Random Fitness Questions

new2tri19 · 12-01-2021 12:04PM

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

As Mellor said double overhand will only take you so far. You basically have three options to use instead of it. The first is mixed grip which you've already used, as long as you aren't actively straining your bicep this grip is perfectly fine and probably what is used by the majority of people. I use it myself. Next you could learn hook grip. This basically uses your thumb as a barrier and is quite painful initially but allows you to keep both hands overhand which some people say helps them use their lats better. Finally you could just use straps. Some people may disagree but deadlift isn't really a grip exercise. If you have no plans of competing in powerlifiting it's totally fine to use straps.

Also if you aren't already using chalk it does make a big difference. If you're worried about a mess liquid chalk is much tidier.

So what you're describing with your reset is the difference between dead-stop and touch-and-go. Personally I think they both have there place in training. TNG isn't just bouncing the bar and is very useful for higher rep sets. It allows for greater time under tension as you have to have it under control each time you lower it. I find it is quite a useful tool for hypertrophy. You're unlikely to be able to properly TNG higher percentages. Dead-stop is very useful if your weakpoint is off the floor which it is for most people on conventional and I think is the best way to train low rep sets.

You don't have to lower it under control. In fact it's probably not going to be possible with every set but I certainly prefer to have some control as I'm doing it. I don't think it's something you have to deload for but have more of a focus on it during your warm-up sets.

Thanks for reply .
I do touch and go on days when I do higher reps alright it's much easier at lighter weight so that seems to fit in with what your saying . I'll try speed up as mellor suggested and have the bar ready to go. The bar pretty much is ready to go but I'm in all honesty probably sneaking in a tiny rest as it it very hard for me doing sets at that weight . Every week I'm setting new PR's not that it matters but it's hard to try new things grip change etc when lifting heavier than you did before so I might actually deload and take on the tips here .

I don't use chalk I use fingerless gloves I bought recently as my hands where getting welts from the bar , is chalk better than gloves ? Thanks

Cill94 · 12-01-2021 12:18PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

I don't use chalk I use fingerless gloves I bought recently as my hands where getting welts from the bar , is chalk better than gloves ? Thanks

Definitely don't use gloves. They won't improve the grip and will just get pulled off your hand. Somehow fitness industry has gotten away with marketing this even though nobody strong actually uses them.

It's hard to explain what a difference chalk makes until you try it. It should be a non negotiable for heavy deadlifts. I'd recommend solid over liquid.

Chalk up and do mixed grip and you'll be good.

Alf Veedersane · 12-01-2021 12:29PM

A couple of things but most have already been covered:

You're stronger when you're lowering so just maintain some control and think about reversing the movement on the way down so that you end up in a the correct position to start the next rep. I've been guilty of just letting go of too much control once it's below my knees and then I'm having to get back into the correct position for the next rep.

I don't necessarily have an issue with TnG - though I prefer to come to a dead stop even on high rep sets - but it is important that you're not letting your shape get loose, which is something I see a lot of people do with TnG (myself probably included)...they lose shape at the bottom portion and they're starting the next rep with the wrong positions and that can get worse over reps. If you can 'reverse the movement' and keep the body as it should be throughout, then fill your boots.

Don't wear gloves. They will slide on your hands anyway. Your hands will toughen up anyway. Changing grip should help as the bar won't move as much in your hands and chalk as well. Liquid chalk or a chalk ball (less messy than a block of chalk)

Mellor · 12-01-2021 12:32PM

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Finally you could just use straps. Some people may disagree but deadlift isn't really a grip exercise.

I’d be one of the people who’d disagree with that.
It’s primarily a hip exercise, but it’s also a very good grip strengthening exercise. I do all my war ups double over for that reason. The goal being to raise my double over limit as well as my mixed limit. It’s easy enough to get to a point where grip isn’t a limiting factor.

If you’ve no interest in powerlifting or grip then sure straps are useful.

And definitely chalk over gloves imo

Mellor · 12-01-2021 12:40PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't necessarily have an issue with TnG - though I prefer to come to a dead stop even on high rep sets - but it is important that you're not letting your shape get loose, which is something I see a lot of people do with TnG (myself probably included)...they lose shape at the bottom portion and they're starting the next rep with the wrong positions and that can get worse over reps.

I think that’s essentially my issue with TnG. it’s not bad per se, I just often see it done badly. Either form breakdown as you describe. Or outright bouncing.

Cill94 · 12-01-2021 12:43PM

Using straps is a bit like social smoking; You start off with good intentions but then it becomes a nasty habit.

Then you're the guy who can pull double bodyweight, but can't open a jar of pickles.

(Straps are actually grand if you don't get carried away)

new2tri19 · 12-01-2021 01:03PM

Thanks again for putting me on the right path I'll order liquid chalk now online , never heard of that stuff before and I'll try the reverse grip ðŸ‘

Alf Veedersane · 12-01-2021 01:23PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks again for putting me on the right path I'll order liquid chalk now online , never heard of that stuff before and I'll try the reverse grip ðŸ‘

Mixed grip should help your hands from the perspective that the bar shouldn't move in your hands, which is may have been doing when you used double-overhand.

A bottle of liquid chalk will last forever. You only need a tiny amount.

Black Sheep · 12-01-2021 01:45PM

I personally don't do touch and go deadlifts, but I also agree that if you're doing what some people call reset deadlifts you shouldn't hang around or instead of being a set of 5 it's more like some kind of cluster of singles. I don't release the bar, I just sort my breathing, set my back / take the slack out of the bar, and off we go again.

Objectively I agree that touch and go deadlifts can be legitimate - just a different way of training that if performed correctly trains concentric and eccentric more than deadlifts where there is an overly long reset, allows for more time under tension etc. But ... can we agree that most people doing touch and go deadlifts are usually bouncing the **** out of them?

It's also hard on the bar, hard on the plates and hard on the flooring. With a good bar, bumper plates and appropriate flooring it's not a big deal, but I've seen people doing them on hard surfaces, with iron plates and cheap bars.

It does seem like the OP's double overhand grip, issues on the eccentric, sense of fatigue on the last rep of each set and particularly the last set are all related. Depending on what the touch and go looks like, the grip is engaged for a longer period there as it's switched on continuously through all the concentric and eccentric of the whole set. Whereas with a reset, even if the hands don't leave the bar and the pause is brief, the grip is exerted mostly on the concentric and to a lesser extent on the eccentric.

Just to also throw out there that bar diameter and knurling play a role in how the whole grip thing plays out. If you have medium or aggressive knurling then it's easier to hold onto the bar with any grip. There's a big difference between a 28mm bar with decent knurling, even if it's a budget bar, compared to a really slick lightly knurled bar with a 30mm+ diameter. There are a lot of people out there whose home bars turn out to be 30-32mm. That's going to work the grip a lot more, especially double overhand!

Alf Veedersane · 12-01-2021 02:40PM

I hate straps on deadlifts. They're just off-putting.

12-01-2021 03:28PM

I lose the deadlifts close to the ground and feel like it's strength when I haven't put on chalk (for absolutely no reason) and it's grip fail
You have ordered chalk now so should make a massive difference between that and the mixed grip. What I mean is I would imagine it won't be an issue anymore

Cole · 12-01-2021 03:42PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks again for putting me on the right path I'll order liquid chalk now online , never heard of that stuff before and I'll try the reverse grip ðŸ‘

You'll wonder how you ever lifted without it...essential stuff.

With the mixed grip, I find having my underhand grip slightly wider than the overhand works well for me.

Black Sheep · 12-01-2021 04:45PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I hate straps on deadlifts. They're just off-putting.

I only like quick release ones, I don't like the proper ones.

Alf Veedersane · 12-01-2021 05:17PM

Black Sheep wrote: »

I only like quick release ones, I don't like the proper ones.

Quick release being the figure 8 ones?

I could see how they might be a lot less of a nuisance.

Black Sheep · 12-01-2021 06:25PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Quick release being the figure 8 ones?

I could see how they might be a lot less of a nuisance.

The ones I have from Ironmind are even more minimal, but I guess they work the same way: https://www.ironmind-store.com/Sew-Easy-Lifting-Straps153/productinfo/1437/

the baby bull elephant · 12-01-2021 08:17PM

https://youtu.be/kb8GUnqmiks

Timely video from Alan Thrall.

new2tri19 · 12-01-2021 08:45PM

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

https://youtu.be/kb8GUnqmiks

Timely video from Alan Thrall.

Excellent video thanks for sharing

SmashingPilot · 18-01-2021 02:05PM

Hey, does anyone know of somewhere I can pick up a 10KG kettlebell this week?

Acey10 · 18-01-2021 08:44PM

SmashingPilot wrote: »

Hey, does anyone know of somewhere I can pick up a 10KG kettlebell this week?

mr price have some in stock in Artane, not sure about size though.

paw patrol · 19-01-2021 10:46AM

Cill94 wrote: »

Using straps is a bit like social smoking; You start off with good intentions but then it becomes a nasty habit.

Then you're the guy who can pull double bodyweight, but can't open a jar of pickles.

(Straps are actually grand if you don't get carried away)

but i can do both :pac:
I use straps on any deadlift over 120kg , I don't like the mixed grip ,so straps it is.

If you do other exercises to a decent degree of intensity like farmers walk or even pull ups/rows , I think your grip will be fine.

Mellor · 19-01-2021 11:41AM

paw patrol wrote: »

but i can do both :pac:
I use straps on any deadlift over 120kg , I don't like the mixed grip ,so straps it is.

If you do other exercises to a decent degree of intensity like farmers walk or even pull ups/rows , I think your grip will be fine.

I think “decent degree of intensity” is all very relative though.

Cill94 · 19-01-2021 12:14PM

paw patrol wrote: »

but i can do both :pac:
I use straps on any deadlift over 120kg , I don't like the mixed grip ,so straps it is.

If you do other exercises to a decent degree of intensity like farmers walk or even pull ups/rows , I think your grip will be fine.

It just depends on your goals.

I want a strong grip, but I care more about deadlifting as much as possible. So I occasionally put straps on when my grip becomes a limiting factor (usually just high rep sets). Hook grip for heavy sets of 5+ is a bad time.

paw patrol · 19-01-2021 03:28PM

Mellor wrote: »

I think “decent degree of intensity” is all very relative though.

isn't is always !
I probably meant hard long sets close to failure.

Cill94 wrote: »

It just depends on your goals.

I want a strong grip, but I care more about deadlifting as much as possible. So I occasionally put straps on when my grip becomes a limiting factor (usually just high rep sets). Hook grip for heavy sets of 5+ is a bad time.

For sure! Whatever works.
I tried hook grip once....fcuk that...no interest in getting used to it.

calfmuscle · 20-01-2021 11:54AM

In relation to the deadlift, I've small hands and my fingers slip regardless of grip once over 90kg. I find using the 15 kg bar much better. The more narrow width let's my fingers wrap right around it. Straps are OK but the skinnier bar is the easiest for me.

Cill94 · 20-01-2021 11:58AM

paw patrol wrote: »

isn't is always !

I tried hook grip once....fcuk that...no interest in getting used to it.

I found a big difference in grip strength once I got used to it. I'd never go back.

Not without its drawbacks though. Temporarily lost feeling at the top of one of my thumbs after a heavy set of 5 a couple years ago.

Alf Veedersane · 20-01-2021 12:47PM

Cill94 wrote: »

I found a big difference in grip strength once I got used to it. I'd never go back.

Not without its drawbacks though. Temporarily lost feeling at the top of one of my thumbs after a heavy set of 5 a couple years ago.

I can only assume it was a bad time in your life when you hated yourself that you decided to try hook grip... :pac:

Just out of interest, did you ever have an issue with mixed grip strength on deadlift?

Cill94 · 20-01-2021 03:44PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I can only assume it was a bad time in your life when you hated yourself that you decided to try hook grip... :pac:

Just out of interest, did you ever have an issue with mixed grip strength on deadlift?

Yeah I missed a few max attempts due to grip strength when I was using mixed. Added about 30kg to my pull since then and it's never been an issue since.

I also saw a few video compilations of deadlift bicep tears that made the thumb pain a much easier pill to swallow.

new2tri19 · 21-02-2021 08:37PM

Hi guys hope your training is going well got some great advice here and packed on some muscle and fat ( let's not talk about that !) But yeah I gained alot of weight got up to 86kg . The side said to me I looked better before

I started to look pudgy.

So did some research and got on my fitness Pal and it was an eye opener tracking everything I'm still tracking and have been on a cut for the last 5-6 weeks I got a bit aggressive with it starting at 1750kcal and doing cardio 2 hours a day on top of weights . Dropped fairly quick to 81kg so bumped my calories up to 2500 and losing about 0.5kg a week currently at 77-78kg. Fearful of losing muscle so eating protein at 1gramme per pound of body weight a day. I'm happy with how it's going starting to get some good definition and realising you don't have to be huge to he ripped.

Anyway long post there just wondered should I take creatine ? Negatives seem to be hair loss and thirst issues , positives muscular endurance ? Also on a cut some days lifting I feel low energy I see people talk of taking caffeine pre lift or coke zero or monster energy , do these work ? Are they worth it ?

Thanks

the baby bull elephant · 21-02-2021 10:12PM

new2tri19 wrote: »

Hi guys hope your training is going well got some great advice here and packed on some muscle and fat ( let's not talk about that !) But yeah I gained alot of weight got up to 86kg . The side said to me I looked better before I started to look pudgy.

So did some research and got on my fitness Pal and it was an eye opener tracking everything I'm still tracking and have been on a cut for the last 5-6 weeks I got a bit aggressive with it starting at 1750kcal and doing cardio 2 hours a day on top of weights . Dropped fairly quick to 81kg so bumped my calories up to 2500 and losing about 0.5kg a week currently at 77-78kg. Fearful of losing muscle so eating protein at 1gramme per pound of body weight a day. I'm happy with how it's going starting to get some good definition and realising you don't have to be huge to he ripped.

Anyway long post there just wondered should I take creatine ? Negatives seem to be hair loss and thirst issues , positives muscular endurance ? Also on a cut some days lifting I feel low energy I see people talk of taking caffeine pre lift or coke zero or monster energy , do these work ? Are they worth it ?

Thanks

Stronger by Science has really good long form articles on both caffeine and creatine.

Creatine I would always advise people to take. As far as I'm aware the hair loss thing is based off of one not so great study. It is the best legal supplement.

Caffeine is more personal preference. I think it does make a small difference for me. Mostly around endurance. I'm not taking any at the moment without access to a gym. Again personal preference but it's probably cheaper to get it through coffee or a tablet.

Cill94 · 22-02-2021 01:12PM

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Creatine I would always advise people to take. As far as I'm aware the hair loss thing is based off of one not so great study.

Yeah, the hair loss thing is completely unfounded. I wasn't aware of this being a thing that people believed until a client asked me about it. I did some research and it does indeed stem from a single 2009 study on rugby players.

However the study did not measure hair loss at all. It only measured increases in the androgen DHT, elevations of which is related to hair loss.

The funny thing that everyone seems to have missed is that training itself also increases DHT (quite a bit). So either training makes you go bald or creatine is probably fine.

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