Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

jimmytwotimes 2013

Larsso30 wrote: »

And that's fair enough, but private sector don't get that option, we get the PUP....

Private sector doesn't get PUP if they work remotely. They get their wages

The Wordress

rob316 wrote: »

Ye barely wanted to return in September when the numbers were less than 200 a day. Give me a break

I think you are coming from a place of misunderstanding the role of SEN teachers, SNAs and SEN staff and how much interaction and close contact there is on a given day.

For the record, outside of our classroom staff, I have not had one visitor to my SEN classroom since March. No SLTs, OT, psychologist etc etc.

The whole point was to create a safe environment and figure out a different way of working.

We are not refusing to work, we are doing what a lot of other professions have done and figured out a safer way of working.

khalessi

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

Get over yourselves.. Where are the ESB workers that keep our lights on in the priority list? Pretty darn essential if you ask me.. Or the people involved in good production/delivery/sale?

There are many essential workers. Teachers are among them..

Hold on you were the one telling us a minute ago we were essential, cant even keep up with yourself :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

as_mo_bhosca

rob316 wrote: »

Ye barely wanted to return in September when the numbers were less than 200 a day. Give me a break

Sorry? When was there any talk of not returning in September? I must have missed that one what with being busy getting ready for all the extra protocols we put in place. Give your self a break now and stop with teacher bashing. You also failed to answer my question about what other services are engaging with your child face to face.

km79

This thread is just depressing again now
So much bitterness

Can people seriously not understand how risky it is for all concerned to be mixing in a classroom right now ?

amacca

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is the effect the doom and gloom media has had on this whole debacle.
I had a friend return from Dubai and said they couldn't believe the hysteria among people here.
No one is arguing that this isn't a serious situation we are in and I'm not to say what is safe and what isn't. But from the get go we have constantly seen scaremongering from the news outlets of this country. Which, in my mind, has fuelled this catastrophic, sense of doom type opinion that is out there among teachers, snas etc.
So on the one hand they are trying to scare us into staying at home and basically if you step outside your 5k you are going to see scenes similar to Bergamo in March. Yet on the other saying well children need special education and sure anyways schools are safe.
And people are simply not buying it. If there was a reasoned tone to the debate from the start maybe teachers and snas wouldn't be so fearful in the first place.
School is obviously being implemented in other countries around the EU in a safe manner..it can be done but I do not blame teachers and snas for been so scared when all they are being fed since March is fear and doom from George Lee et al.

It's more the lies damn lies and statistics I'd hazard a guess

It's more the arrogance and disrespect from stormin (but mostly absent) Norma

Ffs the absolute lies from them and the way theyve handled this

Then its some of the total gob****es that seem to lead or at least be given a platform to influence the public discourse like that hysterical blogger one with the seven kids mistaking schools for supermarket playpens that should be there to facilitate the blogger lifestyle even during this crisis

If it was me personally it would be the complete lack of back up whrn it comes to enforcing rules at post primary ...when a kid is told put on your mask and keep it on or stop jumping all over your friend and pawing them.they shpuld only have to be told once and it should be **** off home after that but of course all that will be swept under the carpet because in a lot of places thete are no strong leaders in terms of discipline and its hard to blame them.given the dept approach of hanging schools out to dry when they do draw a line in the stand and have a standard....everyone has a right to education but no way in hell can you insist a certain cohort have responsibilities that go hand I hand with these rights

It's the idea that maybe s large cohort of SEN kids don't actually want to go back either (for a number of reasons) and one would wonder are they just a win/stepping stone for a spineless Govt that really couldn't give two ****es about them....they are a political football imo

It's the constant bleating from the advocacy groups (one of which has a brother to a minister at the helm) for SEN schools/staff/pupils to go back and resume face to face while they themselves appear to have suspended in person stuff....talk about hypocrisy.....its also the fact that no one who interviews these people ever ask them the hard questions like above.

It's the idea that schools should be back because so many other services are not.....instead of questioning why other services are not too

It's the hiring of a convention centre so TDs can sit with an ocean of space between them earlier while lots of other workers back in usual conditions.....Im surprised more people (no matter the job) were not up.in arms about this ....real leadership is leading by example...but of course that was probably the reason this was done (which means they miss the point entirely)

It's the glib use of the schools are safe mantra ...without any reference to the idea they might not be so safe when it comes to transmission of the new virus particularly when community numbers are high

Its the push to satisfy whatever pressure group beats loudest and pushes their agenda best by creating a divisive story that our jackals in the media can feast upon until the next ****show arrives

It's the sleveens we continually elect to run this country and the abysmal (probably worse alternatives) you woukd have to vote for if you wanted some move towards sensible leadership that isn't based on antagonizing groyps/divide and conquer/covering up incompetence or of course out right corruption

It's people with some sort of weird hang up that a union which after all is paid for by subs from union members should have the gall to stand up for its members instead of being slightly sickened by how weak and reactive they are and wondering why this is the case

It's the extreme loons on the left and the right that seek to use situations like this to sow division do they can make a nice little platform for themselves to spew even more divisive **** out in the future

It's what looks to be very like the massaging of numbers/stats on classification of where covid was contracted to suit the schools are safe mantra ....

It's Dr Ronan skilfully saying schools are safe but not being asked are they safe in terms of transmission when cases in the community are high ...or will they just prove to be safe when the system works to try and classify cases of covid as anything but being picked up in schools

It's people like Norms getting a ministership in the first place

It's weasely announcements of extra funding for schools that are just reclassification of funds that were already there if Im not mistaken

It's not treating grown adults never mind students with an ounce of respect and telling the truth.....

I could go on

Piehead

as_mo_bhosca wrote: »

Sorry? When was there any talk of not returning in September? I must have missed that one what with being busy getting ready for all the extra protocols we put in place. Give your self a break now and stop with teacher bashing. You also failed to answer my question about what other services are engaging with your child face to face.

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0728/1155936-education-ireland/

The Wordress

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

I think teachers need to accept the reality that WFH is not possible for all. For second level it can be done. However, for younger pupils under 10 and those with special needs, it's not possible. It is a fallacy to suggest that any meaningful teaching is happening for that cohort.
Teachers reject the public health experts assertions that schools are safe and allege data manipulation. Who decides when it is "safe"? I maintain, nephet/DES should make these decisions, not teachers unions and not teachers..

I think teachers have a very good understanding of how GDPR is being used to mask the true figure of Covid cases in schools.

I have experience of it in my own school. If only parents really knew what is really going on!

as_mo_bhosca

Piehead wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0728/1155936-education-ireland/

Did you actually read that? That was about a possible staggered reopening due to the short time frame given to carry out all that needed to be done. Unions casting doubt about full opening is a far cry from "teachers don't want to go back to school"

emo72

Terrible argument going on in here between

1. Teachers are slackers and should go to work.

2. Schools are not safe and should stay closed.

I think both sides are correct. My kids is doing the LC and the online teaching is abysmal. One teacher was trying to run a class with her 2 kids going ape****. She gave up the class saying she had to look after her kids. And I know, it's not her fault she's stuck at home with her kids.
So let's not pretend that online schooling works. It doesn't. And my kid suffers. I'm not blaming teachers.

Schools are safe. That's a slogan not a fact. Kids are passing that virus around. I'm not stupid, neither are most people. I really don't see how teachers are meant to work in that environment. But Park that for a minute, there's 30 other kids in that class as well and I don't want my kid at risk. Schools should stay closed until this is over. I've kind of reconciled that my kid is repeating next year, because 5th year was compromised and now 6th year. Be honest there is no way they can finish that course.
Possible solution. Scrap this year and go again in September when this should be over. **** it, it's a once in a 100 year virus, what's another year?

emo72

emo72 wrote: »

Terrible argument going on in here between

1. Teachers are slackers and should go to work.

2. Schools are not safe and should stay closed.

I think both sides are correct. My kids is doing the LC and the online teaching is abysmal. One teacher was trying to run a class with her 2 kids going ape****. She gave up the class saying she had to look after her kids. And I know, it's not her fault she's stuck at home with her kids.
So let's not pretend that online schooling works. It doesn't. And my kid suffers. I'm not blaming teachers.

Schools are safe. That's a slogan not a fact. Kids are passing that virus around. I'm not stupid, neither are most people. I really don't see how teachers are meant to work in that environment. But Park that for a minute, there's 30 other kids in that class as well and I don't want my kid at risk. Schools should stay closed until this is over. I've kind of reconciled that my kid is repeating next year, because 5th year was compromised and now 6th year. Be honest there is no way they can finish that course.
Possible solution. Scrap this year and go again in September when this should be over. **** it, it's a once in a 100 year virus, what's another year?

On current trends we are 3-4 weeks away from a stage where schools operated relatively safely in the Autumn

Locotastic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On current trends we are 3-4 weeks away from a stage where schools operated relatively safely in the Autumn

I think you're right but some people would prefer to think that it's going to be for months on end, schools will be back to normal by February 22nd if not sooner.

Let's hope there are no major difficulties getting back to it, homeschooling was always only to be a temporary measure.

paddyirish23

Maybe I've missed something here but if teachers are worried about going back to school with 20 or 30 in a class with little or no social distance possible why can't they go back and stagger the days for pupils so they can bring that number down by say 3rd?
Less in class and kids get some bit of education all the while social distance can be maintained? I just get the feeling as most parents do that some want to stay off as long as possible?
Am I being bias saying that, maybe but that's how I feel.
Unions not looking for solutions like above doesn't help the issue.

History Queen

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Maybe I've missed something here but if teachers are worried about going back to school with 20 or 30 in a class with little or no social distance possible why can't they go back and stagger the days for pupils so they can bring that number down by say 3rd?
Less in class and kids get some bit of education all the while social distance can be maintained? I just get the feeling as most parents do that some want to stay off as long as possible?
Am I being bias saying that, maybe but that's how I feel.
Unions not looking for solutions like above doesn't help the issue.

I think that's a really good idea. Even halving the cohort would really help. I had sent a similar suggestion to my union and was told it was passed up the foodchain. I don't know why suggestions like this aren't being discussed openly? The media aren't asking about it either? It seems a logical, albeit imperfect solution.

Mardyke

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Maybe I've missed something here but if teachers are worried about going back to school with 20 or 30 in a class with little or no social distance possible why can't they go back and stagger the days for pupils so they can bring that number down by say 3rd?
Less in class and kids get some bit of education all the while social distance can be maintained? I just get the feeling as most parents do that some want to stay off as long as possible?
Am I being bias saying that, maybe but that's how I feel.
Unions not looking for solutions like above doesn't help the issue.

You don't speak for me, as a parent. So don't state that most parents feel like teachers are just looking for a holiday.

Most parents aren't small minded idiots.

paddyirish23

Mardyke wrote: »

You don't speak for me, as a parent. So don't state that most parents feel like teachers are just looking for a holiday.

Most parents aren't small minded idiots.

Where did I say a holiday? I said say off as long as possible. Don't assume it meant holiday.
And MOST obviously doesn't include everyone I.e. you.
Let's leave the insults to the children shall we?

khalessi

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Where did I say a holiday? I said say off as long as possible. Don't assume it meant holiday.
And MOST obviously doesn't include everyone I.e. you.
Let's leave the insults to the children shall we?

Most would also be incorrect as most parents realise that threre is a pandemic and that at the moment we are the worst numbers in the world and want their children at home during that so maybe the structure of your sentence is incorrect.

Why would teachers want to stay of as long s possible?

I am not off. I am getting ready this morning to teach online, which is not is not off.

You are incorrect.

dirkmeister

So far I’ve watched the Tonight Show, Claire Byrne and am now listening to Morning Ireland since that joke of a webinar.

Not one Union rep has been on. Where in the name of jaysus are they?

harr

Our child has additional needs and we are torn as what to do if his school reopens . His regression last year was heart breaking .. he is nearly a teenager and he basically regressed back to toddler state .. that’s not an exaggeration .
You have to factor in also that all other services stopped as well . No speech , no psychological no nothing , all stopped now nearly a year.
We worked so hard for 10 years only to see all that time and effort wasted in the space of 9 months.
I have had people call me irresponsible for even thinking about sending him back and telling me I am putting him in danger.
If the state was supporting us in other areas then yes no need to open special schools.
I have other kids who I am trying to home school all the while trying to do some sort of work with my special needs child who needs 24h care .. life is not easy and not looking for sympathy but trying to let others see what dilemma us parents are in ..
My sons class has 6 pupils and with staggering the times I can see the Reopening being possible with proper procedures put in place.
Our kids are now pawns in a political situation where the two sides are being as stubborn as the other.

paddyirish23

khalessi wrote: »

Most would also be incorrect as most parents realise that threre is a pandemic and that at the moment we are the worst numbers in the world and want their children at home during that so maybe the structure of your sentence is incorrect.

Why would teachers want to stay of as long s possible?

I am not off. I am getting ready this morning to teach online, which is not is not off.

You are incorrect.

Or maybe you just took offence as you are a teacher?
Your pupils are lucky to have a teacher who will be online but online learning doesn't suit a lot ( not every) pupil and is no where near as effective.
I'm not incorrect at all, are you and every teacher working the same hours with face to face with pupils as if ye were in school? No because online learning has limitations for even the most willing. Let's not get offended because you don't like someone else's option now and resort to insults again either!

wirelessdude01

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Maybe I've missed something here but if teachers are worried about going back to school with 20 or 30 in a class with little or no social distance possible why can't they go back and stagger the days for pupils so they can bring that number down by say 3rd?
Less in class and kids get some bit of education all the while social distance can be maintained? I just get the feeling as most parents do that some want to stay off as long as possible?
Am I being bias saying that, maybe but that's how I feel.
Unions not looking for solutions like above doesn't help the issue.

If you go back through the various incarnations of the thread a blended approach was widely suggested and advocated by many. Indeed in the reopening schools document it was talked about but then.....NADA. Never ever mentioned again.

Choochtown

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Or maybe you just took offence as you are a teacher?
Your pupils are lucky to have a teacher who will be online but online learning doesn't suit a lot ( not every) pupil and is no where near as effective.
I'm not incorrect at all, are you and every teacher working the same hours with face to face with pupils as if ye were in school? No because online learning has limitations for even the most willing. Let's not get offended because you don't like someone else's option now and resort to insults again either!

I think it's generally accepted now that teachers are working longer hours at home than they would be if they were in school precisely because online learning has its limitations.

khalessi

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Or maybe you just took offence as you are a teacher?
Your pupils are lucky to have a teacher who will be online but online learning doesn't suit a lot ( not every) pupil and is no where near as effective.
I'm not incorrect at all, are you and every teacher working the same hours with face to face with pupils as if ye were in school? No because online learning has limitations for even the most willing. Let's not get offended because you don't like someone else's option now and resort to insults again either!

No I take offense because you are wrong. Actually sorry, you can look back at my threads about how long I worked the last lockdown and sure my days again are long enough around 12 hour days. Online teaching is harder because it take smore time to do it better.

Oh I haven't insulted you I simply pointed out you are wrong. And to add parents posting here are happier this time round as schools were more prepared and ready to go.

Mardyke

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Where did I say a holiday? I said say off as long as possible. Don't assume it meant holiday.
And MOST obviously doesn't include everyone I.e. you.
Let's leave the insults to the children shall we?

Do you have an issue with teachers because you failed your Junior Cert? Is that it?

Pigeon Chaser

Choochtown wrote: »

I think it's generally accepted now that teachers are working longer hours at home than they would be if they were in school precisely because online learning has its limitations.

LOL. Teachers delusions have reached new heights this morning. Working longer hours? Get a grip of yourself.....

Mrsmum

Can I ask a question of a teacher or sna whose normal job is in a special needs school with children who have the highest level of special needs - are you able to work with these children at all at the moment ? If you pretty much can't ( through no fault of your own) how would you feel about offering say the midterm or a week at Easter, when things are safer instead ? If you are somehow working away at the moment, that's fair enough.

Mardyke

Mrsmum wrote: »

Can I ask a question of a teacher or sna whose normal job is in a special needs school with children who have the highest level of special needs - are you able to work with these children at all at the moment ? If you pretty much can't ( through no fault of your own) how would you feel about offering say the midterm or a week at Easter, when things are safer instead ? If you are somehow working away at the moment, that's fair enough.

It's mind boggling the attitude towards teachers! By the way, I am not a teacher and have no teacher in my family.

These same people giving out about teachers will still go and vote in FF and the likes, who then install idiots like Norma Foley. These are the people that should be receiving the anger from the SUV brigade.

wirelessdude01

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

LOL. Teachers delusions have reached new heights this morning. Working longer hours? Get a grip of yourself.....

Maybe you need to fly away Pigeon as it seems you are unable to accept a view that is not in line with your well formed one. Personally speaking , I can confirm that that the working day is indeed a hell of a lot longer. Preparations take longer but corrections, ohh my god the corrections and feedback take forever. The corrections are like running on a threadmill that doesn't have a stop button.

Choochtown

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

LOL. Teachers delusions have reached new heights this morning. Working longer hours? Get a grip of yourself.....

I said "generally accepted". There's always a small percentage of people without the understanding or experience of the issues who may think otherwise. That is of course their perogative, however ineloquently they deem to express it.

paddyirish23

harr wrote: »

Our child has additional needs and we are torn as what to do if his school reopens . His regression last year was heart breaking .. he is nearly a teenager and he basically regressed back to toddler state .. that’s not an exaggeration .
You have to factor in also that all other services stopped as well . No speech , no psychological no nothing , all stopped now nearly a year.
We worked so hard for 10 years only to see all that time and effort wasted in the space of 9 months.
I have had people call me irresponsible for even thinking about sending him back and telling me I am putting him in danger.
If the state was supporting us in other areas then yes no need to open special schools.
I have other kids who I am trying to home school all the while trying to do some sort of work with my special needs child who needs 24h care .. life is not easy and not looking for sympathy but trying to let others see what dilemma us parents are in ..
My sons class has 6 pupils and with staggering the times I can see the Reopening being possible with proper procedures put in place.
Our kids are now pawns in a political situation where the two sides are being as stubborn as the other.

I feel for pain, my son is in a situation similar and has only 6 in the class, hence the frustration. Regression is fast and takes months if not years to turn around.
Online is out and home schooling can't happen as much as daughter also has special needs. Both of us work and have no choice but to take turns being out of work so the government and the unions can measure who's is bigger!
Just get it sorted and get back to bloody work like the rest of us. If parents don't send in their child fair enough but give us a choice!
Imagine doctors, nurses, guards, shop assistants all refusing to go back to work, christ, it's crazy!