Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Kauto

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose, Farrell situation is constantly evolving. The ranking is totally dependent on form. Ringrose lost his starting place before the World Cup and played his way back in with great performances. Aki was ahead of He shaw a in the autumn games and Henshaw is in great form at the moment so he’ll probably be the starting 12 with Ringrose. Farrell is almost always the backup, but he’s a good backup, not a big step down if the others are unavailable or need a rest.

I honestly don’t think there a huge difference. We don’t have the kind of standout centres like Darcy-O’Driscoll. But Henshaw is on great form And Ringrose was doing well before the jaw injury.

Lowe will have to earn his place. I usually don’t advocate for playing older player, but Earls is doing very well at the moment. I think he was underused last night and it’s criminal that they didn’t exploit earls and daly vs JGP on the wing for 20mins.

If all centres are fit and in form its Henshaw and Ringrose by some distance.

salmocab

Kauto wrote: »

If all centres are fit and in form its Henshaw and Ringrose by some distance.

Ah I think that’s a push, Aki has never really let Ireland down and is quite consistent

El_Duderino 09

Kauto wrote: »

If all centres are fit and in form its Henshaw and Ringrose by some distance.

On current form, yes, that’s the order. When they were all fit after lockdown Aki was ahead of Henshaw. Form fluctuates over time.

UAEguy2020

My Irish back line would be

9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 Henshaw
13 Ringrose
14 Keenan
15 Stockdale

Lowe & Larmour haven’t played enough or done enough to break the back three combo I’ve selected plus Aki hasn’t played enough also.

The Inbetween is mine

I think Sexton starts the 6 nations .. but by the end he no longer holds the 10 jersey.
You just can't have a player being carried and constantly coming off injured...this 6 nations is his Ireland swansong

Pudsy33

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

My Irish back line would be

9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 Henshaw
13 Ringrose
14 Keenan
15 Stockdale

Lowe & Larmour haven’t played enough or done enough to break the back three combo I’ve selected plus Aki hasn’t played enough also.

I'd he happy with this, but swap 14 and 15. I never want to see Stockdale at 15 again, it strips him of his strengths and amplifies his weaknesses. I'd likely play Lowe too instead of Earls but its a 50/50.

P.Walnuts

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Lowe
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose
14.Larmour
15. Keenan

Simples

VayNiice

I'm concerned with our back row coming into this 6N.

When was the last time our back row came out on top against top quality opposition? I can see France and particularly England dominating us with ease as we trot out the same combinations with little reward.

Doris has been a big plus for us at 8 and although POM has been playing well at club level, he's not a 7 and will be handed his arse by Curry and Underhill. Stander's route one approach while brave hasn't been productive for us either.

Coombes looks like a great prospect at 6 or even Baird. I'd roll the dice and stick one of them in and give them the exposure like we did with James Ryan. As for 7, none of our pure 7's are in great form and Leavy surely won't be ready for an international return yet.

If our back row can't get parity at least I think we're in for another dissapointing 6N

bilston

Healy
Herring
Porter
Ryan
Beirne (if Henderson isn't available)
Stander
O'Mahony
Doris
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Earls
Keenan

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

Impossible to call the starting back line for Ireland at the moment.

I could see Hugo Keenan retaining the 15 jersey. Lowe is nailed on if fit but he's missed a lot of rugby.

Larmour v Stockdale?

Aki or Henshaw at 12? Ringrose to me is also nailed on but he hasn't had much rugby either.

Murray Sexton look likely to be the starting halves. Murray was Munster's best player yesterday, looks back to his best.

Lowe isn't anywhere near being nailed on

P.Walnuts

P.Walnuts wrote: »

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Lowe
12. He-Shaw
13. Ringrose
14.Larmour
15. Keenan

Simples

Yeah - that's probably what I would go with tbh.

VayNiice wrote: »

I'm concerned with our back row coming into this 6N.

When was the last time our back row came out on top against top quality opposition? I can see France and particularly England dominating us with ease as we trot out the same combinations with little reward.

Doris has been a big plus for us at 8 and although POM has been playing well at club level, he's not a 7 and will be handed his arse by Curry and Underhill. Stander's route one approach while brave hasn't been productive for us either.

Coombes looks like a great prospect at 6 or even Baird. I'd roll the dice and stick one of them in and give them the exposure like we did with James Ryan. As for 7, none of our pure 7's are in great form and Leavy surely won't be ready for an international return yet.

If our back row can't get parity at least I think we're in for another dissapointing 6N

Leavy has come back from a catastrophic injury but whilst he is racking up more caps it's hard to know how well his leg is holding up and what level of comfort / discomfort he is playing with. It was a terrible injury and he may never be right - but his recent motm performance bodes well. He was integral in one of the best years of Irish rugby (2018) so if he is fully recovered I'd like to see him involved.

Our back row is coming along. Stander is a Lion, Pom is a Lion and I think Doris will be. We're not as far off England as people make out and I think we might turn that fixture around this year.

bilston wrote: »

Lowe isn't anywhere near being nailed on

I try not to be absolutist about things as it just leads to egg on face - but in my opinion Lowe is, by quite a margin, the best wing in Ireland and is absolutely first choice.

Louis Friend

Stockdale has been an abomination at 15...calamitous errors again and again...I can’t believe that anyone would pick him at fullback again. Larmour is the man.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah - that's probably what I would go with tbh.




...

Our back row is coming along. Stander is a Lion, Pom is a Lion and I think Doris will be. We're not as far off England as people make out and I think we might turn that fixture around this year.

...

Nobody is a lion at the moment because the lions was 3 years ago. You can't re;y on form from three years ago. There is only current form and I don't think POM or Stander would start for the lions on current form. If we could play matches in 2017 then POM and Stander are brilliant. But if we have to play matches in 2021 (which we do), then they are only good.

Lost Ormond

Deleted User wrote: »

Impossible to call the starting back line for Ireland at the moment.

I could see Hugo Keenan retaining the 15 jersey. Lowe is nailed on if fit but he's missed a lot of rugby.

Larmour v Stockdale?

Aki or Henshaw at 12? Ringrose to me is also nailed on but he hasn't had much rugby either.

Murray Sexton look likely to be the starting halves. Murray was Munster's best player yesterday, looks back to his best.

Lowe has missed a lot of rugby and is nowhere near nailed on.
Dont think it will be Larmour v Stockdale as not sure Keenan will remain at full back.
Think Henshaw has to start.

Buer wrote: »

Henshaw is first name on the team sheet in the back line. He's more nailed on that Sexton or Murray currently.

I don't think we're going to see much change at all in the selection. Questions over the hooker and the wingers. Rest of the team is very likely to be all but chosen already.

The fact that Leinster didn't lose a line out last night is a positive (2 were far from clean wins though) which might tempt Farrell to go back to Kelleher but I'd expect Herring to hang on and deservedly so.

The only other question is whether they go with Earls or Larmour, I think. Larmour more suited to coming in against a tired team from the 23 spot.

I would expect a team of Healy, Herring, Porter, Ryan, Beirne, Stander, POM, Doris, Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls or Larmour and Keenan.

I dont think Kelleher should be ahead of Herring as you say should deservedly be starter. agree with rest of side and think Earls can really only start now

VayNiice wrote: »

I'm concerned with our back row coming into this 6N.

When was the last time our back row came out on top against top quality opposition? I can see France and particularly England dominating us with ease as we trot out the same combinations with little reward.

Doris has been a big plus for us at 8 and although POM has been playing well at club level, he's not a 7 and will be handed his arse by Curry and Underhill. Stander's route one approach while brave hasn't been productive for us either.

Coombes looks like a great prospect at 6 or even Baird. I'd roll the dice and stick one of them in and give them the exposure like we did with James Ryan. As for 7, none of our pure 7's are in great form and Leavy surely won't be ready for an international return yet.

If our back row can't get parity at least I think we're in for another dissapointing 6N

POM is a good option at 7 with Stander and Doris alongside him.
Baird isnt near good enough in the backrow against decent opposition at international level. Coombes deserves a look at.
Would think Leavy may be better off with Leinster for now as still been a short time since his return from that horrid injury.

UAEguy2020

VayNiice wrote: »

I'm concerned with our back row coming into this 6N.

When was the last time our back row came out on top against top quality opposition? I can see France and particularly England dominating us with ease as we trot out the same combinations with little reward.

Doris has been a big plus for us at 8 and although POM has been playing well at club level, he's not a 7 and will be handed his arse by Curry and Underhill. Stander's route one approach while brave hasn't been productive for us either.

Coombes looks like a great prospect at 6 or even Baird. I'd roll the dice and stick one of them in and give them the exposure like we did with James Ryan. As for 7, none of our pure 7's are in great form and Leavy surely won't be ready for an international return yet.

If our back row can't get parity at least I think we're in for another dissapointing 6N

The last time our back row came on top was the last time Ireland could be considered tough, we have been a bunch of softies for 2 years now and get eaten alive at the breakdown against tough teams. The back row that was consistently getting steamrolled in 2019 was the same back row that was dominating in 2018 so it’s clearly not the physicality as the players are the same.

VayNiice

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

The last time our back row came on top was the last time Ireland could be considered tough, we have been a bunch of softies for 2 years now and get eaten alive at the breakdown against tough teams. The back row that was consistently getting steamrolled in 2019 was the same back row that was dominating in 2018 so it’s clearly not the physicality as the players are the same.

In 2018 our game was built around securing ruck ball and building phases with 1 out runners and strike plays. This was perfect for stander to run straight at the man in front and POM to clear out rucks secure a few turnovers and lineout ball.

Our game has had to move on from this and this same back row isn't fit for us to evolve. POM can do a job at 7 but that's it. He's not quick enough and his link play isn't good enough. He's got his strengths for a particular game plan at 6.

I'm not trying to bash POM, he has hit a good vein of form, but if we are looking for a balanced back row we need to change it up.

theVersatile

POMs link play is brilliant what are you on about?

Dubinusa

I look at Lowe and I see Stockdale. Great attacking options and finishers. Both meh tackling wise. I think they are both below average defensively.
I think we don't have many complete all round wings. I think Keenan and Conway would be the best all round wings. Kearney also although Dave isn't a very fast player.
Stockdale is not going to be fullback. At least, I hope not. I reckon he gets the 11 jersey.
Larmour is just back from injury and I don't think he's ready or at 100%. He looked shaky yesterday under the high ball.
I think Earl's will get the 14 jersey. Larmour the 23 jersey and Lowe will feature later in the tournament, depending on the play of the others.
I don't think any of them should feel that they are locked in.

UAEguy2020

VayNiice wrote: »

In 2018 our game was built around securing ruck ball and building phases with 1 out runners and strike plays. This was perfect for stander to run straight at the man in front and POM to clear out rucks secure a few turnovers and lineout ball.

Our game has had to move on from this and this same back row isn't fit for us to evolve. POM can do a job at 7 but that's it. He's not quick enough and his link play isn't good enough. He's got his strengths for a particular game plan at 6.

I'm not trying to bash POM, he has hit a good vein of form, but if we are looking for a balanced back row we need to change it up.

I agree about our back row needing some mending but I do think O’Mahony has been very good lately, probably the best he has played since 2018, I think his link play is very good, it’s one of the reasons I’m happy for him to be at 7.

Doris and O’Mahony are nailed on for me and I must say only tonight I’ve really started jumping on the Coombes hype train, surely bar Vunipola there isn’t a back row as powerful as he is in the 6N? Having someone like that who can consistently get over the gain line and has a massive engine could be invaluable during this tournament.

Tomtom364

In order to pair attacking flair with an absolutely rock solid back field defender I'd love to see a back three of

11. Keenan
14. L'amour
15. Haley

I know Haley is an outside shout but when it comes to defensive capabilities, positioning and the aerial game he is the best full back in the country hands down

bilston

Louis Friend wrote: »

Stockdale has been an abomination at 15...calamitous errors again and again...I can’t believe that anyone would pick him at fullback again. Larmour is the man.

Total hyperbole

Louis Friend

bilston wrote: »

Total hyperbole

He’s really good on the wing, but doesn’t have the nous to play fullback. He has been really poor for Ireland at 15. God bless Robert Kearney.

Buer

theVersatile wrote: »

POMs link play is brilliant what are you on about?

I think POM's hands are brilliant (and underrated) but he isn't really employed as a link man either for Ireland or Munster. He sometimes is deployed on the wing (such as he was when fielding the cross field kick at the weekend) and is sometimes a one out carrier. It's rare to see him operating in that role of getting on the shoulder of the carrier though like a traditional seven or in midfield linking the backs and forwards which we've seen more and more of in recent seasons from teams.

For Leinster's try at the weekend, they scored off a well worked set play. First receiver on the scoring phase was VDF who pulled a nice pass back behind the decoy runner to Byrne. It's not something you really ever see POM do (or maybe asked to do would be more accurate).

Buer

Tomtom364 wrote: »

In order to pair attacking flair with an absolutely rock solid back field defender I'd love to see a back three of

11. Keenan
14. L'amour
15. Haley

I know Haley is an outside shout but when it comes to defensive capabilities, positioning and the aerial game he is the best full back in the country hands down

Haley was tidy at the weekend but he's not test level. He's a safe performer for the most part but has also had wobbles. At the weekend, the kick out on the full was a sloppy error and he also lost a couple of high balls in the first half (one to Henshaw and he spilled the other on his 22).

I think a wider squad player for Ireland is the most he's ever going to be able to hope for, in all honesty.

clsmooth

The problem with Stockdale is he’s too error prone to play 15 at the moment. For every good break he makes he seems to knock on two balls. He has shown other nice bits to his game namely his passing against Georgia which you lose at 11 but still prefer to see him on the wing for now.

Keenan should be lining out at 15. I’d put Larmour at 14 although have similar concerns with him under the high ball. He’s generally less error prone than Stockdale though IMO. I’d have Lowe at 23 for now but wouldn’t be surprised if him and Stockdale end up swapping as the 6N progresses if Stockdale can’t iron out his mistakes.

The Inbetween is mine

Personally I don't think Keenan or larmour are starting for Ireland.
Lowe, Earls, Stockdale are your back 3 if all are fit

El_Duderino 09

clsmooth wrote: »

The problem with Stockdale is he’s too error prone to play 15 at the moment. For every good break he makes he seems to knock on two balls. He has shown other nice bits to his game namely his passing against Georgia which you lose at 11 but still prefer to see him on the wing for now.

Keenan should be lining out at 15. I’d put Larmour at 14 although have similar concerns with him under the high ball. He’s generally less error prone than Stockdale though IMO. I’d have Lowe at 23 for now but wouldn’t be surprised if him and Stockdale end up swapping as the 6N progresses if Stockdale can’t iron out his mistakes.

Stockdale was coasting on reputation for a while. He had that amazing first season, then didn’t score for Ireland or ulster for 18months or 2 years, but was always picked. Likewise, the stint at FB has damaged his reputation because he wasn’t suited to it.

The teams need to be picked on form, not past glory. On form, there isn’t much in it one way or the other amongst the wings. Earls is on good form, Lowe wasn’t on great form leading up to when he was picked for Ireland.

It’s not about who is the best player on paper when they’re hypothetically at the peak of form. It’s about who’s on form now as as far as we can tell, that isn’t Lowe. He should be allowed to get some game time with Leinster to get back up to speed and then drafted into the team
if he’s doing well enough.

Buer

Larmour is a better defender on his feet than Stockdale. Stockdale is much better under the high ball.

Keenan is a very capable full back but he needs to be more aggressive in how he bosses the back field. I'd like to have seen him own some of those situations where Larmour was struggling. It took him 25-30 minutes to really take that by the scruff and come from deep to demand the catch (which he took cleanly).

Can we carry both Larmour and Stockdale in the back three? I'd put Larmour on the bench for the moment given his lengthy absence and go with Earls on the wing. Earls' experience will help Keenan too if he's getting his first ever start at 15 for Ireland.

aloooof

I think it's about finding the right balance in the trio. For example, while they're all obviously in the conversation, and all of them have a case for starting, I just don't think we can go with a combination Lowe, Larmour and Stockdale together.

For me, I think it'll come down to whether Farrell wants to persist with Stockdale at FB or not, but a bit of certainty wouldn't go astray. We've had Larmour, Stockdale and now also Keenan who have all been looked at at FB, but who have also all had starts on the wing.

El_Duderino 09

Buer wrote: »

...
Can we carry both Larmour and Stockdale in the back three? I'd put Larmour on the bench for the moment given his lengthy absence and go with Earls on the wing. Earls' experience will help Keenan too if he's getting his first ever start at 15 for Ireland.

That seems very balanced. I’d imagine Earls to be very generous with his time and a good role model for a younger player. Similar to how Rob Kearney helped Larmour.