Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

Icyseanfitz · 21-01-2021 09:27PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

An opposition spokesperson becoming a Minister lol

I'd walk to Mars quicker

Unfortunately we can only dream of it

Smacruairi · 21-01-2021 09:30PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

An opposition spokesperson becoming a Minister lol

I'd walk to Mars quicker

Yup, that's the level I'm at here. And I even swore never to vote Labour again after 2010!

khalessi · 21-01-2021 09:37PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yup, that's the level I'm at here. And I even swore never to vote Labour again after 2010!

Dont trust any of em as they are all great in opposition but this is the closest to what has happened I have seen talk about

BonsaiKitten · 21-01-2021 09:37PM

I really enjoy how one small question has brought out a seething hatred of in-service in us all, btw. Nice change of pace for the thread.

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Bunch of us left one year, they were using a meta-analysis they had clearly never read in a powerpoint they clearly hadn't made. I had read the paper so I asked a bunch of relatively basic questions about why they were drawing conclusions the author had cautioned against drawing. It was great craic, they then got very hot and bothered, became very defensive and were unbelievable rude and dismissive to another member of staff.....so we left! I'd actually question if you are available for work in the building and doing any useful work you'd have a good shot at it being impossible to actually do anything to you.

Some of the subject specific ones can be very good, depends on the subject and the person but you get the odd really brilliant one. I can think of one series that was so practical and routed in teaching that in an hour at it than I learned in a decade of other "active leaning" inservices

Running them at the moment is sheer madness though, the kids would still need emails answered about work, passwords reset etc

I walked out of a Seesaw one this year. I don't think I'm incredibly techy but I can figure out my own damn way around an app. I don't need to sit for two hours while the tech illiterate are handheld through every step by an only slightly less inept facilitator. Especially when the answer to every question was "oh I don't know actually, I must look that up". I have a classroom to set up, set me free!

Went off, learned the ropes in 10 minutes and spent the rest drinking coffee and doing something useful. Don't regret a moment of it.

mirrorwall14 · 21-01-2021 09:38PM

Honestly, junior cycle inservice training is one of the best examples of how absolutely set in its ways the higher echelons of education in ireland are. I can totally see why they did absolutely nothing in the blind faith that schools would never close again.

Anyone here have to sit through ludicrous inservice training days when there was no subject specifications yet for the later subjects? The first subjects were getting proper training in their subject and rather than let the school be open for the teachers and subjects who didn’t need to be at it yet, rather than let us do work in the schools ourselves (there is ALWAYS admin that there is no time for), no.... They literally made up inservice for us rather than admit it wasn’t necessary

And then to make matters worse.... my subject Music had a draft published the week before. I was sitting at a table with multiple music teachers but we were not allowed to discuss it because it wasn’t on the agenda for the day. So I had to sit through a whole day of walking debates and post it’s and absolute rubbish and miss my double sixth years when I could have had a really productive day with other music teachers figuring out what our spec was going to be

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 21-01-2021 09:44PM

I presume the PTSD crowd know its a load of cobblers but play the game to sit on the gravy train?

Like they hardly believe in it

History Queen · 21-01-2021 09:47PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Honestly, junior cycle inservice training is one of the best examples of how absolutely set in its ways the higher echelons of education in ireland are. I can totally see why they did absolutely nothing in the blind faith that schools would never close again.

Anyone here have to sit through ludicrous inservice training days when there was no subject specifications yet for the later subjects? The first subjects were getting proper training in their subject and rather than let the school be open for the teachers and subjects who didn’t need to be at it yet, rather than let us do work in the schools ourselves (there is ALWAYS admin that there is no time for), no.... They literally made up inservice for us rather than admit it wasn’t necessary

And then to make matters worse.... my subject Music had a draft published the week before. I was sitting at a table with multiple music teachers but we were not allowed to discuss it because it wasn’t on the agenda for the day. So I had to sit through a whole day of walking debates and post it’s and absolute rubbish and miss my double sixth years when I could have had a really productive day with other music teachers figuring out what our spec was going to be

I've asked at union meetings to request a figure for how many teaching hours have been wasted on JCT inservice. Also the earlier subject ones weren't any better, the first three I went to for English comprised of hearing how many ways a presenter could say "we don't know".

alroley · 21-01-2021 09:51PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

What are peoples opinions on schools taking days off for inservice etc?

3 local schools off next friday, just think its slightly cheeky.

I have mine next week too. Would choose teaching every single time over training days.

mirrorwall14 · 21-01-2021 09:58PM

Actually since the parents are on this thread I’d like to let them know if they don’t already about the difference between a specification and a a syllabus which is the brainchild of the new junior cycle.

Every teacher is expected to unpack the learning in the specification themselves. In other words, there’s very little clarity at times as to whether something is ‘examinable’ or not.

When queried on this they appear to think this is a wonderful idea because we will all teach it differently and different content. At one of my inservices for music they gleefully explained how one school in a locality could specialise in classical music and teach all the content using that and another could use pop music.... when our jaws hit the floor we were assured this is all wonderful even if all students don’t actually learn the same thing

When I raised my fear that maybe I wouldn’t teach something to the level needed for the final exam I got a shoulder shrug and a ‘you’ll be fine’.... I am terrified I will teach something wrong or to an insufficient level as are most teachers I know. And they do not care that we are nervous, or that students are worried or that parents will blame us if we interpret wrong... instead we get told that we might teach to the exam if they give more detail

If you know anything about music here’s an indicator of just how VAGUE those learning outcomes are:

1.5 read, interpret and play from symbolic representations of sounds

The music specification literally does not mention that you need to read the treble clef, the bass clef or what clefs should be taught. What kind of a course outline is missing these details? Well the junior cycle. Because all of us interpreting it ourselves is apparently a good use of our time.

I will acknowledge that there has been some clarity since from the State Exams Commission thankfully

But the whole specification lark is absolutely outrageous in my opinion

Smacruairi · 21-01-2021 10:00PM

History Queen wrote: »

I've asked at union meetings to request a figure for how many teaching hours have been wasted on JCT inservice. Also the earlier subject ones weren't any better, the first three I went to for English comprised of hearing how many ways a presenter could say "we don't know".

At the English one. "the literature is a seed from which the skills of communication grow". That sounds good,think thats fair. So I ask the question, "so why is there a necessity to examine the literature so heavily on the exam". She replies, "there is not". I point to the sample paper just published which asked students to use the soliloquays of a chosen Shakespearean drama to explain character traits...we then went back to dotmocracy

am_zarathustra · 21-01-2021 10:03PM

alroley wrote: »

I have mine next week too. Would choose teaching every single time over training days.

God I'm sorry, there's a lot to be said for muting them and just continuing to help and support your student students who need it. We've so many sort of hanging on at the end of classes for a chat, to tell you it's their birthday or whatever, these are sexondary kids but they are so out of place at the moment. A full day of JCT nosense would be much better spent just having a chat with these kids and asking about whatever their dog did and encouraging them to try the online work, and getting the laptops and food packages and books out to them that are needed.

For non teachers on this thread, this is what the department is. In the middle of a lockdown in a global pandemic they are going to try and make all members of a teaching staff unavailable to their students (many of whom are extra vulnerable) so they can fill virtual post it's out about skills based teaching or digital natives or 21st century learning or whatever the new buzzword is.

No one in the department cares about students

wirelessdude01 · 21-01-2021 10:05PM

Primary Language Curriculum inservice days were also woeful for us primary teachers. We picked so many holes in the final draft that entire sections of it had to be binned and it sort of reimagined. It is useless and adds huge amounts of paperwork.

khalessi · 21-01-2021 10:07PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Primary Language Curriculum I service days were also woeful for us primary teachers. We picked so many holes in the final draft that entire sections of it had to be binned and it sort of reimagined. It is useless and adds huge amounts of paperwork.

Awful that and the team teaching days:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Mrsmum · 21-01-2021 10:11PM

Teachers, geez that inservice and specification stuff sounds dire.

wirelessdude01 · 21-01-2021 10:12PM

khalessi wrote: »

Awful that and the team teaching days:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Must have somehow missed those team teaching days!!!

History Queen · 21-01-2021 10:14PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

At the English one. "the literature is a seed from which the skills of communication grow". That sounds good,think thats fair. So I ask the question, "so why is there a necessity to examine the literature so heavily on the exam". She replies, "there is not". I point to the sample paper just published which asked students to use the soliloquays of a chosen Shakespearean drama to explain character traits...we then went back to dotmocracy

They usually ignore me after 10 minutes. Suits me fine.

History Queen · 21-01-2021 10:15PM

Teachers at a JCT day...

History Queen · 21-01-2021 10:17PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Primary Language Curriculum inservice days were also woeful for us primary teachers. We picked so many holes in the final draft that entire sections of it had to be binned and it sort of reimagined. It is useless and adds huge amounts of paperwork.

Wait...they LISTENED to ye?!

km79 · 21-01-2021 10:19PM

History Queen wrote: »

Teachers at a JCT day...

I was sitting beside him
But I went for a “ghost walk “

History Queen · 21-01-2021 10:21PM

km79 wrote: »

I was sitting beside him
But I went for a “ghost walk “

Hahahaha! Brilliant!

lulublue22 · 21-01-2021 10:23PM

History Queen wrote: »

Wait...they LISTENED to ye?!

I don’t think they had a choice - it was genuinely dire - a step beyond the usual WTF to be fair.

ETA - 2nd version wasn’t great but at least it was somewhat readable.

wirelessdude01 · 21-01-2021 10:24PM

History Queen wrote: »

Wait...they LISTENED to ye?!

Well the lady who did the initial day with us and another school left at lunchtime and never came back, such was the level of questioning that she faced. Every single gle thing she said we took apart. Pretty much every question we asked she was unable to answer. Similar to the scenarios described by my secondary colleagues above.

Guessing something similar was replicated across-the-board.

KatW4 · 21-01-2021 10:29PM

wirelessdude01 wrote:

Primary Language Curriculum inservice days were also woeful for us primary teachers. We picked so many holes in the final draft that entire sections of it had to be binned and it sort of reimagined. It is useless and adds huge amounts of paperwork.

I was more confused about the PLC after the inservice than I was before it. An absolute waste of a day. We worked it out ourselves in school!

wirelessdude01 · 21-01-2021 10:29PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

I don’t think they had a choice - it was genuinely dire - a step beyond the usual WTF to be fair.

ETA - 2nd version wasn’t great but at least it was somewhat readable.

Less cumbersome would be the way I'd describe it. Still rubbish though.

History Queen · 21-01-2021 10:30PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well the lady who did the initial day with us and another school left at lunchtime and never came back, such was the level of questioning that she faced. Every single gle thing she said we took apart. Pretty much every question we asked she was unable to answer. Similar to the scenarios described by my secondary colleagues above.

Guessing something similar was replicated across-the-board.

JCT weren't for turning...and it wasn't for the lack of trying on our behalf.

am_zarathustra · 21-01-2021 10:33PM

History Queen wrote: »

Wait...they LISTENED to ye?!

Definitely unique to primary.....we said obvious things "like Maths requires repititiom for proficiency" and "students need actual definitions so we have a common understanding with the scientific community" or, my favourite "critical thinking required you learning information that you can critically think about". We were wrong about all of this apparently and actually the problem with teenagers is that they don't think their opinions are important enough ............the new science paper is a literacy test with a bit of cspe

mirrorwall14 · 21-01-2021 10:38PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Definitely unique to primary.....we said obvious things "like Maths requires repititiom for proficiency" and "students need actual definitions so we have a common understanding with the scientific community" or, my favourite "critical thinking required you learning information that you can critically think about". We were wrong about all of this apparently and actually the problem with teenagers is that they don't think their opinions are important enough ............the new science paper is a literacy test with a bit of cspe

It’s genuinely madness. I mean it’s lovely to have a new specification in music because the old one really wasn’t well structured. The change to the practical are welcomed. However I hate the lack of clarity on whether my interpretation of what’s necessary is appropriate. There was a term on the music sample paper I have never seen before

lulublue22 · 21-01-2021 10:43PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Less cumbersome would be the way I'd describe it. Still rubbish though.

I think it went from how do I use 40 words for this word to ok lads 40’s a bit much lets make it 20 words where 1 would do. Concise and to the point it aint.

Murple · 21-01-2021 10:43PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

LoL - every table after the unlucky feckers who go first steals that line. Even though there's always one eager beaver table TG. I need copious amounts of coffee to cope.

We always start the day warning each other not to ask questions...but someone always does!

Bananaleaf · 21-01-2021 10:53PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

A part of me dies when I see an A3 page, post-it's and highlighters

Must print a t-shirt "I think all the other tables covered what we discussed"

I don't know you. But I like you.

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01