Government flip flops / school closures

Icyseanfitz · 07-01-2021 12:20pm

Treppen wrote: »

Unions only need to stand back and watch the implosion.

Thats not good enough anymore, staff/students/families lives are being put in real risk here, if ever there was a bloody reason for the unions to exist its this

Icsics · 07-01-2021 12:24pm

ASTI members need to start emailing head office, CEC on Sat

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 12:29pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

But in our school PE is across the five days? As is religion.

You’re also suggesting students will welcome a religion or PE class in the middle of all this? If they’re going in, they’re going in to maximise their time in school. Absolutely worthless sending them out to do PE and light candles in the prayer room (no disrespect).

PE five days a week for Leaving Certs???

Or do you mean for the whole school?

Students might come to school but they do welcome the break that PE and to a lesser extent religion brings. Do remember they have nothing to do at the moment. There’s no sports they can attend. Having a double class of PE won’t make or break the Leaving Cert.

I would say most schools only offer a double class of PE to their LCs. This day can be avoided by choosing from the other four days if necessary or desirable.

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 12:31pm

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I have to say, I'd prefer block classes or I'll be in all day for the 3 days, with bad wifi and a completely lacking set up compared to what I have at home for remote learning. I also have to use public transport both ways. If this is going ahead, at the very least, I would like my timetbale condensed as much as possible.

Sometimes it’s better to stand back and let things fail so the problem is resolved properly.

Moody_mona · 07-01-2021 12:31pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

PE five days a week for Leaving Certs???

Or do you mean for the whole school?

Students might come to school but they do welcome the break that PE and to a lesser extent religion brings. Do remember they have nothing to do at the moment. There’s no sports they can attend. Having a double class of PE won’t make or break the Leaving Cert.

I would say most schools only offer a double class of PE to their LCs. This day can be avoided by choosing from the other four days if necessary or desirable.

I'm sure the poster is the same. We have PE backed with Religion, and we have five class groups, so that's one every day.

Icyseanfitz · 07-01-2021 12:33pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Sometimes it’s better to stand back and let things fail so the problem is resolved properly.

Hasn't happened to date

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 12:38pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Hasn't happened to date

Teachers have been papering over the cracks for years. Maybe it’s time they stopped.

beveragelady · 07-01-2021 12:51pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Teachers have been papering over the cracks for years. Maybe it’s time they stopped.

The mistake we have been making for a long time is that we have been coping. We coped without year heads, we coped with poorly designed curricula, we coped with inadequate facilities, we kept turning up for work and we kept coping.
The problem is that you can struggle through almost anything in the sort term, but it means no solution is urgently required. "Sure you managed all last year, can you not manage again this year?"

Treppen · 07-01-2021 12:52pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Thats not good enough anymore, staff/students/families lives are being put in real risk here, if ever there was a bloody reason for the unions to exist its this

I'd bet my life on only a hand full of 6th years will be in next week.

Special schools need looking at though. If you recall the last lockdown the DES were getting it in the neck for not considering special schools. Now when they declare them open it's the same level of ire.

am_zarathustra · 07-01-2021 12:55pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Sometimes it’s better to stand back and let things fail so the problem is resolved properly.

Unless the Department cop on, or the Unions kick off, or the student and parents more likely then I'll be in next week, it's my job. I'd rather it be set up in a way that at least minimises the stress and nonsense that will inevitably ensue.

The blocks would also make far more sense for practical subjects, the focus will have to be on project work etc. One of my subjects lends itself well to online learning, one doesn't. I know I'd be pushing for that subject to get more time.

But this is stupid, really stupid and contrary to all medical advice

Icyseanfitz · 07-01-2021 12:56pm

Treppen wrote: »

I'd bet my life on only a hand full of 6th years will be in next week.

Special schools need looking at though. If you recall the last lockdown the DES were getting it in the neck for not considering special schools. Now when they declare them open it's the same level of ire.

I doubt a lot of 6th years will turn up, problem is all the staff that will have to turn up different counties and localities

Rosita · 07-01-2021 1:00pm

Treppen wrote: »

I'd bet my life on only a hand full of 6th years will be in next week.

Special schools need looking at though. If you recall the last lockdown the DES were getting it in the neck for not considering special schools. Now when they declare them open it's the same level of ire.

That may be true, but when schools closed in March we had 43 Covid cases the previous day. Yesterday we had 7,800 odd and the more transmissible virus variant in play. Very different ballgame. Part of the problem here is the government trying to apply harshly learned lessons (keep schools open at all costs, keep a particular eye on the LC as that could explode down the road, special needs neglect brings particular criticism etc.) to a problem which has changed dramatically in recent weeks in both nature and scale.

Bobtheman · 07-01-2021 1:00pm

Childcare for teachers will be a big issue. Lots of teachers might only have childcare arrangements in the afternoon. They might have arrangements with local women that are no longer viable. Or with relatives.
Once again the failure of the state to develop state childcare has come back to haunt them.
Even though I felt she was a bit too much right on - the last minister for children did start putting more resources into it. She was of course not FG. Their women seemingly mind their children in set pieces from the 1970s!!

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 1:02pm

Treppen wrote: »

I'd bet my life on only a hand full of 6th years will be in next week.

Special schools need looking at though. If you recall the last lockdown the DES were getting it in the neck for not considering special schools. Now when they declare them open it's the same level of ire.

For the first time in a long time teachers have the support of the public (more or less). We already know that if we refuse to go into work there will be a vocal element on social media and in some parts of the national media who will vilify us, saying we are lazy and don't want to work and don't we already have 37 months a year off. :rolleyes:

If students refuse to come to school / parents refuse to send them in, will the government have much choice in keeping schools open or revert to 100% online teaching? Online teaching brings it's own problems, but it's clear at this stage that there is massive difference in the student who does not have access and the student that just can't be arsed.

Aside from a few inadequate guidelines the DES have not provided any clear plan for online teaching, or resources or a Plan B of any shape. Maybe we should let them take the fall for the mess they have created. They've had a year to put a plan in place. Schools overall have done their best to be ready to go if online teaching came back into play. But yesterday we are told 'oh we don't want you to do that, we now want you to do both at the same time'. Let them provide the resources to do just that then.

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 1:07pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Childcare for teachers will be a big issue. Lots of teachers might only have childcare arrangements in the afternoon. They might have arrangements with local women that are no longer viable. Or with relatives.
Once again the failure of the state to develop state childcare has come back to haunt them.
Even though I felt she was a bit too much right on - the last minister for children did start putting more resources into it. She was of course not FG. Their women seemingly mind their children in set pieces from the 1970s!!

Yep, health issues aside this is one of the biggest hurdles to this plan and it wasn't even acknowledged. If a significant number of teachers ring in sick next week because they don't have anyone to mind their kids, they won't be in school teaching their classes. How far does a school have to go before they say, actually we need to move the whole thing online because loads of our staff can't attend?

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 1:11pm

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Unless the Department cop on, or the Unions kick off, or the student and parents more likely then I'll be in next week, it's my job. I'd rather it be set up in a way that at least minimises the stress and nonsense that will inevitably ensue.

The blocks would also make far more sense for practical subjects, the focus will have to be on project work etc. One of my subjects lends itself well to online learning, one doesn't. I know I'd be pushing for that subject to get more time.

But this is stupid, really stupid and contrary to all medical advice

Isn't that just papering over the cracks though? You could go in next week teach your classes as required, try to teach your other classes online. If the wifi doesn't work send an email to your principal and outline the problems. Let the principal send that up the chain. Document the lot. Send a copy to your local area rep and your TD. You are trying to do what is required but it doesn't work.

Leftwaffe · 07-01-2021 1:13pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

PE five days a week for Leaving Certs???

Or do you mean for the whole school?

Students might come to school but they do welcome the break that PE and to a lesser extent religion brings. Do remember they have nothing to do at the moment. There’s no sports they can attend. Having a double class of PE won’t make or break the Leaving Cert.

I would say most schools only offer a double class of PE to their LCs. This day can be avoided by choosing from the other four days if necessary or desirable.

We have six leaving cert classes. PE is not on the same day for everyone as you well know. It is spread out over the five days. Different classes have PE at different times. Religion very similar.

The timetable will have to be amended if we want to maximise contact time. Other wise it will be a five day regular week for teachers. Some class groups will be saddled with RE and PE for a couple of days when others are getting English and maths. You could rota is but how long is it going to go on.

I fully understand the benefits of PE and RE, I’m an RE tescher myself but if we are bringing students in and not maximising the benefits of face to face time then we are really defeating the purpose of this and failing the grasp the seriousness of the situation.

Not being smart at all, just my opinion.

Treppen · 07-01-2021 1:15pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

For the first time in a long time teachers have the support of the public (more or less). We already know that if we refuse to go into work there will be a vocal element on social media and in some parts of the national media who will vilify us, saying we are lazy and don't want to work and don't we already have 37 months a year off. :rolleyes:

If students refuse to come to school / parents refuse to send them in, will the government have much choice in keeping schools open or revert to 100% online teaching? Online teaching brings it's own problems, but it's clear at this stage that there is massive difference in the student who does not have access and the student that just can't be arsed.

Aside from a few inadequate guidelines the DES have not provided any clear plan for online teaching, or resources or a Plan B of any shape. Maybe we should let them take the fall for the mess they have created. They've had a year to put a plan in place. Schools overall have done their best to be ready to go if online teaching came back into play. But yesterday we are told 'oh we don't want you to do that, we now want you to do both at the same time'. Let them provide the resources to do just that then.

I think that the government are hoping that 100% online teaching wont be spoken about. They'll muddle through with a mix of in-school and local-arrangements online for a few weeks. Whether or not students turn up will be a stats numbers game, and they're good at fudging that.

For the leaving cert it'll be a case of "well we've listened carefully to the baying mob of students and taken their concerns on-board" ...so predictive grades and/or written exams option it's gonna be !!!

FishOnABike · 07-01-2021 1:17pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Students staying away from schools next week is probably the easiest but most powerful response to all of this.

I can see this being a big factor. Roughly 15% of my daughter's sixth year have contracted CoViD over the last two weeks.

With track and trace system not functioning properly - close contacts only being referred for testing if symptomatic, it is obvious that there is ongoing risk of asymptomatic spread in the community. Until track and trace is functional again and the number of new cases drops I wouldn't be happy with schools reopening.

I'm already aware of a number of pupils who will not be going / parents who will not be sending their children to school next week.

Bobtheman · 07-01-2021 1:17pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yep, health issues aside this is one of the biggest hurdles to this plan and it wasn't even acknowledged. If a significant number of teachers ring in sick next week because they don't have anyone to mind their kids, they won't be in school teaching their classes. How far does a school have to go before they say, actually we need to move the whole thing online because loads of our staff can't attend?

People should be aware you are entitled to force majure leave of at least five days. When a relative etc needs care.

Bobtheman · 07-01-2021 1:18pm

The way to have done this would be to call all the education partners in today and discuss arrangements. Viability etc

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 1:23pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

We have six leaving cert classes. PE is not on the same day for everyone as you well know. It is spread out over the five days. Different classes have PE at different times. Religion very similar.

No need to be snarky, I work in a smaller school.

If the schools wanted they could unofficially designate PE/religion classes as study classes/allow students get project work done. There's a way around everything.

Students are still on a 5 day timetable don't forget, so they won't for the most part be losing out on English or Maths or whatever. They will still have two days of online tuition.

rainbowtrout · 07-01-2021 1:24pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

People should be aware you are entitled to force majure leave of at least five days. When a relative etc needs care.

That will run out fine and fast if this is going on until the end of January, and it leaves classes without a teacher. Maybe that's what needs to happen.

The Wordress · 07-01-2021 1:29pm

I contacted the INTO with my concerns around the SEN classes reopening.

They want emails with our concerns so please send your emails as soon as you can.

Strength in numbers and all that.

Don't want to put email address here, it's on their site.

Leftwaffe · 07-01-2021 1:32pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No need to be snarky, I work in a smaller school.

If the schools wanted they could unofficially designate PE/religion classes as study classes/allow students get project work done. There's a way around everything.

Students are still on a 5 day timetable don't forget, so they won't for the most part be losing out on English or Maths or whatever. They will still have two days of online tuition.

Apologies I wasn’t trying to be snarky, I thought you would have known that.

I understand what you are saying, there are workarounds for everything. 2 working days notice is not a lot though. Either way I will find out my fate today sometime. Can properly plan then.

TheValeyard · 07-01-2021 1:38pm

I really think the government spent the last two days deciding what was the most ridiculous plan they could come up with

Icyseanfitz · 07-01-2021 1:46pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

I really think the government spent the last two days deciding what was the most ridiculous plan they could come up with

Knowing full well they wouldn't have to make it work, no wonder Norma was smirking in the presser yesterday

Rosita · 07-01-2021 1:59pm

PE is an LC examination subject in some schools.

Leftwaffe · 07-01-2021 2:12pm

Rosita wrote: »

PE is an LC examination subject in some schools.

Indeed it is. It not in the vast, vast majority of schools. I think the same could be said for religion.

km79 · 07-01-2021 2:13pm

Not a bit of contact from the asti yet
Shocking

Government flip flops / school closures

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