Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

02-02-2021 10:21PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Flu hospitalisation led to hospital overruns in 2018 that were unmanageable.

https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13443

We heard no outcry by ANYONE to shut everyone in their houses or burn a thriving economy to the ground and turn entire country into a near police state with huge entry and exit restrictions.

It’s wholly undefendable

Excess deaths in 2018 were a fraction of those in 2020, with a severe flu season and a hard winter

02-02-2021 10:26PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Like clockwork, you in with your passive aggressive comment.

The clapping seals are our media and citizens who are encouraging this deranged human experiment in the belief that a Government can control an invisible virus that thankfully, normal people across Europe are starting to protest against!

Look at the comment before you thank would be my advice - 99% survival rate, sure it’s nothing. Now actually apply some critical thinking and you will understand that in an average year only 0.6% of the population die. 99% survival rate more than doubles the odds of the average person dying.

And the studies bare that out. For all age groups, the odds of dying in a given year form all other causes, are pretty close to the odds of dying of Covid.

FintanMcluskey · 02-02-2021 10:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Excess deaths in 2018 were a fraction of those in 2020, with a severe flu season and a hard winter

Will you link proof of those figures?

Necro · 02-02-2021 10:39PM

Mod:

raind and Silentcorner, quit sniping at each other or don't post in this thread. If you can't respond in a civil manner to each other put each other on ignore

Silentcorner · 02-02-2021 10:46PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Will you link proof of those figures?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175417-excess-mortality-rate/

There seems to be a little confusion regarding the excess deaths....oddly enough.

We have had about 2,500 Covid related deaths up to 31st Dec.

We know a heavy percentage of these people had comorbidities.

We see an annual death rate of circa 30,000....I don't think we will see the full years figures for another month or two!!

What gives?

02-02-2021 10:51PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Will you link proof of those figures?

2020 numbers are work in progress as we are quite slow at reporting, but actually for Ireland, 2018 with the bad winter flu had one of the lowest ever death rates. Surprised at that. We will see where 2020 lands eventually

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/death-rate

I had actually being thinking about the European figures which did record a significant excess in 2018 which was associated with flu and severe weather but this was dwarfed in 2020
https://www.euromomo.eu/

JP Liz V1 · 02-02-2021 10:51PM

Micheál Martin has warned that non-essential retail is unlikely to reopen after March 5 when current restrictions are due to be lifted.

The country is due to exit Level 5 at that point. However, Mr Martin said he was committed to the “prolonged suppression” of the virus.

02-02-2021 10:52PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1102/1175417-excess-mortality-rate/

There seems to be a little confusion regarding the excess deaths....oddly enough.

We have had about 2,500 Covid related deaths up to 31st Dec.

We know a heavy percentage of these people had comorbidities.

We see an annual death rate of circa 30,000....I don't think we will see the full years figures for another month or two!!

What gives?

Where numbers are generally more up to date than here excess mortality is close to Covid death rate

https://www.euromomo.eu/

VonLuck · 02-02-2021 10:59PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

It has a survival rate of 99%. I'd say its manageable.

Ah yeah. Sure preventing the deaths of 49,000 of the Irish population is not worthwhile. Just a drop in the ocean.

Also you seem to have skimmed over the point about ICU admissions.

Dickie10 · 02-02-2021 11:00PM

acequion wrote: »

This is an excellent article, thanks for posting it. It amuses me that there are a great many people who try to discredit the claims of that article and also try to rubbish the grievances of protesters. They like to paint them as some kind of lunatic fringe who no self respecting person would associate with. Very untrue.

The simple truth is pointed out in that article. The Irish are deeply reverential and subservient to authority. There is a notion here in Ireland that the boss /politicians/ CMO/ Mr so and so down the street, even one time the school master, the priest and the local guard, all know better and they're right. And you're wrong and who are who to question these gods, do you not know your place! It goes back very far in our psyche and it's disturbing. Especially when you read that in Holland, well educated people are protesting for their right to freedom. Or read the rather charming anecdote about the Parisian lady out walking her dog after curfew and arguing vehemently with the police. Good for her! These people are not lunatics or retrogrades, just articulate, educated people questioning and challenging decisions which hugely affect their lives and which they disagree with.

Such a shame we don't do more of it here. But again great article. As an English teacher I'm going to show it and discuss it with my students. Maybe the next generation mightn't be so unquestioningly subservient.

Teacher here too. Somewhere embedded in our psyche i think is the fear of loss of property and our absolute crawing and scrabling for property/land/house that sees us not wanting to associate with the protest brigade. The Irish cant help themselves but to stand on someones throat to get ahead. I dont know its probably the years of oppression we have a serious hunger to get ahead of our kinfolk and when we get ahead matierially /financially we dont give a look back. It will take a generation or two who will have to have been worse off than there parents , its a long time since that happened in Ireland, but sign are its happening in Irish farming families, whose Golden Age seems to have bben and now gone/going. Family farms are near there end game.Speaking from a farmer here.

Silentcorner · 02-02-2021 11:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Where numbers are generally more up to date than here excess mortality is close to Covid death rate

https://www.euromomo.eu/

According to the CSO, up till the end of Oct there were 22,416 deaths recorded.

I'm going to stick with the CSO figures, they are the least likely to be playing games...and I understand there may well be deaths in that period not counted for yet, but up until Oct, there doesn't seem to be much excess death.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/fr/fr-ucd2020/analysisofunderlyingcauseofdeathdataincludingcovid-19januarytooctober2020/

I believe there was excess deaths recorded in Mar/April but that it fell below average for the summer, so I gotta say, why are people being led to believe there was excess deaths in 2020?

Dickie10 · 02-02-2021 11:02PM

under 1000 cases today. end game in sight, thankfully government seem to be thinking along the lines of normal service resuming in June/July. Donnelly said he sees crowds back at sporting events and music festivals before summer is out.

PTH2009 · 02-02-2021 11:05PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

under 1000 cases today. end game in sight, thankfully government seem to be thinking along the lines of normal service resuming in June/July. Donnelly said he sees crowds back at sporting events and music festivals before summer is out.

Hopefully but won't be holding my breath

02-02-2021 11:06PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

According to the CSO, up till the end of Oct there were 22,416 deaths recorded.

I'm going to stick with the CSO figures, they are the least likely to be playing games...and I understand there may well be deaths in that period not counted for yet, but up until Oct, there doesn't seem to be much excess death.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/fr/fr-ucd2020/analysisofunderlyingcauseofdeathdataincludingcovid-19januarytooctober2020/

We will see when they are finalised, but even so, the European figures are relevant. Excess deaths throughput Euromomo are within 20% of Covid deaths. Individual population pockets within the area may have greater variation locally, but when averaged over half a continent it gives a good indication that recorded covid deaths reflect the excess fairly closely.

Dickie10 · 02-02-2021 11:07PM

keep thinking to myself when 70+group are vaxxed , deaths/hospitilastions have to fall off a cliff you would imagine. if numbers are low cant see pubs/hotels not being open

Seweryn · 02-02-2021 11:12PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

According to the CSO, up till the end of Oct there were 22,416 deaths recorded.

I'm going to stick with the CSO figures, they are the least likely to be playing games...and I understand there may well be deaths in that period not counted for yet, but up until Oct, there doesn't seem to be much excess death.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/fr/fr-ucd2020/analysisofunderlyingcauseofdeathdataincludingcovid-19januarytooctober2020/

I believe there was excess deaths recorded in Mar/April but that it fell below average for the summer, so I gotta say, why are people being led to believe there was excess deaths in 2020?

I can't see anything excessive in the last year's numbers. There were over 26k deaths recorded between January and October 2018 for example.

And yeah, the article from the RTE website doesn't make much sense. No solid numbers to compare between years.

Silentcorner · 02-02-2021 11:13PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

keep thinking to myself when 70+group are vaxxed , deaths/hospitilastions have to fall off a cliff you would imagine. if numbers are low cant see pubs/hotels not being open

It is madness, there are probably 400k -500k who have some degree of immunity on top of the over 70s who will be vaccinated...we will be in level 5 for all intents and purposes in March/April because...if it shoots up again, what? Do they think even in a worst case senario it will be the same as December, the depths of winter? Do they not believe in any kind of herd immunity?

What we are witnessing is the consequence of weak leadership, Martin and Varadkar are just poor, they can't seem to get a handle on what is happening and we all have to suffer as a result....Martin probably feels he made a mistake in Dec and will not be accused of making that mistake again...he is that one dimensional and intellectually shallow!

Mr. Karate · 02-02-2021 11:17PM

VonLuck wrote: »

Ah yeah. Sure preventing the deaths of 49,000 of the Irish population is not worthwhile. Just a drop in the ocean.

Also you seem to have skimmed over the point about ICU admissions.

People WILL die. That's an unavoidable part of life. We've had a Flu vaccine for as long as damn near all of us posting on here have been alive. Yet people still die from the flu. We can't stay in lockdown forever. And Holohan and co are idiots to think they can squash by destroying our lives and livelihoods.

JP Liz V1 · 02-02-2021 11:21PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

under 1000 cases today. end game in sight, thankfully government seem to be thinking along the lines of normal service resuming in June/July. Donnelly said he sees crowds back at sporting events and music festivals before summer is out.

101 deaths, maybe next summer if all of the country is vaccinated

Graham · 02-02-2021 11:22PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

People WILL die. That's an unavoidable part of life.

Great observation.

Let's not kill more of them off unnecessarily.

Mr. Karate · 02-02-2021 11:25PM

Graham wrote: »

Great observation.

Let's not kill more of them off unnecessarily.

Yeah. Let's keep these lockdowns going so they can commit suicide instead. Great idea.

02-02-2021 11:27PM

January 2021 tax revenue is down 520M compared to January 2020.

VAT receipts are down 340M

The cost of this is insane!!!

Graham · 02-02-2021 11:28PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Yeah. Let's keep these lockdowns going so they can commit suicide instead. Great idea.

So the choices are, restrictions or suicide. :rolleyes:

Good use of the false dilemma fallacy though. Props.

wakka12 · 02-02-2021 11:28PM

https://twitter.com/gav4sax/status/1356727654544736256

KrustyUCC · 02-02-2021 11:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

January 2021 tax revenue is down 520M compared to January 2020.

VAT receipts are down 340M

The cost of this is insane!!!

It's mad yet martin, varadkar and Tony are talking about a slow painful reopening of the economy and restrictions for the remainder of the year

FintanMcluskey · 02-02-2021 11:29PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

101 deaths, maybe next summer if all of the country is vaccinated

83 of those deaths were in January though.

hynesie08 · 02-02-2021 11:31PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Yeah. Let's keep these lockdowns going so they can commit suicide instead. Great idea.

There's a certain level of pathetic you have to be to try and weaponise suicide. Congratulations.

KrustyUCC · 02-02-2021 11:32PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Brilliant from Martin

Gotta keep non essential retail closed and a slow reopening of the economy

Couldn't get people back to work

Nah he prefers to keeping paying them instead

FintanMcluskey · 02-02-2021 11:33PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It's mad yet martin, varadkar and Tony are talking about a slow painful reopening of the economy and restrictions for the remainder of the year

Because they are guaranteed the inflated pensions and safety the plebs aren’t.

A TD’s basic salary is upwards of €98,000.

Hopefully people soon realise the populist approach is the only approach that’s been taken so far

Malcomex · 02-02-2021 11:34PM

Is there a mask available that prevents a person becoming infected?

Assuming a face guard is worn

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings