Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

St.Spodo

We're optimistically 3 months away from teachers being vaccinated. Why would teachers, particularly young teachers with perhaps decades in the profession ahead of them, risk getting long-term covid for the sake of a few weeks of in-person teaching for a small minority of students? I won't be going in on Thursday, whether or not my school is ordered to reopen. I'll deal with whatever consequences arise from that decision.

BonsaiKitten

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0118/1190529-special-schools/

I think the wording of this article is very interesting. References to "highly negative comments" by the viewers...to me it seems to paint the teachers and SNAs as being unreasonable. Or am I reading too much into it?

Edit: apologies to Murple who posted it already :pac: Think I'm still too annoyed about the webinar!

Stateofyou

What annoys me right off is Dr. Ronan speaking to the numbers (10% I think) of transmission of covid in children was via school. When we KNOW that the assigning of where it occurred was very much problematic.

Together with the difference of classifying close cases in the school and only going back 48 hours in the tracing, many cases and sources of infection were missed. This is deliberate manipulation of data. In my opinion they knew what they were doing all along so to be able to use the "schools are safe" line down the road while pointing to "solid" data.

wirelessdude01

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0118/1190529-special-schools/

I think the wording of this article is very interesting. References to "highly negative comments" by the viewers...to me it seems to paint the teachers and SNAs as being unreasonable. Or am I reading too much into it?

Edit: apologies to Murple who posted it already :pac: Think I'm still too annoyed about the webinar!

To me, you are reading too much into it.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

To me, you are reading too much into it.

Any word on INTO meeting yet?

wirelessdude01

TheTorment wrote: »

Any word on INTO meeting yet?

Nothing yet. Not one leak from it at all.

Stateofyou

So they turned off the chat quite early on in the video. Well before 15 minutes in over an hour long webinar. Haven't seen comments coming in for many minutes now.

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

So they turned off the chat quite early on in the video. Well before 15 minutes in over an hour long webinar. Haven't seen comments coming in for many minutes now.

YouTube link above has plenty of comments.

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

YouTube link above has plenty of comments.

That's what I'm on? The live chat was going, then sometime while Dr. Ronan was speaking I noticed that the comments just stopped. I've skipped ahead and there are no comments at any other point.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

What annoys me right off is Dr. Ronan speaking to the numbers (10% I think) of transmission of covid in children was via school. When we KNOW that the assigning of where it occurred was very much problematic.

Together with the difference of classifying close cases in the school and only going back 48 hours in the tracing, many cases and sources of infection were missed. This is deliberate manipulation of data. In my opinion they knew what they were doing all along so to be able to use the "schools are safe" line down the road while pointing to "solid" data.

This. Just this.

Why didn't INTO or any Union official question this?

I've just sent another email to my CEC rep and John Boyle.

I have to say that I really have no confidence in my Union in protecting us. I'll be leaving if INTO don't direct members to not turn up for work if Norma Foley won't see the truth.
I have said as much in my emails.

I've become a carer for both my elderly and high risk parents. I'll be getting a Doctor's cert to cover an absence until numbers recede if we are sent back to work amid high numbers.

amacca

All the bull**** and claptrap about stakeholders etc

This is how they go about engaging

I hope teachers take a dim view of management doublespeak and bull**** dept inspections pushing more and more time wasting box ticking nonsense while doing almost nothing useful to tackle actual issues .....
This is how they listen to people's voices....take a leaf from their book ...... they clearly don't lead by example when it comes to to the horse**** they preach.

Stunning levels of hypocrisy....do as I say not as I do.

km79

Looking at it all now the INTO have no choice but to listen to it’s membership
They will do Norma a favour .....

thatsmighty

Comments and likes have been switched off on the YouTube webinar.

BonsaiKitten

Stateofyou wrote: »

That's what I'm on? The live chat was going, then sometime while Dr. Ronan was speaking I noticed that the comments just stopped. I've skipped ahead and there are no comments at any other point.

I think you're right, I just tried to access it again and the option to view live comments isn't appearing. When I posted the link earlier it was working fine so presuming they've disabled it in the last few minutes.

What a pathetic lot.

JTMan

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1351244763450798081

Stateofyou

I'll say this lads - if I were a SN teacher I would not be going in Thursday. My health and my family come first and that's flat. And I would give the same answer as a parent expected to send my children in. When the risk of getting very sick and not having adequate care, or having long term health consequences is just not worth it. In the face of Tony telling us all to stay home, the hospital situation is stark, and in some places here 1/10 have the virus or are a close contact? No way. It's heartbreaking what families and children are facing into, those with SN's and those who are vulnerable and my heart goes out to them. But my health and life is most important, and my children need me too. And I need them. And I want us all to be healthy coming through this. Which is no less than any teacher wants and deserves too, and the school children too for that matter.
This whole situation is a f-g disgrace. That we're even here in the first place thanks to the gov't f@cking it all up and getting the guidelines so wrong over the holidays. They are accountable for this situation now, not teachers or unions.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'll say this lads - if I were a SN teacher I would not be going in Thursday. My health and my family come first and that's flat. And I would give the same answer as a parent expected to send my children in. When the risk of getting very sick and not having adequate care, or having long term health consequences is just not worth it. In the face of Tony telling us all to stay home, the hospital situation is stark, and in some places here 1/10 have the virus or are a close contact? No way. It's heartbreaking what families and children are facing into, those with SN's and those who are vulnerable and my heart goes out to them. But my health and life is most important, and my children need me too. And I need them. And I want us all to be healthy coming through this. Which is no less than any teacher wants and deserves too, and the school children too for that matter.
This whole situation is a f-g disgrace. That we're even here in the first place thanks to the gov't f@cking it all up and getting the guidelines so wrong over the holidays. They are accountable for this situation now, not teachers or unions.

Completely agree. As much as I care for all the children in my care the fact is that my health and the health of my family come first.
As I already said above I will be availing of sick leave until I am satisfied that it is safe (not Norma safe) for me to return.

Birdy

St.Spodo wrote: »

We're optimistically 3 months away from teachers being vaccinated. Why would teachers, particularly young teachers with perhaps decades in the profession ahead of them, risk getting long-term covid for the sake of a few weeks of in-person teaching for a small minority of students? I won't be going in on Thursday, whether or not my school is ordered to reopen. I'll deal with whatever consequences arise from that decision.

At the current rate, teachers won't be vaccinated until the summer holidays. They are 11th on the priority list.

They'll go back when community transmission levels are low. 22nd Feb has always seemed to be the obvious return date.

amacca

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'll say this lads - if I were a SN teacher I would not be going in Thursday. My health and my family come first and that's flat. And I would give the same answer as a parent expected to send my children in. When the risk of getting very sick and not having adequate care, or having long term health consequences is just not worth it. In the face of Tony telling us all to stay home, the hospital situation is stark, and in some places here 1/10 have the virus or are a close contact? No way. It's heartbreaking what families and children are facing into, those with SN's and those who are vulnerable and my heart goes out to them. But my health and life is most important, and my children need me too. And I need them. And I want us all to be healthy coming through this. Which is no less than any teacher wants and deserves too, and the school children too for that matter.
This whole situation is a f-g disgrace. That we're even here in the first place thanks to the gov't f@cking it all up and getting the guidelines so wrong over the holidays. They are accountable for this situation now, not teachers or unions.

But just look how hard they are trying to spin it the other way and the people who will toe their line

St.Spodo

Birdy wrote: »

At the current rate, teachers won't be vaccinated until the summer holidays. They are 11th on the priority list.

They'll go back when community transmission levels are low. 22nd Feb has also seemed to be the obvious return date.

Sure, but the current rate is expected to increase.

Scoondal

thatsmighty wrote: »

Comments and likes have been switched off on the YouTube webinar.

So, it's just like the rest of Ireland where opinions and debate is no longer allowed.

Stateofyou

amacca wrote: »

But just look how hard they are trying to spin it the other way and the people who will toe their line

I know, it's very transparent. The way that they are trying to push this forward in such a blind, hasty manner to make it out as if its the unions and teachers who are the problem is abhorrent in my view. They've played their cards well for their purposes.

In any democracy there are checks on power and balances in play. Unions are just one example. They have a duty of care toward their members, that is their purpose. It's clear that under health and safety legislation, and taking into account our "leaders" scary warnings to the public, this is a non-runner and accountability needs to be put right back where it belongs. When government get it wrong as they so often do the checks on that power need to come out swinging.

The Unions always seem to be on the back foot. They should work together, gather data, prepare the points we discussed here (such as the problems with the data allowing them to constantly spout the "schools are safe" bs) and get health care experts not tied to a gov't agenda to examine all worldwide data and give their professional opinions. What is wrong with them? Why aren't they getting out in front of this? A reactionary meeting tonite isn't good enough. Think outside the box, FFS.

History Queen

carr62 wrote: »

Thank you History Queen. Gosh I think I'm even more concerned now! You mentioned that even on a normal year, the course wouldn't be covered by now in most subjects. So, not only has my daughter to make up the 3 months from last year, she has to add to that all the course material that is yet to be covered for this year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming teachers, but it's a fact that my daughter had one live lesson most days in the last lockdown. Some days there were none. I know things are much more organized this time around, but yes I would have to say that she does indeed have an awful lot of the curriculum yet to cover. I don't know what the answer is. I can see your point about the unfairness in the predicted grades if one teacher has given 6 tests and the teacher next door has only given one. However, I think there's a similar unfairness attached to the written exam, in that some students have had a lot of tuition whereas many have been left wanting. It's a mess whatever way we look at it I think!

Oh no, it wasn't my intention to worry you more! The opposite in fact! Don't equate teaching with live lessons. There are many reasons for not doing lives. It is a two year course. It is to be expected that there is a chunk of the curriculum left to cover. Your daughter may not be as behind as she thinks.

Predicted grades are absolutely not the answer. They are glorified guesses that are then manipulated by the Dept and their infamous algorithm. Inequity of tuition can be mostly addressed through adjusting exam papers.

BonsaiKitten

Apparently Glór have a copy of the YouTube webinar with comments.

Remember Norma, once it's out on the internet you can't take it back...

The Wordress

Any update from the INTO? They are leaving it late in the day to make any kind of announcement.

People will need to make plans, one way or another.

BonsaiKitten

The Wordress wrote: »

Any update from the INTO? They are leaving it late in the day to make any kind of announcement.

People will need to make plans, one way or another.

Yerra that'll take a while.

If they're going to listen to the membership, they need to get John Boyle to stop rolling over and letting Norma tickle his belly first. Will be a bit of a climbdown for him.

The Wordress

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Yerra that'll take a while.

If they're going to listen to the membership, they need to get John Boyle to stop rolling over and letting Norma tickle his belly first. Will be a bit of a climbdown for him.

Why you put that mental image in my mind

wirelessdude01

Here is a mental image for ye.

combat14

do the into executive really care about the safety of teachers, snas, students in the comfort and security of their own homes...?

downthemiddle

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Here is a mental image for ye.

You've scarred me for life.