What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

SteM · 25-01-2021 9:59pm

How do they define 'seniors'? I know 2 people that got the 1st dose of the AZ vaccine in the UK over the weekend, one is 71 the other is 70.

25-01-2021 10:01pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

They bought X million from them and are now being informed that only Y are available. Where Y is less than X.

If they had bought 2X million, or were now willing to pay more than the contractually agreed price, how would that have meant AZ would have more than Y now?

They bought x million, but on the basis they may or may not take them and will inform them when they feel like it.

Hardly the basis for a firm contract is it.

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:03pm

bennyl10 wrote: »

EMA to only approve for under 65s, it’s bad for a lot
It’s horrific for the UK

Is it the main one they are using?
100 million doses ordered....

Dressoutlet · 25-01-2021 10:03pm

For anyone that said they didn't have a clue what I was speaking about, or that I was wrong about the EU banning Ireland from buying supplies and yet couldn't, even after I asked, show me the proof of why I was wrong.
The EU are playing politics with our health and its totally unacceptable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1386888/Brexit-news-oxford-vaccine-ireland-micheal-martin-coronavirus-covid19/amp

IRELAND has been BARRED from ordering up doses of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine in an apparent EU bid to pay the UK back for Brexit, a former Irish diplomat has said.
The pioneering vaccine has yet to be given the green light by the EU, despite having been given the thumbs-up in the UK, as efforts are stepped up to vaccinate as many people as possible with the NHS under increasing pressure. However, Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, told Express.co.uk: “Our Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, has just been rebuffed publicly when he suggested that Ireland should bring in some supplies of the AstraZeneca/Oxford COVID vaccine in anticipation of its approval by the European Medicines Agency
“The Irish Government was sharply told by the Commission that this would not be permitted.

“It is hard to see how any democratic Government should allow itself to be overruled by an unelected body like the Commission especially when the health of its citizens is involved in a pandemic.”

The reasons for the EU’s stance are unclear - but given the strained nature of relations between the bloc and the UK in the light of Brexit it seems reasonable to think it may be a factor.

HalfAndHalf · 25-01-2021 10:03pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

Are you missing the part about over 65's? It's still an important part of the armoury.

Nope, I read the whole article, the article exclaiming the it’s only 8% effective in over 65’s......the first anyone’s ever said about it and amazingly missed by the U.K. scientists who are some of the best in the world!

It stinks IMO.

...Ghost... · 25-01-2021 10:03pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

They didn’t find fund the R&D they part funded is all. That’s besides the point unless the publish the contract that stipulates that funding directly allocated them X vaccinations.

Without seeing a breakdown of their R&D spending, we won't know to what extent the EU funded their research, but €336 million is not loose change and would have gone a long way into the R&D for the vaccine.

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

So you believe everything a politician says! Wow, ok then crack on so!

No Boris, I don't. But I do know the EU are usually conservative and cautious when making public statements. The temperature only rises when a clear breach of a contract is threatened, such as when the UK declared their intention to break international law on an agreement signed by the the very PM who planned to break it.

greyday wrote: »

Where did you get the 100 billion euro, that is absolute crap in fairness.

Typo. I meant a billion

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Because the U.K. are getting there’s from the U.K. factories. The U.K. have had delays in Pfizer and BioNtech due to the Belgium factory issues. As I understand it.

Time will tell. My suspicion is the UK are getting theirs from the UK and EU factories. AZ is headquartered in London, so it wouldn't be surprising to learn that the EU doses were redirected to the UK to increase UK supply after delays with other suppliers.

Donald Trump · 25-01-2021 10:03pm

Aegir wrote: »

They bought x million, but on the basis they may or may not take them and will inform them when they feel like it.

Hardly the basis for a firm contract is it.

That's what an option is dude.

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:04pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Ah well sure, what’s all the fuss about then, cancel the contract it doesn’t work........

Completely coincidental timing of course! :-)

Seriously?
You honestly think they would shoot themselves in the foot by doing something so stupid?
It is in the EUs best interest to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible.

If this story is true....the UK has made a balls of it...as usual...

46 Long · 25-01-2021 10:05pm

Danzy wrote: »

There is a bit of By Jingoism creeping in on this thread, yet many of the most ardent supporters of the EU are pointing out that it's response is not acceptable.

I've always been a dyed in the wool EU supporter but it's patently obvious that they have really shít the bed with the vaccine roll-out.

Hurrache · 25-01-2021 10:05pm

Dressoutlet wrote:

For anyone that said they didn't have a clue what I was speaking about, or that I was wrong about the EU banning Ireland from buying supplies and yet couldn't, even after I asked, show me the proof of why I was wrong.
The EU are playing politics with our health and its totally unacceptable.

https://www.google.com...onavirus-covid19/amp

IRELAND has been BARRED from ordering up doses of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine in an apparent EU bid to pay the UK back for Brexit, a former Irish diplomat has said.

Ah FFS, the Express. How naive are you, all their stories are made up ****.

Qwertyminger · 25-01-2021 10:06pm

Reputable paper saying this only has 8% efficacy in over 65s

https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1353797582963748865?s=20

The UK been banging it into arms indiscriminately in absence of good research for months now.

Stupid idiots, wasting it. As a nation they really are just thick.

doublejobbing 2 · 25-01-2021 10:07pm

froog wrote: »

on the radio now - AZ are playing hardball. talk of the UK not having any supply problems.

this won't end well.

Irish anti Brexit pro EU sycophants have looked stupid for 5 years now, but surely have never looked dafter than in the present day. The UK over a month ahead on vaccines, firing ahead with approvals, little old Ireland not daring to think outside the EU box in case it upsets our bosses.

Probably wishful thinking but I'd get the train up to Belfast for an all dayer every Saturday if pubs re open up North before they do here.

Donald Trump · 25-01-2021 10:07pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

For anyone that said they didn't have a clue what I was speaking about, or that I was wrong about the EU banning Ireland from buying supplies and yet couldn't, even after I asked, show me the proof of why I was wrong.
The EU are playing politics with our health and its totally unacceptable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1386888/Brexit-news-oxford-vaccine-ireland-micheal-martin-coronavirus-covid19/amp

IRELAND has been BARRED from ordering up doses of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine in an apparent EU bid to pay the UK back for Brexit, a former Irish diplomat has said.
The pioneering vaccine has yet to be given the green light by the EU, despite having been given the thumbs-up in the UK, as efforts are stepped up to vaccinate as many people as possible with the NHS under increasing pressure. However, Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, told Express.co.uk: “Our Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, has just been rebuffed publicly when he suggested that Ireland should bring in some supplies of the AstraZeneca/Oxford COVID vaccine in anticipation of its approval by the European Medicines Agency
“The Irish Government was sharply told by the Commission that this would not be permitted.

“It is hard to see how any democratic Government should allow itself to be overruled by an unelected body like the Commission especially when the health of its citizens is involved in a pandemic.”

The reasons for the EU’s stance are unclear - but given the strained nature of relations between the bloc and the UK in the light of Brexit it seems reasonable to think it may be a factor.

Ray Basset eh?

Pablo Escobar · 25-01-2021 10:08pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

For anyone that said they didn't have a clue what I was speaking about, or that I was wrong about the EU banning Ireland from buying supplies and yet couldn't, even after I asked, show me the proof of why I was wrong.
The EU are playing politics with our health and its totally unacceptable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1386888/Brexit-news-oxford-vaccine-ireland-micheal-martin-coronavirus-covid19/amp

IRELAND has been BARRED from ordering up doses of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine in an apparent EU bid to pay the UK back for Brexit, a former Irish diplomat has said.
The pioneering vaccine has yet to be given the green light by the EU, despite having been given the thumbs-up in the UK, as efforts are stepped up to vaccinate as many people as possible with the NHS under increasing pressure. However, Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, told Express.co.uk: “Our Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, has just been rebuffed publicly when he suggested that Ireland should bring in some supplies of the AstraZeneca/Oxford COVID vaccine in anticipation of its approval by the European Medicines Agency
“The Irish Government was sharply told by the Commission that this would not be permitted.

“It is hard to see how any democratic Government should allow itself to be overruled by an unelected body like the Commission especially when the health of its citizens is involved in a pandemic.”

The reasons for the EU’s stance are unclear - but given the strained nature of relations between the bloc and the UK in the light of Brexit it seems reasonable to think it may be a factor.

The Express

That’s like posting up a link to Beano.

25-01-2021 10:08pm

Qwertyminger wrote: »

Reputable paper saying this only has 8% efficacy in over 65s

https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1353797582963748865?s=20

The UK been banging it into arms indiscriminately in absence of good research for months now.

Stupid idiots, wasting it. As a nation they really are just thick.

This could have global issues

Afaik this vaccine was to be used in 3rd world countries,as was due to be sold at e5 a pop

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:08pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

For anyone that said they didn't have a clue what I was speaking about, or that I was wrong about the EU banning Ireland from buying supplies and yet couldn't, even after I asked, show me the proof of why I was wrong.
The EU are playing politics with our health and its totally unacceptable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1386888/Brexit-news-oxford-vaccine-ireland-micheal-martin-coronavirus-covid19/amp

IRELAND has been BARRED from ordering up doses of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine in an apparent EU bid to pay the UK back for Brexit, a former Irish diplomat has said.
The pioneering vaccine has yet to be given the green light by the EU, despite having been given the thumbs-up in the UK, as efforts are stepped up to vaccinate as many people as possible with the NHS under increasing pressure. However, Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas, told Express.co.uk: “Our Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, has just been rebuffed publicly when he suggested that Ireland should bring in some supplies of the AstraZeneca/Oxford COVID vaccine in anticipation of its approval by the European Medicines Agency
“The Irish Government was sharply told by the Commission that this would not be permitted.

“It is hard to see how any democratic Government should allow itself to be overruled by an unelected body like the Commission especially when the health of its citizens is involved in a pandemic.”

The reasons for the EU’s stance are unclear - but given the strained nature of relations between the bloc and the UK in the light of Brexit it seems reasonable to think it may be a factor.

The express is a pro brexit pro tory rag.
The EU are correct imo, ireland shouldn't be doing side deals before something is approved.

The source of the quotes....Ray Bassett, Ireland’s former ambassador to Canada, Jamaica and the Bahamas....wow big name one to be trusted with his...finger on the pulse...lol

PCeeeee · 25-01-2021 10:08pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Nope, I read the whole article, the article exclaiming the it’s only 8% effective in over 65’s......the first anyone’s ever said about it and amazingly missed by the U.K. scientists who are some of the best in the world!

It stinks IMO.

But I think the contract will still go ahead i
I'm saying. You believe it'll be cancelled?

Danzy · 25-01-2021 10:10pm

46 Long wrote: »

I've always been a dyed in the wool EU supporter but it's patently obvious that they have really shít the bed with the vaccine roll-out.

1.6% of the EU population done so far.

It's a joke. Hard to imagine that the response could be so poor.

...Ghost... · 25-01-2021 10:10pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

For anyone that said they didn't have a clue what I was speaking about, or that I was wrong about the EU banning Ireland from buying supplies and yet couldn't, even after I asked, show me the proof of why I was wrong.
The EU are playing politics with our health and its totally unacceptable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1386888/Brexit-news-oxford-vaccine-ireland-micheal-martin-coronavirus-covid19/amp

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
You may as well be getting your news from the village idiot. Publication aside, look at the other "stories" written by that journalist.

Dressoutlet · 25-01-2021 10:10pm

Aegir wrote: »

They bought x million, but on the basis they may or may not take them and will inform them when they feel like it.

Hardly the basis for a firm contract is it.

Yes to this!

If someone gave me 10euro to make a garden planter. I made it and its ready yet they don't know when they want to collect it, or if they even want to collect it. Do I keep it there in the hopes the buyer takes it eventually, or do I sell it on and make another for the original buyer when he decides he wants it. Tbh, id give the original buyer his money back because nobody wants to be messed around.

Dressoutlet · 25-01-2021 10:11pm

...Ghost... wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
You may as well be getting your news from the village idiot. Publication aside, look at the other "stories" written by that journalist.

That was the first article on Google, there's many more. It was on the radio the other day
You are free to use the Google machine yourself and see

fly_agaric · 25-01-2021 10:11pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Ah FFS, the Express. How naive are you, all their stories are made up ****.

was expecting Oirish eh Irish Freedom Party press release or whatnot.

Dressoutlet · 25-01-2021 10:13pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

was expecting Oirish eh Irish Freedom Party press release or whatnot.

Ffs, look yourself at the other publications.

HalfAndHalf · 25-01-2021 10:13pm

...Ghost... wrote: »

Without seeing a breakdown of their R&D spending, we won't know to what extent the EU funded their research, but €336 million is not loose change and would have gone a long way into the R&D for the vaccine.

No Boris, I don't. But I do know the EU are usually conservative and cautious when making public statements. The temperature only rises when a clear breach of a contract is threatened, such as when the UK declared their intention to break international law on an agreement signed by the the very PM who planned to break it.

Typo. I meant a billion

Time will tell. My suspicion is the UK are getting theirs from the UK and EU factories. AZ is headquartered in London, so it wouldn't be surprising to learn that the EU doses were redirected to the UK to increase UK supply after delays with other suppliers.

Sorry but you’ve lost me at correcting my typo of two letters. EDT to each other than having to correct your own typo of completely different words!

The EU are not usually conservative what a load of rubbish!

Then there your comments based on suspicion!! So made up then!

And don’t call me Boris please, just because we have a difference of opinion there’s no need to be an idiot is there!

Danzy · 25-01-2021 10:14pm

Given the slow pace of approval from the EMA, did Astra Zeneca sell what it had to those who wanted it and would take it and then got short because of supply disruptions when the EU came looking.

...Ghost... · 25-01-2021 10:15pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

That was the first article on Google, there's many more. It was on the radio the other day
You are free to use the Google machine yourself and see

You're the one making the assertion, so back it up with legitimate, credible sources. Asking others to do the looking for you is not how it works.

Anecdotally I heard on the radio 2 weeks ago that we are free to make our own vaccine deals if we so choose.

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:15pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

But I think the contract will still go ahead i
I'm saying. You believe it'll be cancelled?

It will still go ahead I would say they will just use that vaccine for those under 65 if it's true.

Luckily the EU has bought lots of other vaccines....the UK hasn't as far as I can see? 100 million astrazeneca...

HalfAndHalf · 25-01-2021 10:15pm

Danzy wrote: »

Given the slow pace of approval from the EMA, did Astra Zeneca sell what it had to those who wanted it and would take it and then got short because of supply disruptions when the EU came looking.

The EU aren’t looking though, they’ve still got another 4 days before they even say whether they approve its use! And now the German press are slagging it off.

Danzy · 25-01-2021 10:16pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

was expecting Oirish eh Irish Freedom Party press release or whatnot.

Your email subscriptions aside, it is in more than the Express.

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:18pm

...Ghost... wrote: »

You're the one making the assertion, so back it up with legitimate, credible sources. Asking others to do the looking for you is not how it works.

Anecdotally I heard on the radio 2 weeks ago that we are free to make our own vaccine deals if we so choose.

We aren't I think...Germany got a rap on the knuckles for doing side deals
https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-coronavirus-vaccine-side-deal-at-odds-with-legally-binding-eu-pact/

HalfAndHalf · 25-01-2021 10:19pm

gmisk wrote: »

It will still go ahead I would say they will just use that vaccine for those under 65 if it's true.

Luckily the EU has bought lots of other vaccines....the UK hasn't as far as I can see? 100 million astrazeneca...

And 40 million Pfizer. Enough for the country.

EU have a ordered 2.4 billion, enough for 2.5 times the EU population.....be a bit of a shame if they waste 1.6 billion doses poorer countries could have saved lives with.

PCeeeee · 25-01-2021 10:19pm

gmisk wrote: »

It will still go ahead I would say they will just use that vaccine for those under 65 if it's true.

Luckily the EU has bought lots of other vaccines....the UK hasn't as far as I can see? 100 million astrazeneca...

I agree too. The other poster seemed to think it would be cancelled as part of some EU v UK political carry on.

25-01-2021 10:19pm

https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1353797582963748865?s=19

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:20pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

I agree too. The other poster seemed to think it would be cancelled as part of some EU v UK political carry on.

The EU wouldn't be that short sighted, they aren't as petty as the UK....

daheff · 25-01-2021 10:21pm

Danzy wrote: »

Given the slow pace of approval from the EMA, did Astra Zeneca sell what it had to those who wanted it and would take it and then got short because of supply disruptions when the EU came looking.

Depending on the contract, approval may not be relevant.

If AZ agreed to deliver X number of doses by a certain time, then they are legally bound to do so.

It may be that AZ decided they don't have enough doses to fulfill all their contracts, so decided EU would be the easiest one to fail to deliver in terms of penalties for breach of contract.

This may actually be a result of poor negotiations by the EU.

Beasty · 25-01-2021 10:21pm

Danzy wrote: »

Given the slow pace of approval from the EMA, did Astra Zeneca sell what it had to those who wanted it and would take it and then got short because of supply disruptions when the EU came looking.

AZ didn't make it's submission to the EU until after the UK had approved it. My suspicion would be they were under some influence to get the UK rollout moving quickly

HalfAndHalf · 25-01-2021 10:21pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

I agree too. The other poster seemed to think it would be cancelled as part of some EU v UK political carry on.

If you’re referring to my post then perhaps read it again.....Twas sarcasm!

Donald Trump · 25-01-2021 10:23pm

Dressoutlet wrote: »

Yes to this!

If someone gave me 10euro to make a garden planter. I made it and its ready yet they don't know when they want to collect it, or if they even want to collect it. Do I keep it there in the hopes the buyer takes it eventually, or do I sell it on and make another for the original buyer when he decides he wants it. Tbh, id give the original buyer his money back because nobody wants to be messed around.

It's a standard form of contract. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Option_contract .

Although possibly not used as much in the garden planter business as it might be in multi-million or multi-billion agreements.

PCeeeee · 25-01-2021 10:24pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

If you’re referring to my post then perhaps read it again.....Twas sarcasm!

Apologies if so. I'm finding it hard to tell what point you're making apart from the overwhelming impression you don't like the EU much.

mean gene · 25-01-2021 10:26pm

uk will look like right t1ts if the 8 per cent efficency thing is true

HalfAndHalf · 25-01-2021 10:26pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

Apologies if so. I'm finding it hard to tell what point you're making apart from the overwhelming impression you don't like the EU much.

Ah so it was a tee up to a dig! Nice one!

So because I’ve got criticisms of how some of this has been handled by the EU you don’t know what point I’m making.

I’ve not used long complicated words so it’s difficult to understand how you’re confused, but then if you don’t get sarcasm then not much more I can do. Good luck.

L1011 · 25-01-2021 10:27pm

Danzy wrote: »

Your email subscriptions aside, it is in more than the Express.

Doesn't stop it being Ray Bassett, though.

noodler · 25-01-2021 10:29pm

Do people criticising the EU feel the independence of the EMA should be undermined to force faster approvals or what?

It's difficult to see any other option that might have sped this up.

...Ghost... · 25-01-2021 10:29pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Sorry but you’ve lost me at correcting my typo of two letters. EDT to each other than having to correct your own typo of completely different words!

finding the research and funding the research are different, correct? I think it's only proper to correct typos wherever possible.

The EU are not usually conservative what a load of rubbish!

Riiight. Good counter-argument.

Then there your comments based on suspicion!! So made up then!

Not quite. Let me help you out.

Suspicion (noun)
"a feeling or thought that something is possible, likely, or true"

And don’t call me Boris please, just because we have a difference of opinion there’s no need to be an idiot is there!

If you can't handle it, don't dish it out.

You quite rudely suggested (incorrectly) that I believed everything a politician says. That was an attack on my intelligence and was deserving of a response. On the contrary, I have very little trust for politicians, but there are cultures and patterns that can be expected from politicians based in different countries. The Brits are full of bravado and the EU are tight lipped and far more composed.

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:32pm

L1011 wrote: »

Doesn't stop it being Ray Bassett, though.

Utter clown.
https://brexitcentral.com/author/ray-bassett/

blackcard · 25-01-2021 10:34pm

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Nope, I read the whole article, the article exclaiming the it’s only 8% effective in over 65’s......the first anyone’s ever said about it and amazingly missed by the U.K. scientists who are some of the best in the world!

It stinks IMO.

What countries have approved AZ to date apart from the UK?

gmisk · 25-01-2021 10:35pm

noodler wrote: »

Do people criticising the EU feel the independence of the EMA should be undermined to force faster approvals or what?

It's difficult to see any other option that might have sped this up.

I think people should think...would they trust the EMA...or the UK equivalent under heavy pressure from a Tory government (who would love a British developed vaccine...)to make an honest and measured decision on the efficacy of a vaccine?