Government flip flops / school closures

Leftwaffe

Heard nothing from the ASTI yet.

mirrorwall14

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The TUI have just circulated an email to branches. Its asking members to lobby their TDs.
There is a draft email to copy and all the contacts are available also.
The branch should be forwarding them out to members.

I’m TUI. Our branch secretary is horrendously slow at forwarding things. Could you PM me it so I can forward to staff? Thanks

Smacruairi

hamburgham wrote: »

CSO report 18/12/20

10, that is TEN people have died in the 25-64 age group with no underlying conditions. That is a minimal risk.

Age group 25-64
Deaths 131
Underlying conditions 121
No underlying conditions 10
All minuscule figures.

There were 149 deaths as a result of road crashes in 2020. How many deaths would there have to be before you would consider it too risky to drive?

Pathetic doesn’t describe the reaction here.

We only describe things in terms of deaths now? Since when?

Where are your stats on long term covid effects? Look at your death toll on Sweden which allowed covid to tear through the Country before they relented to locking down.

Too risky to drive? Good thing we have nct, speed limits, drivers licence, checkpoints.....

Rosita

hamburgham wrote: »

How many deaths would there have to be before you would consider it too risky to drive?

Put it another and more relevant way - if everyone else in the country was told that they shouldn't drive because the roads were too dangerous I'd probably assume the same advice applied to me. That's all that's being looked for here.

Consuelano

What’s happening right now is sneaky politics. The current government nailed their colours to the mast when they promised that schools would remain open under their governance. They explicitly hitched the success of their government on their ability to keep the schools open throughout the pandemic.

Today we have close to 8,000 cases, which just accounts for symptomatic cases – close contacts aren’t currently being tested. By all accounts, the real numbers are much higher. NPHET have been very clear about the system’s inability to currently provide contact tracing in workplaces (like schools).

With the virus running totally rampant, it is entirely unconscionable to open the schools to anybody. The government knows this, and have known which way the wind is blowing for a while now. The lack of recruitment for examiners for orals and practicals is proof of this.

However, the government needs to figure out a way to spin this, because to not open would be an absolute, abject failure on their part.

They did not consult with the stakeholders or the CMO in this decision, which is in essence them throwing the ball into the union’s court.

In a week’s time, schools will be closed completely – not because of the government – but because of the pesky, lazy teachers’ unions who don’t care about the kids and just want more time off. The subsequent teacher-bashing then serves as the predicted distraction and the government gets away with it.

Sneaky politics at its finest.

Smacruairi

Consuelano wrote: »

Sneaky politics at its finest.

Not really, everyone and their dog can see the plan. They've just exposed the fact that they're willing to play politics with people's health. They've managed to do the impossible, actually have the public side with teachers for once.

lawred2

Smacruairi wrote: »

Not really, everyone and their dog can see the plan. They've just exposed the fact that they're willing to play politics with people's health. They've managed to do the impossible, actually have the public side with teachers for once.

There are no sides.

Everyone is screwed.

I've got three kids at home with me now for the foreseeable and a wife who can't not work as she treats cancer patients.

And I have the joy of having to work while I'm at it.

Our only hope is trusting that this latest generation of incompetent FF politicians can along with the dysfunctional HSE actually deliver a timely vaccination rollout.

My optimism levels are low.

TheValeyard

Every VP in the country right now trying to figure out timetabling.

Rosita

hamburgham wrote: »

Well this is a reaction to a supposedly deadly virus so yes, I would consider deaths to be the most relevant metric. Should we count those with a runny nose?

/QUOTE]


Absolute nonsense. All decisions regarding restrictions are being taken on the basis of the number of confirmed Covid cases, not on the basis of number of deaths or runny noses. You are entitled to an opinion but not one which decides an alternative most relevant metric to suit an argument.

joebloggs32

hamburgham wrote: »

CSO report 18/12/20

10, that is TEN people have died in the 25-64 age group with no underlying conditions. That is a minimal risk.

Age group 25-64
Deaths 131
Underlying conditions 121
No underlying conditions 10
All minuscule figures.

There were 149 deaths as a result of road crashes in 2020. How many deaths would there have to be before you would consider it too risky to drive?

Pathetic doesn’t describe the reaction here.

Im in my 40s.
Have high blood pressure (family history).
Run 5k 3 or 4 times per week, but i fit in that underlying conditions category.

I dont fancy rolling the dice with covid when i can teach remotely

Rosita

hamburgham wrote: »

. Looking at the CSO figures, surely you can see that the risk is minimal.

/QUOTE]

More nonsense. You quote a report dated 18 Dec. On that date there had been a grand total of 77,672 cases of Covid, ever, in Ireland since it began.

Today alone there was 7,836 reported - more than 10% of the entire total of what stood at the date you are citing to support an increasingly staggering argument. And this is in an environment where they are more or less ignoring close contacts. If you are going to talk about minimal risk you need to base it on something more substantial than a report that paints a picture of a very different place three weeks ago.

babybuilder

hamburgham wrote: »

Yes and a lot of them are on PUP, would you like that too? Let’s be honest, remote teaching is a joke.
You’re also supposed to be educated. Looking at the CSO figures, surely you can see that the risk is minimal.
You do an important job , especially where the Leaving students are concerned . This carry on is doing you no favours.

This carry on? A pandemic in full flow and you trivialize healthy and safety of workers and their families. Are you a teacher? Remote teaching is a challenge and is not a joke. Millions of students across Europe and around the world are engaged in remote learning. I wonder why?

Rosita

[QUOTE=hamburgham;11583177

I’m taking it that you’re a teacher so you might use your critical faculties [/QUOTE]

Interesting implication that a non-teacher would not have critical faculties. Freudian even.

Wombatman

hamburgham wrote: »

CSO report 18/12/20

10, that is TEN people have died in the 25-64 age group with no underlying conditions. That is a minimal risk.

Age group 25-64
Deaths 131
Underlying conditions 121
No underlying conditions 10
All minuscule figures.

There were 149 deaths as a result of road crashes in 2020. How many deaths would there have to be before you would consider it too risky to drive?

Pathetic doesn’t describe the reaction here.

In the main it's not about the students dying, its about them transmitting. They come in, mix in close quarters with others, and then go home. Do the math.

By the way, not everyone in the class\school is a teenager.

Students do school work, teachers teach, then you have managers, maintenance and administrators. Schools are a workplace, poorly suited to spread reduction. This would not be allowed in any other workplace.

acequion

hamburgham wrote: »

Rosita wrote: »

I’m taking it that you’re a teacher so you might use your critical faculties to consider for yourself what the most relevant metric is during a deadly pandemic.

I’ve a Christmas tree to take down so I’m done now but you might reflect on why respect for teachers is ebbing away by the day.

I had a Christmas tree to take down too. And I got it down this evening as a way to channel my anxieties.

I won't even dignify your contemptuous remarks about respect for teachers. But the fact that you even came on here this evening basically sneering at the very legitimate fears of a group of workers who basically don't want to risk their health for their job, speaks volumes. And certainly not a stance worthy of any respect.

linguist

Sorry, if I might butt in to ask the mods: why am I seeing colleagues being harassed by a teacher-basher in here? There's a good tradition that this is a constructive forum primarily for educators. These people have no shortage of places to go. Please restore the usual decorum.

Bananaleaf

hamburgham wrote: »

CSO report 18/12/20

10, that is TEN people have died in the 25-64 age group with no underlying conditions. That is a minimal risk.

Age group 25-64
Deaths 131
Underlying conditions 121
No underlying conditions 10
All minuscule figures.

There were 149 deaths as a result of road crashes in 2020. How many deaths would there have to be before you would consider it too risky to drive?

Pathetic doesn’t describe the reaction here.

So minimal risk to themselves.

Is that not the very mindset that has us where we are right now?

Bobtheman

Very few 6th years will come in. Disaster.

lulublue22

Bobtheman wrote: »

Very few 6th years will come in. Disaster.

Got to love the fire of youth though ðŸ˜

km79

They are trying to organise a strike !

rainbowtrout

hamburgham wrote: »

CSO report 18/12/20

10, that is TEN people have died in the 25-64 age group with no underlying conditions. That is a minimal risk.

Age group 25-64
Deaths 131
Underlying conditions 121
No underlying conditions 10
All minuscule figures.

There were 149 deaths as a result of road crashes in 2020. How many deaths would there have to be before you would consider it too risky to drive?

Pathetic doesn’t describe the reaction here.

Car crashes, like trampolining are not contagious.

acequion

km79 wrote: »

They are trying to organise a strike !

Who? And where are you seeing that? I'll take heart at any bit of activism.

Random sample

km79 wrote: »

They are trying to organise a strike !

I hope principals will survey them before they start asking teachers to go in to teach them.

linguist

Have any colleagues considered taking their own medical advice? Surely it's warranted.

rainbowtrout

acequion wrote: »

Who? And where are you seeing that? I'll take heart at any bit of activism.

It's all over social media. Search for leaving cert strike on twitter.





https://twitter.com/ShaneoFar/status/1346930705062879233

rainbowtrout

Or this:


https://twitter.com/lazerbeam4u/status/1346873883555733507

French Toast

Evidently they don't want to cancel the LC this year.

Interesting.

gaiscioch

I'm happy in principle that LC students will be coming in, but the devil is in the detail. We don't know how space, etc is going to be arranged.

At a rational level, so much depends on each of those 18-19-year-old students not socialising and putting us at risk. What really boils my blood more than anything is that I had a confirmed Covid case in one of these 6th-year classes in November but nobody in the school was told about it. How dare the Irish state treat us like children by refusing to divulge such very relevant information.


I'd like the ASTI to put my €335 per year to use by ripping through this patronising treatment of teachers. This student does not, of course, appear in school cases on the statistics, even though he was in school each day. He got it from somebody at home so it's a "community" case not a "school case". How convenient for the "we must keep schools opem at all costs" lobby. There was also something about 48 hours having elapsed so he didn't have to be recorded on the school statistics. Long story short, be certain that this fiddling with statistics for schools is not isolated. Naturally, my trust in what the government is saying about the real situation in schools is low after this experience.

mirrorwall14

I posted to the coronavirus thread but I’ll post here too. It’s been a very uncomfortable evening tonight

I took a break tonight. Discovered the **** show that is America. Then dived into bridgerton to completely forget the absolute crap that is the world.

I love to teach. Love it. Love it. I do my best. I’m sure some students hate me and others love me. No one is universally successful but I do my absolute damndest and I work hard.

However over the last ten years I have been increasingly hurt and marginalised by society at large, the media and my Department of Education my bosses. Leaks and leaks, no consultation. Finding out about my job from the media, not even from the department. Circulars on a Friday evening. The disrespect goes on.

Teacher bashing is now a national pastime. It was always there in the background. As the daughter of two teachers and niece of more I knew that. So I suppose you could argue I knew what I was getting into. However it is so so much worse now. The media, the social media, it is constant. It is exhausting. It’s is horrible. And it’s practically bullying.

Everyone always says ‘oh I’m not talking about you’, ‘you are a good teacher’, ‘oh I KNOW it’s not you’.... BUT....

There’s always a but you see. Always a but. It goes on and on and round and round and round.

There are bad employees in EVERY profession. There are good employees in EVERY profession. There are good and bad employees in the public service. There are good and bad employees in private industry. It is difficult to fire anyone. Public or private. The bashing has to stop.

Tonight however. Tonight. Where do I even start. Today I am flabbergasted at my ultimate boss. At her, a fellow teacher, who has just hung her whole profession and all the ancillary school staff out to dry.

If schools don’t manage to open for LCs they will be vilified by parents and students who want to be in.
If schools do open they will be vilified by parents and students who are scared or at risk and do not want to attend.
If we go live with all classes (against the wishes of many of our students I might add) then we’ll be overloading the students
If we do not go live with all our classes we’ll be lazy.
If the unions let us in it will be ‘fair play to the government for sticking it to the unions’
If the unions protect us then it will be ‘God damn unions’
The bitching goes on and on and on and it’s always our fault.

This is not a ****ing competition. This is not a competition. It is far, far more serious than that. It’s not a ‘whose job is less safe’. I’m sick of the comparisons. I’m sick of the ‘what about’

This is a pandemic. We have infection levels that are the worst in Europe. We are currently worse than the north. We have a new strain which is more infectious and spreading rapidly. When even Boris Johnson is closing schools and cancelling exams why in Gods name is my Boss decreeing and repeating over and over that it is ‘safe’ for the LCs and the staff to be in school.

I may give off about things. Like anyone I rant and get things off my chest. But usually I can at least see the logic. Even if I fundamentally disagree with it and fight it.

Tonight though.... Tonight I truly feel that my government has absolutely no respect for education. At all. And not just teachers. I’m talking about us all. Parents, teachers, students, SNA’s, caretakers, secretarys, bus drivers, the list goes on. They will all be back next week. To satisfy the political ‘promise’ that they would keep schools open. At all costs? That’s what it seems to have come to

I am worried for my colleagues, teachers and all the ancillary staff from bus drivers to secretary’s. I am worried for my students. I am worried for their families and what may spread silently in classrooms with just cloth masks. I am worried for our country. I am worried about our health services. Our front line workers dealing with the potential hidden spread that will continue. In schools without adequate testing. Without adequate contact tracing.

And without actual advice from NPHET or the CMO that this is actually a safe proposal.

What if it doesn’t work?

Well unfortunately based on my last ten years, there are many who will blame the teachers. Again.

babybuilder

French Toast wrote: »

Evidently they don't want to cancel the LC this year.

Interesting.

Must know more than the experts in UK who have cancelled all state exams.

I see that teaching unions have already raised white flag to this imposition. Something about not being able to issue directive not to cooperate with edict without balloting members. You couldn't make it up.