Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 21-01-2021 01:04AM

tails_naf wrote: »

The problem is many teachers are doing eff all.

Oh, here we go again

History Queen · 21-01-2021 01:06AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Tks folks. That sounds reasonable.

Just to reiterate if you have doubts or even just questions about a school's approach don't be afraid to ask them. We thought we were doing great work in the first lockdown working to timetable only to discover we had lots of students and parents stressed to the nines because they weren't setup for what we were doing. It took a week or so before enough feedback filtered through for us to cop the issue.

Ray Donovan · 21-01-2021 01:16AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Happened to glance at myself in the mirror today as I was heading out for a walk after I shut off the laptop for the evening. Dear God the black circles under my eyes are shocking. Any other teachers noticing the same?

Must be because of all the seamless transitioning.

wirelessdude01 · 21-01-2021 01:16AM

History Queen wrote: »

Just to reiterate if you have doubts or even just questions about a school's approach don't be afraid to ask them. We thought we were doing great work in the first lockdown working to timetable only to discover we had lots of students and parents stressed to the nines because they weren't setup for what we were doing. It took a week or so before enough feedback filtered through for us to cop the issue.

My Mrs got a number of emails from parents today essentially telling her that she needed to ease off on what she expects. Same occurred to other teachers in her school. Seems the WhatsApp groups must have been buzzing over the weekend and yesterday with discussion. Principal has told the parents that the teachers are to continue as they are as the curriculum needs to be covered.

mirrorwall14 · 21-01-2021 01:18AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Quick question - in my sons' school, only the maths teacher has a live class for the full hour. All other teachers are live for max twenty minutes. Would that be fairly standard ? Just curious really. Obviously secondary school.
Edit should have said, not all classes are live but when they are live it's short.

I’m maths. I was asynchronous the last time as had no childcare. My students were happy and our school surveys showed they didn’t want wall to walk live classes, just the odd check in and access to me for support. They did have this, I gave myself tennis elbow replying on the phone chasing the toddler

This time I’m lucky enough to have an amazing childminder. I’m very high risk and working from home so my maths classes have had a lot of disruption this year with no qualified subs to be found and terrible internet in school. I told them I’d go full live for the first week and see how it went. 2nd years have no homework, everything done in the 40 mins. 5th years do have some homework but they are HL and we wouldn’t finish otherwise. Universal feedback from those able to attend is that it’s working. It’s a ton of work because I’m still trying to record for those who can’t attend and frankly I wouldn’t be able to sustain it if I had a full class load of maths. But for now, it’s working for the students and that’s what matters. I’ve felt guilty enough for having to be out this year, I’m happy to kill myself to support them now. If they are burnt out at the end of this week I’ll adjust

tails_naf · 21-01-2021 01:18AM

dirkmeister wrote: »

With respect, I’d love to know where you are getting your figure of “many” from. That just sounds like teacher bashing and makes people less likely to engage. The vast majority of teachers I know are flat out teaching during the day.

That being said, my nieces’ school are taking the absolute p!ss. Work is emailed on Sunday for the week with no other interaction. Infuriating. I couldn’t stand over that if I worked there.

You mention inconsistency, take that up with the Department who have been beating the “autonomy” drum when it came to issuing guidelines. That’s part of the reason why we are in this mess.

I agree fully it's primarily the departments guidelines and lack of direction that's at fault. As it happens my sister did raise her concerns with what's going on in her kids school (similar to your nice) but nothing has changed. It's a shame. Online learning is possible and could be better and more consistent, that's my main point.

mirrorwall14 · 21-01-2021 01:20AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Happened to glance at myself in the mirror today as I was heading out for a walk after I shut off the laptop for the evening. Dear God the black circles under my eyes are shocking. Any other teachers noticing the same?

I’m struggling to switch off and get my mind to sleep with the screen all day and much of my usual relaxation, flicking on the radio or having a scroll of social media is just an absolute mess of teacher bashing which is super disheartening. Trying to read myself to sleep with my kindle. Which as you can see is clearly working since I never picked it up.....

History Queen · 21-01-2021 01:22AM

tails_naf wrote: »

I agree fully it's primarily the departments guidelines and lack of direction that's at fault. As it happens my sister did raise her concerns with what's going on in her kids school (similar to your nice) but nothing has changed. It's a shame. Online learning is possible and could be better and more consistent, that's my main point.

While that's a very fair point it isn't what you started here with. "Cop out" were the words you used when I pointed out some of the reasons why full days of live lessons wouldn't work. We all (or at least most of us) want what is best for our students, as do parents, why not work together instead of nitpicking and sowing seeds of division?

Mrsmum · 21-01-2021 01:39AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m maths. I was asynchronous the last time as had no childcare. My students were happy and our school surveys showed they didn’t want wall to walk live classes, just the odd check in and access to me for support. They did have this, I gave myself tennis elbow replying on the phone chasing the toddler

This time I’m lucky enough to have an amazing childminder. I’m very high risk and working from home so my maths classes have had a lot of disruption this year with no qualified subs to be found and terrible internet in school. I told them I’d go full live for the first week and see how it went. 2nd years have no homework, everything done in the 40 mins. 5th years do have some homework but they are HL and we wouldn’t finish otherwise. Universal feedback from those able to attend is that it’s working. It’s a ton of work because I’m still trying to record for those who can’t attend and frankly I wouldn’t be able to sustain it if I had a full class load of maths. But for now, it’s working for the students and that’s what matters. I’ve felt guilty enough for having to be out this year, I’m happy to kill myself to support them now. If they are burnt out at the end of this week I’ll adjust

Tks for that. Imo, the live classes this time round , not the length of them but the fact they are happening, is really important. Last time without that connection, one of my boys, the wayward one (!)completely tuned out but this time he is engaging very well.
And tks for teaching me a new word - asynchronous - I'll be impressing all round me tomorrow !!.

khalessi · 21-01-2021 01:40AM

Interesting read

Worth a read considering Norma was using the letter of 5th January as her evidence to reopen special schools, the same letter she tried to use to get LC back in school and was lambasted for.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factfind-nphet-ireland-advice-school-closures-january-2021-5330454-Jan2021/?utm_source=shortlink

Factfind: What advice did NPHET give to Government around the closure of schools?

n summary, Dr Holohan told the government that mobility associated with a full return to schools was the primary factor behind its recommendation not to do so.

The CMO also made references to the fact that the R number and general levels of community transmission could be reduced if this happened, although he suggested that this may not primarily be linked to school closures.

Despite stressing that classrooms were safe, he did highlight the possibility that keeping schools open could lead to higher levels of the new UK variant of Covid-19 among under 20s.

He further suggested that closing schools might eliminate the possibility for the virus to spread in them, a logical conclusion, given that closing schools would mean nobody could enter classrooms to pass the virus on to each other.

When he outlined NPHET’s position on whether to keep schools open at the conclusion of his letter, he did not restate the factors he had outlined earlier in his text, suggesting that other steps may be taken to address the wider spread of Covid-19.

“NPHET will meet as usual this Thursday 7 January and will give consideration to any further measures which may be required to address the current levels of community transmission and its consequences,” he said.

“As always, I would be happy to discuss further, should you wish.”

Leftwaffe · 21-01-2021 01:58AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Quick question - in my sons' school, only the maths teacher has a live class for the full hour. All other teachers are live for max twenty minutes. Would that be fairly standard ? Just curious really. Obviously secondary school.
Edit should have said, not all classes are live but when they are live it's short.

Secondary here. I do about 30-35 mins live. In remaining 20/25, students will complete the longer activity which has to be handed in before the end of the period. During the 20/25 off I can correcting assignments, giving feedback, and helping individual students through voice messages or calls. I think the hour is too long live for them, kids in front of screens all day. At least they get the book for a good chunk of the class.

mirrorwall14 · 21-01-2021 07:10AM

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Secondary here. I do about 30-35 mins live. In remaining 20/25, students will complete the longer activity which has to be handed in before the end of the period. During the 20/25 off I can correcting assignments, giving feedback, and helping individual students through voice messages or calls. I think the hour is too long live for them, kids in front of screens all day. At least they get the book for a good chunk of the class.

Actually that’s a good point I should have said, it’s not me lecturing for 40 minutes. I demo they practise, same as in school

21-01-2021 09:01AM

khalessi wrote: »

Interesting read

Worth a read considering Norma was using the letter of 5th January as her evidence to reopen special schools, the same letter she tried to use to get LC back in school and was lambasted for.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factfind-nphet-ireland-advice-school-closures-january-2021-5330454-Jan2021/?utm_source=shortlink

Factfind: What advice did NPHET give to Government around the closure of schools?

n summary, Dr Holohan told the government that mobility associated with a full return to schools was the primary factor behind its recommendation not to do so.

The CMO also made references to the fact that the R number and general levels of community transmission could be reduced if this happened, although he suggested that this may not primarily be linked to school closures.

Despite stressing that classrooms were safe, he did highlight the possibility that keeping schools open could lead to higher levels of the new UK variant of Covid-19 among under 20s.

He further suggested that closing schools might eliminate the possibility for the virus to spread in them, a logical conclusion, given that closing schools would mean nobody could enter classrooms to pass the virus on to each other.

When he outlined NPHET’s position on whether to keep schools open at the conclusion of his letter, he did not restate the factors he had outlined earlier in his text, suggesting that other steps may be taken to address the wider spread of Covid-19.

“NPHET will meet as usual this Thursday 7 January and will give consideration to any further measures which may be required to address the current levels of community transmission and its consequences,” he said.

“As always, I would be happy to discuss further, should you wish.”

The recommendation was:

Dr Holohan told the government that mobility associated with a full return to schools was the primary factor behind its recommendation not to do so

Notice he said Full. Suggesting partial could at least be considered. Which is all that was asked, both in thew case of LC and Special Needs classes

dirkmeister · 21-01-2021 09:12AM

What bugs me about Tony Holohan, Ronan Glynn and NPHET is the difference in how they speak about things.

When it’s regarding pubs...nope, pubs should definitely not be open

House visits...no, you should not be visiting other households

Working from home...stay at home unless absolutely essential

Schools...let’s speak in absolute riddles and leave people draw their own conclusion, depending on what their own prior opinion is.

People need to be told things in simple language, they aren’t getting that guidance when it comes to schools.

If they can’t give a straight answer, then they just sound like politicians.

DSN · 21-01-2021 09:19AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m struggling to switch off and get my mind to sleep with the screen all day and much of my usual relaxation, flicking on the radio or having a scroll of social media is just an absolute mess of teacher bashing which is super disheartening. Trying to read myself to sleep with my kindle. Which as you can see is clearly working since I never picked it up.....

We are all like hamsters on a wheel these days trying to catch up on own work til late in the night its exhausting! As I said to other half this morn it's like groundhog day.

wirelessdude01 · 21-01-2021 09:28AM

DSN wrote: »

We are all like hamsters on a wheel these days trying to catch up on own work til late in the night its exhausting! As I said to other half this morn it's like groundhog day.

Hamster analogy is perfect description.

All my kids hadn't submitted all their stuff when I turned off the laptop at about 8pm last night. I'd managed to clear everything up to that point.

Turned it on at 7:52am and I've 36 new pieces of work since.

the kelt · 21-01-2021 09:32AM

dirkmeister wrote: »

What bugs me about Tony Holohan, Ronan Glynn and NPHET is the difference in how they speak about things.

When it’s regarding pubs...nope, pubs should definitely not be open

House visits...no, you should not be visiting other households

Working from home...stay at home unless absolutely essential

Schools...let’s speak in absolute riddles and leave people draw their own conclusion, depending on what their own prior opinion is.

People need to be told things in simple language, they aren’t getting that guidance when it comes to schools.

If they can’t give a straight answer, then they just sound like politicians.

But why should they give Norma someone else to blame?

For example what was said

Dr Holohan told the government that mobility associated with a full return to schools was the primary factor behind its recommendation not to do so.

Concluding his letter, he also noted that specific measures should be taken “to ensure that more vulnerable children can best be supported” in the coming weeks, but he did not specify what form of support should be provided.

Norma decided that meant open up the schools, why? Because in the last year the DOE have done zero in regards to having any other alternative, nothing!

To deflect from this Norma and her ilk play games with real issues to ensure the fact they have done nothing is hidden and doesn’t become the nub of the issue.

Quick question for teachers etc on here, would it have been possible for kids with a real need for one to one assistance to receive even an hour or two a day in the home even a few days a week with the remainder done online. For example my neighbour did not want to send their kid who has special needs back to school because well ye know “once in a lifetime virus” doing the rounds and made a point that without the other students the school for his daughter was just another building. He was more than happy with online but that was being taken away by Norma today if she had her way because teachers had to go back and that was that, does that child and the concerns of her parents count or just those who want their kids in school and that’s that.

Just thinking outside the box, something Norma and her ilk seem incapable of.

km79 · 21-01-2021 09:41AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Happened to glance at myself in the mirror today as I was heading out for a walk after I shut off the laptop for the evening. Dear God the black circles under my eyes are shocking. Any other teachers noticing the same?

YES
My wife commented on it last night

BonsaiKitten · 21-01-2021 09:42AM

the kelt wrote: »

But why should they give Norma someone else to blame?

For example what was said

Dr Holohan told the government that mobility associated with a full return to schools was the primary factor behind its recommendation not to do so.

Concluding his letter, he also noted that specific measures should be taken “to ensure that more vulnerable children can best be supported” in the coming weeks, but he did not specify what form of support should be provided.

Norma decided that meant open up the schools, why? Because in the last year the DOE have done zero in regards to having any other alternative, nothing!

To deflect from this Norma and her ilk play games with real issues to ensure the fact they have done nothing is hidden and doesn’t become the nub of the issue.

Quick question for teachers etc on here, would it have been possible for kids with a real need for one to one assistance to receive even an hour or two a day in the home even a few days a week with the remainder done online

Just thinking outside the box, something Norma and her ilk seem incapable of.

Again though if you give assistance in the home for that long, you'll have to drop other kids with additional needs from the caseload. That's just thinking about it from a mainstream perspective. I think people believe kids with high levels of need get a lot more help than they do in reality, the staff numbers just aren't there.

the kelt · 21-01-2021 09:48AM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Again though if you give assistance in the home for that long, you'll have to drop other kids with additional needs from the caseload. That's just thinking about it from a mainstream perspective. I think people believe kids with high levels of need get a lot more help than they do in reality, the staff numbers just aren't there.

Thanks, just thinking outside the box, would it be possible I wonder outside of mainstream?

It’s another point you make though under herr normas plan a lot of other kids in mainstream were going to miss out because all the ficus would only be on those in the school but in reality she couldn’t care less.

khalessi · 21-01-2021 09:59AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The recommendation was:

Notice he said Full. Suggesting partial could at least be considered. Which is all that was asked, both in thew case of LC and Special Needs classes

He wrote in full in the letter, but the comments about school and high community transmission were in bold print in the last couple of paragraph was a guide to schools going forward as you keep telling us all here community guides schools but Normal cherry picks

https://twitter.com/INTOnews/status/1352025251866169349

Anything4883 · 21-01-2021 10:09AM

khalessi wrote: »

I answered your question which was about nurses, now youre not happy so moving goal posts. You can't ask something again if you didnt ask it in first place.

But to answer you creche workers and shop workers are entitled to go sick, if there is a safety issue. Shops can and have changed to click and collect or order online the collect or deliver lessening risks for shop workers, indeed many have.

So we woudl probably have more people at home similar to last March, many working from home and lower case numbers.

I can teach from home, I cannot nurse from home, see previous joke thanks for your input.

Creche workers and shop workers are entitled to go sick if there is a safety issue?
What does that even mean?

Why Teachers feel they are above all else in society because of this pandemic is beyond me.
You may be able to teach from home....but the other side is some child may not be able to learn from home.
See its not all about you. The point remains.... All other sectors ive mentioned at high risk are working through this... not teachers tho.

Stateofyou · 21-01-2021 10:14AM

WicklaBlaa wrote: »

Not all students can be taught remotely. Therefore, not all teachers are in a position to do the job they are paid for and should turn up for work. Like everyone else.

ITS. A. GLOBAL. PANDEMIC. :rolleyes:

Like everyone else... told to work from home and meet no one? JFC

History Queen · 21-01-2021 10:29AM

Can we please stop with the false comparisons?

At primary level, teachers are in a classroom with up to 30 unmasked others for hours with minimal social distancing and a necessity to break social distancing at several points throughout the day, there may also be another adult or two in the room.

At secondary, teachers are in classrooms with up to 30 others for between 40 mins and an hour at a time before going in to anothrr classroom with similar numbers and full social distancing not possible. Throughout the day they can have over 250 contacts, yet contact tracers largely tell them that they can't be a closecontact as they were wearing a mask. Dr Abigail Collins with NPHET has conceded that contact tracing in schools is treated differently to society at large.

The above is worrying enough when community transmission is low but when it is high it is much more worrying because what Norma seems to foget is Dr Tony Holohan said Schools are safe....when community transmission is low.

If you want to compare us to someone,compare us to a sector in similar conditions.

Stateofyou · 21-01-2021 10:40AM

mariaalice wrote: »

Even for those with autism or profound disability or any disability having the schools closed makes no difference?

For children with no disadvantage, a month off is not going to make a difference you are correct in that.

I'm just catching up on yesterday's posts...

mariaalice - Let's just be straight. Are you prepared to say point blank that preventing regression in SN children is worth more than their teacher's life and health, and the family they live with? Is it worth risking their own health and finding themselves alone in a hospital setting or even worse, no hospital bed available at all? I read yesterday from the head of the ICU that they're worried in the coming weeks there may not be a bed available for ill people. This is the most serious and scary situation facing us in our lifetime. And as heartbreaking as it is to have our most vulnerable so negatively impacted, shoving these people together now and without proper planning/safeguards in place is reckless.

TTLF · 21-01-2021 10:42AM

The ideas of the mass amount of school work is very true. To put it simply, I've noticed with my 5-6 classes a day, I'm still getting a lot of work, and even with taking time off to relax after staring at my screen all day, I have had multiple nights where I'm up till 11pm-1am finishing off an assignment, or I'm a little behind on an assignment but trying to keep up (I.e. My German Oral work) :pac:

I understand teachers are more willing, but at times I'm sitting at my PC for about 2 hours doing various questions for a single assignment, (i.e. Business) or essays due 3-4 days later. For example, I was doing my history essay up until 1am because I found it hard to concentrate trying to type it since I had been staring at a screen, or I've had to read entire Geography chapters, make notes and upload images of them to classroom.

In all honesty, it's made my sleep schedule a little wack, I fell asleep for 2 hours last night on my bed trying to watch a video "in my downtime" and then couldn't fall asleep properly until 4am.

I hope this ends soon. I really do

average_runner · 21-01-2021 10:42AM

We got an email yesterday from the principals of our kids schools saying they were happy to open for the kids with special needs and the teachers were very happy to go back and disappointed they couldn't. My friend is also a principal of a school and said the same thing. Now these are primary schools.

So can the union stop teachers from going in, even though the teachers are happy to return and feel the environment is safe in their schools?

Surely this should be up to the teachers and the schools themselves?

History Queen · 21-01-2021 10:45AM

average_runner wrote: »

We got an email yesterday from the principals of our kids schools saying they were happy to open for the kids with special needs and the teachers were very happy to go back and disappointed they couldn't. My friend is also a principal of a school and said the same thing. Now these are primary schools.

So can the union stop teachers from going in, even though the teachers are happy to return and feel the environment is safe in their schools?

Surely this should be up to the teachers and the schools themselves?

The primary teachers union and forsa DID NOT direct their members not to attend. They asked the Dept for more time to find a workable solution. The Dept decided not to open the schools.

Edit: so no schools cannot open when Dept have closed them

21-01-2021 10:52AM

khalessi wrote: »

He wrote in full in the letter, but the comments about school and high community transmission were in bold print in the last couple of paragraph was a guide to schools going forward as you keep telling us all here community guides schools but Normal cherry picks

https://twitter.com/INTOnews/status/1352025251866169349

Exact words, verbatim from the letter

Equally, it is my view that, while the experience from September to December 2020 has clearly demonstrated that
schools are in themselves a safe environment, the current epidemiological situation has deteriorated to a point where the significant levels of mobility and linked activity that the full reopening of schools would generate, constitutes a very significant additional risk in the context of
what are already unprecedented levels of disease transmission in the community.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/

The full letter is an interesting read

Stateofyou · 21-01-2021 10:57AM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Niall Collins having a pop on Today FM this evening. Plenty Lord Farquaads sniping from the Convention Centre this weather.

Even SN's parents are calling out the Farquaads. I saw this comment on an Independent article this morning, loads of likes on it. (Article about dept being sued)

"..As a special needs parent myself I'm not prepared to put my kids at risk and I don't expect others to put themselves at risk either. So yourself and Anne can jog on. I'm disgusted that this is being threatened on people who are terrified to go into work. How dare any parent force their kids on anyone. That's disgusting."

Looking at social media this morning here and there, this situation is now a hot MESS. :mad:

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01