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Vehicle ammunition box

  • 31-01-2021 1:21pm
    #1
    zeissman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭


    My mates firearms cert is up for renewal so he left the form into his local station.
    He got a phone call yesterday from a garda saying he wants to inspect his vehicle ammunition box.
    Anyone else come across this or is it local supers making up laws again.
    I know ammunition has to be in a lockable container when travelling but i can't see how this effects his renewal.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    clivej
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,061 ✭✭✭clivej


    zeissman wrote: »
    My mates firearms cert is up for renewal so he left the form into his local station.
    He got a phone call yesterday from a garda saying he wants to inspect his vehicle ammunition box.
    Anyone else come across this or is it local supers making up laws again.
    I know ammunition has to be in a lockable container when travelling but i can't see how this effects his renewal.

    I would presume that it's to check that your mate has the required lockalbe ammo box for storage when in transport.
    You could tell him that you have a lockable glove and that complies with the legal requirement and that is where you lock your ammo whilst in transport. OR like I have and that is the smallest lockable plastic tool box I could find that fits the requirement, about €6. It only holds enough ammo for a usual range trip--- 300 22lr, 100 38spl, 40 308.
    OR show them any lockable toolbox that you use.


  • #3
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    zeissman wrote: »
    Anyone else come across this or is it local supers making up laws again.
    SI420/2019, section 4(c):
    4C. Subject to Regulation 4D, a holder or an excepted person shall, when transporting the relevant firearm or ammunition for the relevant firearm in a vehicle, ensure that -

    (a) the relevant firearm is-

    (i) concealed from view, and

    (ii) stored separately from the ammunition, and

    (b) the ammunition is stored in a receptacle that is locked.
    So it says the ammo must be in a locked receptible when transporting which means the Super is not making it up.
    I know ammunition has to be in a lockable container when travelling but i can't see how this effects his renewal.
    As of the creation of this SI, based on EU directive, all persons must have the ammo locked when at home and when driving. The simple solution is to buy a steel/plastic ammo can and a lock.

    Your friend can bring this in or take a picture of it and submit it to the FO and say this is being used both at home and during transport.

    The law does not say it must be permanently attached to the car and i wouldn't even mention that for fear you give them ideas. This will satisfy the FO and the law.
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  • #4
    .243
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭.243


    Or just send a photo of the cars glovebox if it’s lockable 😂


  • #5
    zeissman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭zeissman


    .243 wrote: »
    Or just send a photo of the cars glovebox if it’s lockable 😂

    He said he wants to come and inspect it.


  • #6
    clivej
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,061 ✭✭✭clivej


    zeissman wrote: »
    He said he wants to come and inspect it.

    then drive to the garda station


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  • #7
    The pigeon man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 473 ✭✭The pigeon man


    Drive to the Garda station. Bring the garda over to the car, open your empty boot, close it and lock it with your key.

    You have demonstrated your locked receptacle to the garda


  • #8
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Except that it has to be seperate to the firearm.


  • #9
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Buy a pound shop briefcase or even a bag of some sort with a pound shop lock.
    That fulfils 100% the requirement of a lockable receptacle as per the law. Leave it in the car and let him inspect it;)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #10
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    I purchased a lockable ammunition box from John Lambert for €10. He has a range of different sizes all of which meet the legal requirements. Alternatively you could purchase something else that will do the job in Woodies.


  • #11
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Witcher wrote: »
    Except that it has to be seperate to the firearm.

    How far separate? Doesn't specify either.IE does one have to be in the driver's compartment and the other in the trunk? Or both in separate containers in the trunk? Lots of questions the law doesn't answer there.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • #12
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    How far separate? Doesn't specify either.IE does one have to be in the driver's compartment and the other in the trunk? Or both in separate containers in the trunk? Lots of questions the law doesn't answer there.

    What's a trunk:confused::D

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #13
    Wadi14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    Feisar wrote: »
    What's a trunk:confused::D

    It's a part of a tree, elephants have been known to use them also.


  • #14
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    How far separate? Doesn't specify either.IE does one have to be in the driver's compartment and the other in the trunk? Or both in separate containers in the trunk? Lots of questions the law doesn't answer there.

    IE you can't fling the firearm and lose boxes of ammo into the boot and say 'the boot's a locked receptacle'

    Just buy an ammo box ffs and put a padlock on it, people here looking for issues where there are none and trying to be cute.


  • #15
    alan0387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭alan0387


    I bought a plastic "ammo can" from ebay. Was about €12. Made by Amtech, same brand you see selling tools in the likes of Mr. Price. Cheap and holds 1200 rounds of cci subs in the 100 round boxes. Has a spot for a lock too. Even comes in a nice OD green.

    I keep my license allowance of 500 rounds along with my bore snake, trigger lock keys, mags and a microfibre cloth.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233657852916


  • #16
    clivej
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,061 ✭✭✭clivej


    You can have your firearm in its bag or case. And the ammo in a locked box, in the boot together, thus separate. But what is NOT separate is the firearm and the ammo in the same bag or case.


  • #17
    Mississippi.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭Mississippi.


    I have one of those 22" cantilever metal toolboxes, and I just take some of the bigger stuff out of the bottom section to let the cartridge belt fit in and snap a padlock on, just leave the screwdrivers and spanners in the top sections even.


  • #18
    The pigeon man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 473 ✭✭The pigeon man


    Gun on the back seat in a slip or case. Ammunition in the locked boot. SI complied with.


  • #19
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I use a toolbox with a padlock and a short bit of a chain. You don't really have to go to any great expense.


  • #20
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The pigeon man wrote: »
    Gun on the back seat in a slip or case. Ammunition in the locked boot. SI complied with.

    Might be better if it was the other way around. Gun in a slip or a case looks like a gun. Ammo in a toolbox or other box just looks like a box.

    Anyway, my thinking is that both should be in the boot, in separate containers.


  • #21
    civdef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    I use the surplus ammo cans, was going to tig weld on a hasp for a lock till saw this video:

    https://youtu.be/oXQvMR1VIu0


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  • #22
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Might be better if it was the other way around. Gun in a slip or a case looks like a gun. Ammo in a toolbox or other box just looks like a box.

    Anyway, my thinking is that both should be in the boot, in separate containers.

    Not good if you are driving an open pickup crew cab.:D
    Found these for internal storage and transport. Lockable,and impossible to access the gun if you are driving.
    https://www.hubertus-collection.de/Waffen-und-Munitionszubehoer/Waffenfutteral-Gewehrfutterale-fuer-PKW-und-Fahrzeuge/Fahrzeug-Filz-Waffenfutterale-MOBIL-fuer-2-Langwaffe-Art-Nr-HU-20183002::2444.html

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #23
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    civdef wrote: »
    I use the surplus ammo cans, was going to tig weld on a hasp for a lock till saw this video:
    Doing this for almost 10 years.

    An American i shot against back in 2011 gave me some empty ammo cans he had (to save paying to ship them home) and he showed me this way to lock them.

    6034073


    I think they call them "life hacks". Like the tin foil trays your chinese take away comes in. Its "wrinkled" so you can fold it out to act as a bowl/plate or the hole in the end of the handle of a saucepan is for holding your wooden spoon.
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  • #24
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    e
    the tin foil trays your chinese take away comes in. Its "wrinkled" so you can fold it out to act as a bowl/plate or the hole in the end of the handle of a saucepan is for holding your wooden spoon
    .

    Learned something new there today! Thanks!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #25
    Zxthinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    What's the craic with not using a gun bag.. when transporting a gun in a car van truck etc


    A fizzing lockable wallet is the way to go. Especially for hunters..


  • #26
    J.R.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Cass wrote: »
    Doing this for almost 10 years.

    An American i shot against back in 2011 gave me some empty ammo cans he had (to save paying to ship them home) and he showed me this way to lock them.

    6034073


    I think they call them "life hacks". Like the tin foil trays your chinese take away comes in. Its "wrinkled" so you can fold it out to act as a bowl/plate or the hole in the end of the handle of a saucepan is for holding your wooden spoon.

    Ha!....had to read the beginning of that second line again!!!


  • #27
    Kat1170
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭Kat1170


    Cass wrote: »
    Doing this for almost 10 years.

    An American i shot against back in 2011 gave me some empty ammo cans he had (to save paying to ship them home) and he showed me this way to lock them. I think they call them "life hacks". Like the tin foil trays your chinese take away comes in. Its "wrinkled" so you can fold it out to act as a bowl/plate or the hole in the end of the handle of a saucepan is for holding your wooden spoon.
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Learned something new there today! Thanks!


    HERE ya go :D:D


  • #28
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    J.R. wrote: »
    Ha!....had to read the beginning of that second line again!!!

    Jesus, yeah.

    Everyone please make sure to read words 5 to 8 too, before panicking. :D
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  • #29
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Kat1170 wrote: »
    HERE ya go :D:D

    Thanks. Now i have to read all those posts to see how i've being doing things wrong.
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  • #30
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Cass wrote: »
    Like the tin foil trays your chinese take away comes in. Its "wrinkled" so you can fold it out to act as a bowl/plate

    :eek:

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • #31
    JP22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 585 ✭✭✭JP22


    Lads, whether you agree/disagree with the current regs is not the issue, its just a lockable ammo box and a requirement to have same.

    I have been using 50cal ammo boxes for years, its like using a safe even for just one firearm; its best practice, its peace of mind, it keeps your family and inquisitive small fingers safe and it meets whatever requirements you are currently asked for.

    Just get a box, job done, end of, nothing hard in that.


  • #32
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    A variation on Cass's:

    thumbnail.jpg

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #33
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    What's the craic with not using a gun bag.. when transporting a gun in a car van truck etc


    A fizzing lockable wallet is the way to go. Especially for hunters..


    https://www.hubertus-collection.de/W...002::2444.html
    __________________

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #34
    ReganBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭ReganBrady


    Earlier we had bought the box from the market and was around or less than €12, we could have bought the different or bigger sized but that solved our legal requirements, rest you can buy the one which would also do the task is home or travelling time, good stuff I knew here liked it learning more now.


  • #35
    slipperyox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    Anything wrong with using motorcycle panniers? While on a motorcycle?

    According to the SI, its more "on" the vehicle, than "in".

    But still a locked container


  • #36
    zeissman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭zeissman


    Update.
    My mate had his inspection today.
    He checked his gun safe and ammo safe in the house and his ammo box for the vehicle.
    He got one of those metal ammo boxes and put a padlock on it and he was happy enough.
    He did say that a locked glove box was not acceptable but a plastic toolbox with a lock was OK.


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  • #37
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    zeissman wrote: »
    He did say that a locked glove box was not acceptable but a plastic toolbox with a lock was OK.
    Knew that would never fly. It was discussed when the SI came in.

    The glovebox is part of the car so if the car was robbed the ammo is gone. Whereas in a separate box the ammo can, securely, be taken from the car.


    Glad he got sorted though.
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  • #38
    slipperyox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    Cass wrote: »
    Knew that would never fly. It was discussed when the SI came in.

    The glovebox is part of the car so if the car was robbed the ammo is gone. Whereas in a separate box the ammo can, securely, be taken from the car.


    Glad he got sorted though.

    So the Garda interpreted the SI, as the glovebox not being a locked receptacle?

    Not arguing, but who writes these SI's in the first place :rolleyes:


  • #39
    Zxthinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Cass wrote: »
    Knew that would never fly. It was discussed when the SI came in.

    The glovebox is part of the car so if the car was robbed the ammo is gone. Whereas in a separate box the ammo can, securely, be taken from the car.


    Glad he got sorted though.

    Again, more intervention and garda rules. I don't have a specific box in which I lock ammo when I'm out in the car. If I'm going out I'll grab something and stick it in the boot and throw a combination lock on it.
    Cops had no business inspecting his carry-box unless he is was travelling.

    In fairness the discussion about the glove box going down the road with the car is a fair point but my van ( not the car) has a tool box bolted to the floor.. And to be honest I think I'll bolt a ammo can into the cars boot😇I like the clean design of the silver stud. Simple to fit with only one drill hole.

    On a different note. You go out shopping in Navan and decide to buy a box of special offer ammo at the sports den😅
    You have no firearm in the car. U left the box and at home! Are you allowed to bring the recently acquired ammo home in the car without a lock-box..
    The whole thing is brought in for sensible reasons but you can see how it can go too far... by some super-cop.. lol 😂


  • #40
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    slipperyox wrote: »
    Not arguing, but who writes these SI's in the first place :rolleyes:

    My take is this.

    Some Minister has a notion on how to create an SI based on the current public opinion. Makes them look pro-active. They have an SI written up, checked for legality and that it doesn't conflict with the Act and then sign it into law.

    A couple of days, weeks, months after the SI some group points out faults with it and how its legal but creates a problem or loophole. ITs then put on the backburner until it cannot be ignored any further and eventually changed to suit.

    IOW the work that should have been by the authors of the SI is done by the shooting bodies/persons and changed months, even years, later.

    The people involved from start to finish have no idea of how the SI will affect the Act or the sport and make something unworkable, and frankly i don't think they care. They get to say how they "took guns off the streets" and that is enough of a soundbite come election time.
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  • #41
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    Cops had no business inspecting his carry-box unless he is was travelling.
    Not really. They cannot wait until you are traveling to see if you comply with the law because if you're not at this point you're in breach of the Act/SI.

    With all due respect this is not a big issue and one i kinda agree with. A €15 or €20 locked box will satisfy all conditions so just buy one or two of them and you never have to worry about it.
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  • #42
    slipperyox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    Cass wrote: »
    My take is this.

    Some Minister has a notion on how to create an SI based on the current public opinion. Makes them look pro-active. They have an SI written up, checked for legality and that it doesn't conflict with the Act and then sign it into law.

    A couple of days, weeks, months after the SI some group points out faults with it and how its legal but creates a problem or loophole. ITs then put on the backburner until it cannot be ignored any further and eventually changed to suit.

    IOW the work that should have been by the authors of the SI is done by the shooting bodies/persons and changed months, even years, later.

    The people involved from start to finish have no idea of how the SI will affect the Act or the sport and make something unworkable, and frankly i don't think they care. They get to say how they "took guns off the streets" and that is enough of a soundbite come election time.

    Why not just do what the Irish have done for years with everything.
    Copy the British system.
    :D


  • #43
    Zxthinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Zxthinger wrote: »

    On a different note. You go out shopping in Navan and decide to buy a box of special offer ammo at the sports den😅
    You have no firearm in the car. U left the box and at home! Are you allowed to bring the recently acquired ammo home in the car without a lock-box..
    The whole thing is brought in for sensible reasons but you can see how it can go too far... by some super-cop.. lol 😂

    Any thoughts on this..


  • #44
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    An Irish solution for an Irish problem!

    thumbnail1.jpg

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #45
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    Any thoughts on this..

    Joking aside it's not something I ever thought of. I must throw a lockable box in the boot.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #46
    Zxthinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Feisar wrote: »
    Joking aside it's not something I ever thought of. I must throw a lockable box in the boot.
    I had a similar bag but it was a laptop bag..

    This rule is not going to really affect the success of a thief however it most surely will stop little fingers getting access to dangerous item..

    For that reason allow it needs to be supported..

    God forbid that any small child be hurt.. but it pains me to think of such things..

    However I can't help think that it was only introduced to catch out those who drive around shooting into fields..


  • #47
    alan0387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭alan0387


    slipperyox wrote: »
    Why not just do what the Irish have done for years with everything.
    Copy the British system.
    :D

    Far better system in the UK. If I remember right your license is £80 per year, but you have 10 slots to use (but your moderator uses a seperate slot too). And airguns below 12ft lbs are not required to be licensed.

    Id happily use that system. Of course the powers that be pick a setup that suits them best, not the end user.

    Eg; take the mot model and introduce as the nct, but don't allow garages to be licensed.


  • #48
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    alan0387 wrote: »
    Id happily use that system.
    Yeah, i don't know.

    No pistols (not really but you know), attacks on large caliber rifles, no semi auto rifles, lands to be inspected for hunting suitability, and the air gun thing might be changing soon with Scotland and Britain considering introducing licensing for all rifles.

    I like their licensing system and if that is what you meant only then i'd agree with you, but other features and laws in the UK, well they can have them.

    Sometimes the grass is not greener.
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  • #49
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    slipperyox wrote: »
    So the Garda interpreted the SI, as the glovebox not being a locked receptacle?

    Not arguing, but who writes these SI's in the first place :rolleyes:
    As this was tack on gold plating to the EU directive on semi-autos and mag capacity.This was Ireland catching up with our EU overlords. I have personally met the man who drafted this part of the legislation in the Doj in Dec 2019
    A more beuractratic caricature is impossible to imagine in real life.
    However, to his credit,and in the land of nudge and wink,it was left ambiguous to us this part with a "locked container" actually is.;)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #50
    Zxthinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭Zxthinger


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    As this was tack on gold plating to the EU directive on semi-autos and mag capacity.This was Ireland catching up with our EU overlords. I have personally met the man who drafted this part of the legislation in the Doj in Dec 2019
    A more beuractratic caricature is impossible to imagine in real life.
    However, to his credit,and in the land of nudge and wink,it was left ambiguous to us this part with a "locked container" actually is.;)

    Without looking through it all again, was it not a "Locked receptacle" lol


  • #51
    alan0387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭alan0387


    Cass wrote: »
    I like their licensing system and if that is what you meant only then i'd agree with you, but other features and laws in the UK, well they can have them.

    Yes thats what I meant, I like the single license covering multiple firearms, and the airgun laws too. But yes some of the other stuff they are facing is utter sh1te.


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