Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

VANG1

Ross added a string to his bow playing very well at 13

aloooof

VANG1 wrote: »

Ross added a string to his bow playing very well at 13

I don't think that's of much value in the context for Ireland tho. It'd take an enormous, on-field injury list if he was to ever appear there for us.

Downlinz

Wegians89 wrote: »

With the interpros over and 6 nations looming, what sort of squad to people think will be picked? Any surprises?

Transitioning to a new number 10 is going to be Farrell's big challenge this Six Nations, who that player is going to be could be anyones guess but I hope he tries out a few players.

The Inbetween is mine

Funny how the narrative has changed in a few short weeks from "if Sexton is the best player, ,he starts at the next world cup" ..to
"Who do we start now in the upcoming 6n instead of Sexton"

Former Former Former

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Funny how the narrative has changed in a few short weeks from "if Sexton is the best player, ,he starts at the next world cup" ..to
"Who do we start now in the upcoming 6n instead of Sexton"

I don't think so. All these discussions are about who the understudies will be.

TRC10

Burns didn't have his best game at the RDS but he wasnt awful. And hes looked by far the most solid and reliable 10 this season. He took his chance with both hands in November and hes looked really good for Ulster this season.

Friday was also the first time Sexton wasnt forced off with an injury since the France game in Paris. I just cant see his body lasting the full 6 nations. I think the best role for him now is to be a 20 minute player off the bench to close out games. I'd much rather that than him starting and hoping we can get 60 minutes out of him, which is what it is currently.

The Inbetween is mine

Former Former Former wrote: »

I don't think so. All these discussions are about who the understudies will be.

Some yes,... All.. definitely not...take the post above my original reply as a for instance

phily2002

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Go with Healy and hope he doesn’t have to tackle anyone, like that Rob Kearney effort he put in on Dillane.

In fairness JJ was second in the whole pro 14 for tackles missed last year and is still falling off them this year, he missed 2 in the one phase last night. He has the odd good game but is not international level.

lawrencesummers

phily2002 wrote: »

In fairness JJ was second in the whole pro 14 for tackles missed last year and is still falling off them this year, he missed 2 in the one phase last night. He has the odd good game but is not international level.

I didn’t say he was international level, just that he is currently the best performing 10 in the country, not that it’s relevant though because Sexton could play worse and worse in the nex two weeks and he will still start against France.

On form Sexton shouldn’t be an automatic starter for Ireland, yet some people here think he will be going on a Lions tour.

Before the Connacht game Murray was in the same boat, and he showed in that game that his form is good.

VANG1

Sexton still the front runner, the pretenders need to up their game, they have one good game followed by mediocrity. Some of their good games have been against not so great opposition. One of them needs to make the jump to consistently play at a high level, in attack, defence and kicking.

The Inbetween is mine

I am wondering if a call will be made to Paddy Jackson to return to these shores next season by 1 of the provinces

Lost Ormond

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

I am wondering if a call will be made to Paddy Jackson to return to these shores next season by 1 of the provinces

zero chance of that happening.

thomond2006

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

I am wondering if a call will be made to Paddy Jackson to return to these shores next season by 1 of the provinces

There's more chance of Trevor Brennan signing for Ulster.

The Inbetween is mine

I guess this shows all the good, and bad of Sextons ultra competitive nature...a very Roy Keane figure...
want him beside you... not across from you.
https://punditarena.com/rugby/eoin-harte/johnny-sexton-fight-u20s-player/?amp

Dubinusa

VDF has really put himself front and center. Brilliant this week. I think he's the best 7 we have!

Eod100

Overview of the contract situation here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/busy-time-ahead-as-players-in-ireland-face-new-contract-discussions-1.4459677

Best guess at Ireland 23 against Wales (if it goes ahead). The Leinster v Munster game is going to be key for guys like Larmour, VDF / Connors / Tadgh Beirne, Lowe, Furlong and a few others to prove fitness and form:

Cian Healy
Ronan Kelleher
Andrew Porter
Ryan Baird
James Ryan
CJ Stander
POM
Doris
Murray
Sexton
Larmour
Aki
Ringrose
Lowe
Stockdale

Herring
Kilcoyne
Bealham
Henderson
VDF
Gibson Park
Burns
Henshaw

Plenty of close calls. Could see Henderson start but I think Baird's form has been better. I suspect Larmour will have one more run out and Lowe if recovered will be straight back in. Furlong with no match time may not even make the wider squad but if he does and performs in training he's a test Lion so anything could happen.

Garda Kenny

I’d have Henderson ahead of Baird. Baird and Ryan as the two lineout jumpers spells problems compounded by Kelleher throwing. Herring for Kelleher. I’d also have Keenan ahead of Stockdale

Garda Kenny

Garda Kenny wrote: »

I’d have Henderson ahead of Baird. Baird and Ryan as the two lineout jumpers spells problems compounded by Kelleher throwing. Herring for Kelleher. I’d also have Keenan ahead of Stockdale

Ryan, POM, Doris should be fine from a line out perspective. Herring's defence is a little suspect for me and he's just not as dynamic in the loose. Henderson / Baird is a close call in my opinion but Henderson would be getting in on experience rather than form.

Keenan is an interesting one. Has come through with injuries to others so unknown the exact pecking order. He's done little wrong and has on a few occasions been our best back 3.

Paul Smeenus

Baird's form has been better because Henderson hasn't played since the autumn.

Although "not playing" would be markedly better than Baird's performance for the As.

We had a lineout with Ryan, POM and Doris before Henderson came back, and it wasn't good enough.

I want to see Baird come in ASAP, but he's not as good as Henderson yet. And when he is, Ryan, who hasn't been very impressive himself for about a year now, had better get to grips with calling.

Paul Smeenus

It's academic, anyway - Hendo's injured.

Don't think Stockdale should be starting. Possibly not in the 23 at all.

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

Ryan, POM, Doris should be fine from a line out perspective. Herring's defence is a little suspect for me and he's just not as dynamic in the loose. Henderson / Baird is a close call in my opinion but Henderson would be getting in on experience rather than form.

Keenan is an interesting one. Has come through with injuries to others so unknown the exact pecking order. He's done little wrong and has on a few occasions been our best back 3.

I think the Keenan call largely comes down to what side of the argument you're on with Stockdale at 15.

Personally think we should stick with him; he's got a huge boot, and has show some brilliant counter-attacking from there, with some brilliant passing also. It's really harsh on Keenan, tho.

I think I'd start Henshaw at 12 and maybe Keenan in the 23 jersey.

UAEguy2020

Former Former Former wrote: »

Criiiinge.

Paul O'Connell would be absolutely mortified reading this. He always showed his opponents huge respect and he'd be embarrassed if he knew people were slating one of the greatest locks ever in some confused attempt to defend him.

Johnson was a phenomenal player, better than O'Connell, and a phenomenal captain, better than O'Connell.

The only relevance of any of this is that great players do not always make great coaches. No-one is having a go at POC.

He wasn’t better than O’Connell, but was a phenomenal player.

The Inbetween is mine

Noooooo.... please...for the love of the Kearney Brothers.... can we let this die

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Baird's form has been better because Henderson hasn't played since the autumn.

Although "not playing" would be markedly better than Baird's performance for the As.

We had a lineout with Ryan, POM and Doris before Henderson came back, and it wasn't good enough.

I want to see Baird come in ASAP, but he's not as good as Henderson yet. And when he is, Ryan, who hasn't been very impressive himself for about a year now, had better get to grips with calling.

You see when Henderson and Ryan start together Ireland almost always play well. I dont know why people haven't picked up on this yet. The problem is Henderson seems to always be injured or suspended these days.

I haven't seen massive amounts of Baird, mainly highlight reels where looks the part. I did see him on Friday in the A match and he was at best the 4th best back 5 forward on the pitch behind McCann, Izzy and Dunne. Not that an A match is in anyway relevant to the 6Ns. Hopefully he starts next weekend against Munster. Him versus Beirne would be an interesting watch.

molloyjh

Injury and fitness returning from injury is going to play a big part in selection here obviously. Will Furlong be back and even if he is will he be even close to match fit? Will Hendo be back? Ringrose? Lowe? Kelleher? Some big questions there.

I think the IRFU could be missing a trick by not arranging a game between Connacht and Ulster. Aki for example hasn't played any rugby in 4 weeks now. No game next week means 7 weeks out before the 6Ns. Thats a long time. Add 2 weeks on to that for Henderson. I'm not sure if hes expected back by next weekend or if thats too optimistic. Burns will be 4 weeks without game time. If Ringrose is injured we need someone to partner Henshaw in the centre. And the only one with any real game time ahead of Wales is likely to be Farrell. What if he or Henshaw gets injured? We have cover at lock but centre we're light in, and we saw the issues a lack of creativity at 12 or 13 can cause us.

Assuming we have most of those guys back fit I can see something like:

Healy Herring Porter
Baird Ryan
Stander Doris POM

Murray Sexton
Henshaw Ringrose
Stockdale Keenan Earls

Kelleher, EOS, Furlong, Henderson, VDF, JGP, Burns, Larmour

thomond2006

If Ben Healy is deemed ready then I think you put him in the 23. None of the current backups are inspiring confidence and at least with Healy there is some upside. I'd hope that one of the Munster hookers gets a look-in to the squad as if the lineout woes continue there needs to be a new option available. If we're in a win-now mode with the likes of Sexton, there's little reason to not put in a Rhys Marshall or KOB.

molloyjh wrote: »

I think the IRFU could be missing a trick by not arranging a game between Connacht and Ulster.

Connacht are playing next weekend at least. Their previously postponed game against Ospreys is being played on Sunday 24th.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

You see when Henderson and Ryan start together Ireland almost always play well. I dont know why people haven't kicked up on this yet. The problem is Henderson seems to always be injured or suspended these days.

I haven't seen massive amounts of Baird, mainly highlight reels where looks the part. I did see him on Friday in the A match and he was at best the 4th best back 5 forward on the pitch behind McCann, Izzy and Dunne. Not that an A match is in anyway relevant to the 6Ns. Hopefully he starts next weekend against Munster. Him versus Beirne would be an interesting watch.

Baird has been excellent for Leinster since his debut. Came on vs Saracens and didn't just not look out of place, he made a significant (positive) impact on the game. I think the guy is the real deal. I'd still have Henderson ahead of him now, but Baird should be targeting that starting green shirt in the short to medium term. Hes good enough for it.

The good news either way is that Ryan seems to be starting to find his old form again. He's been markedly better the last few outings than for the previous 12+ months. Having him, Hendo and Baird in our 23 is potentially going to be a very good place to be in the next year or so. Lets just hope we get to see the 3 of them fit and firing at the same time!

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Ben Healy is deemed ready then I think you put him in the 23. None of the current backups are inspiring confidence and at least with Healy there is some upside.

Healy should def be in the 6Ns squad. If he shows in training he's up for it then great. Lets see how he goes.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Connacht are playing next weekend at least. Their previously postponed game against Ospreys is being played on Sunday 24th.

For some reason UR don't have that on their fixture list. That changes things so. It brings Aki back into the conversation more. Although Henshaw is still ahead of him at 12 for me. He's been going really well the last few months.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

You see when Henderson and Ryan start together Ireland almost always play well. I dont know why people haven't picked up on this yet. The problem is Henderson seems to always be injured or suspended these days.

I haven't seen massive amounts of Baird, mainly highlight reels where looks the part. I did see him on Friday in the A match and he was at best the 4th best back 5 forward on the pitch behind McCann, Izzy and Dunne. Not that an A match is in anyway relevant to the 6Ns. Hopefully he starts next weekend against Munster. Him versus Beirne would be an interesting watch.

Leinster had an absolute must-win game against Ulster a few weeks ago and he was nowhere to be seen in the 23. Was he injured? Because if not, I'd have serious concerns about a second row pairing (him and Ryan) that Cullen wouldn't play in a crunch match against Ulster, lining out against Wales in the 6N.