Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

yerwanthere123 · 19-01-2021 12:46AM

rob316 wrote: »

Disgraceful. Teachers are like endangered species with this carry on from the unions. I'll remind you, your an essential public service, you have been mandated by your employer to go back to work so you should. Special needs kids can not be reached remotely, it's ridiculous to even try to, your totally abandoning the needs of these kids and there parents.

All in this together apparently.

No doubt said by someone working remotely from home I'd guess :rolleyes:

wirelessdude01 · 19-01-2021 12:49AM

rob316 wrote: »

Disgraceful. Teachers are like endangered species with this carry on from the unions. I'll remind you, your an essential public service, you have been mandated by your employer to go back to work so you should. Special needs kids can not be reached remotely, it's ridiculous to even try to, your totally abandoning the needs of these kids and there parents.

All in this together apparently.

No the government have abandoned everyone with their reckless approach to reopening. Picking and choosing what they want from the NPHET buffet depending on who they want to please. Only now are people being fined for breaking the likes of the 5km rule, only now are they even considering mandatory quarantine for people coming to our island. Far too late.

wirelessdude01 · 19-01-2021 12:50AM

Piehead wrote: »

Possibly post Easter but may be Sept

Sept '23 just to be safe!!

isup · 19-01-2021 12:50AM

rob316 wrote: »

Disgraceful. Teachers are like endangered species with this carry on from the unions. I'll remind you, your an essential public service, you have been mandated by your employer to go back to work so you should. Special needs kids can not be reached remotely, it's ridiculous to even try to, your totally abandoning the needs of these kids and there parents.

All in this together apparently.

Everyone knows the kids and parents need them to be back in ,but it's just not that simple with the cases being so high.

BonsaiKitten · 19-01-2021 12:50AM

E36Ross wrote: »

I think if they all sat around the socially distanced table and Norma actually acknowledged the very awkward position of schools, that they are not truly safe but they really are essential for the benefit of SEN children and actually spoke to the very people she represents to see what would help to make it a safer environment. She would earn a lot more respect from everyone!

But instead she continues to play the same tune of "Schools are safe" and seemingly ignores any concerns.

This is very true actually and I think if the Department admitted that schools (and bubbles and pods) are not in some sort of magical Covid free land there would be much more willingness to engage. Not saying it'd mean bring all the kids back but an open discussion could be had.

This is the result of teachers being lied to for months. I feel that's at the heart of a lot of it, people are sick of seeing statistics massaged. Not to mention years of additional workload and demands being piled on, plus things like July provision pay, general payroll ****ups, lack of funds, Croke park etc etc. Hard to expect goodwill when they've eroded so much already.

rob316 · 19-01-2021 12:51AM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

No doubt said by someone working remotely from home I'd guess :rolleyes:

Nope I've worked every day of the pandemic on site fulfilling my private sector job obligations.

HC workers struggled on with inadequate ppe in the first wave and there wasn't any dereliction of public duty.

the corpo · 19-01-2021 12:52AM

It's such an ill thought out plan...

Had a PTA zoom with our principal earlier and she was so angry and upset after today's webinar. It's causing such division and harm, amongst parents vs schools, SEN staff vs other staff. It's just so unnecessary. I mean, one point amongst a mountain of others, if a child with additional needs is brought back into a virtually empty school, their first question will be where are my friends and why am I different from them? How damaging will that be?

If, just ONCE, the Department sat down with the principals and said, "Look, how can we make this work?"...

as_mo_bhosca · 19-01-2021 12:52AM

rob316 wrote: »

Disgraceful. Teachers are like endangered species with this carry on from the unions. I'll remind you, your an essential public service, you have been mandated by your employer to go back to work so you should. Special needs kids can not be reached remotely, it's ridiculous to even try to, your totally abandoning the needs of these kids and there parents.

All in this together apparently.

Well, that is total rubbish. How many SEN children do you teach? The ones I teach are doing very well. They do their work everyday and we are in contact via email, teams and their parents. Some feel quite insulted that they are being asked to come back during the pandemic. From speaking to my colleagues I would say that less than 50% of our children will return to school this week. Not all SEN students are the same. Many are quite capable of engaging online and working from home.
Also, we are not employed to fulfil the needs of the parents. We are there to educate. We are not respite carers.

JP100 · 19-01-2021 12:52AM

rob316 wrote: »

Disgraceful. Teachers are like endangered species with this carry on from the unions. I'll remind you, your an essential public service, you have been mandated by your employer to go back to work so you should. Special needs kids can not be reached remotely, it's ridiculous to even try to, your totally abandoning the needs of these kids and there parents.

All in this together apparently.

Ok, let's have a calm discussion here on this. So, tell me first of all, what experience do have you teaching SEN children to make you arrive at the absolute conclusion that no SEN children at all can be taught remotely?

khalessi · 19-01-2021 12:54AM

https://twitter.com/MobikaStewart/status/1324983806667927553

The HorsesMouth · 19-01-2021 12:57AM

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is the effect the doom and gloom media has had on this whole debacle.
I had a friend return from Dubai and said they couldn't believe the hysteria among people here.
No one is arguing that this isn't a serious situation we are in and I'm not to say what is safe and what isn't. But from the get go we have constantly seen scaremongering from the news outlets of this country. Which, in my mind, has fuelled this catastrophic, sense of doom type opinion that is out there among teachers, snas etc.
So on the one hand they are trying to scare us into staying at home and basically if you step outside your 5k you are going to see scenes similar to Bergamo in March. Yet on the other saying well children need special education and sure anyways schools are safe.
And people are simply not buying it. If there was a reasoned tone to the debate from the start maybe teachers and snas wouldn't be so fearful in the first place.
School is obviously being implemented in other countries around the EU in a safe manner..it can be done but I do not blame teachers and snas for been so scared when all they are being fed since March is fear and doom from George Lee et al.

rob316 · 19-01-2021 12:58AM

as_mo_bhosca wrote: »

Well, that is total rubbish. How many SEN children do you teach? The ones I teach are doing very well. They do their work everyday and we are in contact via email, teams and their parents. Some feel quite insulted that they are being asked to come back during the pandemic. From speaking to my colleagues I would say that less than 50% of our children will return to school this week. Not all SEN students are the same. Many are quite capable of engaging online and working from home.
Also, we are not employed to fulfil the needs of the parents. We are there to educate. We are not respite carers.

Respite carers? No but school provides an essential structure to my son's life and since March I have seen a sharp regression in him socially and ability wise. I'm talking about severely autistic kids with an ID. The most vunerable of our children and totally forgotten about in this pandemic.

My opinion and that of the other parents is remote learning is totally insufficient.

The Wordress · 19-01-2021 12:59AM

I think the whole shambles of a situation has ended up being very sad and stressful for everyone involved.

I really do not like the way we were pitted against each other- teachers versus SEN parents, unions versus SEN parents, governments versus unions, mainstream versus SEN etc etc.

Ultimately, I think what should have saved a lot of time and negative emotions was if the government came out and said at the very beginning that we are in emergency crisis situation with hospitals, ICUs, record covid cases and the situation in schools is just not safe and on X date, we will re assess when is a safe time for us all to return.

The other thing I want to mention is all of my SEN children are the most loved and looked children I have ever met. That is an absolute credit to their parents.

However, I have worked in DEIS schools where some children were seriously neglected and not once I have heard DEIS children being mentioned in this whole saga.

We all have to acknowledge that we are in unprecedented times and our health and safety is matters most in the long run.

I am just drained about what has gone on in the last 2 weeks and ultimately I would not like to see relationships between SEN parents and educators strained.

I do want to say shame on the government about what has gone on. At the end of the day, they are not at the coal face of day to day life at school where communities are built.

khalessi · 19-01-2021 01:00AM

rob316 wrote: »

Disgraceful. Teachers are like endangered species with this carry on from the unions. I'll remind you, your an essential public service, you have been mandated by your employer to go back to work so you should. Special needs kids can not be reached remotely, it's ridiculous to even try to, your totally abandoning the needs of these kids and there parents.

All in this together apparently.

I teach 28 SEN children who if this goes ahead will not recieve the schooling they are getting now. T25 of those kids see me 3 times a week but at the moment they all can access me everyday with questions, and get step by step guidance when needed.

Why not rant about the fact the Minister of Education does not understand the intricracies of the Special Education Teaching role and is thus pitting one group of children with addtional needs against another, which is disgraceful.

as_mo_bhosca · 19-01-2021 01:05AM

rob316 wrote: »

Respite carers? No but school provides an essential structure to my son's life and since March I have seen a sharp regression in him socially and ability wise. I'm talking about severely autistic kids with an ID. The most vunerable of our children and totally forgotten about in this pandemic.

My opinion and that of the other parents is remote learning is totally insufficient.

No argument that that is a tough situation for all involved. What have other services provided in this time? Schools opened in September and worked well when community transmissions were low. Before schools closed for holidays, many other services withdrew their face to face services. It should not all come back in schools. Going back to school with increased social distancing and ppe use will not do much for social interaction amongst other issues.

mirrorwall14 · 19-01-2021 01:07AM

khalessi wrote: »

I teach 28 SEN children who if this goes ahead will not recieve the schooling they are getting now. T25 of those kids see me 3 times a week but at the moment they all can access me everyday with questions, and get step by step guidance when needed.

Why not rant about the fact the Minister of Education does not understand the intricracies of the Special Education Teaching role and is thus pitting one group of children with addtional needs against another, which is disgraceful.

This is one part that I really, really resent. It is literally lining kids up and going ‘your additional needs are fine on your own off you go’ and sure your class teacher will try and differentiate for you in the largest class sizes in Europe...

And then turning to others to say ‘oh you? You aren’t capable of doing this at home so you go to school’. But equally, actually no you can’t have your normal teacher or bubble because they’re all at home or we have to get extra kids into the building... So even though you need routine, we’re actually going to have a different routine anyways.....

Oh and you? You are in a special school so we’ll bring you in three days a week. No, no schools are safe, we’ll just do this because.... well extra cleaning maybe?

Oh but you? You are attached to a mainstream school so you need to be in every day. No no, you don’t need extra cleaning?....

Oh and sure look, you all go on your bus as you like. It’ll be grand.....

BECAUSE THEY DIDNT THINK THIS THROUGH OR CONSULT

Pigeon Chaser · 19-01-2021 01:07AM

If instructed to return to the classroom by their employers, the teachers need to comply, simple as that. Failure to do so should mean a removal of pay.

What would we do if the Esb workers decided **** it, it's too dangerous to work.. Or the Gardaí, or indeed doctors & nurses?

Like it or not, teaching is an essential public service. Society requires various different arms of the public sector working in order to function. Get on with it, like the rest of us have.....

yerwanthere123 · 19-01-2021 01:07AM

rob316 wrote: »

Nope I've worked every day of the pandemic on site fulfilling my private sector job obligations.

HC workers struggled on with inadequate ppe in the first wave and there wasn't any dereliction of public duty.

Aren't you marvellous. Have you worked throughout the pandemic in an environment with zero social distancing? In small, cramped rooms with up to 30 unmasked people? I'm guessing no, and there's no way you'd agree to such a move, so why would you expect others to do it?

No school staff are saying they don't want to return to school, they are simply saying it's unsafe to return now and that it's reasonable request to wait until community transmission has lowered.

khalessi · 19-01-2021 01:10AM

as_mo_bhosca wrote: »

Going back to school with increased social distancing and ppe use will not do much for social interaction amongst other issues.

This is my thinking. These kids are missing their friends, socialisation school routine but coming into this with a more virulent strain and more on the way will necessitate more ppe and make schools like a clinical setting for starters.

I was listening to the radio the other day and goggles recommended (not the ones with side vent holes but fully enclosed) and visors along with enhanced masks and heavier aprons and gloves.

That along with unfamiliar routine in schools, no other children in the school, unfamiliar teacher to work with could be very strange and unsettling for a child depending on their age.

rob316 · 19-01-2021 01:11AM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Aren't you marvellous. Have you worked throughout the pandemic in an environment with zero social distancing? In small, cramped rooms with up to 30 unmasked people? I'm guessing no, and there's no way you'd agree to such a move, so why would you expect others to do it?

No school staff are saying they don't want to return to school, they are simply saying it's unsafe to return now and that it's reasonable request to wait until community transmission has lowered.

Tell it to the nurses who have worked through all manner of conditions with piss poor PPE and have fulfilled their public duty.

Brilliant, move the goal posts I never mentioned mainstream school with high numbers. I'm talking about a room with 6 kids and 2 other adults.

as_mo_bhosca · 19-01-2021 01:11AM

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

If instructed to return to the classroom by their employers, the teachers need to comply, simple as that. Failure to do so should mean a removal of pay.

What would we do if the Esb workers decided **** it, it's too dangerous to work.. Or the Gardaí, or indeed doctors & nurses?

Like it or not, teaching is an essential public service. Society requires various different arms of the public sector working in order to function. Get on with it, like the rest of us have.....

And we are not refusing to work. We just don't want to put our lives, the lives of our colleagues and our students at risk for the sake of another 2 or 3 weeks. 2/3 weeks of reducing numbers and a properly thought out plan for reopening schools is what we are asking for.

Larsso30 · 19-01-2021 01:11AM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Aren't you marvellous. Have you worked throughout the pandemic in an environment with zero social distancing? In small, cramped rooms with up to 30 unmasked people? I'm guessing no, and there's no way you'd agree to such a move, so why would you expect others to do it?

No school staff are saying they don't want to return to school, they are simply saying it's unsafe to return now and that it's reasonable request to wait until community transmission has lowered.

And that's fair enough, but private sector don't get that option, we get the PUP....

Loafing Oaf · 19-01-2021 01:12AM

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is the effect the doom and gloom media has had on this whole debacle.
I had a friend return from Dubai and said they couldn't believe the hysteria among people here.
No one is arguing that this isn't a serious situation we are in and I'm not to say what is safe and what isn't. But from the get go we have constantly seen scaremongering from the news outlets of this country. Which, in my mind, has fuelled this catastrophic, sense of doom type opinion that is out there among teachers, snas etc.
So on the one hand they are trying to scare us into staying at home and basically if you step outside your 5k you are going to see scenes similar to Bergamo in March. Yet on the other saying well children need special education and sure anyways schools are safe.
And people are simply not buying it. If there was a reasoned tone to the debate from the start maybe teachers and snas wouldn't be so fearful in the first place.
School is obviously being implemented in other countries around the EU in a safe manner..it can be done but I do not blame teachers and snas for been so scared when all they are being fed since March is fear and doom from George Lee et al.

Well aren't those impressionable and hypersensitive teachers lucky they can find out from the horse's mouth what's really going on...

The Wordress · 19-01-2021 01:14AM

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

If instructed to return to the classroom by their employers, the teachers need to comply, simple as that. Failure to do so should mean a removal of pay.

What would we do if the Esb workers decided **** it, it's too dangerous to work.. Or the Gardaí, or indeed doctors & nurses?

Like it or not, teaching is an essential public service. Society requires various different arms of the public sector working in order to function. Get on with it, like the rest of us have.....

My responsibilites in my job are not like the job you mentioned. I am directly in charge of the safety and well being of my children at all times.

Also, I already mentioned earlier that my local GP is not doing face to face consultations for the next 3 weeks at a minimum.

There are also nearly 8,000 healthcare staff off at minute for Covid related reasons.

I have a sister who is a healthcare worker who is only working with private clients as does not want to take the risk of contracting Covid by working in a public hospital.

You cannot make sweeping statements about all professions.

khalessi · 19-01-2021 01:18AM

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

If instructed to return to the classroom by their employers, the teachers need to comply, simple as that. Failure to do so should mean a removal of pay.

What would we do if the Esb workers decided **** it, it's too dangerous to work.. Or the Gardaí, or indeed doctors & nurses?

Like it or not, teaching is an essential public service. Society requires various different arms of the public sector working in order to function. Get on with it, like the rest of us have.....

Well if we were essential services we would not be so far down the list for the vaccine. We are so essential we are nearly at the bottom

rob316 · 19-01-2021 01:19AM

as_mo_bhosca wrote: »

And we are not refusing to work. We just don't want to put our lives, the lives of our colleagues and our students at risk for the sake of another 2 or 3 weeks. 2/3 weeks of reducing numbers and a properly thought out plan for reopening schools is what we are asking for.

Ye barely wanted to return in September when the numbers were less than 200 a day. Give me a break

completedit · 19-01-2021 01:21AM

The all right Jack sorts finally have to face the reality of the lockdowns. The same ones in their corporate jobs amassing wealth while eulogising Tony Holohan now have to face the reality of Covid and the disruption it causes. Suddenly the virus that ldemands lockdowns and shutdowns is not all that important or serious because little sorcha has to go to school so mummy can focus on her job. It's bull****. If the schools are safe then society is safe.open up and let covid rip through communities.

Murple · 19-01-2021 01:22AM

rob316 wrote: »

Tell it to the nurses who have worked through all manner of conditions with piss poor PPE and have fulfilled their public duty.

Brilliant, move the goal posts I never mentioned mainstream school with high numbers. I'm talking about a room with 6 kids and 2 other adults.

But you do know that it’s not just special classes that are due to open. That would be the setting where you might find 6 children and 3 adults.
They are also looking to bring in all SET and all SNA and a indeterminate number of children of all ages. There is no limit on the numbers involved, just mention of ‘capacity’ and forming pods and bubbles.

Pigeon Chaser · 19-01-2021 01:22AM

as_mo_bhosca wrote: »

And we are not refusing to work. We just don't want to put our lives, the lives of our colleagues and our students at risk for the sake of another 2 or 3 weeks. 2/3 weeks of reducing numbers and a properly thought out plan for reopening schools is what we are asking for.

I think teachers need to accept the reality that WFH is not possible for all. For second level it can be done. However, for younger pupils under 10 and those with special needs, it's not possible. It is a fallacy to suggest that any meaningful teaching is happening for that cohort.
Teachers reject the public health experts assertions that schools are safe and allege data manipulation. Who decides when it is "safe"? I maintain, nephet/DES should make these decisions, not teachers unions and not teachers..

Pigeon Chaser · 19-01-2021 01:25AM

khalessi wrote: »

Well if we were essential services we would not be so far down the list for the vaccine. We are so essential we are nearly at the bottom

Get over yourselves.. Where are the ESB workers that keep our lights on in the priority list? Pretty darn essential if you ask me.. Or the people involved in good production/delivery/sale?

There are many essential workers. Teachers are among them..

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01