Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

aziz · 31-12-2020 10:58PM

Remember last March “ just two weeks “

Itssoeasy · 31-12-2020 11:02PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres going to be a major standoff when we get vulnerable and frontliners vacciiinated , then the discussion on restrictions will be good to see

Let’s get to that point first.

Irish Steve · 31-12-2020 11:13PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

theres going to be a major standoff when we get vulnerable and frontliners vacciiinated , then the discussion on restrictions will be good to see

The discussions will be premature at that point, there's at least 3 weeks after the second dose before it's effective, and with the nonsense that's going on now, I will be surprised to see even the highest risk categories vaccinated before the end of February, so that's March blown, and then there's a lot of "at risk" people in the lower stages that need to be considered, and with the number of cases there are right now, recovery back to sensible daily numbers is going to take a lot longer than was originally anticipated.

This evening, the press conference was effectively an admission that they've lost control of the virus, and the support and reporting system that were supposed to give them the details of what's happening have all spectacularly collapsed, so now, they're effectively flying blind, things like reopening any sort of hospitality, let alone wet pubs is now so far off their radar, there's no point even asking them about it, they don't have a clue any more.

John O.Groats · 31-12-2020 11:34PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

The discussions will be premature at that point, there's at least 3 weeks after the second dose before it's effective, and with the nonsense that's going on now, I will be surprised to see even the highest risk categories vaccinated before the end of February, so that's March blown, and then there's a lot of "at risk" people in the lower stages that need to be considered, and with the number of cases there are right now, recovery back to sensible daily numbers is going to take a lot longer than was originally anticipated.

This evening, the press conference was effectively an admission that they've lost control of the virus, and the support and reporting system that were supposed to give them the details of what's happening have all spectacularly collapsed, so now, they're effectively flying blind, things like reopening any sort of hospitality, let alone wet pubs is now so far off their radar, there's no point even asking them about it, they don't have a clue any more.

Right so any type of pubs/restaurants/etc. are unlikely to reopen before next summer then.

Tucker tunsel · 31-12-2020 11:40PM

I personally can't see wet pubs opening till the very earliest November 2021

At all costs the wet pubs will continue to be pushed out and out for.some reason

Makes little sense especially in rural areas as having a hotel opened which is jammed to the rafters makes little sense,why not spread the crowds out. To open a bar and restaurant and shut 2 pubs in the same town will only push everyone into the same location.

Tazz T · 01-01-2021 02:12PM

kippy wrote: »

Why would they do that if they didn't have to?

Because they won't want to be seen as wrong.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-01-2021 03:28PM

Most of the predictions about when pubs will open, seem to be masochistic and creating a victimhood narrative around anyone who enjoys the pub.

I won’t make any predictions because I don’t have the information to make a prediction. Truth is that the government will need to see how the vaccine programme works, how the numbers react and how hospitalisations and deaths change over time as more vulnerable people are vaccinated.

We know pubs are not a high priority for reopening. It’s not a puritan conspiracy against alcohol (some posters actually said they think it is), it’s just based on the fact that pubs are a good place to spread the virus. No point being surprised every time pubs are seen as a non essential business which is quick to be closed and slow to be reopened.

Hopefully the vaccine is effective and the rollout is efficient.

beggars_bush · 01-01-2021 11:08PM

How many of ye were caught in that Shebeen in Kildare?

weldoninhio · 02-01-2021 08:44AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes you do. People generally spend much longer in pubs than coffee shops. That’s only in dispute for the sake of this discussion, not in real life.

Pubs are better places to spread the virus. Mostly because of the behaviour change that occurs as people get drunk.

You know these two things, but to make your point you need to pretend not to understand them. Don’t worry too much, you’re not alone in pretending not to understand the issue in order to make the points. Lots of posters are doing likewise.

If you acknowledged the reality it would make your point look silly, which it is.

Some people spend their Saturday nights in coffee shops. I’ve worked with numerous foreign doctors who would meet with friends early on a Saturday night in a coffee shop and stay til the early hours chatting away.

weldoninhio · 02-01-2021 08:46AM

kippy wrote: »

Why would they do that if they didn't have to?

Have you heard of the HSE??

St.Spodo · 02-01-2021 11:33AM

Looking at the projections for how the new variant might spread if it became the dominant strain in Ireland, it appears that level 3 may not be tenable for any length of time until we start to see the benefit of vaccinations. I suspect therefore that pubs and restaurants will be closed for the next 3 months.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-01-2021 11:34AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Some people spend their Saturday nights in coffee shops. I’ve worked with numerous foreign doctors who would meet with friends early on a Saturday night in a coffee shop and stay til the early hours chatting away.

Is so people generally spend the same or similar time in coffee shops as pubs?

I even voided the word generally in the post you quoted, and you answered with a specific example of a one specific unusual group of people you know.

I get that it’s a difficult question to actually answer directly (even though the answer is obvious) because answering it directly and honestly would put an end to the argument that cafes and pubs should be treated the same under covid rules.

cityboyjim · 02-01-2021 12:17PM

Ok So I own a coffee shop and a bunch comes in and buys even two cups each and takes a table for hours .Whats pays the rent and light and the bloody heat .I would need to be charging a tenner a cup .

hynesie08 · 02-01-2021 12:25PM

cityboyjim wrote: »

Ok So I own a coffee shop and a bunch comes in and buys even two cups each and takes a table for hours .Whats pays the rent and light and the bloody heat .I would need to be charging a tenner a cup .

Ask starbucks/costa/insomnia how they make it work, there's a reason why they have couches, WiFi and sockets, so obviously their business model is based on spending time there.

cityboyjim · 02-01-2021 12:36PM

Havent seen many of those in rural villages I pass through .

El_Duderino 09 · 02-01-2021 12:54PM

Yeah but let’s not lose sight of how this discussion off spending time in coffee shops, arose. Some posters wanted to make an argument that pubs and coffee shops should be treated the same way and if pubs are closed then coffee shops should be closed and vice versa. So they come up with an argument that people spend loads of time in coffee shops.

I’ve asked a few times if people generally spend as long in pubs and coffee shops and some posters have replied with specific examples of individuals who spend time in coffee shops.

Under normal circumstances nobody would argue that people generally spend similar time in coffee shops and pubs. But that’s what this discussion does to people. They end up having to make spurious arguments to make their case, and others will join in!

fin12 · 02-01-2021 01:11PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but let’s not lose sight of how this discussion off spending time in coffee shops, arose. Some posters wanted to make an argument that pubs and coffee shops should be treated the same way and if pubs are closed then coffee shops should be closed and vice versa. So they come up with an argument that people spend loads of time in coffee shops.

I’ve asked a few times if people generally spend as long in pubs and coffee shops and some posters have replied with specific examples of individuals who spend time in coffee shops.

Under normal circumstances nobody would argue that people generally spend similar time in coffee shops and pubs. But that’s what this discussion does to people. They end up having to make spurious arguments to make their case, and others will join in!

It doesn’t matter how many hours u spend in a pub or coffee shop because u only have to be in the company of someone who is infected for 15 minutes To get the virus so u can become infected just as easily in both.

HBC08 · 02-01-2021 01:52PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What should they have done?

You’re the VFI and the government tells you that they don’t consider the pubs an essential business. They are high on the list of business to close and low on the list of business to reopen. What would you do better than the VFI?

I would not have suggested closing the off licences as long as pubs were closed.I never had any respect for Vintner groups but they really proved how useless,outdated and inept they are,faux concern wrapped up in spite.
They should have been lobbying for proper supports for their sector and had a coherent message.If I ran a pub I wouldn't be paying a subscription to any of these groups if and when things open up.

Bass Reeves · 02-01-2021 03:03PM

fin12 wrote: »

It doesn’t matter how many hours u spend in a pub or coffee shop because u only have to be in the company of someone who is infected for 15 minutes To get the virus so u can become infected just as easily in both.

Sometimes I wonder when people were born did they miss there intelligence quota. Getting infected has nothing to do with how long you are in someone's company. Government and the HSE has to set criteria for close contacts. This is that someone is within two meters of an infected individual for longer than 15 minutes inside or outside. This is purely a definition you may or may not get infected. It purely a criteria for testing and for people to isolate.

After that they risk access different social settings. There assessment indicates to them that pubs and restaurants are high risk environment where people let there guards down. People are much more likely to do something that will transmit the virus. They are more likely to be in a situation where it is picked up and spread. We were told from the start of the opening to try to maintain as low as possible a number of contacts. Guess what some people did not.

It fairly easy to spot the cause of the surge. Before December we were down at about 400cases per day. Schooled and essential businesses were open. Before December and we reduced the level from near 1k/day to 400/day. Now we are above 2k/day.
Lockdowns are to care for the idiot factor. In other words it reduces the ability of idiots to act the idiot.

We all can see clearly that pubs and restaurants that did not completely abide by the rules, people who entered these premises that did not abey the rules. Shops that were told pre Christmas not to have sales and on St Stephens day what did they do Guess what they acted the idiot and the people going to these sales were....ya you guessed it idiots.

Lockdowns are because we have too many idiots we cannot factor for these idiots we we have to have really stringent rules that are ......idiot proof.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-01-2021 03:39PM

fin12 wrote: »

It doesn’t matter how many hours u spend in a pub or coffee shop because u only have to be in the company of someone who is infected for 15 minutes To get the virus so u can become infected just as easily in both.

But far more likely in one because people commonly spend hours, or half a day, in one and not the other.

There’s also the behaviour change caused by alcohol. But we all know this. It’s only in dispute for the sake of this specific argument. Nobody would make the argument that people generally spend the same time in coffee shops and pubs. It’s just made up for this specific argument.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-01-2021 03:45PM

HBC08 wrote: »

I would not have suggested closing the off licences as long as pubs were closed.I never had any respect for Vintner groups but they really proved how useless,outdated and inept they are,faux concern wrapped up in spite.
They should have been lobbying for proper supports for their sector and had a coherent message.If I ran a pub I wouldn't be paying a subscription to any of these groups if and when things open up.

I’d agree they should lobby for support for their members but I’m not sure there should be a pub-specific bailout and not bailouts for other businesses.

Should there be specific bailouts for each business type? I agree with supporting businesses through this period and I acknowledge that some business will fail as a result of this disruption to trading.

I also acknowledge that the bailouts are all funded with borrowed money and we’ll all be paying tax to pay off this debt for the rest of our working lives. But I still think it’s worth doing.

02-01-2021 04:01PM

I know this is a pub thread but I miss sitting in coffee shops. I'd have my laptop with me to do a bit of work and some people watching. Or even just to go in to for a few minutes in the middle of a busy day. I'm hopeful that will return.

PTH2009 · 02-01-2021 04:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I know this is a pub thread but I miss sitting in coffee shops. I'd have my laptop with me to do a bit of work and some people watching. Or even just to go in to for a few minutes in the middle of a busy day. I'm hopeful that will return.

Not aimed as you

People watching is just a fancy term for nosy bollocks

:D

02-01-2021 04:09PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Not aimed as you

People watching is just a fancy term for nosy bollocks :D

Well as it happens I am nosey! Or as I prefer to call myself 'curious'.

bucketybuck · 02-01-2021 05:51PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder when people were born did they miss there intelligence quota.

*Their

Aongus Von Bismarck · 02-01-2021 06:13PM

Extremely sobering figures coming out of Ireland tonight. I presume even the most foolhardy 'open the pubs' bore must now admit that was a supremely stupid and self-centred thing to be advocating for back in November and December? Lads getting maudlin about some fat man pouring them a pint of plain in the local while they watch Fulham vs Doncaster Rovers in the FA Cup.

The decision to open hospitality at all was a serious error of judgement, and the figures would have been even worse if we had allowed Vinny Vinter to open his doors to every sort of soak, lush, and rummy.

TheValeyard · 02-01-2021 06:14PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Extremely sobering figures coming out of Ireland tonight. I presume even the most foolhardy 'open the pubs' bore must now admit that was a supremely stupid and self-centred thing to be advocating for back in November and December? Lads getting maudlin about some fat man pouring them a pint of plain in the local while they watch Fulham vs Doncaster Rovers in the FA Cup.

The decision to open hospitality at all was a serious error of judgement, and the figures would have been even worse if we had allowed Vinny Vinter to open his doors to every sort of soak, lush, and rummy.

This maybe the most honest post you've ever had on here.

TheValeyard · 02-01-2021 06:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well as it happens I am nosey! Or as I prefer to call myself 'curious'.

For science......

PTH2009 · 02-01-2021 07:03PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Extremely sobering figures coming out of Ireland tonight. I presume even the most foolhardy 'open the pubs' bore must now admit that was a supremely stupid and self-centred thing to be advocating for back in November and December? Lads getting maudlin about some fat man pouring them a pint of plain in the local while they watch Fulham vs Doncaster Rovers in the FA Cup.

The decision to open hospitality at all was a serious error of judgement, and the figures would have been even worse if we had allowed Vinny Vinter to open his doors to every sort of soak, lush, and rummy.

So Hospitality is still getting the blame ?

pjohnson · 02-01-2021 07:05PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Extremely sobering figures coming out of Ireland tonight. I presume even the most foolhardy 'open the pubs' bore must now admit that was a supremely stupid and self-centred thing to be advocating for back in November and December? Lads getting maudlin about some fat man pouring them a pint of plain in the local while they watch Fulham vs Doncaster Rovers in the FA Cup.

The decision to open hospitality at all was a serious error of judgement, and the figures would have been even worse if we had allowed Vinny Vinter to open his doors to every sort of soak, lush, and rummy.

Nah they'll still bleat about saving the pubs (while drinking in some scuzzy shebeen)

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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