially a pothole) issue that was corrected very quickly.

3. Uneven surface? - I've yet to experience it. Maybe check your suspension. Its certainly a very quiet and smooth surface - substantially quieter and smoother than the surface from M9 jct onwards by proverbial miles

4 Line painting at jct9 - I'll give you that one. Its a little off and probably needs rethinking. Rather minor in the overall scheme of things

As I said, it saves me time, its whisper quiet and smooth, there have been a miniscule number of accidents and that's the purpose of it.

regedit

silver2020 wrote: »

This is laughable.

1 - Siac Colas is an international consortium. So that's that argument gone. Be sure to do a tiny bit of research before making such a ridiculous statement
https://www.colas.co.uk/about-us/colas-group/

Nothing preventing the Government to pu them at a disadvantage for future projects owing to their most recent delivery!

2. Potholes? - I think there was one issue a couple of days after the top layer was laid and most likely caused by an object falling onto the surface before dressing was applied. As it was done at night, that is always a risk. It was corrected within days, and no other pothole has appeared, yet you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about this one small surface of less than 1m in size and about 3cm of depth (not officially a pothole) issue that was corrected very quickly.
Unfortunately, I cannot take pictures while driving but there were potholes that were addressed but point is if these emerged before even formal handover to KCC, what will the future bring!

3. Uneven surface? - I've yet to experience it. Maybe check your suspension. Its certainly a very quiet and smooth surface - substantially quieter and smoother than the surface from M9 jct onwards by proverbial miles

I am not the only one saying this. Your suspension must be different from everyone else.

4 Line painting at jct9 - I'll give you that one. Its a little off and probably needs rethinking. Rather minor in the overall scheme of things

As I said, it saves me time, its whisper quiet and smooth, there have been a miniscule number of accidents and that's the purpose of it.

I am not contesting the save in time. I'm just questioning the quality, timeliness, communication =the whole delivery of the project

BuzzFish

MYSTICA1 wrote: »

Latest opening date according to M7 upgrade website is “on schedule” for February 2021.
http://www.m7upgrade.com/
http://www.m7upgrade.com/

Honestly, could comms be any worse?

End of Q1 2021 (which is end of March in my book)... according to KCC:
http://www.kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/PressReleasesAdverts/N7M7-R407UpgradeProjectUpdate07122020.html

completed by February 2021 on the project website:
http://www.m7upgrade.com/

Absolute muppets. Its laughable really. Anyone who defends this shower at this point must have a vested interest.
They cannot even say the same thing on the same day.

silver2020

silver2020 wrote: »

This is laughable.

1 - Siac Colas is an international consortium. So that's that argument gone. Be sure to do a tiny bit of research before making such a ridiculous statement
https://www.colas.co.uk/about-us/colas-group/

All the construction is being done by SIAC, whom Colas have a 34% investment in. Colas offered 'management'. SIAC are Irish through and through and have a well-deserved negative reputation regardless of contract type. It's also a JV rather than a consortium, which are generally created for funding purposes/mitigating risk - rather than a consortium that scopes a project and divides up responsibilities.

3. Uneven surface? - I've yet to experience it. Maybe check your suspension. Its certainly a very quiet and smooth surface - substantially quieter and smoother than the surface from M9 jct onwards by proverbial miles

God you come out with this ****e every time, despite multiple users noting the same phenomenon.


"Maybe your new car that you regularly drive all over Ireland only has this response on THIS specific patch of tarmac because of magical suspension fairies"

spacetweek

MYSTICA1 wrote: »

Latest opening date according to M7 upgrade website is “on schedule” for February 2021.

"On schedule" is taking the urine a bit considering how late they are.

MYSTICA1

spacetweek wrote: »

"On schedule" is taking the urine a bit considering how late they are.

That’s why I put it in quotation marks?

How many promises on completion have they made to date and they now still have the audacity to include “on schedule” in their latest press release?

Nobody has managed this project properly.. KCC, TII & national government should all be ashamed of their performance here.

As others have suggested, big lessons should be learned from this, at the very least.

champchamp

"On Friday, 22 September 2017, DTTaS, TII and Kildare County Council announced the award of the M7 Naas to Newbridge Bypass Upgrade, M7 Osberstown Interchange and R407 Sallins Bypass to the SIAC/Colas JV. This commences one of the most significant road schemes contained in the Government’s Building on Recovery Programme.

This contract consists of three major elements and is scheduled for full completion early 2020:
1.Widening the existing M7 motorway from two lanes to three lanes both eastbound and westbound for approximately 14km, between Junction 9 Naas North, at Maudlins (Perpetual Motion Ball) and the M7/M9 interchange at Junction 11.
2.Replacing and relocating the existing ramps at Junction 10 Naas South Newhall to the main Naas Newbridge dual carriageway, the R445. Also to include the construction of a new interchange at Osberstown between Junctions 9 and 10 which will be designated Junction 9a.
3.The Sallins Bypass which includes approximately 1.7km of new Type 2 Dual Carriageway and 2.0km of single carriageway, together with a 1.2km single carriageway link road from the Bypass to Sallins town centre".

http://www.m7upgrade.com/overview

It doesn't seem like it's on schedule to me.

BuzzFish

Took a pic from each side of the Osberstown bridge. One faces towards Naas (M7) and the other towards Sallins (railway underpass in this pic).

Good to see tarmac finally going in.

riddlinrussell

BuzzFish wrote: »

Took a pic from each side of the Osberstown bridge. One faces towards Naas (M7) and the other towards Sallins (railway underpass in this pic).

Good to see tarmac finally going in.

So in the above pictures the cycleway along this project ends about 100m north of the Railway bridge (Buzzfishes second image).

There have been post-hoc complaints about the cycleway not continuing on, through the Junction and linking in at Kerry Group/Naas Community College.

The partial solution is the ramps currently being built from the Canal bank onto the Naas Ring Road, but it still leaves cyclists with negotiating the canal road, through the narrow old railway bridge, and then contending with the Osberstown road for about 100m before reaching the Canal bank road, so the provision is not sufficient.

It seems like works are now underway to clear the canal side, possibly to develop an off-road solution for the Osberstown road section, although I haven't seen any plans for such a thing.

I could see new Cycling and walking space being put in to the Kerry Group roundabout at a later date, narrowing the lanes on this section.

BuzzFish

riddlinrussell wrote: »

So in the above pictures the cycleway along this project ends about 100m north of the Railway bridge (Buzzfishes second image).

There have been post-hoc complaints about the cycleway not continuing on, through the Junction and linking in at Kerry Group/Naas Community College.

The partial solution is the ramps currently being built from the Canal bank onto the Naas Ring Road, but it still leaves cyclists with negotiating the canal road, through the narrow old railway bridge, and then contending with the Osberstown road for about 100m before reaching the Canal bank road, so the provision is not sufficient.

It seems like works are now underway to clear the canal side, possibly to develop an off-road solution for the Osberstown road section, although I haven't seen any plans for such a thing.

I could see new Cycling and walking space being put in to the Kerry Group roundabout at a later date, narrowing the lanes on this section.

Once in place cyclists can use the two crossing bridges (to be constructed) below to get where they need to go, either into Naas, or onto the Millenium Road. They can also join the Greenway into Dublin, once completed.

Longer term, there should be no need to mix cyclists and motorway exiting/entering traffic on the bridge next to Kerry Group.

MYSTICA1

New drone footage
https://youtu.be/VKxxsZ4OGzk

I see in the latest newsletter from James Lawless that the Sallins bypass will be finished by " end of Q1 2021"

BuzzFish

So the farce continues....

I drove past the Kerry Group earlier and there is a lot of plant working on the link up to the new junction from the millenium road. Tearing the place apart, pulling up large pipes from the side of the road (or the banking) with CAT machinery (on tracks not wheels) sitting on the new tarmac surface (so that will need relaying).

Must try get a closer look but they've obviously found a major issue there to be ripping it up like that.

Anatom

Are they not just widening the lanes on the junctions there? I haven't seen it yet today, but those turns looked very tight to be used regularly by lorries etc.

_Kaiser_

Anatom wrote: »

Are they not just widening the lanes on the junctions there? I haven't seen it yet today, but those turns looked very tight to be used regularly by lorries etc.

Hopefully. Of course this was evident to anyone who passed it for months now but better late than never I guess!

silver2020

BuzzFish wrote: »

So the farce continues....

I drove past the Kerry Group earlier and there is a lot of plant working on the link up to the new junction from the millenium road. Tearing the place apart, pulling up large pipes from the side of the road (or the banking) with CAT machinery (on tracks not wheels) sitting on the new tarmac surface (so that will need relaying).

Must try get a closer look but they've obviously found a major issue there to be ripping it up like that.

The contractors must build to the specifications of the design team.

If the design team see that something has not worked out as they planned, then it is for them to change it and get the contractors to make those changes.

So you can't blame the contractors for this.

BuzzFish

silver2020 wrote: »

The contractors must build to the specifications of the design team.

If the design team see that something has not worked out as they planned, then it is for them to change it and get the contractors to make those changes.

So you can't blame the contractors for this.

I don't see a change of design, I see a load of pipework being pulled up again. I wonder if the drainage has failed to work correctly or something. It doesn't look like road widening.