Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Paul Smeenus · 17-01-2021 1:43pm

I do prefer him to Beirne, though. His much-vaunted turnovers rarely materialise at international level.

I would be seriously concerned about the lineout, though.

Wegians89 · 17-01-2021 1:46pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I do prefer him to Beirne, though. His much-vaunted turnovers rarely materialise at international level.

I would be seriously concerned about the lineout, though.

At international level, Beirne would be a better option at 6.

Paul Smeenus · 17-01-2021 1:49pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

At international level, Beirne would be a better option at 6.

Could be. If Hendo's out, I don't know that there's anyone I would prefer to Baird. There's some gap between Iain and James and the next best. Hopefully we'll see in the coming months f he's closer to those two or Roux and Kleyn. I hope and presume it's the former.

Garda Kenny · 17-01-2021 1:56pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Leinster had an absolute must-win game against Ulster a few weeks ago and he was nowhere to be seen in the 23. Was he injured? Because if not, I'd have serious concerns about a second row pairing (him and Ryan) that Cullen wouldn't play in a crunch match against Ulster, lining out against Wales in the 6N.

He’s not been playing long enough to master some areas of his game like lineout and scrum. It’s a significant jump up international level and I feel he’s not ready. Give him another half season and if his lineout shores up I’d put him on bench for international. I don’t feel he’s ready for it yet. He had a shocker against Munster as well the lineout was a shambles

molloyjh · 17-01-2021 1:59pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Leinster had an absolute must-win game against Ulster a few weeks ago and he was nowhere to be seen in the 23. Was he injured? Because if not, I'd have serious concerns about a second row pairing (him and Ryan) that Cullen wouldn't play in a crunch match against Ulster, lining out against Wales in the 6N.

He played against Connacht 6 days earlier so was just being rested. He was one of the few positives from that performance too. 2 clean breaks, 5 defenders beaten, 62m made. I wouldn't read too much into his non-selection vs Ulster. That became a must win after the Connacht game, and so after decisions on how guys would be managed were made (and while the HEC games were still in the schedule).

Former Former Former · 17-01-2021 2:08pm

I don't think Baird is ready, but I'd still pick him ahead of anyone except Henderson.

Buer · 17-01-2021 2:19pm

Not a hope Baird is starting the Welsh game. We haven't seen enough of him in recent times and, when we have, he has looked good rather than demanding test inclusion. We have multiple alternative options available which are more likely.

Right now, I'd say Ryan, Beirne and Roux are going to be out lock options in the first 23 named. They're all playing well and are the incumbents. I don't see that changing dramatically for a trip to Cardiff.

There's no way we are going to go into a game with Baird packing down in the second row and a third or fourth choice tight head on the bench.

This will be a relatively conservative selection. Keenan will probably be retained. Casey might be bolter for the bench. Business as usual outside of that.

Richie_Rich89 · 17-01-2021 2:25pm

I think I would go with:

1. Eric O'Sullivan
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Gavin Thornbury
6. Christiaan Johan Stander
7. Dan Leavy/Will Connors
8. Caelan Doris
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Ciarán Frawley
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Hugo Keenan
15. Jimmy O'Brien

16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Peter Dooley
18. Finlay Bealham
19. Ryan Baird
20. Peter O'Mahony
21. John Cooney
22. Jack Carty
23. Jordan Larmour

Stockdale is probably Ireland's highest level player. I'm surprised to see calls all the time for him to be dropped.

OneLungDavy · 17-01-2021 3:20pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I think I would go with:

1. Eric O'Sullivan
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Gavin Thornbury
6. Christiaan Johan Stander
7. Dan Leavy/Will Connors
8. Caelan Doris
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Jacob Stockdale
12. Ciarán Frawley
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Hugo Keenan
15. Jimmy O'Brien

16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Peter Dooley
18. Finlay Bealham
19. Ryan Baird
20. Peter O'Mahony
21. John Cooney
22. Jack Carty
23. Jordan Larmour

Stockdale is probably Ireland's highest level player. I'm surprised to see calls all the time for him to be dropped.

I love the fact that these are reasonable enough to be taken seriously by some :pac:

17-01-2021 4:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Best guess at Ireland 23 against Wales (if it goes ahead). The Leinster v Munster game is going to be key for guys like Larmour, VDF / Connors / Tadgh Beirne, Lowe, Furlong and a few others to prove fitness and form:

Cian Healy
Ronan Kelleher
Andrew Porter
Ryan Baird
James Ryan
CJ Stander
POM
Doris
Murray
Sexton
Larmour
Aki
Ringrose
Lowe
Stockdale

Herring
Kilcoyne
Bealham
Henderson
VDF
Gibson Park
Burns
Henshaw

Plenty of close calls. Could see Henderson start but I think Baird's form has been better. I suspect Larmour will have one more run out and Lowe if recovered will be straight back in. Furlong with no match time may not even make the wider squad but if he does and performs in training he's a test Lion so anything could happen.

On paper, that's a great team and bench. If it was 2018, I'd think we'd be winning the grand slam.

theVersatile · 17-01-2021 4:36pm

Frawley lol

Hopefully Killer gets to play this weekend to prove his fitness. Would fix some of the front row issues.

I say.

Healy Herring Porter
Beirne Ryan
CJ Doris POM
Murray Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Any three of Lowe, Keenan, Earls, Stockdale.

Louis Friend · 17-01-2021 4:41pm

Andrew Conway has been really good for Ireland whenever he plays. He should be part of the discussion.

The Inbetween is mine · 17-01-2021 4:43pm

1killer 2marshall 3ap 4ryan 5henderson 6cjsaviour 7pom 8doris
9murray 10sexton 11earls 12aki 13ringrose 14lowe 15daly.
Is the side I'd like to see play...won't happen.. but I'd like to see that 11-15 play and see how they dovetail

Clegg · 17-01-2021 4:52pm

Ringrose is one of the first names on the team sheet when fit but he's still injured. In Leinster's most recent injury update he was down as having reinjured his jaw and there is currently no return date. He can't play in.the opening Six Nations with no game time. Barely played since he picked up his knock a few months ago.

phily2002 · 17-01-2021 5:10pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

Andrew Conway has been really good for Ireland whenever he plays. He should be part of the discussion.

I'm a big Conway fan and he was our best winger for a while(Should have been first choice at the world cup). He was very quiet in his last few games for Ireland though, never really got into them, they seemed to pass him by.
He's dropped down behind a few now but a couple of big performances will get him back in the conversation.

Must love hardship · 17-01-2021 6:01pm

O'Sullivan
Herring
Porter

Ryan
Bierne

Ruddock
Leavy
Doris

Murray
R Byrne

Kearney

Henshaw
Hume

Larmour
Keegan

Healy
Kelleher
Bedhlam
Henderson
Coombes
Mcgrath
Sexton
Stockdale

Id like the see the above team..

Only 2 starters over 30. Murray and Kearney both 31.

Not necessarily our best (world cup final/ gun to your head) 15 but a team with an eye to the future.

Plenty of experience on the bench. And guessing ringrose and furlong injured.

I think this will be the 6 nations we realise sexton is not a starter anymore but id hope he would be great coming on with 20 to finish out a game. My worry is this will be only realised at the end of the championship and we've missed an opportunity to look at alternative starting options.. dont think he could last 5 games starting but might last 2 or 3 starting and other 2 or 3 from the bench.

Panels are going to be potentially smaller than usual this year with less call ups baring injury to protect the bubbles so id hope they bring in players who are flexible and can play multiple positions with 2nd row/ backrow and centres and back 3. it could be like a mini world cup with a panel of 32.

Id cut aki loose. Really only plays 12. Passing is very limited and doesn't offer a kicking game defences know what they are going to get from him.

Gibson Park has puzzled me.. was farrell watching rugby for the last few years?? he has been a sub behind mcgrath for 3 or 4 years. Starts for leinster in league after the saracens game and then he is a starter for ireland. He is limited. Id cut him loose too. Cooney can cover 9 & 10 at a push. R Byrne 10 and Centre.

We need to look at other options in the back row too.. stander is really too small for the likes of England. Hard to think of him having a positive impact against them.. (not that many have in past few years)

I just hope that they pick a balanced panel and actually rotate and mix up the squad for games.. no point on flogging some lads like Porter etc. In the autumn internationals and others seeing less than 20 minutes over 6/8 weeks.

bilston · 17-01-2021 6:38pm

I'd go for a bit of consistency

Team for Wales has to be...

15 Dempsey
14 Horgan
13 O'Driscoll
12 D'Arcy
11 Hickie
10 O'Gara
9 Stringer
1 Horan
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O'Callaghan
5 O'Connell
6 Easterby
7 Wallace
8 Leamy

Lost Ormond · 17-01-2021 6:48pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

O'Sullivan
Herring
Porter

Ryan
Bierne

Ruddock
Leavy
Doris

Murray
R Byrne

Kearney

Henshaw
Hume

Larmour
Keegan

Healy
Kelleher
Bedhlam
Henderson
Coombes
Mcgrath
Sexton
Stockdale

Id like the see the above team..

Only 2 starters over 30. Murray and Kearney both 31.

Not necessarily our best (world cup final/ gun to your head) 15 but a team with an eye to the future.

Plenty of experience on the bench. And guessing ringrose and furlong injured.

I think this will be the 6 nations we realise sexton is not a starter anymore but id hope he would be great coming on with 20 to finish out a game. My worry is this will be only realised at the end of the championship and we've missed an opportunity to look at alternative starting options.. dont think he could last 5 games starting but might last 2 or 3 starting and other 2 or 3 from the bench.

Panels are going to be potentially smaller than usual this year with less call ups baring injury to protect the bubbles so id hope they bring in players who are flexible and can play multiple positions with 2nd row/ backrow and centres and back 3. it could be like a mini world cup with a panel of 32.

Id cut aki loose. Really only plays 12. Passing is very limited and doesn't offer a kicking game defences know what they are going to get from him.

Gibson Park has puzzled me.. was farrell watching rugby for the last few years?? he has been a sub behind mcgrath for 3 or 4 years. Starts for leinster in league after the saracens game and then he is a starter for ireland. He is limited. Id cut him loose too. Cooney can cover 9 & 10 at a push. R Byrne 10 and Centre.

We need to look at other options in the back row too.. stander is really too small for the likes of England. Hard to think of him having a positive impact against them.. (not that many have in past few years)

I just hope that they pick a balanced panel and actually rotate and mix up the squad for games.. no point on flogging some lads like Porter etc. In the autumn internationals and others seeing less than 20 minutes over 6/8 weeks.

I dont see why you would pick Ruddock if talking about eye on the future and talking about players around 30 years of age etc.
People keep saying Aki's passing isnt great or is limited, but from what he does with Connacht its clear it isnt an issue. His kicking game isnt fantastic but he's still definitely one of the strongest options in the centre
Wouldnt rate Gibson Park or Luke McGrath tbh. Would rather we got to look at the Connacht 9s along with Murray and Casey.
Stander too small? No.

mfceiling · 17-01-2021 7:08pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

O'Sullivan
Herring
Porter

Ryan
Bierne

Ruddock
Leavy
Doris

Murray
R Byrne

Kearney

Henshaw
Hume

Larmour
Keegan

Healy
Kelleher
Bedhlam
Henderson
Coombes
Mcgrath
Sexton
Stockdale

Id like the see the above team..

Only 2 starters over 30. Murray and Kearney both 31.

Not necessarily our best (world cup final/ gun to your head) 15 but a team with an eye to the future.

Plenty of experience on the bench. And guessing ringrose and furlong injured.

I think this will be the 6 nations we realise sexton is not a starter anymore but id hope he would be great coming on with 20 to finish out a game. My worry is this will be only realised at the end of the championship and we've missed an opportunity to look at alternative starting options.. dont think he could last 5 games starting but might last 2 or 3 starting and other 2 or 3 from the bench.

Panels are going to be potentially smaller than usual this year with less call ups baring injury to protect the bubbles so id hope they bring in players who are flexible and can play multiple positions with 2nd row/ backrow and centres and back 3. it could be like a mini world cup with a panel of 32.

Id cut aki loose. Really only plays 12. Passing is very limited and doesn't offer a kicking game defences know what they are going to get from him.

Gibson Park has puzzled me.. was farrell watching rugby for the last few years?? he has been a sub behind mcgrath for 3 or 4 years. Starts for leinster in league after the saracens game and then he is a starter for ireland. He is limited. Id cut him loose too. Cooney can cover 9 & 10 at a push. R Byrne 10 and Centre.

We need to look at other options in the back row too.. stander is really too small for the likes of England. Hard to think of him having a positive impact against them.. (not that many have in past few years)

I just hope that they pick a balanced panel and actually rotate and mix up the squad for games.. no point on flogging some lads like Porter etc. In the autumn internationals and others seeing less than 20 minutes over 6/8 weeks.

A team with an eye to the future and you bring Kearney back in?

Must love hardship · 17-01-2021 7:48pm

Festive Life wrote: »

I dont see why you would pick Ruddock if talking about eye on the future and talking about players around 30 years of age etc.
People keep saying Aki's passing isnt great or is limited, but from what he does with Connacht its clear it isnt an issue. His kicking game isnt fantastic but he's still definitely one of the strongest options in the centre
Wouldnt rate Gibson Park or Luke McGrath tbh. Would rather we got to look at the Connacht 9s along with Murray and Casey.
Stander too small? No.

Ruddock arguably is the form back row in Ireland over last 3 or 4 months. Surely deserves to be looked at again at international level and younger than stander and o mahony. Also at 6 3 along with the other 2 back rows I proposed they offer more than say stander or VDF in the line-out offensively and defensively.

Lost Ormond · 17-01-2021 7:51pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

Ruddock arguably is the form back row in Ireland over last 3 or 4 months. Surely deserves to be looked at again at international level and younger than stander and o mahony. Also at 6 3 along with the other 2 back rows I proposed they offer more than say stander or VDF in the line-out offensively and defensively.

There is just 14 months between the 3 of them. Ruddock may be the youngest but the age difference is so small it isnt a reason to pick ruddock as the younger option.

Must love hardship · 17-01-2021 8:03pm

mfceiling wrote: »

A team with an eye to the future and you bring Kearney back in?

Question mrks about alot of alternative options between injuries and defensive frailties..
Kearney has been in super form the last few months and scoring tries for fun. Might be more stable than spectacular but we have been leaking at of territory from errors in the back 3.. im just suggesting give him a shot and let someone play themselves into form to take the Jersey from him..

Lowe - defensively and injured
Earls - injury profile and contract?
Stockdale - defenfensively
Lowry - untried.
Conway- injured?

Must love hardship · 17-01-2021 8:18pm

Festive Life wrote: »

There is just 14 months between the 3 of them. Ruddock may be the youngest but the age difference is so small it isnt a reason to pick ruddock as the younger option.

Firstly you mentioned his age. I just pointed out he was younger than two of the incumbents. Both are also in contract negotiations and may well be gone to France in 6 months.

14 months hardship on the body of a professional rugby player is alot. At times the last 2 years o mahony and stander have looked flogged to a standstill.

I still think he deserves a shot. As I said maybe not to start every match.. but as a rotatable option. More of a line out option than stander and we have been struggling there and well able to carry just as well as stander.

thomond2006 · 17-01-2021 9:25pm

bilston wrote: »

I'd go for a bit of consistency

Team for Wales has to be...

15 Dempsey
14 Horgan
13 O'Driscoll
12 D'Arcy
11 Hickie
10 O'Gara
9 Stringer
1 Horan
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O'Callaghan
5 O'Connell
6 Easterby
7 Wallace
8 Leamy

Is there any chance this can actually happen?

stephen_n · 17-01-2021 10:35pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is there any chance this can actually happen?

Probably wouldn’t be much slower now than he was when he was playing.

thomond2006 · 17-01-2021 10:44pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Probably wouldn’t be much slower now than he was when he was playing.

Shut up, Buer.

Lost Ormond · 17-01-2021 11:46pm

Must love hardship wrote: »

Firstly you mentioned his age. I just pointed out he was younger than two of the incumbents. Both are also in contract negotiations and may well be gone to France in 6 months.

14 months hardship on the body of a professional rugby player is alot. At times the last 2 years o mahony and stander have looked flogged to a standstill.

I still think he deserves a shot. As I said maybe not to start every match.. but as a rotatable option. More of a line out option than stander and we have been struggling there and well able to carry just as well as stander.

You have only 2 starters over 30 which doesnt make sense to get rid of virtually everyone at that stage of their career.

What sides who have done very well in a world cup have done what you suggest in years prior to the competition.

gally74 · 17-01-2021 11:46pm

I wonder when Pat Lam will show up

Must love hardship · 18-01-2021 12:04am

Festive Life wrote: »

You have only 2 starters over 30 which doesnt make sense to get rid of virtually everyone at that stage of their career.

What sides who have done very well in a world cup have done what you suggest in years prior to the competition.

Do you hold up our current tactic of selection at world cups as a beacon of success??

The world cup isn't until 2023. Its not on in 2 weeks. Would be great to see an irish team try and build a larger player pool towards a world cup.

Lost Ormond · 18-01-2021 12:19am

Must love hardship wrote: »

Do you hold up our current tactic of selection at world cups as a beacon of success??

The world cup isn't until 2023. Its not on in 2 weeks. Would be great to see an irish team try and build a larger player pool towards a world cup.

Im not saying anything about how we did previously at world cups but the teams that have won them havent done as you said and we did build bigger player pool towards a world cup last time. We did it quite well but we still messed up.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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