Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Smacruairi

markodaly wrote: »

What exactly in these schools are they doing in Newry that they are not doing in Dundalk?
It is a very fair question.

You've literally been told. You then dismissed them as buzzwords. Then you mentioned teachers salaries, mandatory quarantine borders and other nonsense.

Return to proper contact tracing, they have testing in schools, not just "go ring around your own contacts", and they have a vaccine being distributed in the community.

We reduced our cleaning budget, have no contact tracing, no alternative arrangements for students who aren't in this super specific plan but will be left behind by it. That's just off the top of my head. That's like the 4th time you've been told.

wirelessdude01

markodaly wrote: »

Well, she may have some power, we know what would happen if she actually opened up the school without any agreement from the Unions.

Tell us what you think would happen seeing as you seem to have a smart reply for practically everything said on here?

Be interesting to see what you think seeing as you seem to be quite ignorant of who has power to compel, dictate or enforce things.

yrreg0850

markodaly wrote: »

OK, say shes does that.

Say, she releases a press statement about schools and classes for special needs opening on Monday and requesting all teachers to attend.
I am sure the Unions will be fine with that, and all teachers will do as she says?

Is that not what should be done . After all shops were told to close and ,they will reopen when told to do so.
Schools were also told to close so ,why can schools not reopen when told to do so.

SusanC10

average_runner wrote: »

For long division, record on it on a video and send it out to the kids. Then have a zoom call and go over it again. This is what they are doing for our kids in primary.

This is what our daughter's Teacher has done. He recorded himself doing examples on a White Board, talking them through it. Then had a couple of the Live Classes on it.

What's different in our house this time is 2 Laptops instead of 1 so 1 for each child. Also organisation all round - I am more organised and was prepared to homeschool again since last Summer (last time blindsided us all) and both Schools more organised and the Primary in particular far more structured.
I must say that we were happy enough last year especially with the Secondary but everything is working better this time round.

wirelessdude01

Dave wants to say thank you to all of us teachers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_bQ9nzt9Xo

markodaly

Smacruairi wrote: »

You've literally been told. You then dismissed them as buzzwords.

Contact tracing and testing is something the entire nation is doing, these are not specifically geared towards a few people in the education sector.
Are we suggesting now, that the teaching Unions get on board and start dictating how and who to test and perform contact tracing for the entire country?

What exactly about testing and contract tracing with respect to schools are done in Newry and not done in Dundalk.

Are they testing teachers every day in Newry?

wirelessdude01

SusanC10 wrote: »

This is what our daughter's Teacher has done. He recorded himself doing examples on a White Board, talking them through it. Then had a couple of the Live Classes on it.

What's different in our house this time is 2 Laptops instead of 1 so 1 for each child. Also organisation all round - I am more organised and was prepared to homeschool again since last Summer (last time blindsided us all) and both Schools more organised and the Primary in particular far more structured.
I must say that we were happy enough last year especially with the Secondary but everything is working better this time round.

I pretty much have to start from scratch. Foundation wasn't put in properly by the 5th class teacher last year(prior to covid closure) and also the sub in for me earlier this school year was absolutely useless and didn't do it(openly told the class they didn't know how to teach it).

Anyway i'll put it aside and hope we are back in after midterm and then tackle it. It we aren't back then loom it is.

Smacruairi

markodaly wrote: »

Are we suggesting now, that the teaching Unions get on board and start dictating how and who to test and perform contact tracing for the entire country?

You know what, go Google it for yourself. Your response is both hysterical and the definition of a strawman.

tjhook

yrreg0850 wrote: »

Is that not what should be done . After all shops were told to close and ,they will reopen when told to do so.
Schools were also told to close so ,why can schools not reopen when told to do so.

That's within the minister's power.

I don't work in the education sector and I have no union. If my employer insisted I return to the workplace, saying the workplace was "safe" during a wave that made this country among the worst in the world, despite distancing being impossible (including frequent physical contact and caring for intimate needs) and without showing how it's safe, I would:

1. Suggest they rethink what they're proposing - delay the return.

2. If that's not possible, suggest making the workplace as safe as it should be; testing processes, arrange for contact tracing, proper PPE and ensure we're in the queue for vaccines at the same level as other groups working in similar conditions.

3. If there as no movement on any of that, I'd let them know my unhappiness and decide for myself the level of risk I'm willing to take on behalf of myself and those for whom I'm responsible. Up to and including considering whether the changes to my working conditions make the job worthwhile to me.

It's not too dissimilar to how the teachers are reacting.

Stateofyou

markodaly wrote: »

Contact tracing and testing is something the entire nation is doing, these are not specifically geared towards a few people in the education sector.
Are we suggesting now, that the teaching Unions get on board and start dictating how and who to test and perform contact tracing for the entire country?

What exactly about testing and contract tracing with respect to schools are done in Newry and not done in Dundalk.

Are they testing teachers every day in Newry?

I can't figure out if you genuinely forget facts and details or if you're deliberately obtuse just to stir it up.

Don't you remember that we don't really have a properly functioning test and tracing system right now? Don't you know that even in the better times during lower transmission the definition of what a close contact is, is different in the education sector than in other workplaces? There is no other sector like the classroom here in Ireland, especially primary with often 30+ unmasked students who aren't always great at social distancing and hygiene.

Why are you expecting people here to be knowledgeable about the innerworkings of NI? Why don't you go research that and tell us what you find (with links of course).

Baggly

Stateofyou wrote: »

I can't figure out if you genuinely forget facts and details or if you're deliberately obtuse just to stir it up.

Don't you remember that we don't really have a properly functioning test and tracing system right now? Don't you know that even in the better times during lower transmission the definition of what a close contact is, is different in the education sector than in other workplaces? There is no other sector like the classroom here in Ireland, especially primary with often 30+ unmasked students who aren't always great at social distancing and hygiene.

Why are you expecting people here to be knowledgeable about the innerworkings of NI? Why don't you go research that and tell us what you find (with links of course).

Mod

Everyone should please remember that if you feel a post breaks forum rules, report it and dont engage. Do not engage and make accusations around breaches of forum charter. Its not your job.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

I can't figure out if you genuinely forget facts and details or if you're deliberately obtuse just to stir it up.

Don't you remember that we don't really have a properly functioning test and tracing system right now? Don't you know that even in the better times during lower transmission the definition of what a close contact is, is different in the education sector than in other workplaces? There is no other sector like the classroom here in Ireland, especially primary with often 30+ unmasked students who aren't always great at social distancing and hygiene.

Why are you expecting people here to be knowledgeable about the innerworkings of NI? Why don't you go research that and tell us what you find (with links of course).

Contacts are been traced. Just not tested.

And in fact far more cases are now being identified as through contact, than community

wirelessdude01

Deleted User wrote: »

Contacts are been traced. Just not tested.

And in fact far more cases are now being identified as through contact, than community

I know this isn't fully correct. I know of recent cases where the person was told to identify and then tell their contacts to self isolate.

Wombatman

average_runner wrote: »

Get cases back under a 1,000 and hospital numbers down, then the schools can open fully.
But not a hope till then.

Remote learning is going very well this time, so we can wait till end of feb

I'm not saying the above should be the metrics, but well defined, measurable, metrics like these are what is need to resolve this kerfuffle.

NPHET need to make a clear statement on what defined targets need to be reached before it is safe to go back to school.

I'd fully expect all involved, teachers, the department, parents, students, unions, bus drives etc., etc. to get fully behind clear Covid related metrics like these.

wirelessdude01

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm not saying the above should be the metrics, but well defined, measurable, metrics like these are what is need to resolve this kerfuffle.

NPHET need to make a clear statement on what defined targets need to be reached before it is safe to go back to school.

I'd fully expect all involved, teachers, the department, parents, students, unions, bus drives etc., etc. to get fully behind clear Covid related metrics like these.

When it comes to schools NPHET tend to speak in riddles and smoke and mirrors. Need to read between the lines as to what they aren't saying straight out.

Other sectors, the advice is very straight and blunt which leads me to suspect that in relation to schools they are being asked to not say certain things.

Stateofyou

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm not saying the above should be the metrics, but well defined, measurable, metrics like these are what is need to resolve this kerfuffle.

NPHET need to make a clear statement on what defined targets need to be reached before it is safe to go back to school.

I'd fully expect all involved, teachers, the department, parents, students, unions, bus drives etc., etc. to get fully behind clear Covid related metrics like these.

I received an email the other day from my kids' old school district back in the US. It was very interesting. They had well defined, measurable metrics they decided on for what would allow a return to schools in-person. Depending on data, specific ranges were given as to what would happen, when and how. Such as a staggered return, and what that would mean for buses, activities, and after school programs. Looks like every detail was thought through and then released to parents and school staff. Imagine...

Edit to add: they also have a district wide hybrid remote learning plan in place since last May, enhanced again in August. IT equipment and wifi purchased and distributed for those in need-books too. School meals organised for delivery too. As well as mailed books from the library, and online content. Again, just imagine...

FishOnABike

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Contacts are been traced. Just not tested.

And in fact far more cases are now being identified as through contact, than community

Close contacts need to be tested to limit secondary and asymptomatic transmission.

Either that or assume they have CoViD-19 and self isolate for a fortnight from the last close contact with a confirmed case.

If the diagnosed case happens to be someone in your household you may have to self isolate for the best part of a month.

If the diagnosed person is not in the close contacts household and the close contact is not tested then the close contact's close contacts will have no reason to self isolate and the transmission chain will not be broken.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. While case numbers are high we can't test close contacts but while we can't test close contacts we will struggle to reduce the case numbers.

History Queen

Stateofyou wrote: »

I received an email the other day from my kids' old school district back in the US. It was very interesting. They had well defined, measurable metrics they decided on for what would allow a return to schools in-person. Depending on data, specific ranges were given as to what would happen, when and how. Such as a staggered return, and what that would mean for buses, activities, and after school programs. Looks like every detail was thought through and then released to parents and school staff. Imagine...

If only! It would cut down all the worry, conjecture and finger pointing.

Leftwaffe

jrosen wrote: »

Just to ask for any secondary teachers? Are you now regularly covering new material or just revision? I have a JC here and i had a good look this morning over his work and it seems and he also says they are not covering much new material and its mostly revision.

I haven’t done any revision with any of my classes. Been covering new material since the stoppage. Doing exactly what would have been done in class.

Stateofyou

History Queen wrote: »

If only! It would cut down all the worry, conjecture and finger pointing.

But like, it's possible. It's not even extraordinary or anything; it's what I would do in a leadership position and who tf am I? As it's sometimes said, even the dogs on the street know. It's not exactly rocket science. That's what I can't get over. It's as if our leaders just have no fécks to give.

History Queen

Stateofyou wrote: »

But like, it's possible. It's not even extraordinary or anything; it's what I would do in a leadership position and who tf am I? As it's sometimes said, even the dogs on the street know. It's not exactly rocket science. That's what I can't get over. It's as if our leaders just have no fécks to give.

I agree with you entirely. I said very similar at a union meeting in the last few days and called on them to demand same is done. It's not bloody unreasonable. Operating in an information vacuum is what is causing a lot of the problems.

History Queen

This article articulates some of what we have been saying:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40211021.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Edit: final paragraph really nails it for me:

"Parents, teachers, SNAs, advocates have all received abuse online this week. Ultimately, they share the same goal – to get children their education, and give them some semblance of normality during this god-awful time."

TTLF

The ISSU there posted the results to that survey for LC student's opinions on the opinion with the Leaving Cert exams.

I can't find the post I read on instagram, but here's one that's practically the same. https://www.thejournal.ie/students-want-choice-leaving-cert-calculated-grades-5330171-Jan2021/

The interesting statistic I found

"This found that over 81% of respondents rated giving Leaving Cert students a choice between Calculated Grades or sitting in-person exams in June favourably.

The survey had over 20,000 responses, and involved a private webinar with over 250 representatives of 480 ISSU member schools."

That's an overwhelming response, I'm actually quite shocked by it. Crazy that the students are really standing up to this and ISSU is "on our side."

They're giving the results to Norma and M.M. on Friday at some meeting apparently.

EDIT: Here's the letter for the poll results https://www.issu.ie/news2/2021-survey-results

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I know this isn't fully correct. I know of recent cases where the person was told to identify and then tell their contacts to self isolate.

Everyone shuld tell their own contacts to isolate when the get the result. The contact tracers still follow up.

Some good data on it
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-testing-and-contact-tracing-update-21-january-2021.pdf

wirelessdude01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Everyone shuld tell their own contacts to isolate when the get the result. The contact tracers still follow up.

Some good data on it
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-testing-and-contact-tracing-update-21-january-2021.pdf

Problem is the person. I know of two who didn't tell the majority of their close contacts out of shame. Also people being people tend to ignore the "unofficial" information. They only take notice of they get told by the tracing team.

History Queen

TTLF wrote: »

The ISSU there posted the results to that survey for LC student's opinions on the opinion with the Leaving Cert exams.

I can't find the post I read on instagram, but here's one that's practically the same. https://www.thejournal.ie/students-want-choice-leaving-cert-calculated-grades-5330171-Jan2021/

The interesting statistic I found

"This found that over 81% of respondents rated giving Leaving Cert students a choice between Calculated Grades or sitting in-person exams in June favourably.

The survey had over 20,000 responses, and involved a private webinar with over 250 representatives of 480 ISSU member schools."

That's an overwhelming response, I'm actually quite shocked by it. Crazy that the students are really standing up to this and ISSU is "on our side."

They're giving the results to Norma and M.M. on Friday at some meeting apparently.

EDIT: Here's the letter for the poll results https://www.issu.ie/news2/2021-survey-results

Ttlf, do you happen to have a link to how they see this choice working? I just want to have the full facts.

TTLF

History Queen wrote: »

Ttlf, do you happen to have a link to how they see this choice working? I just want to have the full facts.

Uhhh, afaik right now I think they just wanted people's opinions because the ISSU can only influence the governments decision and wanted to see what the overall majority was so they could present it at Fridays meeting, but the full extent of the survey in depth can be seen here which I'm slowly going through, so they might have explain it here although I'm not too sure if they do, sorry.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d36029ba09e370001fa2248/t/6007fb145a52cd7123ad3795/1611135773637/ISSU+Report+on+the+2021+State+Examinations+and+Return+to+School.pdf

Hopefully that embeds.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Problem is the person. I know of two who didn't tell the majority of their close contacts out of shame. Also people being people tend to ignore the "unofficial" information. They only take notice of they get told by the tracing team.

Shame and heedlessness are scourges in this country alright. They did however make 22,000 contact tracing calls and send over 30,000 tests to contacts in the last full week. There were 25,000 cases with an average of 2.8 contacts per case. Given many cases and contacts are in the same households thats pretty good coverage

Smacruairi

TTLF wrote: »

The ISSU there posted the results to that survey for LC student's opinions on the opinion with the Leaving Cert exams.

I can't find the post I read on instagram, but here's one that's practically the same. https://www.thejournal.ie/students-want-choice-leaving-cert-calculated-grades-5330171-Jan2021/

The interesting statistic I found

"This found that over 81% of respondents rated giving Leaving Cert students a choice between Calculated Grades or sitting in-person exams in June favourably.

The survey had over 20,000 responses, and involved a private webinar with over 250 representatives of 480 ISSU member schools."

That's an overwhelming response, I'm actually quite shocked by it. Crazy that the students are really standing up to this and ISSU is "on our side."

They're giving the results to Norma and M.M. on Friday at some meeting apparently.

EDIT: Here's the letter for the poll results https://www.issu.ie/news2/2021-survey-results

Interesting. 73% of students feeling unsafe.
75% saying govt have been communicating poorly.
71% saying the govt is not giving enough support.

That is fairly convincing.

So students aren't happy with the govt., I think we can say teachers aren't happy with the govt, just left for the parents council to do or say something.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck right

the corpo

Smacruairi wrote: »

Interesting. 73% of students feeling unsafe.
75% saying govt have been communicating poorly.
71% saying the govt is not giving enough support.

That is fairly convincing.

Yeah, but they're only students, what would they know. In't that right, Norma?