Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Random Fitness Questions
Options
Comments
-
That wasn't obvious at all considering you said something completely different.Obviously I meant the main or "big three" compounds: Bench, Squat, Deadlift
I'd still disagree FWIW. The big 3 are comp lifts. Doing one per day means training them once each. That isn't going to cut it for a lot of programs.
Big 4/6 is probably more relevant also.The triathlons are mostly aerobic work so that bulk of the training maybe 80% would be zone 2 it's not too intense . The only thing I seem to find hard is running day after intense leg work , so tempo speedwork would be done before that . I just have to be careful with when I do run and bike intervals .pretty much any day I can do a 2 hour zone 2 bike ride almost immediately after a weight session and if anything it almost helps recovery.
Just plan it out over a week including the tri-work. You know yourself what effects what and just make sure priority stays a priority.0 -
Alex Viada has been mentioned as someone you might be interested in reading about - balancing Tri-training and strength. Here is one of his recent articles - https://www.jtsstrength.com/5-questions-alex-viada/recent0
-
Whatever happened to Brian Mackenzie's CrossFit Endurance? That was all the rage back when I was in CrossFit, but it seems to have gone the way of the dodo. Did it just ... not work?
https://www.podiumrunner.com/training/brian-mackenzies-12-week-crossfit-endurance-advanced-training-program/
The concept was hard to argue with, if it delivered as promised... Although a wag would say that they replaced potentially injurious longer endurance workouts with potentially injurious CrossFit workouts...0 -
Black Sheep wrote: »Whatever happened to Brian Mackenzie's CrossFit Endurance? That was all the rage back when I was in CrossFit, but it seems to have gone the way of the dodo. Did it just ... not work?
Same thing that happened to all the other coaches and methods that used to be all the rage for them I guess! Louie Simmons, Rippetoe, Kelly Starrett, Mark Bell, Carl Paoli, James Fitzgerald. All used to be hailed by CrossFit and then were eventually ditched for the next guru.0 -
Alex Viada has been mentioned as someone you might be interested in reading about - balancing Tri-training and strength. Here is one of his recent articles - https://www.jtsstrength.com/5-questions-alex-viada/recent
This guy has zero creditable in running and probably as much in triathlon.
His claims of being "elite" runner is total BS. He claims to have a 4.15 mile but has no evidence to back it up as it wasn't in a race, just a training session.
His best official 5k is 26 mins and marathon is 4.17.
Apparently his max lift and running pbs are years apart as well.0 -
Advertisement
-
This guy has zero creditable in running and probably as much in triathlon.
His claims of being "elite" runner is total BS. He claims to have a 4.15 mile but has no evidence to back it up as it wasn't in a race, just a training session.
His best official 5k is 26 mins and marathon is 4.17.
Apparently his max lift and running pbs are years apart as well.
https://completehumanperformance.com/2018/08/22/the-price-of-a-mile/0 -
This guy has zero creditable in running and probably as much in triathlon.
His claims of being "elite" runner is total BS. He claims to have a 4.15 mile but has no evidence to back it up as it wasn't in a race, just a training session.
His best official 5k is 26 mins and marathon is 4.17.
Apparently his max lift and running pbs are years apart as well.
To be fair, most of his contributions referenced on this forum (JTS and Stronger By Science) are on the benefits of cardio/aerobic training for strength athletes and practical considerations of combining with weight training and I haven't seen anything that is practically discredited by what he did or didn't say about his own achievements.0 -
Alf Veedersane wrote: »To be fair, most of his contributions referenced on this forum (JTS and Stronger By Science) are on the benefits of cardio/aerobic training for strength athletes and practical considerations of combining with weight training and I haven't seen anything that is practically discredited by what he did or didn't say about his own achievements.
To be fair. If you're trying to promote your program of heavy lifting and cardio to the running & triathlon community, announcing that you can run a 4.15 mile sounds a lot better than 6.15 or x,xx.
The problem is when you announce that you can run 4.15, (even if it was a down hill mile) and weigh what ever he did, you better be able to back that up with either some evidence, ie race results or repeat it.
A piece the worte in his blog didn't help his cause either. As it was seen that he was trying to run 4.15 while taking peds.
"But what was built through years of practice and love for a sport (and even then, was not up to par with my current goal) could not be duplicated through months of angry training. Even with the aid of massive loads of drugs, (certain blood boosters, ITPP, AICAR, GW1516, stimulants…), I couldn’t pull it together. I simply am not a true 4:15 miler,"..
Can people lift weight and do endurance events, im sure they can, but don't say your elite at both when you can't back it up.0 -
To be fair. If you're trying to promote your program of heavy lifting and cardio to the running & triathlon community, announcing that you can run a 4.15 mile sounds a lot better than 6.15 or x,xx.
The problem is when you announce that you can run 4.15, (even if it was a down hill mile) and weigh what ever he did, you better be able to back that up with either some evidence, ie race results or repeat it.
A piece the worte in his blog didn't help his cause either. As it was seen that he was trying to run 4.15 while taking peds.
"But what was built through years of practice and love for a sport (and even then, was not up to par with my current goal) could not be duplicated through months of angry training. Even with the aid of massive loads of drugs, (certain blood boosters, ITPP, AICAR, GW1516, stimulants…), I couldn’t pull it together. I simply am not a true 4:15 miler,"..
Can people lift weight and do endurance events, im sure they can, but don't say your elite at both when you can't back it up.
To be honest, I have never paid any interest in the claims. I only ever saw them in the JTS article linked previously. I first encountered him on Stronger By Science where he was presented as someone to support doing cardio as a lifter.
I can see your point as a runner regarding the claims.
But I still don't think it discredited the advice on cardio as a lifter that has been posted here.0 -
To be fair. If you're trying to promote your program of heavy lifting and cardio to the running & triathlon community, announcing that you can run a 4.15 mile sounds a lot better than 6.15 or x,xx.
The problem is when you announce that you can run 4.15, (even if it was a down hill mile) and weigh what ever he did, you better be able to back that up with either some evidence, ie race results or repeat it.
A piece the worte in his blog didn't help his cause either. As it was seen that he was trying to run 4.15 while taking peds.
"But what was built through years of practice and love for a sport (and even then, was not up to par with my current goal) could not be duplicated through months of angry training. Even with the aid of massive loads of drugs, (certain blood boosters, ITPP, AICAR, GW1516, stimulants…), I couldn’t pull it together. I simply am not a true 4:15 miler,"..
Can people lift weight and do endurance events, im sure they can, but don't say your elite at both when you can't back it up.
He made a mistake, he admits it. It doesn't instantly discredit all of the very good advice he has given to people.
I don't see how him taking drugs makes him any less credible than all of the actual elite runners who are on drugs. The elite in almost every sport are on them.0 -
Advertisement
-
I’m sure the advice is good. But I’m with the above sentiment. It’s not about the quality of the advice. The only reason he’s on JTS, SbyS, being mentioned on forums and receiving tons of web traffic is because he made bullshït claims. Ultimately he profiteered off of those claims. So he’s a fraud plain and simple.Alf Veedersane wrote: »I can see your point as a runner regarding the claims.
But I still don't think it discredited the advice on cardio as a lifter that has been posted here.
FWIW his claims were never believable. Mainly the 4:15 mile. But even his “it’s was a misunderstanding” blog post is nonsense. He “forgot” to mention it was downhill. Ok I don’t believe that, but he is purposefully withholding his actually PB. Most likely because it’s crap. I’d respect his hands up apology if it included that rather than pretending it was a misunderstanding.
I may not have a 700 deadlift (he may not either).
But I focus on strength training typically. But aim confident that I’m faster than this guy over a mile.0 -
I’m sure the advice is good. But I’m with the above sentiment. It’s not about the quality of the advice. The only reason he’s on JTS, SbyS, being mentioned on forums and receiving tons of web traffic is because he made bullshït claims. Ultimately he profiteered off of those claims. So he’s a fraud plain and simple.
It's still doesn't mean you need to disregard the particular message just because of the messenger. The articles on SBS were linked to support a general point combining cardio work with lifting and had nothing to do with the point being made by Alex Viada.
Frankly, I couldnt tell you what he had claimed he had done in both realms because I wasn't particularly interested. I think I assumed that he was just pretty competent as a lifter who could run/do triathlons...his size doesn't exactly lend itself to being elite at running/triathlon.
The explanation doesn't particularly show it all in a good light but I can still separate the message from the messenger with regards to where his name has come up on here.0 -
The SBS article was in a different thread. (Avoiding Cardio Could Be Holding You Back By Greg Nuckolds). No issue with the general message there.Alf Veedersane wrote: »It's still doesn't mean you need to disregard the particular message just because of the messenger. The articles on SBS were linked to support a general point combining cardio work with lifting and had nothing to do with the point being made by Alex Viada.
This discussion started with a link to interview with Alex Vianda. It opens with "PRs of 705, 465 and 700 raw w/ wraps in the 220 class and a mile time of 4:15".
His recommendations in the article;- Diet: Don't avoid carbs, you need energy to recover, 2g protein per kg and a multivitamin.
- Why include cardio: For health and conditioning.
- Recovery: Light cardio, bath/sauna, sleep
- Biggest change in hybrid training: Be efficient, all do what is necessary to get better
I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It's all good advice.
But its also absolutely basic, and I mean BASIC AF. Nobody needs to defer to Alex Viada and his PRs and sift through a few paragraphs of self fellatio for that info. Any of a number of posters could have posted that in any number of threads. Certain doesn;t give me any confidence in his coaching packages.0 -
The SBS article was in a different thread. (Avoiding Cardio Could Be Holding You Back By Greg Nuckolds). No issue with the general message there.
This discussion started with a link to interview with Alex Vianda. It opens with "PRs of 705, 465 and 700 raw w/ wraps in the 220 class and a mile time of 4:15".
His recommendations in the article;
I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It's all good advice.
But its also absolutely basic, and I mean BASIC AF. Nobody needs to defer to Alex Viada and his PRs and sift through a few paragraphs of self fellatio for that info. Any of a number of posters could have posted that in any number of threads. Certain doesn;t give me any confidence in his coaching packages.
Hadn't read through that JTS article. And several posters have likely given much of the advice.
In any case, was thinking more of the SBS articles. And they're a good read for people who have probably been advised here but people will often want something from outside of boards to support what's said here.
I'd never have thought of going to his website. Most people that ask about lifting and cardio just want general guidelines here.
Again, no interest in Alex Viada per se. I've linked the SBS articles he's referenced in because (a) Greg Nuckols and (b) its solid info.0 -
He basically says in the article that his actually PB is 5:15.
Are we just going to disregard the fact that being able to deadlift 700lbs and run even a 5:15 mile is insanely impressive? I'd wager there are far fewer humans who can do that, than those who can run a 4:15.
Combine this with the other very good coaches who support him and the many athletes he's worked with, he clearly is not a total fraud and knows a lot about 'hybrid' training.0 -
lads, can we get back on topic? Random fitness questions. I can split the debate off in to a new thread later. Thanks Brian
they/them/theirs
And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek
0 -
A couple of questions on deadlifts if I may , I guess I'm getting near my max now so noticing some things I didn't notice before.
I'm at 5 sets of 3 at 130kg , it's starting to feel hard now to the point I had to talk myself into last set yesterday .
Grip strength is there anything i can do to improve it? It felt hard to hold the bar from rolling out especially on last rep of each set. I've looked up alternating grips ( I currently use overhand grip for both hands ) when I set up in alternating grip I feel like one shoulder hangs lower. I guess if I change grip I should deload to get used to it ?
Second thing is I reset after each rep , I don't stand up but get my breathing correct , shins to bar and concentrate on getting form correct and pull again all in about 3-5 seconds between reps ,I've seen people deadlift and they just lightly tip the floor and go should I be aiming for that ?
And lastly on that similar note my wife actually said to me the noise of the weights hitting the shed floor (not a problem ) but i am now starting to drop the weight at about the last 6 inches to ground I just don't seem to have the strength to lower it slowly all the way down now the last 6 inches to floor is my weakest point .should I reduce the weights so that I can lower it comfortably or is it ok to drop it ? Thanks0 -
Grip: overhand is good for warming up and for working grip. But nobody lifts their Max with double overhand. Alternate/mixed grip is what you need. Shoulder will be slightly different due to the rotation. Just make sure arms are locked out and you aren’t pulling with bicep loaded.
Resetting is good. Certainly better than fast bounces that you see. But 3-5 is a bit long. You may better trying to maintain as much form as possible. Try to lower the bar into the correct spot so you can brave and go rather than having to adjust.
Are you fully letting go of the bar or letting gravity take over? Don’t let go, but 130kg isn’t going to be a light touchdown. Trying to lower the bar initial place close to shins will help maintain controlz0 -
And if you really hate yourself have a look at the hook grip0
-
A couple of questions on deadlifts if I may , I guess I'm getting near my max now so noticing some things I didn't notice before.
I'm at 5 sets of 3 at 130kg , it's starting to feel hard now to the point I had to talk myself into last set yesterday .
Grip strength is there anything i can do to improve it? It felt hard to hold the bar from rolling out especially on last rep of each set. I've looked up alternating grips ( I currently use overhand grip for both hands ) when I set up in alternating grip I feel like one shoulder hangs lower. I guess if I change grip I should deload to get used to it ?
Second thing is I reset after each rep , I don't stand up but get my breathing correct , shins to bar and concentrate on getting form correct and pull again all in about 3-5 seconds between reps ,I've seen people deadlift and they just lightly tip the floor and go should I be aiming for that ?
And lastly on that similar note my wife actually said to me the noise of the weights hitting the shed floor (not a problem ) but i am now starting to drop the weight at about the last 6 inches to ground I just don't seem to have the strength to lower it slowly all the way down now the last 6 inches to floor is my weakest point .should I reduce the weights so that I can lower it comfortably or is it ok to drop it ? Thanks
As Mellor said double overhand will only take you so far. You basically have three options to use instead of it. The first is mixed grip which you've already used, as long as you aren't actively straining your bicep this grip is perfectly fine and probably what is used by the majority of people. I use it myself. Next you could learn hook grip. This basically uses your thumb as a barrier and is quite painful initially but allows you to keep both hands overhand which some people say helps them use their lats better. Finally you could just use straps. Some people may disagree but deadlift isn't really a grip exercise. If you have no plans of competing in powerlifiting it's totally fine to use straps.
Also if you aren't already using chalk it does make a big difference. If you're worried about a mess liquid chalk is much tidier.
So what you're describing with your reset is the difference between dead-stop and touch-and-go. Personally I think they both have there place in training. TNG isn't just bouncing the bar and is very useful for higher rep sets. It allows for greater time under tension as you have to have it under control each time you lower it. I find it is quite a useful tool for hypertrophy. You're unlikely to be able to properly TNG higher percentages. Dead-stop is very useful if your weakpoint is off the floor which it is for most people on conventional and I think is the best way to train low rep sets.
You don't have to lower it under control. In fact it's probably not going to be possible with every set but I certainly prefer to have some control as I'm doing it. I don't think it's something you have to deload for but have more of a focus on it during your warm-up sets.0 -
Advertisement
-
Grip: overhand is good for warming up and for working grip. But nobody lifts their Max with double overhand. Alternate/mixed grip is what you need. Shoulder will be slightly different due to the rotation. Just make sure arms are locked out and you aren’t pulling with bicep loaded.
Resetting is good. Certainly better than fast bounces that you see. But 3-5 is a bit long. You may better trying to maintain as much form as possible. Try to lower the bar into the correct spot so you can brave and go rather than having to adjust.
Are you fully letting go of the bar or letting gravity take over? Don’t let go, but 130kg isn’t going to be a light touchdown. Trying to lower the bar initial place close to shins will help maintain controlz
I didnt explain myself well sorry , I don't actually let go of the bar at all at the lowest point just before ground I let go of control like I'm lowering slowly then it gets to a point where I lose the power to lower it to ground under control and gravity takes over .
I'll try work on going straight away again after the rep tbh I think the rep takes that much out of me that I'm taking a breather and using resetting as an excuse, deadlifts feel like a cardio workout for me. I'll just have to push a bit harder cause I don't reset long on light days where I do 3 sets of 10 deadlift.
Thanks0 -
the baby bull elephant wrote: »As Mellor said double overhand will only take you so far. You basically have three options to use instead of it. The first is mixed grip which you've already used, as long as you aren't actively straining your bicep this grip is perfectly fine and probably what is used by the majority of people. I use it myself. Next you could learn hook grip. This basically uses your thumb as a barrier and is quite painful initially but allows you to keep both hands overhand which some people say helps them use their lats better. Finally you could just use straps. Some people may disagree but deadlift isn't really a grip exercise. If you have no plans of competing in powerlifiting it's totally fine to use straps.
Also if you aren't already using chalk it does make a big difference. If you're worried about a mess liquid chalk is much tidier.
So what you're describing with your reset is the difference between dead-stop and touch-and-go. Personally I think they both have there place in training. TNG isn't just bouncing the bar and is very useful for higher rep sets. It allows for greater time under tension as you have to have it under control each time you lower it. I find it is quite a useful tool for hypertrophy. You're unlikely to be able to properly TNG higher percentages. Dead-stop is very useful if your weakpoint is off the floor which it is for most people on conventional and I think is the best way to train low rep sets.
You don't have to lower it under control. In fact it's probably not going to be possible with every set but I certainly prefer to have some control as I'm doing it. I don't think it's something you have to deload for but have more of a focus on it during your warm-up sets.
Thanks for reply .
I do touch and go on days when I do higher reps alright it's much easier at lighter weight so that seems to fit in with what your saying . I'll try speed up as mellor suggested and have the bar ready to go. The bar pretty much is ready to go but I'm in all honesty probably sneaking in a tiny rest as it it very hard for me doing sets at that weight . Every week I'm setting new PR's not that it matters but it's hard to try new things grip change etc when lifting heavier than you did before so I might actually deload and take on the tips here .
I don't use chalk I use fingerless gloves I bought recently as my hands where getting welts from the bar , is chalk better than gloves ? Thanks0 -
I don't use chalk I use fingerless gloves I bought recently as my hands where getting welts from the bar , is chalk better than gloves ? Thanks
Definitely don't use gloves. They won't improve the grip and will just get pulled off your hand. Somehow fitness industry has gotten away with marketing this even though nobody strong actually uses them.
It's hard to explain what a difference chalk makes until you try it. It should be a non negotiable for heavy deadlifts. I'd recommend solid over liquid.
Chalk up and do mixed grip and you'll be good.0 -
A couple of things but most have already been covered:
You're stronger when you're lowering so just maintain some control and think about reversing the movement on the way down so that you end up in a the correct position to start the next rep. I've been guilty of just letting go of too much control once it's below my knees and then I'm having to get back into the correct position for the next rep.
I don't necessarily have an issue with TnG - though I prefer to come to a dead stop even on high rep sets - but it is important that you're not letting your shape get loose, which is something I see a lot of people do with TnG (myself probably included)...they lose shape at the bottom portion and they're starting the next rep with the wrong positions and that can get worse over reps. If you can 'reverse the movement' and keep the body as it should be throughout, then fill your boots.
Don't wear gloves. They will slide on your hands anyway. Your hands will toughen up anyway. Changing grip should help as the bar won't move as much in your hands and chalk as well. Liquid chalk or a chalk ball (less messy than a block of chalk)0 -
I’d be one of the people who’d disagree with that.the baby bull elephant wrote: »Finally you could just use straps. Some people may disagree but deadlift isn't really a grip exercise.
It’s primarily a hip exercise, but it’s also a very good grip strengthening exercise. I do all my war ups double over for that reason. The goal being to raise my double over limit as well as my mixed limit. It’s easy enough to get to a point where grip isn’t a limiting factor.
If you’ve no interest in powerlifting or grip then sure straps are useful.
And definitely chalk over gloves imo0 -
I think that’s essentially my issue with TnG. it’s not bad per se, I just often see it done badly. Either form breakdown as you describe. Or outright bouncing.Alf Veedersane wrote: »I don't necessarily have an issue with TnG - though I prefer to come to a dead stop even on high rep sets - but it is important that you're not letting your shape get loose, which is something I see a lot of people do with TnG (myself probably included)...they lose shape at the bottom portion and they're starting the next rep with the wrong positions and that can get worse over reps.0 -
Using straps is a bit like social smoking; You start off with good intentions but then it becomes a nasty habit.
Then you're the guy who can pull double bodyweight, but can't open a jar of pickles.
(Straps are actually grand if you don't get carried away)0 -
Thanks again for putting me on the right path I'll order liquid chalk now online , never heard of that stuff before and I'll try the reverse grip ðŸ‘0
-
Thanks again for putting me on the right path I'll order liquid chalk now online , never heard of that stuff before and I'll try the reverse grip ðŸ‘
Mixed grip should help your hands from the perspective that the bar shouldn't move in your hands, which is may have been doing when you used double-overhand.
A bottle of liquid chalk will last forever. You only need a tiny amount.0 -
Advertisement
-
I personally don't do touch and go deadlifts, but I also agree that if you're doing what some people call reset deadlifts you shouldn't hang around or instead of being a set of 5 it's more like some kind of cluster of singles. I don't release the bar, I just sort my breathing, set my back / take the slack out of the bar, and off we go again.
Objectively I agree that touch and go deadlifts can be legitimate - just a different way of training that if performed correctly trains concentric and eccentric more than deadlifts where there is an overly long reset, allows for more time under tension etc. But ... can we agree that most people doing touch and go deadlifts are usually bouncing the **** out of them?
It's also hard on the bar, hard on the plates and hard on the flooring. With a good bar, bumper plates and appropriate flooring it's not a big deal, but I've seen people doing them on hard surfaces, with iron plates and cheap bars.
It does seem like the OP's double overhand grip, issues on the eccentric, sense of fatigue on the last rep of each set and particularly the last set are all related. Depending on what the touch and go looks like, the grip is engaged for a longer period there as it's switched on continuously through all the concentric and eccentric of the whole set. Whereas with a reset, even if the hands don't leave the bar and the pause is brief, the grip is exerted mostly on the concentric and to a lesser extent on the eccentric.
Just to also throw out there that bar diameter and knurling play a role in how the whole grip thing plays out. If you have medium or aggressive knurling then it's easier to hold onto the bar with any grip. There's a big difference between a 28mm bar with decent knurling, even if it's a budget bar, compared to a really slick lightly knurled bar with a 30mm+ diameter. There are a lot of people out there whose home bars turn out to be 30-32mm. That's going to work the grip a lot more, especially double overhand!0
Advertisement