Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 08:38PM

flazio wrote: »

Didn't Mercedes-Benz say they'd let Grosjean take an old car of theirs out for a fun spin when he's up to it.
Not as a test to replace Hamilton or anything, just as a good will recovery aid.

They did alright. But I think that was if Grosjean wasn’t able to race again depending on his injuries. He wanted it so he would know he wasn’t frightened by the prospect. Not sure if he will want it now he has secured a drive elsewhere.

It’ll be interesting to see if they will give him a spin. Ferrari could have given him a few laps when they had the young drivers testing last week.

Frank Bullitt · 03-02-2021 10:30PM

https://twitter.com/HillF1/status/1357044407338467335

A veto on his teammate, Rosberg really left his mark

El_Duderino 09 · 03-02-2021 10:58PM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

https://twitter.com/HillF1/status/1357044407338467335

A veto on his teammate, Rosberg really left his mark

If true then it’s cowardly. He talks about how much he loves the competition, but if this is true then it’s the opposite of all that talk.

Frank Bullitt · 03-02-2021 11:00PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If true then it’s cowardly. He talks about how much he loves the competition, but if this is true then it’s the opposite of all that talk.

I can also imagine the performance of Russel being a rather large factor in that as well.

A lot of lead drivers can ask for vetos etc on teammates, Prost did it to Senna. I do agree with you though, this is a bit of a cowards approach to not stir the pot.

BBDBB · 03-02-2021 11:18PM

On balance I don’t think that the veto clause is genuine, at best it’s a negotiation tactic, ask for something you won’t get in order to get something you do really want when you later drop it.

It wouldn’t reflect well on Lewis who does pride himself on his public image

At this moment Lewis needs Mercedes more than Mercedes need Lewis. Why? Mercedes have the best car by a distance proven by Bottas comfortable 2nd place and Russell’s performance (not result) in the car in his absence. Lewis wants to be the GOAT, he’s currently stuck on sharing the number of world titles, he needs Merc to make that happen before his inevitable decline/retirement

To further stir the pot, I’m not sure he would veto young pup Russell, I reckon if it’s serious, it’s to stop the likes of Vettel, Verstappen or even Alonso

It’s going to be very revealing re who calls the shots at Mercedes when it plays out

recyclebin · 03-02-2021 11:34PM

Hamilton with a veto would be a bit like Ferraris veto. It may ever actually be used but a good bargaining chip to have in back pocket. It would also rule out Verstappen as a team mate, but Russell would probably be acceptable in 2022 if Hamilton already has title number 8 by then.

mickdw · 03-02-2021 11:58PM

recyclebin wrote: »

Hamilton with a veto would be a bit like Ferraris veto. It may ever actually be used but a good bargaining chip to have in back pocket. It would also rule out Verstappen as a team mate, but Russell would probably be acceptable in 2022 if Hamilton already has title number 8 by then.

He always says all he wants is equal status.
If he is looking to control who his team mate is behind the scenes, well that is a disgrace.
No shame in wanting to control a team and have it built up around you - plenty of the greats have done that openly but claiming to happily take on anyone in equal machinery and doing different via the legal team is a sh1tty move and wouldnt surprise me.

muckwarrior · 04-02-2021 12:32AM

Things we can confidently say will happen this year:
- Hamilton will beat Bottas to the championship again.
- Verstappen will be the closest rival.
- Vectra will say something stupid, which El_Dudarino will immediately take him to task on, and a silly argument will ensue for several pages, much to the consternation of other posters.

vectra · 04-02-2021 02:19AM

muckwarrior wrote: »

Things we can confidently say will happen this year:
- Hamilton will beat Bottas to the championship again.
- Verstappen will be the closest rival.
- Vectra will say something stupid, which El_Dudarino will immediately take him to task on jump on like a dog with a bitch in heat, and a silly argument will ensue for several pages, much to the consternation of other posters.

FYP

OH
And that stupid thing you are referring to was a simple question and of course El_Dude jumped on it like a rash.

BBDBB · 04-02-2021 08:57AM

Perhaps more significant to the Hamilton/Mercedes negotiation will the introduction of the salary cap. (next year? part way through the contract)As I understand it, Hamilton is paid already more at the moment with his current deal significantly more than the salary cap will permit Mercedes spending on BOTH drivers

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2021 11:01AM

BBDBB wrote: »

Perhaps more significant to the Hamilton/Mercedes negotiation will the introduction of the salary cap. (next year? part way through the contract)As I understand it, Hamilton is paid already more at the moment with his current deal significantly more than the salary cap will permit Mercedes spending on BOTH drivers

I’d be surprised if they’re isn’t a way around it, at least in the beginning. Like I’d be surprised if it isn’t phased in, so they could pay the bulk of Hamilton’s contract in the first year.

And how does it work with bonuses? Are bonuses and “brand ambassador” role payments included in the cap?

Knowing F1, there will be plenty of ways around it for the rich teams.

duploelabs · 04-02-2021 11:11AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

BBDBB wrote: »

Perhaps more significant to the Hamilton/Mercedes negotiation will the introduction of the salary cap. (next year? part way through the contract)As I understand it, Hamilton is paid already more at the moment with his current deal significantly more than the salary cap will permit Mercedes spending on BOTH drivers[/quote

I’d be surprised if they’re isn’t a way around it, at least in the beginning. Like I’d be surprised if it isn’t phased in, so they could pay the bulk of Hamilton’s contract in the first year.

And how does it work with bonuses? Are bonuses and “brand ambassador” role payments included in the cap?

Knowing F1, there will be plenty of ways around it for the rich teams.

I doubt the brand ambassador role is taken into a wage cap as that would be hamilton along getting endorsement from someone like hublot rather than mercedes themselves

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2021 11:28AM

duploelabs wrote: »

I doubt the brand ambassador role is taken into a wage cap as that would be hamilton along getting endorsement from someone like hublot rather than mercedes themselves

I wonder if Ineos (or some other companies owned by Ineos or Mercedes) could personally sponsor him as well as being the team's main shareholders? I'd say there are loads of ways around the pay cap.

quokula · 04-02-2021 11:31AM

This is it wrote: »

I don't think so. It would be serious competition for Hamilton and I don't think he wants that. He'll want to go out winning not fighting and possibly coming 2nd

Yeah I'm surprised so many people think this is a possibility. Hamilton and Russell in the same team will never happen. Unless Bottas decides to quit, he will never be replaced as long as Lewis is at the team. There have been ample reasons and opportunities to drop him before now and they've never considered it, as it is pretty obvious that Hamilton would veto it.

El_Duderino 09 · 04-02-2021 12:05PM

quokula wrote: »

Yeah I'm surprised so many people think this is a possibility. Hamilton and Russell in the same team will never happen. Unless Bottas decides to quit, he will never be replaced as long as Lewis is at the team. There have been ample reasons and opportunities to drop him before now and they've never considered it, as it is pretty obvious that Hamilton would veto it.

I suppose they have no reason to consider it now because they win the drivers’ and constructors’ championships with ease. If they needed a driver faster than Bottas in the second seat it would force the issue.

But unless that happens, I could only see them putting Russell in the car in Hamilton’s last year to get him used to the team so he can be team leader the following year. But if Hamilton has a veto, then that idea goes down the drain.

It’s a real pity to watch Russell waste his time in a Williams. But it’s definitely the right decision him to wait and then hope to dominate in the Mercedes when he gets his chance.

Jordan 199 · 04-02-2021 02:38PM

Alpha Tauri launch on the 19th of February.

recyclebin · 04-02-2021 09:16PM

I think Russell will be in the Mercedes in 2022 regardless of whether Hamilton is there or not. Bottas contract won't be renewed after this year unless Hamilton retires at the end of the season. Bottas was lucky he had a contract for 2021 before Russell stepped in for Hamilton in Bahrain.

Charlie-Bravo · 04-02-2021 09:49PM

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Alpha Tauri launch on the 19th of February.

I feel a 2021 Launch Date thread is going to be needed!

Frank Bullitt · 04-02-2021 11:47PM

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

I feel a 2021 Launch Date thread is going to be needed!

I love this time of the year where I get excited to see new cars, and then get my hopes of a good season dashed once testing starts.

Adamocovic · 05-02-2021 12:03AM

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

I feel a 2021 Launch Date thread is going to be needed!

Just give us the damn Aston Martin livery already!

Love the launches, eagerly waiting to see what they come up with.

05-02-2021 12:21AM

Slight interest in the AM livery. Aside from that I couldn't care, gonna be pretty much the same shapes as last year, with a little bit of the annoyingly big floors removed.

Jordan 199 · 05-02-2021 12:56AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Just give us the damn Aston Martin livery already!

Can't wait for the Alpine one meself

Jordan 199 · 05-02-2021 05:13AM

Car launch dates confirmed so far:

McLaren: 15th of February.

Alpha Tauri: 19th of February.

Alfa Romeo: 22nd of February.

Mercedes: 2nd of March.

Williams: 5th of March.

El_Duderino 09 · 05-02-2021 11:52AM

Some interesting chats in the latest Autosport podcase. They're big fans of Stefano Domenicali as head of Liberty Media. SD said that reverse grids are out of the discussion and they're looking at the idea of sprint races on Saturdays.

I expect F1 fans will hate the idea of sprint races too. I think, every year they just have to throw out the idea of a new format, wait for the fans to hate it and then say "well, we tried", and then continue the way they've always done it.

They also suggested a double-header to start the season as Portugal is experiencing a wave of Covid at the moment so they're probably out of contention.

05-02-2021 12:19PM

I don't see how a sprint race would help the teams tbh, what's an extra front wing cost these days, 10 or 15k? Engines are already turned way down to last a stupid number of races.

Probes · 05-02-2021 12:22PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't see how a sprint race would help the teams tbh, what's an extra front wing cost these days, 10 or 15k? Engines are already turned way down to last a stupid number of races.

A sprint race with hard compound tyres where drivers can go flat out for the whole race could be fun and give saturdays a bit of a lift.

duploelabs · 05-02-2021 12:28PM

Probes wrote: »

A sprint race with hard compound tyres where drivers can go flat out for the whole race could be fun and give saturdays a bit of a lift.

What would make the sprint races matter is if it decided the grid for the main race as used in other formats

Inquitus · 05-02-2021 01:28PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Some interesting chats in the latest Autosport podcase. They're big fans of Stefano Domenicali as head of Liberty Media. SD said that reverse grids are out of the discussion and they're looking at the idea of sprint races on Saturdays.

I expect F1 fans will hate the idea of sprint races too. I think, every year they just have to throw out the idea of a new format, wait for the fans to hate it and then say "well, we tried", and then continue the way they've always done it.

They also suggested a double-header to start the season as Portugal is experiencing a wave of Covid at the moment so they're probably out of contention.

A sprint race with 1/2 or 1/4 points would be ok by me I think, no reverse grids or other nonsense though, F1 must remain a meritocracy.

El_Duderino 09 · 05-02-2021 01:43PM

Inquitus wrote: »

A sprint race with 1/2 or 1/4 points would be ok by me I think, no reverse grids or other nonsense though, F1 must remain a meritocracy.

It is a meritocracy now. The best team gets the most money hires the best staff, best drivers and makes the best car and wins the championships with ease every year. That’s what we all want, total dominant and none of that close competition nonsense, right?

We know who’s going to win before the season even starts. What’s not to like about that?

Inquitus · 05-02-2021 01:56PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It is a meritocracy now. The best team gets the most money hires the best staff, best drivers and makes the best car and wins the championships with ease every year. That’s what we all want, total dominant and none of that close competition nonsense, right?

We know who’s going to win before the season even starts. What’s not to like about that?

I am utterly against anything that tries to change the racing from a meritocracy to some warped balance of performance crap, even if it means the title race is uncompetitive, F1 has always been a meritocracy and should always remain so. All dominant runs have come to an end throughout the history of F1, and the same will happen to Mercedes F1 one day soon, perhaps this season, perhaps not, we shall see.

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Comments