Guinness SIX Nations 2021

PMC83 · 06-02-2021 09:03PM

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Exactly

Don't get me wrong, I seriously doubt Healy would be tempted to Scotland over one good performance from the national side.

Rugby4568 · 06-02-2021 09:10PM

PMC83 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I seriously doubt Healy would be tempted to Scotland over one good performance from the national side.

Same here. I just think it would be easier for him to get into the Scottish team than the Irish team as Ireland have way more talented out halves than Scotland do. We also have Harry Byrne, Jack Crowley and David Hawkshaw who can play out half too and they’re all similar age to Healy. Just think he’d find it easier to break into the Scotland team than the Irish team that’s all. Ireland have so much depth in outhalves that’s why I think it would be easier for him to get into the Scottish team.

sydthebeat · 06-02-2021 09:13PM

PMC83 wrote: »

Lions Finn Russell? Didn't look like a lions pick tonight tbh, played like a total cowboy! Kicks going everywhere

Doesn't matter... Ben Healy would be easily 4th choice for Scotland and no where near first choice for either of their club teams.

Is that a better place to be compared to vying with JJ hanrahan for first choice for munster behind a consistently injured joey carbery?

Anyone who says ben healy is better off in Scotland knows nothing, Jon snow...

Rugby4568 · 06-02-2021 09:17PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Doesn't matter... Ben Healy would be easily 4th choice for Scotland and no where near first choice for either of their club teams.

Is that a better place to be compared to vying with JJ hanrahan for first choice for munster behind a consistently injured joey carbery?

Anyone who says ben healy is better off in Scotland knows nothing, Jon snow...

Do you think he’s more likely to get game time for Ireland ?

PMC83 · 06-02-2021 09:29PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Doesn't matter... Ben Healy would be easily 4th choice for Scotland and no where near first choice for either of their club teams.

Is that a better place to be compared to vying with JJ hanrahan for first choice for munster behind a consistently injured joey carbery?

Anyone who says ben healy is better off in Scotland knows nothing, Jon snow...

Ok we'll gloss over your lions comment because it was probably heat of the moment. I agree he'd be no where near first choice for the Scottish national team, but you'd have to imagine he'd be knocking on the door for a start at Glasgow or Edinburgh if he got a decent run together. Neither exactly lighting the world up with amazing 10s. At worst he'd be number 2. If Joey gets fit at Munster hes right back to number 3.

lawrencesummers · 06-02-2021 09:31PM

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Do you think he’s more likely to get game time for Ireland ?

Nobody is getting any meaningful game time for Ireland as long as Sexton is around.

And only Johnny is deciding when Johnny isn’t going to be around any more.

I will be shocked the day that Sexton is fit but sits on the bench against a Tier 1 side. It’s a long way off

Tommybojangles · 06-02-2021 09:38PM

Rugby4568 wrote: »

I think Ben Healy is a very good player and is a better kicker than Russell. Healy would start for Scotland in my opinion and would of got those kicks that Hogg and Russell missed.

How did anyone even reply to this

06-02-2021 09:44PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Nobody is getting any meaningful game time for Ireland until they demonstrate why they are better than Sexton

FYP there Lawrence!

sydthebeat · 06-02-2021 09:47PM

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Do you think he’s more likely to get game time for Ireland ?

At his level..

100%

lawrencesummers · 06-02-2021 09:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

FYP there Lawrence!

And who has been the best Irish OH since the seasons started back up? Il give you a clue - it’s not JS.

And why are they not getting a chance? Because sexton is undroppable.

So nobody is better, even though some have been playing better and nobody is getting a chance to show they are better because nobody is better.

Watch what happens against Italy.

If sexton is fit will he bench?

Curse These Metal Hands · 06-02-2021 10:36PM

Have to agree that the BBC's assessment of Russell's performance is ludicrous. Making errors like that against a team playing reasonably well would lead to disaster. He completely got away with not costing them the game.

06-02-2021 10:52PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And who has been the best Irish OH since the seasons started back up? Il give you a clue - it’s not JS.

And why are they not getting a chance? Because sexton is undroppable.

So nobody is better, even though some have been playing better and nobody is getting a chance to show they are better because nobody is better.

Watch what happens against Italy.

If sexton is fit will he bench?

I don't think Sexton has been at his best, I wouldn't pick any of the other options ahead of him for tomorrow even though I fear he could go off early.

I'd be interested to hear who you think is better and why?

Akrasia · 06-02-2021 11:15PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think Sexton has been at his best, I wouldn't pick any of the other options ahead of him for tomorrow even though I fear he could go off early.

I'd be interested to hear who you think is better and why?

I think this will be Sextons last season as 1st choice 10
I think he’ll play most or all of this 6N, some of the summer and autumn tests, and by this time next year there will be a New 1st choice 10. Part of this is because he is prone to injury, coming to his retirement age, and the other part is that competition is coming up from below. If Carbery returns and retains his form, he’ll be knocking at the door straight away, then the likes of Billy Burns, Carty, Madigan, Healy etc will all be viable options with test/HCup experience

Sexton will be in his late 30s at the next World Cup, we cannot possibly go into that tournament without at least one reliably fit experienced international fly half

lawrencesummers · 06-02-2021 11:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think Sexton has been at his best, I wouldn't pick any of the other options ahead of him for tomorrow even though I fear he could go off early.

I'd be interested to hear who you think is better and why?

Im just replying to your point that "nobody is getting game time until they are better"

I can understand Sexton starting, he has the highest level of all the Irish OH's currently available even though he clearly hasn't been playing at that level, but I would like to see another player given the decent chance.

We are a third place 6N team with ambition of top two, and a RWC QF team with ambitions of a SF. I don't think we can have our cake and eat it.

One of the Key positions on the pitch and we are hurtling towards a RWC without any meaningful succession plan.

Consider this, once this 6N ends we have about 15-20 games against tier 1 opposition before the RWC starts in which to blood an alternative.

07-02-2021 12:02AM

In case anyone wants to enjoy again:

07-02-2021 12:05AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Im just replying to your point that "nobody is getting game time until they are better"

I can understand Sexton starting, he has the highest level of all the Irish OH's currently available even though he clearly hasn't been playing at that level, but I would like to see another player given the decent chance.

We are a third place 6N team with ambition of top two, and a RWC QF team with ambitions of a SF. I don't think we can have our cake and eat it.

One of the Key positions on the pitch and we are hurtling towards a RWC without any meaningful succession plan.

Consider this, once this 6N ends we have about 15-20 games against tier 1 opposition before the RWC starts in which to blood an alternative.

That's fair enough.

What do you think is more important - winning the six nations / grand slam or giving game time to either Billy Burns or Ross Byrne?

I'm not sure either are going to be the starting outhalf for the world cup to be honest so I'm not sure what purpose giving either game time is, when it could cost us this tournament.

Boscoirl · 07-02-2021 12:13AM

Scotland were lucky they played England in the first round.

They will be a different kettle of fish when we play them in round 5

Buer · 07-02-2021 12:21AM

Boscoirl wrote: »

Scotland were lucky they played England in the first round.

They will be a different kettle of fish when we play them in round 5

Haven't read back over the thread but this is going to prove extremely accurate.

The Saracens players, for the most part, really lacked sharpness or fitness. Itoje is normally a force of nature but was that fraction off that led to him being whistled off the park. George and Vunipola were clearly ill prepared. Daly was mediocre. Farrell had one brilliant kick but clearly wasn't as active and influential as he normally is. Maitland was the exception but he was never really tested and his pack were on top throughout.

They'll all be fully sharpened by the final day. They'll also have someone like Lawes fully up to speed and won't keep Hill on the field as long if at all.

Where Ireland can make hay is in the three quarters. Scotland showed that Redpath was able to get over the gain line repeatedly in the first half. Henshaw should be utilised repeatedly. But I think England was going to bring Ford back and move Farrell to 12 after today.

Tomorrow will be interesting. There's a massive swing between what will happen if we win or lose tomorrow. Win and people will be touting us as tournament winners. Lose and we see potentially finishing 5th.

Burkie1203 · 07-02-2021 12:26AM

Buer wrote: »

Haven't read back over the thread but this is going to prove extremely accurate.

The Saracens players, for the most part, really lacked sharpness or fitness. Itoje is normally a force of nature but was that fraction off that led to him being whistled off the park. George and Vunipola were clearly ill prepared. Daly was mediocre. Farrell had one brilliant kick but clearly wasn't as active and influential as he normally is. Maitland was the exception but he was never really tested and his pack were on top throughout.

They'll all be fully sharpened by the final day. They'll also have someone like Lawes fully up to speed and won't keep Hill on the field as long if at all.

Thats 2 week break in the GP when Europe got called off might not have been the best idea.

penybont exile · 07-02-2021 12:37AM

Don't you just love the 6N ...... even without the stadium atmosphere.

Great win for the Scots today ..... bettered England all over the park. Would have been a travesty if they'd contrived to blow it which could have happened on a couple of occasions towards the end.

Was a bit ambivalent towards this years tournament .... but that's changed today. Just off a few drinks with the lads back home .....nice to have a chat about the rugby after the crap we've all had to deal with this last year.

Hope it's a good game tomorrow ..... surely there can't be three away wins on match weekend 1!

Akrasia · 07-02-2021 12:45AM

The joy of watching Scotland is that they always have it in them to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory. Fair play to them today. They took the lead and kept it. The 6nations is undoubtedly the best annual international rugby tournament in the world (or at least the best in the world north of the equator)

flatface · 07-02-2021 01:01AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Finn Russell doesn’t have the temperament, application or attitude to be a top top player.

He has more natural talent than any other OH in contention for the lions jersey but he doesn’t have an ounce of the ruthless, determined and win at all costs attitude that Owen Farrell or Sexton have.

It’s only a year ago he was sent home from international duty because he was on the Raz, refused to stop drinking and didn’t turn up for training.

He clearly doesn’t take his S&C work seriously and could have singlehandedly lost a game today that every other team member bust a gut winning.

What a completely selfish and unprofessional waste of an abundance of talent he is

Reminds me of this I saw on hard work vs talent:

https://wisdomofcoaches.com/the-four-types-of-athletes-you-will-coach/

It’s stuck with me as I work in professional art and I see the same pattern with high talent/low work artists being the heart breakers. You see someone with crazy natural talent that never had to work hard for it and you can waste tons of time trying to get them to harness it successfully in a professional environment. Frustrating. I now see more value in the hard work element than an intoxicating talent.

joseywhales · 07-02-2021 04:42AM

I don't know the intoxicating talent can be good sometimes

Digifriendly · 07-02-2021 08:11AM

Buer wrote: »

Haven't read back over the thread but this is going to prove extremely accurate.

The Saracens players, for the most part, really lacked sharpness or fitness. Itoje is normally a force of nature but was that fraction off that led to him being whistled off the park. George and Vunipola were clearly ill prepared. Daly was mediocre. Farrell had one brilliant kick but clearly wasn't as active and influential as he normally is. Maitland was the exception but he was never really tested and his pack were on top throughout.

They'll all be fully sharpened by the final day. They'll also have someone like Lawes fully up to speed and won't keep Hill on the field as long if at all.

Where Ireland can make hay is in the three quarters. Scotland showed that Redpath was able to get over the gain line repeatedly in the first half. Henshaw should be utilised repeatedly. But I think England was going to bring Ford back and move Farrell to 12 after today.

Tomorrow will be interesting. There's a massive swing between what will happen if we win or lose tomorrow. Win and people will be touting us as tournament winners. Lose and we see potentially finishing 5th.

How was Itoje whistled off the park when there were no spectators? Also IMHO Daly was by far England's best performer on the pitch.

razorblunt · 07-02-2021 08:17AM

Digifriendly wrote: »

How was Itoje whistled off the park when there were no spectators? Also IMHO Daly was by far England's best performer on the pitch.

Whistled off the park refers to the referee not the fans.
Brace caught Itoje for quite a lot of the things he usually gets away with, saying that he still got away with a lot more and should have been carded (team yellow card not anything dangerous) in the second half.

pickarooney · 07-02-2021 09:07AM

joseywhales wrote: »

I don't know the intoxicating talent can be good sometimes

'Can be good sometimes' is utterly frustrating.
Like Finn Russell

baaba maal · 07-02-2021 09:50AM

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Nothing it’s just an interesting fact

On McKinley having only one eye. To be accurate (and I have heard Ian being interviewed where he makes this point to correct the interviewer)- he has both eyes, one is damaged so he is only sighted in one. I'm not adding this to be pedantic- it seems to be important to him for his situation to be reported accurately. As the eye was damaged playing rugby, and he went through that whole process of returning to the game with the development of the goggles etc. it is reasonable to highlight this on a rugby forum.

I'm actually enjoying his punditry, he has an assured presence and is willing to give an opinion (although him saying that he expected Italy and France to be close was optimistic to say the least!).

Somebody else mentioned that he lacked generosity in comparing Burns with Byrne. I think he did his job properly- he is himself an experienced ten asked to comment on two possible incumbents for the Ireland role and he gave a clear opinion.

fryup · 07-02-2021 10:06AM

would scotland have won in a full stadium ?

what do you rugby people think or is it academic ?

stephen_n · 07-02-2021 10:45AM

baaba maal wrote: »

Somebody else mentioned that he lacked generosity in comparing Burns with Byrne. I think he did his job properly- he is himself an experienced ten asked to comment on two possible incumbents for the Ireland role and he gave a clear opinion.

I didn’t see this, what was his view on that?

07-02-2021 10:55AM

Deleted User wrote: »

We've beaten Italy by similar margins on numerous occasions of late. It was a good performance and France have improved a lot, but if we go well tomorrow and I have a sneaking suspicion we will - then I wouldn't have France more than a 50/50 coming over here.

France will beat the green off us.

This place has an obscene belief in this Irish setup.

Guinness SIX Nations 2021

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