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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #2132
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Kunta Kinte wrote: »
    I suppose somebody can quote Artice 30 to the Garda all they want. It will at least pass a few minutes while the Garda is taking details before issuing them with the increased 500 euro fine for breach of the travel regulations.


    Don't forget yourself twitching the curtains on the phone to the gards ratting on your neighbours


  • #2133
    Cerveza
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭Cerveza


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    Don't forget yourself twitching the curtains on the phone to the gards ratting on your neighbours

    What’s this scandal about?


  • #2134
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,350 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    wakka12 wrote: »
    No they weren't
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/
    5 year average deaths Sweden 90,500
    Deaths 2020 98,000

    Be that as it may. Its certainly not 60% as froog's graphic suggests. More like ~ 8%.


  • #2135
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Be that as it may. Its certainly not 60% as froog's graphic suggests. More like < 10%.

    We love to look at these in isolation. But in reality there is more going on. So for example lockdown, has reduced deaths from other causes because people are not doing those things. On the flip side if you're ignoring C19, and overloading your health system. It maybe causing deaths, as there isn't capacity to deal with the issues that normally wouldn't cause an issue.

    But even ignoring all of that, as a sweeping generalization, Sweden is bad example to argue for herd immunity.


  • #2136
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Motor cars or sex didn’t kill 1000 Irish citizens this January ....grow up amaceen....

    Why does it matter what month a life is snuffed out early?


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  • #2137
    Vital Transformation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Vital Transformation


    uli84 wrote: »
    Some good news from abroad, Map shows Polish businesses reopening in defiance of “illegal” lockdown, glad to see good few court cases won

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/01/15/map-shows-polish-businesses-reopening-in-defiance-of-illegal-lockdown/

    Nightclubs posing as political party headquarters, love it.


  • #2138
    Kunta Kinte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Kunta Kinte


    Cerveza wrote: »
    What’s this scandal about?

    It`s just the usual ranting typical of a particular cohort on here.


  • #2139
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    wakka12 wrote: »
    No they weren't
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/
    5 year average deaths Sweden 90,500
    Deaths 2020 98,000

    This will shock you, Swedish population has increased by 1 million people between 2010 and 2020.

    You need to use deaths per million for accurate death figure.

    You realise that population size matters?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115930148&postcount=8072

    Look out for the 2nd graph.

    I am sorry but this is the reality. But you can get creative I suppose and only look at last 3 years or just year on year. aka desperate :rolleyes:


  • #2140
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    ....
    I just still struggle to be convinced to see the cost effectiveness of long term stay at home orders and business closures...

    It bit like insurance. If you never need it, it wasn't cost effective.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    An adult conversation around death needs to take place soon ....

    These conversations happen all the time. Its just that you've not had experience of it. Even before Covid if someone needs treatment, but is unlikely, very unlikely to recover, those questions will be asked. This is not unique to C19.


  • #2141
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,606 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Cerveza wrote: »
    Time to book the holiday, quote article 30 to the Garda when stopped happy days.
    Ha good luck with that.
    Good way to come across like GO'D or one of her odd ball supporters


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  • #2142
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    ....

    Froog I know this isnt easy to take, but lockdowns genuinely do not do as much as you think they do.

    have you ever wondered why, if lockdowns are so effective and useful, a cost benefit analysis of a lockdown has not been conducted or published by the govt?

    Look at this is reverse. This current lock down was caused by lifting restriction for Xmas. So working out the cost of this lockdown, is actually working out the cost of lifting restrictions early.

    So if you were a business with no income under level 5 but do under level 3. Must be possible to workout what xmas cost you.

    Likewise it has extended the lockdown. So if you know per month how much it costing you. You should be able to work out how much extending it costs you.


  • #2143
    Renault 5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Renault 5


    It would be nice if Garden Centres would be open.

    just saying:)


  • #2144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    This will shock you, Swedish population has increased by 1 million people between 2010 and 2020.

    You need to use deaths per million for accurate death figure.

    You realise that population size matters?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115930148&postcount=8072

    Look out for the 2nd graph.

    I am sorry but this is the reality. But you can get creative I suppose and only look at last 3 years or just year on year. aka desperate :rolleyes:

    Another 3,000 deaths have been added since. Also there was a clear downward trend in deaths per million over the 10 year snapshot


  • #2145
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    I am not dismissing this but you need to give a little context.
    Like what is blue and what is red and most importantly in 'excess' to what exactly? 2019? An average of something?

    Also mortality tables and excess deaths is measured over a year.

    the red blue are just male and female.


  • #2146
    VonLuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You think lockdown prevented 50M deaths and the economy is grand...

    Let’s not get into comprehension on things

    Taking the worst death rate per million of 1,818 in Belgium and extrapolating this across to the world population that equates to 14 million deaths which is huge. I've taken the worst case as a guess to the average death rate across the world assuming that no restrictions are in place, but it's impossible to estimate how high the figure could be if nothing was done to curb the spread.


  • #2147
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Another 3,000 deaths have been added since. Also there was a clear downward trend in deaths per million over the 10 year snapshot

    Are suggesting death rate was decreasing previously?


  • #2148
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    beauf wrote: »
    Look at this is reverse. This current lock down was caused by lifting restriction for Xmas. So working out the cost of this lockdown, is actually working out the cost of lifting restrictions early.

    So if you were a business with no income under level 5 but do under level 3. Must be possible to workout what xmas cost you.

    Likewise it has extended the lockdown. So if you know per month how much it costing you. You should be able to work out how much extending it costs you.

    It really wasn’t. The surge was caused by the pointless 6 weeks of level 5 in the run up to Christmas.
    If we had stayed at 3.5 for that period, allowing everything bar hospitality to open, there wouldn’t have been such a huge rush for all those services during the 3 week break we got.

    Just because you take away supply, doesn’t mean the demand goes away. It just grows and grows and gets bigger. Is it not better to keep things at an even keel, rather than have cases reduce to tiny quantities and then explode a few weeks later? Level 3.5 was working before the pushed the panic button, they just didn’t give it a chance.
    If we had allowed people to get a haircut, do their Christmas shopping and go to the gym in the 6 weeks before December 1st then there wouldn’t have been huge demand on those businesses come December 1st.

    Instead we were told that our sacrifice would ensure that we could save Christmas, only for them to start finger wagging about lockdown #3 just a few days into December.
    This made people panic and say feck it, I might as well enjoy things while I can cause our freedom will be gone again before we know it.

    It was a perfect storm for a surge, when you think about it. Staying in lockdown to avoid future lockdowns makes no sense either.


  • #2149
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    Vital Transformation wrote: »
    Nightclubs posing as political party headquarters, love it.

    Gyms also posed as Churches as well.

    I DEADLIFT FOR THE LORD!!!


  • #2150
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    There are also new fines for those travelling outside the 5km zone around their home without a valid reason. The fine of €100 will increase to €500 for those who have flagrantly breached the rule.

    That’s the sort of thing that will lower than transmission rate of the disease in hospitals alright.


  • #2151
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,567 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    It really wasn’t. The surge was caused by the pointless 6 weeks of level 5 in the run up to Christmas.
    If we had stayed at 3.5 for that period, allowing everything bar hospitality to open, there wouldn’t have been such a huge rush for all those services during the 3 week break we got.

    Just because you take away supply, doesn’t mean the demand goes away. It just grows and grows and gets bigger. Is it not better to keep things at an even keel, rather than have cases reduce to tiny quantities and then explode a few weeks later? Level 3.5 was working before the pushed the panic button, they just didn’t give it a chance.
    If we had allowed people to get a haircut, do their Christmas shopping and go to the gym in the 6 weeks before December 1st then there wouldn’t have been huge demand on those businesses come December 1st.

    Instead we were told that our sacrifice would ensure that we could save Christmas, only for them to start finger wagging about lockdown #3 just a few days into December.
    This made people panic and say feck it, I might as well enjoy things while I can cause our freedom will be gone again before we know it.

    It was a perfect storm for a surge, when you think about it. Staying in lockdown to avoid future lockdowns makes no sense either.

    Restrictions in October pushed the 2nd wave further on.

    Looking at other European countries who were late to implement restrictions hit Christmas week with a far higher instance rate, huge hospitalizations and deaths have followed, with talks of longer more harsher lockdowns.

    Your claims don't stand up to the data, if we hadn't brought instance rate down in October the reality is we would have had to introduce harsher restrictions for Christmas, which would have just been ignored anyway, with the predictable consequences, we'd also probably have had to shut schools and cancel non covid health earlier.


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  • #2152
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Motor cars or sex didn’t kill 1000 Irish citizens this January ....grow up amaceen....

    Covid19 didn’t kill 1000 Irish citizens this January either.

    Your naivety is astounding. Gullible.


  • #2153
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭Allinall


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    That’s the sort of thing that will lower than transmission rate of the disease in hospitals alright.

    It will certainly help.


  • #2154
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Boggles wrote: »
    Restrictions in October pushed the 2nd wave further on.

    Looking at other European countries who were late to implement restrictions hit Christmas week with a far higher instance rate, huge hospitalizations and deaths have followed, with talks of longer more harsher lockdowns.

    Your claims don't stand up to the data, if we hadn't brought instance rate down in October the reality is we would have had to introduce harsher restrictions for Christmas, which would have just been ignored anyway, with the predictable consequences, we'd also probably have had to shut schools and cancel non covid health earlier.

    MM said himself that we had the longest and harshest lockdowns in all of Europe, and yet we still ended up being worst off in all of Europe for our trouble.
    Your claims don’t stand up to data that we would have ended up in a worse position if we hadn’t had that lockdown.
    We ended up in that position anyway. We’re having a longer, harsher lockdown anyway too, so it made no difference really. We’re no better off for doing it and it certainly didn’t save Christmas.
    Staying in lockdown to avoid future lockdowns isn’t a practical solution either.


  • #2155
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    MM said himself that we had the longest and harshest lockdowns in all of Europe, and yet we still ended up being worst off in all of Europe for our trouble.
    Your claims don’t stand up to data that we would have ended up in a worse position if we hadn’t had that lockdown.
    We ended up in that position anyway. We’re having a longer, harsher lockdown anyway too, so it made no difference really. We’re no better off for doing it and it certainly didn’t save Christmas.
    Staying in lockdown to avoid future lockdowns isn’t a practical solution either.

    That's not because the lockdown didn't work. It's because lifting it didn't work.


  • #2156
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,567 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    MM said himself that we had the longest and harshest lockdowns in all of Europe, and yet we still ended up being worst off in all of Europe for our trouble.
    Your claims don’t stand up to data that we would have ended up in a worse position if we hadn’t had that lockdown.
    We ended up in that position anyway. We’re having a longer, harsher lockdown anyway too, so it made no difference really. We’re no better off for doing it and it certainly didn’t save Christmas.
    Staying in lockdown to avoid future lockdowns isn’t a practical solution either.

    We are by no means the worse off in Europe for hospitalizations and deaths during this second wave.

    If we had hit Christmas week with a higher rate of infection than we did we would be far worse off now, then we are.

    Like I said the claims don't match reality.


  • #2157
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    beauf wrote: »
    That's not because the lockdown didn't work. It's because lifting it didn't work.

    Ah that’s we did wrong we eased restrictions slightly.

    We should never ease restrictions


  • #2158
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Lundstram wrote: »
    Covid19 didn’t kill 1000 Irish citizens this January either.

    Your naivety is astounding. Gullible.

    not far off, 800 ish deaths in January with a few days left.

    i suppose your in the "with not of" camp though which has been thoroughly debunked numerous times now but yet another convenient way to play down this pandemic rather than sucking it up and dealing with it.


  • #2159
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    It really wasn’t. The surge was caused by the pointless 6 weeks of level 5 in the run up to Christmas.
    If we had stayed at 3.5 for that period, allowing everything bar hospitality to open, there wouldn’t have been such a huge rush for all those services during the 3 week break we got.

    Just because you take away supply, doesn’t mean the demand goes away. It just grows and grows and gets bigger. ...

    The opposite happened. They opened up supply and people lost their heads.

    It's contradictory to say lockdown doesn't work then claim a 3.5 lockdown work would have worked.


  • #2160
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Be that as it may. Its certainly not 60% as froog's graphic suggests. More like ~ 8%.


    Exactly, we are in the middle of a pandemic after all you'd expect a rise, the real question is whether the excess would be similar had Sweden imposed lockdown ?
    I wonder what Norways excess deaths % are ?


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  • #2161
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Ah that’s we did wrong we eased restrictions slightly.

    We should never ease restrictions

    Well you're not going to get Xmas rush in February are you. It's was done at the wrong time and mismanaged. Other countries managed to come out of a lockdown properly.

    If you take medicine and it doesn't work. Do you then say all medicine's don't work....


This discussion has been closed.
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