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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen
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Yep man of the match against Russia and played better than POM on the other flank, so who gets the nod in the big match? Reputation...
CJ won man of the match the week before v. Scotland!He plays at a consistently high level. How has Stander, POM and VDF done against Saracens or England? Answer they get outmuscled every time... Maybe trying Ruddock might not be such a bad move...
The one game that I can see that Ruddock played against England, Ireland lost. You will need to tell me how well Ruddock did against Saracens.0 -
CJ won man of the match the week before v. Scotland!
The one game that I can see that Ruddock played against England, Ireland lost. You will need to tell me how well Ruddock did against Saracens.
CJ won motm and kept his place, Ruddock wins it and gets dropped...
Obviously Ruddock didn't play against Saracens, might have made a difference if he did but that's on the coaches0 -
CJ won motm and kept his place, Ruddock wins it and gets dropped...
Obviously Ruddock didn't play against Saracens, might have made a difference if he did but that's on the coaches
So, neither the Ireland coaches or the Leinster coaches are picking Ruddock in the big games! And you know better!0 -
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I doubt we beat England and France. We just aren't clinical enough or good enough.
Whether it's a talent deficit or a game plan deficit, IDK.
Both England and France are bringing up young talent and seem streets ahead.
My belief is we're constrained by the central contract system. It does keep players in Ireland, but it also means that for the duration of the contract, they are in the squad.
I Don't know how to get around the system, as the best players need to be retained. I think the negative result is that players on central contracts are looked upon more favorable than others. That is detrimental to the team, imo.
Regardless, we just don't have world class players. There is a dearth of top class talent. England have a handful of world class players atm. We have nobody as good as Curry, Underhill and Itoje. They're young and better than anyone we have. Add in Tualagi and Farrell and there's a glut of world class talent.
Our best players would be Furlong and Ryan. Both have been world class in the past, imo. Obviously Sexton was world class, but that's in the past.
So, how to we keep up? To stay competitive and win I think that lads should be selected on form, regardless of contract size. That would mean that Healy would be cut loose and Sexton soon too. The options are there to make the squad younger and perhaps build for the future, without sacrificing too much.
As everyone sees, our biggest problems are Hooker and Sextons successor. These are fixable and should be focused on.
If Farrell continues to bring in new blood and evolve our play, I think we will be back at the top of our game. By years end, I believe we're going to be heading in the right direction. I know the 6nations is crucial for us but, it's also an opportunity. Last year's tournament was telling. Farrell attempted to expand the style of our game and he did bring in new players. But, we weren't good and were easily beaten by England and France didn't really have to get out of 2nd gear to beat us.
Although, I hope Farrell is afforded the full four years of his contract, I can see the IRFU moving on if the 6nations is a disaster. That would be a mistake, imo.
It's early days and we do appear to be looking for the right lads to bring in. The results are somewhat mixed and it's disappointing. Rome wasn't built in a day! Our focus should be the rwc imo. Time to shake off the past and move forward.
I think Burns has to get a look. I would start him against Wales. EOS also. Coombes and Ruddock must also be involved, although Ruddock is 30, I would bring him in.
Doris should be given his opportunity and I think Keenan should also.
Keenan is miles ahead of Stockdale and Lowe as far as tackling goes. They are so good attack wise, but very pedestrian on the otherside of the game.
I would also bring JOB and Boyle into the extended squad.
A lot to think about. But, it will benefit us long term.0 -
They are winning a lot of them. Leinster are top of their pool in the European Cup.
You asked about Ruddock and Saracens, I think in hindsight the coaches would have played him.
Leinster are top of there pool thanks to big games from Ruddock. Maybe they've seen the error in their ways.
Ireland aren't beating any top teams...0 -
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose0
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Dave Kilcoyne Is back in the Munster squad, on the bench for the Leinster game tomorrow.
How do you think it will work out between Kilcoyne and Healy for Ireland over the 6N?
I like Healy but I think his ability to contribute in the loose has been severely diminished in the last year or two. He’s still great in tight play. When Leinster or Ireland are 5m from the opposition line, I always feel they couldn’t have a better loosehead. But I think he’s ripe to be replaced.
Kilcoyne is only a year younger and I think he looked a lot younger around the pitch when he played last - but that was a year ago.
In the short-medium term, Ireland needs a prop who can really grab the jersey from the two of them.
But in the short term, who do you think will be the main man in the 6N?0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Dave Kilcoyne Is back in the Munster squad, on the bench for the Leinster game tomorrow.
How do you think it will work out between Kilcoyne and Healy for Ireland over the 6N?
I like Healy but I think his ability to contribute in the loose has been severely diminished in the last year or two. He’s still great in tight play. When Leinster or Ireland are 5m from the opposition line, I always feel they couldn’t have a better loosehead. But I think he’s ripe to be replaced.
Kilcoyne is only a year younger and I think he looked a lot younger around the pitch when he played last - but that was a year ago.
In the short-medium term, Ireland needs a prop who can really grab the jersey from the two of them.
But in the short term, who do you think will be the main man in the 6N?
Kilcoyne best suited to bench impact, for me. Think I'd start Wycherley ahead of him for Munster and have Eric O'Sullivan or Peter Dooley starting for Ireland.
You could have a massive impact forwards bench with Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Porter, Baird and Coombes.0 -
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I don't mind who starts but at this stage we can't have both in the 23.0
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Richie_Rich89 wrote: »Kilcoyne best suited to bench impact, for me. Think I'd start Wycherley ahead of him for Munster and have Eric O'Sullivan or Peter Dooley starting for Ireland.
You could have a massive impact forwards bench with Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Porter, Baird and Coombes.
I like Dooley but, he's not an international talent imo. I consider him as a good reserve, like Ed Byrne. James Cronin may be in with a shout if he performs really well.
I do think EOS is our best option right now.0 -
Sexton has played 8 games this season and has been forced off injured in 5 of them. The guy is nearly 36 and I fear his body is giving in. A similar thing happened to Isa at the same age.
I've got a feeling that, be it enforced or by choice, Sexton wont be our first choice 10 by the end of the championship.
Having said that, it's Great to see guys like Ryan, Beirne, Doris, Murray, Henshaw, Larmour and Keenan all hitting form at an important time. Haley and Daly I thought were both really good for munster tonight.0 -
Sexton has played 8 games this season and has been forced off injured in 5 of them. The guy is nearly 36 and I fear his body is giving in. A similar thing happened to Isa at the same age.
I've got a feeling that, be it enforced or by choice, Sexton wont be our first choice 10 by the end of the championship.
Having said that, it's Great to see guys like Ryan, Beirne, Doris, Murray, Henshaw, Larmour and Keenan all hitting form at an important time. Haley and Daly I thought were both really good for munster tonight.
No.2 and No.10 is where we will struggle in the 6N. At this stage we should be using Sextion as a sub to see out the last 15mins of games. Against the bigger teams like England and France I fear for him as a starter. He's a once in a lifetime player and a huge competitor but that trait at this stage puts him in the face of serious harm.
The 23 I think we'll see in the 6N:
Keenan
Earls
Ringrose
Henshaw
Stockdale (if fit)
Sexton
Murray
Doris
POM
Stander
Ryan
Beirne
Porter
Herring
Healy
EOS
Kelleher
J. Ryan
Roux
Coombes
JGP
Burns
Larmour0 -
almostover wrote: »No.2 and No.10 is where we will struggle in the 6N.
I'd add No.1 to that too. Cian Healy gets absolutely dominated in every single collision. Kilcoyne is turning 33 and wont get any better. E.O'S is by far our best LH but for whatever reason Farrell doesn't rate him. I think Ed Byrne is a better player than people say he is and is Leinsters best LH, hes a good player but hes not exactly world class. Milne is a fine prospect but is a couple years off. I'd be concerned about Whycherleys size but hopefully he can prove me wrong.0 -
I doubt we beat England and France. We just aren't clinical enough or good enough.
Whether it's a talent deficit or a game plan deficit, IDK.
Both England and France are bringing up young talent and seem streets ahead.
My belief is we're constrained by the central contract system. It does keep players in Ireland, but it also means that for the duration of the contract, they are in the squad.
I Don't know how to get around the system, as the best players need to be retained. I think the negative result is that players on central contracts are looked upon more favorable than others. That is detrimental to the team, imo.
Regardless, we just don't have world class players. There is a dearth of top class talent. England have a handful of world class players atm. We have nobody as good as Curry, Underhill and Itoje. They're young and better than anyone we have. Add in Tualagi and Farrell and there's a glut of world class talent.
Our best players would be Furlong and Ryan. Both have been world class in the past, imo. Obviously Sexton was world class, but that's in the past.
So, how to we keep up? To stay competitive and win I think that lads should be selected on form, regardless of contract size. That would mean that Healy would be cut loose and Sexton soon too. The options are there to make the squad younger and perhaps build for the future, without sacrificing too much.
As everyone sees, our biggest problems are Hooker and Sextons successor. These are fixable and should be focused on.
If Farrell continues to bring in new blood and evolve our play, I think we will be back at the top of our game. By years end, I believe we're going to be heading in the right direction. I know the 6nations is crucial for us but, it's also an opportunity. Last year's tournament was telling. Farrell attempted to expand the style of our game and he did bring in new players. But, we weren't good and were easily beaten by England and France didn't really have to get out of 2nd gear to beat us.
Although, I hope Farrell is afforded the full four years of his contract, I can see the IRFU moving on if the 6nations is a disaster. That would be a mistake, imo.
It's early days and we do appear to be looking for the right lads to bring in. The results are somewhat mixed and it's disappointing. Rome wasn't built in a day! Our focus should be the rwc imo. Time to shake off the past and move forward.
I think Burns has to get a look. I would start him against Wales. EOS also. Coombes and Ruddock must also be involved, although Ruddock is 30, I would bring him in.
Doris should be given his opportunity and I think Keenan should also.
Keenan is miles ahead of Stockdale and Lowe as far as tackling goes. They are so good attack wise, but very pedestrian on the otherside of the game.
I would also bring JOB and Boyle into the extended squad.
A lot to think about. But, it will benefit us long term.
I don’t know what game you watched that left the conclusion that they are streets ahead, are Ireland allowed lose a match and for it simply down to us being beaten by the better side on the day?0 -
I'd like to see something like this against Wales:
O'Sullivan, Herring, Porter
Beirne, Ryan
Ruddock, O'Mahony, Stander
Murray, Burns
Henshaw, Ringrose,
Stockdale, Keenan, Earls
O'Byrne, Kilcoyne, Bealham, Dillane, Coombes/ Doris, Cooney/Blade, Sexton, Daly/Larmour0 -
I don't think Sexton should be in consideration as a bench option. Either he starts or is out of the 23. If the starter got injured after five minutes could you trust Sexton to play the rest of the game? Hardly.0
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UAEguy2020 wrote: »I don’t know what game you watched that left the conclusion that they are streets ahead, are Ireland allowed lose a match and for it simply down to us being beaten by the better side on the day?
Lol, didn't you watch England win the collisions? Physically beat us? Not just this past November, but itsbecoming a habit!
France stepped out of 2nd gear for a couple of moments and put us to the sword.
Obviously, we were beaten by the better team on the day. Against England, comfortably.
Our mindset should be, we're the better team, and we will win!0 -
Lol, didn't you watch England win the collisions? Physically beat us? Not just this past November, but itsbecoming a habit!
France stepped out of 2nd gear for a couple of moments and put us to the sword.
Obviously, we were beaten by the better team on the day. Against England, comfortably.
Our mindset should be, we're the better team, and we will win!
France didn’t step out of second gear, they just played like they have throughout this year. Ireland just went to **** in the second half and France capitalized. If the two teams swapped positions we wouldn’t have said we were streets ahead of France.
We get beat physically because we are soft as piss , size means nothing and that’s why I’m sick of people on here talking about players not being big enough...I wish size was the problem but sadly they can be as big as they want, it’s pointless if they are so weak mentally when it comes to contact.
At times I watched Ireland against England and wonder where the commitment has gone, you watch some of the defensive sets England put it it was like they were men possessed and would kill their granny if it meant stopping Ireland scoring a try whereas you don’t see any Irish player go to that length to stop England.
The reality is England and France have had more time together as a group of players ( both coaches were at the RWC with their squads) whereas we are obviously in transition and it shows as we are consistently mixing the good with the bad. You can see as a result that England and France are much more confident in their abilities and when that happens the 50/50s really start going your way whereas for us not so much.
What Ireland need more than ever now is momentum which hopefully will come in the first 2 games in the 6N, win those and we are set up nicely.0 -
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UAEguy2020 wrote: »France didn’t step out of second gear, they just played like they have throughout this year. Ireland just went to **** in the second half and France capitalized. If the two teams swapped positions we wouldn’t have said we were streets ahead of France.
We get beat physically because we are soft as piss , size means nothing and that’s why I’m sick of people on here talking about players not being big enough...I wish size was the problem but sadly they can be as big as they want, it’s pointless if they are so weak mentally when it comes to contact.
At times I watched Ireland against England and wonder where the commitment has gone, you watch some of the defensive sets England put it it was like they were men possessed and would kill their granny if it meant stopping Ireland scoring a try whereas you don’t see any Irish player go to that length to stop England.
The reality is England and France have had more time together as a group of players ( both coaches were at the RWC with their squads) whereas we are obviously in transition and it shows as we are consistently mixing the good with the bad. You can see as a result that England and France are much more confident in their abilities and when that happens the 50/50s really start going your way whereas for us not so much.
What Ireland need more than ever now is momentum which hopefully will come in the first 2 games in the 6N, win those and we are set up nicely.
Our issues are serious enough tbf. Sexton and his successor are huge atm. I can't see Sexton surviving this 6nations. Physically that is. Which is why I would give Burns the start. I'd start Sexton against France the followers. But, the Italian, Scotland and Wales matches are a chance to give someone a run.
I've said before that this will be Healy's hurrah for Ireland. Once again I think it would be foolish not to try someone else!
If we don't up the Physicality against teams like England, we are bound to lose.0 -
I doubt we beat England and France. We just aren't clinical enough or good enough.
Whether it's a talent deficit or a game plan deficit, IDK.
Both England and France are bringing up young talent and seem streets ahead.
My belief is we're constrained by the central contract system. It does keep players in Ireland, but it also means that for the duration of the contract, they are in the squad.
I Don't know how to get around the system, as the best players need to be retained. I think the negative result is that players on central contracts are looked upon more favorable than others. That is detrimental to the team, imo.
Regardless, we just don't have world class players. There is a dearth of top class talent. England have a handful of world class players atm. We have nobody as good as Curry, Underhill and Itoje. They're young and better than anyone we have. Add in Tualagi and Farrell and there's a glut of world class talent.
Our best players would be Furlong and Ryan. Both have been world class in the past, imo. Obviously Sexton was world class, but that's in the past.
So, how to we keep up? To stay competitive and win I think that lads should be selected on form, regardless of contract size. That would mean that Healy would be cut loose and Sexton soon too. The options are there to make the squad younger and perhaps build for the future, without sacrificing too much.
As everyone sees, our biggest problems are Hooker and Sextons successor. These are fixable and should be focused on.
If Farrell continues to bring in new blood and evolve our play, I think we will be back at the top of our game. By years end, I believe we're going to be heading in the right direction. I know the 6nations is crucial for us but, it's also an opportunity. Last year's tournament was telling. Farrell attempted to expand the style of our game and he did bring in new players. But, we weren't good and were easily beaten by England and France didn't really have to get out of 2nd gear to beat us.
Although, I hope Farrell is afforded the full four years of his contract, I can see the IRFU moving on if the 6nations is a disaster. That would be a mistake, imo.
It's early days and we do appear to be looking for the right lads to bring in. The results are somewhat mixed and it's disappointing. Rome wasn't built in a day! Our focus should be the rwc imo. Time to shake off the past and move forward.
I think Burns has to get a look. I would start him against Wales. EOS also. Coombes and Ruddock must also be involved, although Ruddock is 30, I would bring him in.
Doris should be given his opportunity and I think Keenan should also.
Keenan is miles ahead of Stockdale and Lowe as far as tackling goes. They are so good attack wise, but very pedestrian on the otherside of the game.
I would also bring JOB and Boyle into the extended squad.
A lot to think about. But, it will benefit us long term.
Completely agree.
I was thinking about a potential England bench the other day when I saw their squad, and in my opinion most, if not all of them would start for Ireland.
LCD
Genge
Will Stuart - Porter and Furlong ahead of him
Jonny Hill
Ben Earl
Randall - Would be on the bench and close to starting for Ire, but Murray played well this eve.
Odogwu
Malins
We're in a bad spot in comparison to them in fairness, they are pumping out quality players in every position, as are France.
I agree with focus on RWC, we have had two years of exceptional U20 sides. We need to start filtering these through into provinces and give them exposure at the top level to see if they can kick on.0 -
Someone else’s grass is always greener as they say, half of them aren’t even tested at this level so saying they would be a starter for us is pushing it.0
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Our issues are serious enough tbf. Sexton and his successor are huge atm. I can't see Sexton surviving this 6nations. Physically that is. Which is why I would give Burns the start. I'd start Sexton against France the followers. But, the Italian, Scotland and Wales matches are a chance to give someone a run.
I've said before that this will be Healy's hurrah for Ireland. Once again I think it would be foolish not to try someone else!
If we don't up the Physicality against teams like England, we are bound to lose.
We need to give a successor a run, we also need to give a successor time to settle into the Irish shirt, one other issue we have compared to other countries is we seem to expect our young players to be world class the second they step up and if they aren’t we want them cast to the side instantly, someone like Byrne or Healy isn’t going to just step up and be Sexton on their debut yet we’ll **** on them if they aren’t.
We need to give someone else a run I agree but again like 10 we need to give a player time to settle in, I would like Eric O’Sullivan, if he can hold up the scrum he would be perfect as his all round game is excellent.
We need to show up physically but more gives into it than size, we need to show up mentally also as it’s clear something goes on for us when we play England as I haven’t seen any other 6N side that get bludgeoned like we do and that was never an issue pre 2019 with virtually the same pack which leads me to believe that the game in 2019 in the 6N had a bad effect on us.
Before we blood players we need to create an environment that allows them to thrive, that’s what we did in 2017/2018 and England & France are currently doing, because the reality is when you have so many players playing under par it really hard to see a change here or there making any sort of difference, we simply need momentum and once that happens we can start really blooding players in.0 -
Impossible to call the starting back line for Ireland at the moment.
I could see Hugo Keenan retaining the 15 jersey. Lowe is nailed on if fit but he's missed a lot of rugby.
Larmour v Stockdale?
Aki or Henshaw at 12? Ringrose to me is also nailed on but he hasn't had much rugby either.
Murray Sexton look likely to be the starting halves. Murray was Munster's best player yesterday, looks back to his best.0 -
Henshaw is first name on the team sheet in the back line. He's more nailed on that Sexton or Murray currently.
I don't think we're going to see much change at all in the selection. Questions over the hooker and the wingers. Rest of the team is very likely to be all but chosen already.
The fact that Leinster didn't lose a line out last night is a positive (2 were far from clean wins though) which might tempt Farrell to go back to Kelleher but I'd expect Herring to hang on and deservedly so.
The only other question is whether they go with Earls or Larmour, I think. Larmour more suited to coming in against a tired team from the 23 spot.
I would expect a team of Healy, Herring, Porter, Ryan, Beirne, Stander, POM, Doris, Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls or Larmour and Keenan.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Impossible to call the starting back line for Ireland at the moment.
I could see Hugo Keenan retaining the 15 jersey. Lowe is nailed on if fit but he's missed a lot of rugby.
Larmour v Stockdale?
Aki or Henshaw at 12? Ringrose to me is also nailed on but he hasn't had much rugby either.
Murray Sexton look likely to be the starting halves. Murray was Munster's best player yesterday, looks back to his best.
I'm not so sure Lowe is nailed on, Venjur. He could well start, but I don't know if it's clear cut. He was excellent against Wales but really poor against England. Earls is also in the conversation.
Henshaw is ahead of Aki, for me. He's been excellent, really good under the high ball and seems to have added a try threat as well. He just offers a lot more variety than Aki.0 -
The Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose, Farrell situation is constantly evolving. The ranking is totally dependent on form. Ringrose lost his starting place before the World Cup and played his way back in with great performances. Aki was ahead of He shaw a in the autumn games and Henshaw is in great form at the moment so he’ll probably be the starting 12 with Ringrose. Farrell is almost always the backup, but he’s a good backup, not a big step down if the others are unavailable or need a rest.
I honestly don’t think there a huge difference. We don’t have the kind of standout centres like Darcy-O’Driscoll. But Henshaw is on great form And Ringrose was doing well before the jaw injury.
Lowe will have to earn his place. I usually don’t advocate for playing older player, but Earls is doing very well at the moment. I think he was underused last night and it’s criminal that they didn’t exploit earls and daly vs JGP on the wing for 20mins.0 -
I'm not so sure Lowe is nailed on, Venjur. He could well start, but I don't know if it's clear cut. He was excellent against Wales but really poor against England. Earls is also in the conversation.
Henshaw is ahead of Aki, for me. He's been excellent, really good under the high ball and seems to have added a try threat as well. He just offers a lot more variety than Aki.
Earls might be in the conversation but I think that would be pretty short sighted. His form has been ok but he's reaching the end of his career and whilst he isn't the only player in that category - he's the only player in that category with a lot of competition.
Lowe will start if fit. As soon as he was available for Ireland he was first choice and despite the England game not being his best display, there is no way he will have fallen down the pecking order to the degree that he has drifted out of selection. We don't have another player like him, he is fairly nailed on in my opinion.
I find it hard to discount Aki. Maybe I'm a bit blinkered because I'm a massive fan of his - but he brings flanker levels of power and aggression into contact and still has great hands and terrific rugby IQ. Henshaw does not share his natural athleticism, albeit Henshaw has a much superior aerial skillset and is a better distributor. Henshaw is probably a more effective defender also. Given his lack of gametime - I wonder could Ringrose lose out? He's first choice for me out of Irelands centre options but he hasn't a lot of rugby and looked a bit rusty last night.0 -
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