Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

fin12 · 10-01-2021 08:25PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

They are fine, they can catch the virus but they won't get sick from it.

It hasn't yet been fully established that they can't transmit the virus to others though.

So they still get the virus? Makes no sense.

Like any vaccine I’ve heard of in the past prevents u from getting whatever it is ur trying to prevent from getting, , take the HPV vaccine , that prevents you from getting the hpv virus.

This vaccine sounds strange.

John O.Groats · 10-01-2021 08:50PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

That's fantastic. Vaccinate everyone and see what happens whether you can still transmit it or not. And they call people who question the validity of the vaccine crazy conspiracy theorists.

If the (tinfoil) hat fits then wear it. As you do so well.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-01-2021 09:29PM

fin12 wrote: »

So they still get the virus? Makes no sense.

Like any vaccine I’ve heard of in the past prevents u from getting whatever it is ur trying to prevent from getting, , take the HPV vaccine , that prevents you from getting the hpv virus.

This vaccine sounds strange.

It wouldn’t be strange IF everyone was already vaccinated. Then they could pass it on, but nobody would get sick from it so no problem.

Once everyone is vaccinated then it won’t matter whether you can still transmit it or not.

The other question is how long the vaccine gives immunity. It might be a lifetime, it might need a Topup every decade, or it might only last 6 months and we’ll be in a constant cycle of vaccination. Or the virus might mutate so the vaccine doesn’t work on it and we’re back to square 1.

All we can do is wait and see.

Spanishpoint · 10-01-2021 10:47PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

God, I'd love 8 pints and good company right now.

I cannot agree more with you lol

SAMTALK · 11-01-2021 11:55AM

MOH wrote: »

Absolutely.

Tony tells us "this virus loves alcohol". Which is weird, because we'd all been told since March to use hand sanitiser with a high alcohol content to kill it.

Never mind the fact that the July reopening of restaurants and food pubs (and even the pubs I'd be happy to see go which took the absolute piste out of the regulations) had a negligible effect on numbers.

There's zero evidence that pubs operating under the same restrictions as restaurants and food pubs has any effect on the numbers, and therefore zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed open under the same restrictions. A fact which even the Tanaiste acknowledged back in (September? October?), when he said they'd be allowed open unless there was a general lockdown.

So as soon as it's safe on a wider basis to start reopening society, there is no covid-related reason to treat pubs differently.

If you actually don't get this I despair

HeidiHeidi · 11-01-2021 11:57AM

SAMTALK wrote: »

If you actually don't get this I despair

I'd forgotten about that one!

Possibly the most ridiculous thing I've seen in these threads, and that's saying something :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09 · 11-01-2021 12:21PM

SAMTALK wrote: »

If you actually don't get this I despair

I presume they do actually get it. Pretending not to understand the issues is a very important part of the “open the pubs” argument.

If you ask them directly, you’ll find posters who claim they don’t know why the pubs are closed. They’ll go through a range of reasons including conspiracy theories and will completely ignore the actual issues.

I had a few chats about this a few pages back. I just wanted to know how far some people would go to deny the obvious reality that the virus spreads well in indoor environments where people gather and bunch up. And when people drink they become more likely to flout distancing guidelines. They will twist themselves in knots and embrace conspiracy theories to avoid the simple, obvious facts.

SAMTALK · 11-01-2021 12:46PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I presume they do actually get it. Pretending not to understand the issues is a very important part of the “open the pubs” argument.

If you ask them directly, you’ll find posters who claim they don’t know why the pubs are closed. They’ll go through a range of reasons including conspiracy theories and will completely ignore the actual issues.

I had a few chats about this a few pages back. I just wanted to know how far some people would go to deny the obvious reality that the virus spreads well in indoor environments where people gather and bunch up. And when people drink they become more likely to flout distancing guidelines. They will twist themselves in knots and embrace conspiracy theories to avoid the simple, obvious facts.

A doctor from James was on Newstalk this morning and when asked how she felt about the people out walking in the Wicklow mountains , she said she had a bigger issue seeing restaurants and gastro pubs open before christmas.

I like nothing more than meeting my friends having a chat and catchup over a few drinks but i know it cant be a safe environment especially after a few drinks

Barbers and hairdressers have to be a safer environment and yet people are more up in arms about pubs

ginoginelli · 11-01-2021 01:03PM

SAMTALK wrote: »

A doctor from James was on Newstalk this morning and when asked how she felt about the people out walking in the Wicklow mountains , she said she had a bigger issue seeing restaurants and gastro pubs open before christmas.

I like nothing more than meeting my friends having a chat and catchup over a few drinks but i know it cant be a safe environment especially after a few drinks

Barbers and hairdressers have to be a safer environment and yet people are more up in arms about pubs

I think he even most ardent 'open the pubs' supports have finally stopped denying the dangers by now.

Let's face it, whoever is still talking about opening the pubs at this stage just isnt the full shilling.

11-01-2021 01:17PM

ginoginelli wrote: »

I think he even most ardent 'open the pubs' supports have finally stopped denying the dangers by now.

Let's face it, whoever is still talking about opening the pubs at this stage just isnt the full shilling.

Not too many are looking for the pubs to reopen now but people need to stop blaming pubs and restaurants for the rise in cases

El_Duderino 09 · 11-01-2021 01:25PM

ginoginelli wrote: »

I think he even most ardent 'open the pubs' supports have finally stopped denying the dangers by now.

Let's face it, whoever is still talking about opening the pubs at this stage just isnt the full shilling.

They’ve dropped calling for pubs to open, but they don’t accept how obviously wrong it was to call for pubs to open in December. And they’ll be calling for pubs to reopen in a few weeks when things settle down a bit.

They don’t tend to acknowledge the reasons why it’s not sensible to reopen bits right now, so they don’t acknowledge the reasons in a few weeks either.

I can’t wait for it to be over so we I can go for a few pints with the lads. But I won’t argue that it’s over when it isn’t, or argue that the pubs should open when they shouldn’t. It’s a matter of separating what I want to be true from what’s actually true.

Tenzor07 · 11-01-2021 01:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not too many are looking for the pubs to reopen now but people need to stop blaming pubs and restaurants for the rise in cases

Only the business owners and employee's.... A shutdown of any business for what will be 13+ months is fatal for the Irish pub... and costly for workers in terms of lost earnings, and the state in terms of payments.. but ho hum, Paddy will just take it lying down...

11-01-2021 01:44PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Only the business owners and employee's.... A shutdown of any business for what will be 13+ months is fatal for the Irish pub... and costly for workers in terms of lost earnings, and the state in terms of payments.. but ho hum, Paddy will just take it lying down...

Pubs and small businesses have been treated terrible during this pandemic. Some of them will never open. I have a friend who works in the hospitality trade who is struggling to pay there mortgage. Have been out of work for nearly a year. The pub opened for 2 weeks and then closed again

SAMTALK · 11-01-2021 01:45PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Only the business owners and employee's.... A shutdown of any business for what will be 13+ months is fatal for the Irish pub... and costly for workers in terms of lost earnings, and the state in terms of payments.. but ho hum, Paddy will just take it lying down...

A lot of business are in this position TBF, but I've read about 4 times as many posts on social media re pubs than any other business

Richard Hillman · 11-01-2021 02:01PM

If pubs were open I would still go.

weldoninhio · 11-01-2021 02:03PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If pubs were open I would still go.

Still open in Madrid apparently. Was a lad on Nova this morning talking about the snow and said pubs and restaurants were still open.

PommieBast · 11-01-2021 02:08PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Only the business owners and employee's.... A shutdown of any business for what will be 13+ months is fatal for the Irish pub... and costly for workers in terms of lost earnings, and the state in terms of payments.. but ho hum, Paddy will just take it lying down...

The prediction was that 60% in Dublin would go bust if they stayed closed until 2021. Well 2021 is here...

ginoginelli · 11-01-2021 02:09PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They’ve dropped calling for pubs to open, but they don’t accept how obviously wrong it was to call for pubs to open in December. And they’ll be calling for pubs to reopen in a few weeks when things settle down a bit.

They don’t tend to acknowledge the reasons why it’s not sensible to reopen bits right now, so they don’t acknowledge the reasons in a few weeks either.

I can’t wait for it to be over so we I can go for a few pints with the lads. But I won’t argue that it’s over when it isn’t, or argue that the pubs should open when they shouldn’t. It’s a matter of separating what I want to be true from what’s actually true.

They're delusional. If they still dont realize how wrong it was theres obviously some sort of mental deficiency there.

We do have a resposiblity as a society to protect these people from themselves though, but the goverment and many vinters/restaurants failed to protect them and us.

They choose a quick cheap buck over peoples well being. Unlike the patrons, these people aren't stupid, they knew full well the dangers of cramming people indoors with no masks and alcohol. They didn't care. Money was always the priority, if a few people got sick or died, so be it.

BringBackMick · 11-01-2021 02:10PM

Behave yourselves boys and girls

Tenzor07 · 11-01-2021 02:21PM

PommieBast wrote: »

The prediction was that 60% in Dublin would go bust if they stayed closed until 2021. Well 2021 is here...

The current full lockdown I don't think was expected... and the year is still young... rents and taxes on premises are to be paid so I expect that a lot of licenses will be transferred/Sold, leases cancelled.... I'm sure there's a big Pub chain who'll hoover up in the sales...

El_Duderino 09 · 11-01-2021 02:42PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pubs and small businesses have been treated terrible during this pandemic. Some of them will never open. I have a friend who works in the hospitality trade who is struggling to pay there mortgage. Have been out of work for nearly a year. The pub opened for 2 weeks and then closed again

Apart from the government borrowing and giving the money to businesses, what else could they have done? We’ll all be paying tax to repay the money borrowed during this period. How much more tax do you think we should pay by I borrow even more to give even more to businesses that might or might not survive the pandemic closures and the recession that’s most likely coming?

I don’t mind paying tax for good reasons. I don’t mind paying tax to bail out other people’s businesses during this pandemic. But I think it would be a much harder case to make than you’re suggesting.

What else should government have done?

doublejobbing 2 · 11-01-2021 03:43PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They’ve dropped calling for pubs to open, but they don’t accept how obviously wrong it was to call for pubs to open in December.

Only because the government got it completely arseways. If anything they should have been open continously from May and shut in the lead up to Christmas for a few weeks. Locking them near continuously created a pressure valve.

Some people, for whatever reason, don't go to pubs much all year. For some it is because the wife won't let them.

After keeping the whole sector shut, or partially shut, for the majority of the year since March, completely at odds with anywhere else in the Western world, we were tossed a bone at December.

Yes, people were having work break up drinks, in groups of anywhere from 8 to 20. And catch ups with friends. Some of these friends, the government allowed fly in from abroad.

I turned down two of these invites prior to Christmas Eve. I wanted to go but was seeing potentially vulnerable family/ family who work in the care sector. I still regret not going in a way but I didn't want to live with the drama of bringing it to Christmas Dinner, from the lifting to Christmas Eve all I got out was three Saturday's out with herself. Still have the calender marked with the dates I was meant to get out between the 27th and the 2nd.

When you have a government that lied to people all year about the source of the virus (travel being 2% and all that bollix), a government that exaggerated the severity of the virus (daily stories on RTE about the tiny proportion of young people suffering "long Covid"), a government/ local councils that attempted to use the virus to force through unpopular legislation (minimum alcohol pricing, 30kph speed limits in Dublin), a public health body using the virus as cover to smash our alcohol culture and replace it with the European model of food and two drinks on a 2 hour visit, people will get complacent and doubtful. And will throw caution to the wind, because they no longer believe any of it.

The two sessions I turned down, I made an excuse that I had stuff to get done early the next day. I was too afraid of my mates laughing at me if they thought I still listened to what Holohan and Harris were coming out with.

And they’ll be calling for pubs to reopen in a few weeks when things settle down a bit.
.

There is no reason why when we get to the level per 100,000 at which pubs in the UK, Germany, France, Holland etc etc etc all reopened last spring/ summer, that we should not be considering the same, at least on a regional basis. With enforced distancing, and minus this food nonsense.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-01-2021 04:33PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Only because the government got it completely arseways. If anything they should have been open continously from May and shut in the lead up to Christmas for a few weeks. Locking them near continuously created a pressure valve.
...

Yes, people were having work break up drinks, in groups of anywhere from 8 to 20. And catch ups with friends. Some of these friends, the government allowed fly in from abroad.

...

The two sessions I turned down, I made an excuse that I had stuff to get done early the next day. I was too afraid of my mates laughing at me if they thought I still listened to what Holohan and Harris were coming out with.

...

There’s a lot in that last post but these bits stood out. I think you make the case that we can’t rely on personal responsibility because enough people will decide that ridiculously irresponsible behaviour is fine.

People having Christmas parties in December really does agree with you that we should have had the pubs open all summer and closed them when the numbers went back up. I think the government was unsure of which approx they were taking. If hey had known when what effect the seasons (it’s effect on temperature and people’s behaviour) then I’d say they would have had much fewer restrictions in summer and earlier restrictions towards the end of the year.

I think this year they will allow far more freedom during the summer and see how effective the vaccine is next autumn and winter

But the bit that really stood out from your post was that you were afraid of appearing to listen to government advice. That really explodes the myth of personal responsibility. The government didn’t invent the method of transmission for the virus. Personal responsibility would mean ignoring the person giving the information and acting in accordance with the information.

If simply telling your friends that you’re seeing vulnerable people over Christmas and you didn’t want to take any risks for their sake, isn’t being taken onboard by people, then there’s no way I trust people to take personal responsibility and behave well.

doublejobbing 2 · 11-01-2021 04:48PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But the bit that really stood out from your post was that you were afraid of appearing to listen to government advice. That really explodes the myth of personal responsibility. The government didn’t invent the method of transmission for the virus. Personal responsibility would mean ignoring the person giving the information and acting in accordance with the information.

It is now considered embarrassing among most people in our society to say you fully believe the government narrative. I don't believe what Holohan and Harris say as they have lied to us before. Most prominently regarding travel.

The government failing to stop the nonsense of counting people who die with Covid, rather than of Covid, is key to this. The general public no longer believe the full narrative. The general public believe that NPHET are using the situation to end pubs as we know it.

The government sowed the seeds of mistrust, then acts surprised when people don't listen to them.

Individuals can be fined for going 5km from home, but Mehole won't face prosecution for leaving the border open, particularly over Christmas. What sense does that make? We have now had nearly 12 months to shut our borders and kill this thing within a month of doing so, and we have all but failed to do this.

PommieBast · 11-01-2021 05:07PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The current full lockdown I don't think was expected... and the year is still young... rents and taxes on premises are to be paid so I expect that a lot of licenses will be transferred/Sold, leases cancelled.... I'm sure there's a big Pub chain who'll hoover up in the sales...

I'm in no doubt that many/most pubs are already not going concerns. Only question is how long the can gets kicked down the road.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-01-2021 05:12PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

It is now considered embarrassing among most people in our society to say you fully believe the government narrative. I don't believe what Holohan and Harris say as they have lied to us before. Most prominently regarding travel.
...

So if you don’t believe what the government says because the government said it, where do you (or the young people you’re referring to) get your information?

Can you see how the attitude you’re describing means we can absolutely not leave it up to people to take personal responsibility?

doublejobbing 2 · 11-01-2021 05:27PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So if you don’t believe what the government says because the government said it, where do you (or the young people you’re referring to) get your information?

Can you see how the attitude you’re describing means we can absolutely not leave it up to people to take personal responsibility?

My government was claiming throughout August, September, when cases were slowly climbing, that only 2% were related to travel.

That is a complete and utter lie. They are implying that if we had stopped foreign travel, that we would still have went from 9 odd daily cases in July to just 2 percent less than the 8000, 7000, 5500s we have had this week.

If they are going to lie on this what else will they lie about?

El_Duderino 09 · 11-01-2021 05:29PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

My government was claiming throughout August, September, when cases were slowly climbing, that only 2% were related to travel.

That is a complete and utter lie. They are implying that if we had stopped foreign travel, that we would still have went from 9 odd daily cases in July to just 2 percent less than the 8000, 7000, 5500s we have had this week.

If they are going to lie on this what else will they lie about?

Ok but the questions I asked you were: “ So if you don’t believe what the government says because the government said it, where do you (or the young people you’re referring to) get your information?

Can you see how the attitude you’re describing means we can absolutely not leave it up to people to take personal responsibility?”

If you don’t believe government then where do you get your covid info?

Do you understand how the attitude you’re describing means there’s absolutely no way we can rely on people to exercise personal responsibility?

boombang · 11-01-2021 06:30PM

Ireland has the highest COVID rates worldwide.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0111/1188856-ireland-covid-latest/

A great achievement of lobbying over prudence in my view. I don't place Tony & co on a pedestal, but I think it was clearly a mistake for Leo and co to open up.

pottokblue · 11-01-2021 06:47PM

as far as I could see nothing open today when I was looking for a medicinal whisky post walk, I had two at home and added cloves...
I'm still missing The (C) Box....

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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