Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Shelflife · 11-01-2021 09:09PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why are this mob being given taxpayer money?

Do we not have a Dept of Health that speaks up on health related matters?

HSE fund them.

They are a registered charity.

Pythagorean · 11-01-2021 09:34PM

Not only have the killjoys taken away one of the few cost savers for the hard pressed customer, but they have forced supermarkets to install ridiculous and pointless swing doors to cordon off the drinks section. It seems that a new form of Puritanism is beginning to affect policy decisions, which should be based on reason, not on silly ideas like this.

Antares35 · 11-01-2021 10:18PM

I can't drink at the moment but when I can (and hopefully when we see the back of covid) I'll be going to France to fill up. Even if it costs the same or slightly more than it would have here, I'd do it just so as not to give the fúckers a cent.

KrustyUCC · 11-01-2021 10:18PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Everybody in the Dail has somebody directly or indirectly associated with the pub trade. Currently we have the highest prices for alcohol in Europe. When the Minimum pricing legislation is enforced, it will be double that again.
It's all hyperbole. They don't give a monkeys about anybody's health.
This is Fine Gaels stance in black and white.

Exactly

They could enact no below cost selling and it would still be cheaper than MUP so they're going even further than they were originally going

That Fine Gael proposal to save the pubs is now being dressed up as a public health measure

kenmc · 11-01-2021 10:32PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

Here's where they live!

Alcohol Action Ireland
Coleraine House
Coleraine Street
Dublin

Write them a letter. Everybody. NB, not an email. Give them something to trip over in the morning!

Money be better spent gofundme-ing all the stamp money together and buying them 1-way tickets off the planet.

Capt'n Midnight · 11-01-2021 10:56PM

Shelflife wrote: »

HSE fund them.

They are a registered charity.

So they take more money from the HSE than will be raised for the HSE by all these new measures, even the proposed ones ?

11-01-2021 11:31PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Exactly

They could enact no below cost selling and it would still be cheaper than MUP so they're going even further than they were originally going

That Fine Gael proposal to save the pubs is now being dressed up as a public health measure

I'll ask the question again.

If FG are so inclined to save the pubs why have they kept them shut for the best part of a year ?

We've heard plenty from the LVF and the VFI over the past months pleading to be allowed open again and about how pubs are safer than house parties etc yet the government (FG being a common denominator in both governments) have not budged.

Mimon · 11-01-2021 11:42PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]
I'll ask the question again.

If FG are so inclined to save the pubs why have they kept them shut for the best part of a year ?

We've heard plenty from the LVF and the VFI over the past months pleading to be allowed open again and about how pubs are safer than house parties etc yet the government (FG being a common denominator in both governments) have not budged.

Shows that they are taking a pandemic caused by a virus that spreads like wildfire in social settings seriously and have no choice but to close them.

Not sure what kind of answer you are looking for, it seems pretty obvious.

L1011 · 12-01-2021 07:38PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Exactly

They could enact no below cost selling and it would still be cheaper than MUP so they're going even further than they were originally going

That Fine Gael proposal to save the pubs is now being dressed up as a public health measure

Banning below cost selling might put the price of a super-discounted slab up a few quid (if even) and would mostly hit the cheapest spirits and wines in supermarkets; nothing else. Lidl are losing money on their 13 quid gin and 3.50 wine for instance.

That wouldn't satisfy the neo-prohibitionists enough; although it might shut the publicans up (briefly).

And who allowed below-cost selling of alcohol, which had been illegal for decades? Michael Martin!

patrickbrophy18 · 12-01-2021 08:49PM

Once again, punish the many for the mistakes of the few. Now, this proposal is obviously nothing new as it was passed into law about 2 years ago. It originated as a way to tackle the below cost selling of alcohol to keep the pub trade in business as per the Fine Gael manifesto of 2011 which is referenced above. I've also provided a link to the original manifesto below.

Over the years, they changed the wording of it by imbuing it with a social justice message in the form of public health and safety.

COVID has acted as a distraction of sorts to rush these measures through alright. It was also introduced along with the no take-away pints rule resulting in many people thinking it is part of the same set of measures.

Either way, the consumer is being punished. I'm a firm believer or free market capitalism and alcohol should be no exception. Suffice to say, I certainly know who I won't be voting for in future elections. This is just one out of many examples of virtue signalling from the Dail.

http://michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/docs/fg/Fine%20Gael%20GE%202011.pdf

Thelonious Monk · 12-01-2021 10:41PM

Who can you vote for, they were all in favour of this?

Mimon · 12-01-2021 10:43PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

Until minimum unit pricing comes in! :mad:

Won't affect craft beers. It is to target being able to get a can of piss lager for 70c.

elperello · 12-01-2021 10:56PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who can you vote for, they were all in favour of this?

True, they all think it will be best for us to pay more for our drink.

The only voice raised against it was in the Senate where Prof Sean Barrett from Trinity pointed out the folly of gifting the extra we will pay to the drinks trade.

Being an economist he saw through the nonsense.

As to who to vote for, maybe pick an Independent with an outside chance and hope for he best.

ohnonotgmail · 12-01-2021 11:11PM

Mimon wrote: »

Won't affect craft beers. It is to target being able to get a can of piss lager for 70c.

It will effect everything. if the price of the cheapest beer goes up they will raise the price of more expensive beers to maintain the price differential.

elperello · 12-01-2021 11:20PM

Mimon wrote: »

Won't affect craft beers. It is to target being able to get a can of piss lager for 70c.

We won't know for sure until they set the price.

It could affect drinks up the price range.

Besides, a bit of solidarity wouldn't go astray, if some one wants to drink cheap lager that's their business

Furthermore during the recent Christmas sales some very popular brands were sold very cheap.

10000maniacs · 13-01-2021 12:48AM

I wonder what the EU think of price fixing like this in a single market?
I'm sure the German and Polish brewers like Bavaria and Tyskie would have something to say about it.
I sure would if I were them.

AllForIt · 13-01-2021 01:08AM

As a health issue I'm conflicted on this one.

On the one hand I do think the state should step in and tackle the obesity crisis through taxation.

And alcohol is a massive factor in obesity. Drinking high calorie drinks is one of the worst things you can do for your weight and health. You can pile on the pounds without eating anything.

But i'm uncomfortable with targeting a specific highly calorific product such as alcohol. It would be no different that targeting sausages or fried chicken or any other specific food product. And I would argue eating crappy food day in day out is far worse than a weekend alcohol binge.

edit: those that have an alcohol problem, those that drink most days, well that's a substance abuse issue, and I don't think that can be fixed by simply raising the minimum alcohol pricing.

Mimon · 13-01-2021 01:19AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It will effect everything. if the price of the cheapest beer goes up they will raise the price of more expensive beers to maintain the price differential.

The way he was talking it would directly effect them which it won't. You are just guessing what might happen.

Mimon · 13-01-2021 01:21AM

elperello wrote: »

We won't know for sure until they set the price.

It could affect drinks up the price range.

Besides, a bit of solidarity wouldn't go astray, if some one wants to drink cheap lager that's their business

Furthermore during the recent Christmas sales some very popular brands were sold very cheap.

The 70 cent lagers are definitely not good for anyone's health. Glow in the dark from Chernobyl grown barley :pac:

Geuze · 13-01-2021 01:21AM

10000maniacs wrote: »

I'm sure the German and Polish brewers like Bavaria and Tyskie

Bavaria is Dutch, although I don't know why a Dutch brewer has the same name as a state in Germany

https://swinkelsfamilybrewers.com/en/about-us/our-manifesto.html

Geuze · 13-01-2021 01:26AM

AllForIt wrote: »

As a health issue I'm conflicted on this one.

On the one hand I do think the state should step in and tackle the obesity crisis through taxation.

And alcohol is a massive factor in obesity. Drinking high calorie drinks is one of the worst things you can do for your weight and health. You can pile on the pounds without eating anything.

There is zero fat in beer.

I read a Beamish label recently, and was happy to see 0% fat and 0% sugar.

Yes, beer is full of calories, yes.

But I wonder is beer such a contributor to obesity?

Part of the problem, yes.

A major part of the problem, I don't think so?

I would point the finger more at:

chocolate
pizzas loaded with cheese
pies
pastries
etc., etc.

I suspect beer contributes to obesity more in men than women?

PTH2009 · 13-01-2021 01:33AM

places selling cans/bottles for €1-€4 each some of which would of been in the 3/4 for €10 etc

This new rule is such an annoyance and a bit pointless

13-01-2021 07:20AM

10000maniacs wrote: »

I wonder what the EU think of price fixing like this in a single market?
I'm sure the German and Polish brewers like Bavaria and Tyskie would have something to say about it.
I sure would if I were them.

Scotland introduced MUP a few years ago and I believe there were a number of EU investigations and court cases about it's validity before it was finally introduced.

Bass Reeves · 13-01-2021 09:12AM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

AllForIt wrote: »

As a health issue I'm conflicted on this one.

On the one hand I do think the state should step in and tackle the obesity crisis through taxation.

And alcohol is a massive factor in obesity. Drinking high calorie drinks is one of the worst things you can do for your weight and health. You can pile on the pounds without eating anything.

But i'm uncomfortable with targeting a specific highly calorific product such as alcohol. It would be no different that targeting sausages or fried chicken or any other specific food product. And I would argue eating crappy food day in day out is far worse than a weekend alcohol binge.

edit: those that have an alcohol problem, those that drink most days, well that's a substance abuse issue, and I don't think that can be fixed by simply raising the minimum alcohol pricing.

I agree that minimum pricing will not stop those that have an issue. However if we look back at the way smoking was reduced it was something similar. 50 years ago a portion of the population smoked. It took 50 years of a combination of measures to reduce smoking to where it is now.

I agree the obesity issue needs to be tackled as well. See the way come has reduced there can size and priced it below a euro in Convience shops. This is targeting children more than anything else.

ohnonotgmail · 13-01-2021 09:22AM

AllForIt wrote: »

As a health issue I'm conflicted on this one.

On the one hand I do think the state should step in and tackle the obesity crisis through taxation.

And alcohol is a massive factor in obesity. Drinking high calorie drinks is one of the worst things you can do for your weight and health. You can pile on the pounds without eating anything.

But i'm uncomfortable with targeting a specific highly calorific product such as alcohol. It would be no different that targeting sausages or fried chicken or any other specific food product. And I would argue eating crappy food day in day out is far worse than a weekend alcohol binge.

edit: those that have an alcohol problem, those that drink most days, well that's a substance abuse issue, and I don't think that can be fixed by simply raising the minimum alcohol pricing.

if they did want to increase prices to stop people drinking as much they could raise excise duty. at least that way the extra money would go to the government not to the shops. But they wont do that because it would affect the pub trade as well and the publicans lobby is too strong.

ohnonotgmail · 13-01-2021 09:22AM

Mimon wrote: »

The way he was talking it would directly effect them which it won't. You are just guessing what might happen.

it is an educated guess.

10000maniacs · 13-01-2021 11:31AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Scotland introduced MUP a few years ago and I believe there were a number of EU investigations and court cases about it's validity before it was finally introduced.

Scotland were pencilled in for leaving the EU via Brexit at that stage. It could be a different story with Ireland.

10000maniacs · 13-01-2021 11:36AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I agree that minimum pricing will not stop those that have an issue. However if we look back at the way smoking was reduced it was something similar. 50 years ago a portion of the population smoked. It took 50 years of a combination of measures to reduce smoking to where it is now.

I agree the obesity issue needs to be tackled as well. See the way come has reduced there can size and priced it below a euro in Convience shops. This is targeting children more than anything else.

Smoking and drinking are two different health concerns. Smoking has no redeeming features whatsoever, while beer and wine drinking have nutritional benefits if taken in moderation. They won't do any damage to your system unless you go overboard with them.

ohnonotgmail · 13-01-2021 11:40AM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Smoking and drinking are two different health concerns. Smoking has no redeeming features whatsoever, while beer and wine drinking have nutritional benefits if taken in moderation. They won't do any damage to your system unless you go overboard with them.

they also have social benefits if taken in moderation.

13-01-2021 12:11PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Scotland were pencilled in for leaving the EU via Brexit at that stage. It could be a different story with Ireland.

The Scottish legislation was first introduced in 2012
The ECJ made their first ruling on it in Dec 2015

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-35160396

Both before Brexit was even a word.

Brexit had nothing to do with it.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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