Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

prawnsambo · 17-01-2021 6:28pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Because as he's been saying since he first ran for office in 2016, the only way he can lose is if his opponent cheats. Only way. No other reason. Ergo, if he wins, they're totally reliable. If he loses, the opponent cheated. He complained about this during the 2015 primary season when he lost to Ted Cruz in the Iowa caucuses.

Also just particular to this election, commentators were alluding to a 'red mirage' where the majority of in person votes would be republican and counted first, giving the illusion that Trump was winning early on. Trump seized on this and was intent on declaring himself the 'winner' based on these early returns in order to bolster the notion that he was being cheated when the inevitable waves of democrat votes cast by mail would be counted later. So he used what was an expected phenomenon as 'evidence' of being cheated. His supporters swallowed this whole.

spacecoyote · 17-01-2021 6:30pm

One thing I'm struggling to get is the "what about the 74m" argument. Yes, it was a big turnout, but that was because of such a polarised election.

If Biden had been running against a standard Rep candidate, there's no way hes hitting 82m or whatever the final number is.

So you're actually alienating even more voters by leaning into trump. You'll still have Rep voters voting Rep, irrespective of candidate, but if you have a run of the mill Rep, you've likely a better chance of picking up the independents that pretty much all fell Bidens way

duploelabs · 17-01-2021 6:33pm

spacecoyote wrote: »

One thing I'm struggling to get is the "what about the 74m" argument. Yes, it was a big turnout, but that was because of such a polarised election.

If Biden had been running against a standard Rep candidate, there's no way hes hitting 82m or whatever the final number is.

So you're actually alienating even more voters by leaning into trump. You'll still have Rep voters voting Rep, irrespective of candidate, but if you have a run of the mill Rep, you've likely a better chance of picking up the independents that pretty much all fell Bidens way

It's like a football supporter saying they scored more goals than ever before therefore they should have won, unfortunately the opposing team scored one more

aloyisious · 17-01-2021 7:49pm

Overheal wrote: »

Pentagon declared nopesies to that

https://www.mediaite.com/news/pentagon-confirms-military-will-not-hold-traditional-farewell-ceremony-for-trump/

The suckers and losers want nothing to do with him.

I'd imagine that the military are caught in a bit of a bind here as a complete refusal of an honour display would be said to be similar to a verdict of guilt ahead of any trial Trump will face. They could provide a ceremony like that accorded to Obama when he left office in 2017, a review at the joint base Myer-Henderson Hall near the Pentagon, away from the White House as it's a precedent.

A flat refusal for an artillery firing ceremony request can be made because of the effect the explosive noise & sound-waves would have on an already nervy city, what with the threats made by the insurgents of a repeat Capitol event using fire-arms and ordnance this time. The sight of towed artillery heading for the White House would likely cause excitement as well.

aloyisious · 17-01-2021 8:10pm

I'm looking forward to see what sort of relationship there will be between Putin and Biden, compared to the one going out of business soon, to see if Putin makes any sort of public break with Trump and Co and/or there are likely to be revelations in the near distance of what was said in Trump's private meeting in the White House with Putin's ministers.

Water John · 17-01-2021 8:14pm

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm looking forward to see what sort of relationship there will be between Putin and Biden, compared to the one going out of business soon, to see if Putin makes any sort of public break with Trump and Co and/or there are likely to be revelations in the near distance of what was said in Trump's private meeting in the White House with Putin's ministers.

What happens to Navalny, having returned to Russia today, and Biden's response will give an answer.

Tell me how · 17-01-2021 8:25pm

Water John wrote: »

What happens to Navalny, having returned to Russia today, and Biden's response will give an answer.

I'm perplexed why Navalny didn't wait another week until Biden was President just to possibly temper Putin desires to act which he might feel more acceptable in these last few days.

prawnsambo · 17-01-2021 9:06pm

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm perplexed why Navalny didn't wait another week until Biden was President just to possibly temper Putin desires to act which he might feel more acceptable in these last few days.

I doubt a few days would make any difference. If Biden wants to take any action, he's got an open goal really. Navalny is putting it up to Putin on his own terms. It's a big risk, but whether it was today or next week would make no difference, Putin does something, he'll do it whether Biden is in office or not because there will be repercussions either way.

Headshot · 17-01-2021 9:11pm

Very worrying about Navalny, hopefully Biden does something about it help him

prawnsambo · 17-01-2021 9:22pm

Headshot wrote: »

Very worrying about Navalny, hopefully Biden does something about it help him

If Putin is gambling that Biden will do nothing, he's in for a shock. This is an absolutely gilt-edged opportunity for Biden to show strength with pretty much nothing to lose. Awfully stupid to arrest Navalny, nothing to be gained from it.

Dohnjoe · 17-01-2021 9:33pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

If Putin is gambling that Biden will do nothing, he's in for a shock. This is an absolutely gilt-edged opportunity for Biden to show strength with pretty much nothing to lose. Awfully stupid to arrest Navalny, nothing to be gained from it.

If the US does something, Russia is again the "victim" of the Western agenda, Putin wins.

If the US does nothing, Putin wins.

No opposition, a cowed media, gold-plated domestic support (the apathetic don't vote), immunity if he ever leaves power. All Putin has to do is confront and stand up the world every once in awhile to appease the nationalists.

prawnsambo · 17-01-2021 9:52pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If the US does something, Russia is again the "victim" of the Western agenda, Putin wins.

If the US does nothing, Putin wins.

No opposition, a cowed media, gold-plated domestic support (the apathetic don't vote), immunity if he ever leaves power. All Putin has to do is confront and stand up the world every once in awhile to appease the nationalists.

Not so sure that Putin is as 'popular' as he used to be, but there are lots of Putin's friends floating around and plenty of money to target, especially in the US. Sanctions on individuals close to Putin have always been favourite. Anyhow, first shots have been fired.

Headshot · 17-01-2021 9:59pm

It does ****ing annoy me that Europe will criticise Russia but we'll take their gas, no problemo. (im looking at you Germany)

I'm hoping Biden ****ing wakes Europe up and stop this double standards crap

prawnsambo · 17-01-2021 10:05pm

Well I suppose we should have expected it, but still this is low. Selling pardons at $2 million a pop. Giuliani the front man and Kushner the rubber stamp man.

duploelabs · 17-01-2021 10:05pm

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm perplexed why Navalny didn't wait another week until Biden was President just to possibly temper Putin desires to act which he might feel more acceptable in these last few days.

I would say, from Navalny's viewpoint, he doesn't want to appear to Putin (and the general optics to the Russian public) as if he's hiding in Biden's apron (so to speak), that he's not part of a cold War effort against the old enemy and is part of a genuine indigenous movement

Thargor · 17-01-2021 11:12pm

The New Yorker had a reporter in the mob and have released their footage, 12 min but well worth a watch, complete and utter batsh1t insanity:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/where-the-fck-is-nancy-the-new-yorker-shares-stunning-new-capitol-mob-footage/

Tell me how · 17-01-2021 11:22pm

Thargor wrote: »

The New Yorker had a reporter in the mob and have released their footage, 12 min but well worth a watch, complete and utter batsh1t insanity:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/where-the-fck-is-nancy-the-new-yorker-shares-stunning-new-capitol-mob-footage/

Ted Cruz doesn't come out of it looking too good.

As for the sight of cops strolling around asking people if they needed medical attention. Quite a different response to how they acted at protests throughout all of last summer.

Headshot · 17-01-2021 11:32pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Ted Cruz doesn't come out of it looking too good.

Does he ever?

How a man can bend over for Trump who blatantly told lies about Cruz's family, says alot about Cruz.

I see the WH or more specifically Giuliani is whoring out Presidential Pardons now
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/17/rudy-giuliani-associate-john-kiriakou-trump-pardon

froog · 17-01-2021 11:49pm

Thargor wrote: »

The New Yorker had a reporter in the mob and have released their footage, 12 min but well worth a watch, complete and utter batsh1t insanity:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/where-the-fck-is-nancy-the-new-yorker-shares-stunning-new-capitol-mob-footage/

two of the lads talking about "millions" of people behind them coming in. these guys actually thought they had an army with them ready to take over the country. frightening levels of delusion. most of them looked like people with moderate to severe mental issues.

aloyisious · 17-01-2021 11:51pm

Thargor wrote: »

The New Yorker had a reporter in the mob and have released their footage, 12 min but well worth a watch, complete and utter batsh1t insanity:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/where-the-fck-is-nancy-the-new-yorker-shares-stunning-new-capitol-mob-footage/

That's the Air-Nat/Gd Lt Col in the helmet issuing the "Understand me, I don't want [unheard] -[followed by] information" order.

18-01-2021 12:04am

Headshot wrote: »

It does ****ing annoy me that Europe will criticise Russia but we'll take their gas, no problemo. (im looking at you Germany)

I'm hoping Biden ****ing wakes Europe up and stop this double standards crap

Russia has been supplying western Europe with gas since the 80s and even before that if memory serves me correctly. Well back when the U.S.S.R. was supposed to be the devil incarnate and the Reagan Administration saying that the money they would receive from an increased deal for the supply of gas to western Europe, would bolster their military imperialism. In short the Reagan Administration was more worried that western Europe would be less oil dependant, as the Reagan Administration had no issues with American farmers selling grain to the U.S.S.R. at the same time.

I'm not defending Putin btw, he is a extremely dangerous individual and has increased the hold criminal organisations have in Russia and elsewhere in my opinion. I'm simply highlighting that western Europe and Russia have been customers and suppliers for decades even when half of Germany was under their effective control and the yanks haven't had a issue doing business with them when it suited them.

demfad · 18-01-2021 12:52am

Headshot wrote: »

It does ****ing annoy me that Europe will criticise Russia but we'll take their gas, no problemo. (im looking at you Germany)

I'm hoping Biden ****ing wakes Europe up and stop this double standards crap

They don't have a choice. Russian control of Syria means no gas line the other way. Russia also benefitted from the Qatar blockade which stopped plans of shipping Qatari product west.

Biden can help Europe by putting Putin out of business. He must also pressure those who work with him (including in London). Otherwise nothing will change.

Dohnjoe · 18-01-2021 1:02am

Headshot wrote: »

It does ****ing annoy me that Europe will criticise Russia but we'll take their gas, no problemo. (im looking at you Germany)

I'm hoping Biden ****ing wakes Europe up and stop this double standards crap

The switch doesn't happen overnight. But Europe has been trying to gradually move away from Russian supply since the Crimea situation, but it's a long process and options are limited

aloyisious · 18-01-2021 1:21am

Tell me how wrote: »

Ted Cruz doesn't come out of it looking too good.

As for the sight of cops strolling around asking people if they needed medical attention. Quite a different response to how they acted at protests throughout all of last summer.

The new video releases on CNN which caught live the interactions between the Capitol Police officers in a holding standoff position between them and the insurgents, the insurgents using Trump's name repeatedly as the reason they clearly beiieved their attack and invasion of the Capitol building were authorised by his [what seems to be a verbal directive] speech to them on Pennsylvania Avenue. Linking them to Cruz's statements on the actions of the insurgents are very reflective of the "shifting in the tide" political positions he's adapted as visual evidence is shown to the public of the connection between trump and the insurgents. It also show's both he and Trump have thrown the insurgents under the bus.

Tell me how · 18-01-2021 1:30am

aloyisious wrote: »

The new video releases on CNN which caught live the interactions between the Capitol Police officers in a holding standoff position between them and the insurgents, the insurgents using Trump's name repeatedly as the reason they clearly beiieved their attack and invasion of the Capitol building were authorised by his [what seems to be a verbal directive] speech to them on Pennsylvania Avenue. Linking them to Cruz's statements on the actions of the insurgents are very reflective of the "shifting in the tide" political positions he's adapted as visual evidence is shown to the public of the connection between trump and the insurgents. It also show's both he and Trump have thrown the insurgents under the bus.

Absolutely. Trump went from telling them he loved and respected to them, to saying everyone involved in violent activity should be prosecuted.

The only surprise is that people might be surprised by his behavior. He has literally done it to everyone else throughout his life and career.

aloyisious · 18-01-2021 1:53am

I'm probably wrong in my opinion where it comes to the advances of science made where it to the "recovering of data by forensic science" methods used by federal agencies allied to the sciences of tracking cell phones location signals and the monitoring of the phones conversations by legal means in the DC area but the amount of evidence recoverable from the cellphones used liberally by the insurgents in their voluntarily self-recorded cellphone conversations must be enormous. The connection and transfer of the conversations freely via the WWW to chat with the world must also be enormous. The callers transmitted and shared freely their conversations according to their rights in the constitution.

Edit: actuality it's probably the other part of the free speech angle not mentioned by Trump due to his "Fake News Julius Streicher and Joseph Goebbels" attitude that has come back from within the U.S constitution to bite him in the ass, to use a U.S right allowed under the same amendment.

aloyisious · 18-01-2021 2:17am

Rep Nancy Mace [R] South Carolina, newly elected to Congress, told CNN that she believes QAnon Representatives in congress must be removed from congress.

Windmill100000 · 18-01-2021 2:37am

Tell me how wrote: »

Absolutely. Trump went from telling them he loved and respected to them, to saying everyone involved in violent activity should be prosecuted.

The only surprise is that people might be surprised by his behavior. He has literally done it to everyone else throughout his life and career.

I think it was evident by the brazen attitude of the rioters that they believed they were there because Trump wanted them and as he was the "boss" as one called him then they were protected and would not be prosecuted no matter what they did.

Lmao off at the losers going through desks and taking photos of documents they thought would prove that the election was stolen. Even if anything existed (which of course it doesn't) it would hardly be flung into a desk.

It reminded me of a scene from The Goonies as the kids looked for the next cryptic message from One-eyed Willie.

Absolute idiots. You couldn't make it up.

Manic Moran · 18-01-2021 2:59am

aloyisious wrote: »

Rep Nancy Mace [R] South Carolina, newly elected to Congress, told CNN that she believes QAnon Representatives in congress must be removed from congress.

She doesn’t see a problem with her declaring that a duly elected representative should be removed simply because she doesn’t like their politics? (Assuming such QAnon representatives actually exist in Congress, not quite sure how they will be suitably identified for purging purposes)

aloyisious · 18-01-2021 4:12am

Manic Moran wrote: »

She doesn’t see a problem with her declaring that a duly elected representative should be removed simply because she doesn’t like their politics? (Assuming such QAnon representatives actually exist in Congress, not quite sure how they will be suitably identified for purging purposes)

Beliefs over stated politics? Isn't that part of the present division between both of the apparently GOP law-abiding sides in the U.S Congress?

Where it comes to personal beliefs, shouldn't the presented videos available be enough for the average U.S cognitive citizen to make a judgement for themselves on the actions and deeds of the self-identified Q-Anon believers amongst the new elected members and THE allied action and deeds the insurgents carried out in the Capitol building and it's surrounds on the 06 Jan this year, or do you believe the statements from the congress members should be disbelieved?

Leroy42 · 18-01-2021 9:13am

aloyisious wrote: »

Beliefs over stated politics? Isn't that part of the present division between both of the apparently GOP law-abiding sides in the U.S Congress?

Where it comes to personal beliefs, shouldn't the presented videos available be enough for the average U.S cognitive citizen to make a judgement for themselves on the actions and deeds of the self-identified Q-Anon believers amongst the new elected members of the elected actions and THE allied action and deeds the insurgents carried out in the Capitol building and it's surrounds on the 06 Jan this year, or do you believe the statements from the congress members should be disbelieved?

If they did anything they should be prosecuted according to the law. If that means they lose their right to hold a seat then fine.

But deselecting a member of Congress because one doesn't agree with their views is not on. They were voted in by the people, it is up to the rest of the chamber to argue, and vote,cagaijst her views.

Brian? · 18-01-2021 9:26am

Manic Moran wrote: »

She doesn’t see a problem with her declaring that a duly elected representative should be removed simply because she doesn’t like their politics? (Assuming such QAnon representatives actually exist in Congress, not quite sure how they will be suitably identified for purging purposes)

QAnon is not “politics”. It’s insanity.

Christy42 · 18-01-2021 10:02am

Manic Moran wrote: »

She doesn’t see a problem with her declaring that a duly elected representative should be removed simply because she doesn’t like their politics? (Assuming such QAnon representatives actually exist in Congress, not quite sure how they will be suitably identified for purging purposes)

I believe it has more to do with supporting the recent coup attempt than flat out politics. I believe similar happened when some didn't recognise Lincoln.

listermint · 18-01-2021 10:37am

Manic Moran wrote: »

She doesn’t see a problem with her declaring that a duly elected representative should be removed simply because she doesn’t like their politics? (Assuming such QAnon representatives actually exist in Congress, not quite sure how they will be suitably identified for purging purposes)

I'm sure a man like yourself would understand that it's not beliefs, it's an organisation that the FBI has now designated as domestic terrorist threat.

Leroy42 · 18-01-2021 10:51am

listermint wrote: »

I'm sure a man like yourself would understand that it's not beliefs, it's an organisation that the FBI has now designated as domestic terrorist threat.

Have they? Qanon is now treated as a terrorist organisation?

I hadn't seen that. Of course if she is a member of a terrorist organisation then she should be arrested and suspended from office.

But that goes back to dealing with it within the law. Simply deselecting her because she has, admittedly weird and dangerous, views is not a good way to go.

I am sure some people would think some of my views, or yours or whomever, are weird and dangerous.

duploelabs · 18-01-2021 11:00am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Have they? Qanon is now treated as a terrorist organisation?

I hadn't seen that. Of course if she is a member of a terrorist organisation then she should be arrested and suspended from office.

But that goes back to dealing with it within the law. Simply deselecting her because she has, admittedly weird and dangerous, views is not a good way to go.

I am sure some people would think some of my views, or yours or whomever, are weird and dangerous.

here
https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-documents-conspiracy-theories-terrorism-160000507.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=tw&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudGhlZGFpbHliZWFzdC5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAG2EYM76aVGJ2TcOgqujpL0v7tCQ263E5t3q6jznjHZnM8He-lwglxERQAFpMqFkBvF_ZwXFc1LNPRzKfhSF6dFocRXsTTOHXckkeWZdor8dENyG4mBGanUzMlE3b4ggwAZuiCvJCgOUwio5ZDNiou_jA-hRDl1GhJdVx-3rfzYq

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/09/17/fbi-director-describes-domestic-extremists-in-homeland-threats-hearing/

Akrasia · 18-01-2021 11:25am

listermint wrote: »

I'm sure a man like yourself would understand that it's not beliefs, it's an organisation that the FBI has now designated as domestic terrorist threat.

The US allowed open KKK members to be in the senate up until Byrd died in 2010

As FUBAR as QAnon is, it would be completely hypocritical to remove them from elected office while having nothing in place to prevent members of other hateful groups from being elected as senators or Congresspeople.

Democracy means that sometimes bad people get elected. There need to be checks and balances and constitutional protections against the risk that anti democratic forces could take control and use their position to prevent future elections from taking place, but other than that, the will of the people needs to be respected or else the system loses all legitimacy

kowloon · 18-01-2021 12:47pm

Akrasia wrote: »

Democracy means that sometimes bad people get elected.

That feels like an understatement, but leadership just seems to naturally attract people with traits that make them unsuitable for leadership and you can only vote for the best, or least terrible, on offer.

Leroy42 · 18-01-2021 1:07pm

kowloon wrote: »

That feels like an understatement, but leadership just seems to naturally attract people with traits that make them unsuitable for leadership and you can only vote for the best, or least terrible, on offer.

“The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

fly_agaric · 18-01-2021 1:23pm

Akrasia wrote: »

The US allowed open KKK members to be in the senate up until Byrd died in 2010

As FUBAR as QAnon is, it would be completely hypocritical to remove them from elected office while having nothing in place to prevent members of other hateful groups from being elected as senators or Congresspeople.

Democracy means that sometimes bad people get elected. There need to be checks and balances and constitutional protections against the risk that anti democratic forces could take control and use their position to prevent future elections from taking place, but other than that, the will of the people needs to be respected or else the system loses all legitimacy

Very true. I suppose 3 gatekeepers against the election of crazy to high office in a democracy would be the political parties themselves, and the media and the education level of the voting public.

So, as far as I can see the US is f-cked for the forseeable in all regards (a shítty media combined with internet poison, 1 rabid party captured by extremists, a big foolish and ignorant voting block).

The Donald won't be the last bat-**** "Leader of the Free World" they vote in IMO.

aloyisious · 18-01-2021 1:32pm

Akrasia wrote: »

The US allowed open KKK members to be in the senate up until Byrd died in 2010

As FUBAR as QAnon is, it would be completely hypocritical to remove them from elected office while having nothing in place to prevent members of other hateful groups from being elected as senators or Congresspeople.

Democracy means that sometimes bad people get elected. There need to be checks and balances and constitutional protections against the risk that anti democratic forces could take control and use their position to prevent future elections from taking place, but other than that, the will of the people needs to be respected or else the system loses all legitimacy

Definitely not the chair of committees like judicial, intelligence or budgetary oversight.

hotmail.com · 18-01-2021 2:18pm

Won't be a peep out of the Democrats this week about pardoning.

Dohnjoe · 18-01-2021 2:27pm

A source clsoe to Trump claimed that he sees pardoning as a favour to that person. To be repaid how, we'll see.

BonnieSituation · 18-01-2021 2:31pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Won't be a peep out of the Democrats this week about pardoning.

Beating this drum again?

Christy42 · 18-01-2021 2:34pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A source clsoe to Trump claimed that he sees pardoning as a favour to that person. To be repaid how, we'll see.

Well he saw the state funeral for McCain as a personal favour so that makes sense.

StringerBell · 18-01-2021 2:36pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Won't be a peep out of the Democrats this week about pardoning.

For the umpteenth time, what would you like them to do on the pardoning power the President has?

And why have you only taken an interest in it the last few weeks?

StringerBell · 18-01-2021 2:40pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A source clsoe to Trump claimed that he sees pardoning as a favour to that person. To be repaid how, we'll see.

Apparently selling them for 2million a pop, sure why not. Handy money if you can get it and have absolutely no principles.

demfad · 18-01-2021 2:53pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

She doesn’t see a problem with her declaring that a duly elected representative should be removed simply because she doesn’t like their politics? (Assuming such QAnon representatives actually exist in Congress, not quite sure how they will be suitably identified for purging purposes)

Their "Politics" is to overthrow US democracy. Fascism cannot be ignored or tolerated.

Detritus70 · 18-01-2021 2:56pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

Won't be a peep out of the Democrats this week about pardoning.

Every now and then you hunt this tired old sow through the village again.

Detritus70 · 18-01-2021 3:03pm

duploelabs wrote: »

here

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/09/17/fbi-director-describes-domestic-extremists-in-homeland-threats-hearing/

When Chairman Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., asked whether it was right-wing or left-wing extremists who posed a greater danger, Wray said it was “not one ideology, but rather lone actors, largely self-radicalized online who pursue soft targets using readily available weapons.”

Reminds me of that "domestric threat skin tone color chart"

Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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